Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Reporting a problem  (Read 3807 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

meshuggah42

  • Salvager
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 60
  • Respect: +6
    • View Profile
Reporting a problem
« on: October 09, 2011, 04:16:57 pm »
0

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201110/09/game-20111009-131407-f2b3e120.html

On my 9th turn (and some other turns as well) I play Young Witch with Secret Chamber being the bane card. My opponent reveals it, uses its ability, but still gains the curse. Is this really how it is? Because I don't think so.
Logged

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4381
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: Reporting a problem
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2011, 04:24:30 pm »
0

Your opponent used it for its reaction ability, not to block the YW. There are separate times to reveal it for the different things.

meshuggah42

  • Salvager
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 60
  • Respect: +6
    • View Profile
Re: Reporting a problem
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2011, 04:45:34 pm »
0

But the thing is, you don't have to discard it when you use its ability, you can reveal it as many times as you want. So you're saying my opponent was just stupid? He did it repeatedly.
Logged

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4381
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: Reporting a problem
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2011, 04:51:21 pm »
0

But the thing is, you don't have to discard it when you use its ability, you can reveal it as many times as you want. So you're saying my opponent was just stupid? He did it repeatedly.
Probably he wasn't stupid so much as he wasn't familiar with the isotropic interface. If you aren't paying attention, it's not totally obvious when you need to reveal it for what function, especially since you often get the option to reveal multiple times say with moat where revealing the second time doesn't do anything. Here it does.

meshuggah42

  • Salvager
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 60
  • Respect: +6
    • View Profile
Re: Reporting a problem
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2011, 05:08:47 pm »
0

Once you reveal it to use the ability, you revealed it, therefore you revealed a bane card, so logic dictates you automatically don't get the curse . But since you revealed it, you must use the ability too as said on the card.
Logged

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4381
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: Reporting a problem
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2011, 05:14:33 pm »
0

Actually, no. When they play the attack, you can use secret chamber's ability (which triggers when they PLAY an attack). It's only after YW has been played that its own effects happen, including the ability for your opponent to moat it with the bane.

meshuggah42

  • Salvager
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 60
  • Respect: +6
    • View Profile
Re: Reporting a problem
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2011, 05:19:30 pm »
0

That makes sense, thanks for the clarification.

So the method is: I play YW, he gets the option to reveal SC (for the ability), then gets another option to reveal it again after YW's effects are resolved to moat the curse. Do I have this right? :)
Logged

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4381
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: Reporting a problem
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2011, 05:24:12 pm »
0

IIRC, yes.

meshuggah42

  • Salvager
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 60
  • Respect: +6
    • View Profile
Re: Reporting a problem
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2011, 05:27:16 pm »
0

Good. Thanks again. :)
Logged

Deadlock39

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1722
  • Respect: +1757
    • View Profile
Re: Reporting a problem
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2011, 11:26:24 am »
0

Wouldn't this ordering still potentially cause an issue?   Is it possible to reveal the SC to block the Curse first, so I can then reveal it again, trigger it's ability, and return the SC to the top of my deck for next turn?  (Are there any other reactions where this order would matter?  Horse Traders would, but it is too expensive to be the Bane.

Also, a interesting rules question based on the earlier conversation:
Disregarding the isotropic digital interface, in a RL game, is it legal to reveal the SC (or other Reaction/Bane card) and trigger the reaction ability, but still take the Curse from YW?  In this situation you did reveal the bane card, even if your intention was to not block the Curse.  Does anyone with access to the Cornucopia rules know if the wording would allow this?

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4381
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: Reporting a problem
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2011, 12:08:42 pm »
0

Wouldn't this ordering still potentially cause an issue?   Is it possible to reveal the SC to block the Curse first, so I can then reveal it again, trigger it's ability, and return the SC to the top of my deck for next turn?  (Are there any other reactions where this order would matter?  Horse Traders would, but it is too expensive to be the Bane.
No. You can't reveal the SC to block the curse first, because, as I explained above, the reaction ability of SC reacts to them playing an attack. That's the only time you can use SC's reaction ability. And you can't use it as the bane yet then, because you can only do that once Young Witch's effects from being played get pushed through.

Quote
Also, a interesting rules question based on the earlier conversation:
Disregarding the isotropic digital interface, in a RL game, is it legal to reveal the SC (or other Reaction/Bane card) and trigger the reaction ability, but still take the Curse from YW?  In this situation you did reveal the bane card, even if your intention was to not block the Curse.  Does anyone with access to the Cornucopia rules know if the wording would allow this?
Yes, you can do that. Also, in general, isotropic has the rules spot-on.

Deadlock39

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1722
  • Respect: +1757
    • View Profile
Re: Reporting a problem
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2011, 12:17:11 pm »
0

Okay, that makes sense.  I did not read your post above where you pointed out the timing very carefully.  (Actually looking back, it seems I skimmed the entire second half of the thread.  Whoops.)

ftl

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2056
  • Shuffle iT Username: ftl
  • Respect: +1345
    • View Profile
Re: Reporting a problem
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2011, 06:56:58 pm »
0

That makes sense, thanks for the clarification.

So the method is: I play YW, he gets the option to reveal SC (for the ability), then gets another option to reveal it again after YW's effects are resolved to moat the curse. Do I have this right? :)

The interface for that has *got* to be horribly confusing. I've never encountered that particular combination of SC as bane. What I think it would do is ask you whether you want to reveal the SC, as it does for any attack. Then it would ask you again and again until you said no, because it's theoretically possible to reveal the same SC or multiple SCs for their reaction ability. And THEN it would ask you to reveal the SC as a bane card, and *this* time you'd have to say yes. So to reveal the SC for its ability and to use it as a bane, the sequence of answers to Isotropic prompts would be "yes, no, yes".

So yeah, I'd bet on the opponent being confused by the interface. If you're not 100% clear on both what the rules are and what the Isotropic prompts are, it's pretty easy to get mixed up.
Logged

danshep

  • Navigator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 70
  • Respect: +15
    • View Profile
Re: Reporting a problem
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2011, 08:25:29 pm »
0

I'd say the opponent probably wasn't confused by the interface they were probably doing:

Reveal secret chamber.
Draw 2 cards
Put secret chamber and another card back on top of the deck.

Then, when the young witch was doing it's thing, he no longer had secret chamber in hand to reveal as the bane.
Logged

Anon79

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 264
  • Respect: +39
    • View Profile
Re: Reporting a problem
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2011, 03:23:43 am »
0

The isotropic prompts are along the lines of "reveal reaction?: Secret Chamber / None" and "reveal a Bane card (Secret Chamber)? Yes / No". Seems pretty clear to me.
Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.042 seconds with 20 queries.