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[kn1tt3r]

Sea Hag with only 2 curses left in the supply.

[math]

Official FAQ, available at http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Band_of_Misfits

For example, if you use Procession to play Band of Misfits twice and choose Fortress the first time, you will automatically replay it as Fortress, then trash the Band of Misfits, return it to your hand (it is a Fortress when it's trashed, and Fortress has a when-trashed ability that returns it to your hand), and gain an Action card costing exactly $6 ($1 more than Band of Misfits, which has left play and so is no longer copying Fortress).

I'm having some problems understanding this.
The moment you trash BoM as Fortress, there seems to be a conflicting timing issue.

Fortress' "when-trashed" ability wants to trigger, BoM has left play and is no longer a Fortress, which takes precedence?
If it's the former Fortress simply returns to your hand. If it's the latter, BoM is no longer a Fortress and the "when-trashed" fizzles.

For me "when-trashed" can only react after a card has physically hit the trash, but at this point BoM should realize it's no longer the card it was.

This is the same issue I had.  With on-gain effects, the effect happens after the card has already been put in your discard pile.  Wouldn't this mean that with on-trash effects, the effect happens after the card has been put in the trash pile?  At that point, the Band of Misfits has left play, so it is no longer a Fortress and has no on-trash effect.

[Blueswan]

I'm confused. Someone needs to walk us through exactly what happens when you play Procession on Band Of Misfits and you make BOM emulate Fortress. Step by step, if anyone could, please. 

[Davio]

I can only show it up to the point of confusion.

1. Play Procession on BoM, choosing Fortress
2. Play "Fortress" once, get +1 Card, +2 Actions
3. Play "Fortress" again, get +1 Card, +2 Actions
4. Trash "Fortress" -> confusion

The thing is, for me "leave play" happens before Trashing.
Leaving play happens as soon as a card is moved from the play area (I think). At this point the destination may be unknown and the destination may even change. Suppose a card has the reaction "when you would trash a card, put it in your hand" then the card would leave play first, but never actually hit the trash, like Trader's reaction causes the originally gained card to never be in your discard pile.

"When trashed" happens after a card has been put in the trash, which is after leaving play.
Continuing with my assumptions:

5. BoM has left play (but has not yet been trashed) and is now BoM again
6. BoM hits the trash exactly as BoM
7. Gain a cord costing exactly one more than BoM (usually a $6)

[serakfalcon]

The best way I can think of it is On-Trash is when the card is to be removed from your deck but before you put it in the trash.
It goes as outlined by Davio, except at 4. Trash Fortress. On Trash Effect: Return fortress to your hand.
Continue with Procession instructions.
BoM is no longer in play, it's in your hand. BoM costs 5. Procession looks a BoM's cost and gives you an action card costing 6.

[math]

Here are the two major possibilities, as I see it:

(A)
4. Trash "Fortress".
5. Move "Fortress" to trash pile; it becomes a Band of Misfits.
6. Check for on-trash effects; there are none because it is a Band of Misfits now.
7. Gain an Action card costing $6.
END

(B)
4. Trash "Fortress".
5. Check for on-trash effects; "Fortress" has one.
6. Put "Fortress" into your hand; it becomes a Band of Misfits.
7. Procession tries to put the card from play into the trash pile, but has lost track of it because it is in your hand.
8. Gain an Action card costing $6.
END

Personally, I think (A) should be correct (you trash before resolving on-trash effects), but this contradicts the FAQ.

[serakfalcon]

The thing is, for me "leave play" happens before Trashing.
Leaving play happens as soon as a card is moved from the play area (I think). At this point the destination may be unknown and the destination may even change. Suppose a card has the reaction "when you would trash a card, put it in your hand" then the card would leave play first, but never actually hit the trash, like Trader's reaction causes the originally gained card to never be in your discard pile.

"When trashed" happens after a card has been put in the trash, which is after leaving play.
Continuing with my assumptions:

5. BoM has left play (but has not yet been trashed) and is now BoM again
6. BoM hits the trash exactly as BoM
7. Gain a cord costing exactly one more than BoM (usually a $6)

I agree that those are logical, but it contradicts the rules of BoM as explicitly set out in the Dark Ages manual.
If you reverse the order, and have leaving play follow trashing (aka Trash is the command to send a card out of your deck into the trash pile, and it leaves play when it reaches the trash pile) then all cards still work as expected. I'm trying to think of an edge case but haven't found any...

[ftl]

I'm confused. Someone needs to walk us through exactly what happens when you play Procession on Band Of Misfits and you make BOM emulate Fortress. Step by step, if anyone could, please. 

What happens is

1. Play Procession on BoM, choosing Fortress
2. Play "Fortress" once, get +1 Card, +2 Actions
3. Play "Fortress" again, get +1 Card, +2 Actions
4. Trash "Fortress"
5. Check for on-trash effects; "Fortress" has one.
6. Put "Fortress" into your hand; it becomes a Band of Misfits.
7. Gain an Action card costing $1 more than it. It is now a Band of Misfits costing $5, so you gain a card costing $6END

It's confusing, but it's also exactly an interaction written out in the FAQ, so we know how it works.

[Blueswan]

I'm confused. Someone needs to walk us through exactly what happens when you play Procession on Band Of Misfits and you make BOM emulate Fortress. Step by step, if anyone could, please. 

What happens is

1. Play Procession on BoM, choosing Fortress
2. Play "Fortress" once, get +1 Card, +2 Actions
3. Play "Fortress" again, get +1 Card, +2 Actions
4. Trash "Fortress"
5. Check for on-trash effects; "Fortress" has one.
6. Put "Fortress" into your hand; it becomes a Band of Misfits.
7. Gain an Action card costing $1 more than it. It is now a Band of Misfits costing $5, so you gain a card costing $6END

It's confusing, but it's also exactly an interaction written out in the FAQ, so we know how it works.

Works for me. Thanks!

[Davio]

I strongly disagree with the rules here, the rules are contradicting themselves.

Read the following:

Many cards in Dark Ages do something "when you trash" that card. These abilities function no
matter whose turn the card is trashed on. The player that a "when you trash this" ability functions
for is the player that had that card, regardless of whose card trashed the card. These abilities happen
directly after the card is put into the trash, and can function in the middle of resolving effects for
an Action card

Okay, so the "when-trashed" effect happens after a card has been put into the trash.
BoM is BoM until it leaves play which would logically be before it's trashed.
I mean, a card is bought before it's gained. Why doesn't a card leave play before it's trashed, this is pretty counter intuitive to me. A card can't leave play after it's trashed, right? At the moment it's trashed, it's already out of play.

Also, the rules say this:

If you use Band of Misfits as a
Throne Room (from Dominion), King's Court (from Prosperity),
or Procession

How would you be able to use BoM as KC? Am I missing an edge case or would this have something to do with Guilds?

[serakfalcon]

How would you be able to use BoM as KC? Am I missing an edge case or would this have something to do with Guilds?

Currently it can't, I guess that just leaves the option to have "name a card, that card is now 2 cheaper" type effects

I strongly disagree with the rules here, the rules are contradicting themselves.

I love Dominion

[Davio]

How would you be able to use BoM as KC? Am I missing an edge case or would this have something to do with Guilds?

Currently it can't, I guess that just leaves the option to have "name a card, that card is now 2 cheaper" type effects

I strongly disagree with the rules here, the rules are contradicting themselves.

I love Dominion

Spoilers! 

But it should be $3 cheaper. 

[serakfalcon]

But it should be $3 cheaper. 

After I wrote that I knew I should have written $x cheaper
Either way, almost anything is possible with the right engine

[Davio]

On the other hand, my mission to turn every new topic into an endless rules debate is going along splendidly. 

[brokoli]

Also Mining village.
Any $4 late in the game (to turn it into duchy)
Forge + a hand of 4 rats (3 free provinces !  ok very unlikely)

I have another rule question though : if you have a hand of 3 treasure maps, can you play a treasure map twice to topdeck 2x4 golds ?

[Watno]

Cultist if Ruins are close to running out and Border Village is in the supply.

[Davio]

Also Mining village.
Any $4 late in the game (to turn it into duchy)
Forge + a hand of 4 rats (3 free provinces !  ok very unlikely)

I have another rule question though : if you have a hand of 3 treasure maps, can you play a treasure map twice to topdeck 2x4 golds ?

No, this was talked about in another topic.

Basically, the conditional hangs on trashing two Treasure Maps, not just one extra.
And the actual trashing of a single copy can only be done once.

It would go like this:
1. Play Procession - TM1
2. Trash TM1 + TM2, get 4 Golds
3. Play TM1 again, trash TM3, no Golds because TM1 has already been trashed
4. "Trash TM1", fizzles, TM1 has already been trashed
5. Gain a card costing $1 more than TM1 (usually a $5)

[Kirian]

Any $4 late in the game (to turn it into duchy)

Procession can only gain you action cards; no Victory cards.  Probably because of exactly this problem.

[brokoli]

Any $4 late in the game (to turn it into duchy)

Procession can only gain you action cards; no Victory cards.  Probably because of exactly this problem.

Whoops... 
So any $5 late in a Border village game ^^

[Awaclus]

Any $4 late in the game (to turn it into duchy)

Procession can only gain you action cards; no Victory cards.  Probably because of exactly this problem.

Whoops... 
So any $5 late in a Border village game ^^

Even early.

[NoMoreFun]

Processing a Ruined Village will give you +2 actions, and it won't be around in your deck any more. I'd say that makes it quite a good target, even in the majority of cases when you don't get to gain anything.

[Davio]

Poor House feels great!

[jaybeez]

Sea Hag with only 2 curses left in the supply.

I reveal Moat.