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[KingZog3]

Maybe this has been said in another topic, but I just wanted to say some things I've noticed about Armory.

• Firstly, it's usually worse than Workshop. I usually use Workshop in Gardens/Feodum games. But topdecking green cards is bad, and the fact that it costs $4 makes it less reachable with so many green cards in your deck.
• I've noticed that when it's best is Vineyard games. Actually, it's pretty amazing. Because it doesn't actually gain the green cards, it can focus on topdecking things that won't hurt your next turn, like Villages, then other Armories and all those cantrip Actions. It can also topdeck Potions to buy the Vineyards

Come to think of it that's all I had to say. Didn't need or want to write an article, since Armory to too simple for that. Just some observations.

[Davio]

Do you find its price point too competitive?

If you use Workshop as your main €4 gainer, you can get a €4 with your other buy. Ironworks' Action seems better in general. Topdecking is only really useful in the beginning of your shuffle anyway and if you are playing this early, cards come around sooner.

So it might be better during the mid and end-game where you want to set something up?

[dondon151]

Firstly, it's usually worse than Workshop. I usually use Workshop in Gardens/Feodum games. But topdecking green cards is bad, and the fact that it costs $4 makes it less reachable with so many green cards in your deck.

Workshop's use is broader in engine games than it is in alt-VP games. I think you are overlooking a huge part of Workshop's utility. I would wager that Armory is overall more useful than Workshop.

If you use Workshop as your main €4 gainer, you can get a €4 with your other buy. Ironworks' Action seems better in general. Topdecking is only really useful in the beginning of your shuffle anyway and if you are playing this early, cards come around sooner.

This is also not necessarily true. Even if you reshuffle immediately afterwards, you don't have the certainty of drawing the newly gained card in your hand.

[WanderingWinder]

I have said it before, but I'm going to agree with dondon here. If you are only using workshop in gardens/silk road rushes, you're missing out on most of its value. Whenever there are engine components you want costing <=$4, that's where these kinds of cards shine. Now, workshop is also passable in rushes, but lemme tell you, workshop rushes are not all that great to start off with. So armory's effect, on-the-whole, is better than workshop, though yeah, sometimes workshops is better anyway. And heck, in feodum games, I there's not going to be loads of difference anyway - armory gets you silver, which is nice to topdeck, and then you just buy the feoda. But I don't know why you want to feodum rush anyway.

[HiveMindEmulator]

From Qvist's $4 card ranking discussion:

Armory - I'm not sure, but this also feels high. Gaining and topdecking is nice, but as I've already said, I feel like the best and main use of the gainers is for rushes. Perhaps I need to re-evaluate that.

You absolutely need to re-evaluate this. The main use of gainers is to gain engine components. Gaining villages is crucial for +cards/+actions engines when you only have light trashing, since you need to have a good enough village density to not end up with dead turns. Typically these engines involve a good $5 card, which you will buy, and a $4-or-less village you can gain with a Workshop-type. Armory's benefit is nice because it lets you always start your turn with a village if you do the gain last, so it's almost like Workshop+Scheme until the villages run out. But by then, hopefully you've gained enough that you'll be okay. I think Armory is actually a little low on this list currently.

[KingZog3]

Do you find its price point too competitive?

Yes, I suppose that's my mindset on the card

And yes, gainers are really good for engine components, but the thing is you'll often open with Workshop if you plan on gaining lots of Village type cards. Armory is $4, and if there is a good terminal at $4 then you may be wasting an opening buy simply for the topdecking. It depends on the set-up, but often I find that there is another $4 card I can open with that will help me more.

But I don't know why you want to feodum rush anyway.

I wouldn't. I didn't realize that I had said I would rush Feodum.

[dondon151]

And yes, gainers are really good for engine components, but the thing is you'll often open with Workshop if you plan on gaining lots of Village type cards. Armory is $4, and if there is a good terminal at $4 then you may be wasting an opening buy simply for the topdecking. It depends on the set-up, but often I find that there is another $4 card I can open with that will help me more.

This reeks of ranking Cellar by comparing it to Warehouse.

[RD]

When Armory came out I remember a lot of people saying it was great for alt-VP rushes, because topdecking Armories lets you get lots of Armories really fast and outweighs the annoyance of topdecking Gardens. (Or you can just buy Gardens with money and use the Armories for everything else). I don't think I've gotten around to trying it yet though. Has the consensus changed then?

And yes, gainers are really good for engine components, but the thing is you'll often open with Workshop if you plan on gaining lots of Village type cards. Armory is $4, and if there is a good terminal at $4 then you may be wasting an opening buy simply for the topdecking.

You're only half-wasting that opening buy though.

If you draw the Armory turn 3 then you can still topdeck whatever $4 opener you wanted, in time for turn 4, and you're unambiguously better off. If you get the Armory turn 4, well getting the other card on turn 5 isn't ideal but having an extra Armory in deck might make up for it. If you get the Armory on turn 5, that hurts pretty badly, but maybe it's no worse than if you'd opened the other card and got it on turn 5. In fact maybe it could be even better in some cases? You have the flexibility to just say it's too late for that other card, and get something more appropriate.

Edit: Opening Armory in hopes of drawing it on turn 3 seems like an especially good play in multiplayer, where you want the extra variance.

[gman314]

I just played a fun game with Conspirator and Armory where I would play a City, play an Armory to gain a Conspirator and play another Conspirator to draw the new one.

[PitzerMike]

Do you find its price point too competitive?

Yes, I suppose that's my mindset on the card

And yes, gainers are really good for engine components, but the thing is you'll often open with Workshop if you plan on gaining lots of Village type cards. Armory is $4, and if there is a good terminal at $4 then you may be wasting an opening buy simply for the topdecking. It depends on the set-up, but often I find that there is another $4 card I can open with that will help me more.

I don't really see the dilemma here.
If there's a 4$-card here that you really want but you open Armory instead, what happens is you play Armory and then top-deck that other 4$-card and you play it only one turn later than you would have otherwise.

[KingZog3]

Do you find its price point too competitive?

Yes, I suppose that's my mindset on the card

And yes, gainers are really good for engine components, but the thing is you'll often open with Workshop if you plan on gaining lots of Village type cards. Armory is $4, and if there is a good terminal at $4 then you may be wasting an opening buy simply for the topdecking. It depends on the set-up, but often I find that there is another $4 card I can open with that will help me more.

I don't really see the dilemma here.
If there's a 4$-card here that you really want but you open Armory instead, what happens is you play Armory and then top-deck that other 4$-card and you play it only one turn later than you would have otherwise.

But then I have Armory in my deck. If I have no use for it after gaining the other card, why get it in the first place?

[gman314]

Do you find its price point too competitive?

Yes, I suppose that's my mindset on the card

And yes, gainers are really good for engine components, but the thing is you'll often open with Workshop if you plan on gaining lots of Village type cards. Armory is $4, and if there is a good terminal at $4 then you may be wasting an opening buy simply for the topdecking. It depends on the set-up, but often I find that there is another $4 card I can open with that will help me more.

I don't really see the dilemma here.
If there's a 4$-card here that you really want but you open Armory instead, what happens is you play Armory and then top-deck that other 4$-card and you play it only one turn later than you would have otherwise.

But then I have Armory in my deck. If I have no use for it after gaining the other card, why get it in the first place?

The point of Armory is to gain more than one of a given card, or a bunch of different cheap cards. If you have more than enough actions, or can get more than enough actions by using Armory, you can get piles of cards which help your engine.

[KingZog3]

Do you find its price point too competitive?

Yes, I suppose that's my mindset on the card

And yes, gainers are really good for engine components, but the thing is you'll often open with Workshop if you plan on gaining lots of Village type cards. Armory is $4, and if there is a good terminal at $4 then you may be wasting an opening buy simply for the topdecking. It depends on the set-up, but often I find that there is another $4 card I can open with that will help me more.

I don't really see the dilemma here.
If there's a 4$-card here that you really want but you open Armory instead, what happens is you play Armory and then top-deck that other 4$-card and you play it only one turn later than you would have otherwise.

But then I have Armory in my deck. If I have no use for it after gaining the other card, why get it in the first place?

The point of Armory is to gain more than one of a given card, or a bunch of different cheap cards. If you have more than enough actions, or can get more than enough actions by using Armory, you can get piles of cards which help your engine.

I am not doubting this.

[WanderingWinder]

Do you find its price point too competitive?

Yes, I suppose that's my mindset on the card

And yes, gainers are really good for engine components, but the thing is you'll often open with Workshop if you plan on gaining lots of Village type cards. Armory is $4, and if there is a good terminal at $4 then you may be wasting an opening buy simply for the topdecking. It depends on the set-up, but often I find that there is another $4 card I can open with that will help me more.

I don't really see the dilemma here.
If there's a 4$-card here that you really want but you open Armory instead, what happens is you play Armory and then top-deck that other 4$-card and you play it only one turn later than you would have otherwise.

But then I have Armory in my deck. If I have no use for it after gaining the other card, why get it in the first place?

The point of Armory is to gain more than one of a given card, or a bunch of different cheap cards. If you have more than enough actions, or can get more than enough actions by using Armory, you can get piles of cards which help your engine.

I am not doubting this.

Then I don't understand your question. You get to play the second and every subsequent gain with Armory faster, on average, than if you had just bought. Of course, if you only want one copy of one card, then you buy it rather than armory into it. That's... why would you even think about Aromory-ing into it?

[RD]

The point of opening Armory and using it to pick up the "opener" is that you wind up with the same opener you would have had, one turn later, but you also have a free Armory (well, almost free) that you wouldn't have if you'd done things the other way.

Of course if a free Armory is a bad thing for your deck, then you wouldn't want to do that. I (and I guess PitzerMike) had let that go without saying in my previous post because it is pretty obvious, as WW said.