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[ipofanes]

It depends on what you mean by exist,

as in "is written down somewhere". And yes, I had uncountable sets of numbers in mind.

[AHoppy]

I think a lot of these modifications should be specific to the battle royale play style.  In normal Dominion, powerful combinations like the ones you are trying to nerf are A) not always available because one or more components are not in the kingdom or B) something like trashing or a village is missing, so the combination becomes much harder to bring together.  For battle royale, since all cards and helper cards are available, these hard to pull off combos would become easier.  So this nerfing makes sense. 

Another combo you may need to address for battle royale is the Hermit-Market Square one.  It can have the exact same effect as KC-KC-Bridge-Bridge-Bridge, and i can imagine it would be pretty easy to pull off in your battle royale game

[math]

The Hermit-Market Square combo automatically becomes much less powerful if your opponent is also going for it (5 Hermits can't do nearly as much damage as 7 or 9).  I don't think it's a problem.

[eHalcyon]

The Hermit-Market Square combo automatically becomes much less powerful if your opponent is also going for it (5 Hermits can't do nearly as much damage as 7 or 9).  I don't think it's a problem.

But Graverobber can bring back more Hermits. Also, that means that you are forced to pursue the same strategy if your opponent goes for it.

NV-Bridge might be dominant too...

[eHalcyon]

You are overstating the power of KC - Bridge, which still requires solid strategy to bring the pieces together quickly, and probably underestimating how powerful Hermit-Market Square really is.

[SirPeebles]

Especially in a battle royale, where Hermit/Market Square has its favorite support cards like Scheme and Haven.  Scheme lets you get a ton of Madmen even if your opponent(s) are pursuing the same strategy.

[eHalcyon]

I think a lot of these modifications should be specific to the battle royale play style.  In normal Dominion, powerful combinations like the ones you are trying to nerf are A) not always available because one or more components are not in the kingdom or B) something like trashing or a village is missing, so the combination becomes much harder to bring together.  For battle royale, since all cards and helper cards are available, these hard to pull off combos would become easier.  So this nerfing makes sense. 

Another combo you may need to address for battle royale is the Hermit-Market Square one.  It can have the exact same effect as KC-KC-Bridge-Bridge-Bridge, and i can imagine it would be pretty easy to pull off in your battle royale game

For either (A) or (B) in normal Dominion how do these tweaks hurt anything?  They might be unnecessary, but not harmful.  In case (C) [when the components are in the kingdom AND helper cards are available], the tweaks are helpful.  So we have....

	Tweaks	No Tweaks
Case A	Unnecessary	Unnecessary
Case B	Unnecessary	Unnecessary
Case C	More balanced	Imbalanced

To address this directly, nerfing powerful combos that only appear in a small subset of games makes the game as a whole less interesting.  It may very well be that KC-Bridge is overly dominant in the Battle Royale variant, but it certainly is not dominant in every regular 10 card kingdom that those two cards appear in.  If you nerf Bridge to nerf that combo, you also eliminate all the interesting 10 card kingdoms featuring them.  And they ARE interesting -- do you have the support necessary to bring the 5 cards together?  In what order do you pick up the pieces to reach the megaturn before your opponents?  Is there a faster strategy, or a way to disrupt the one going for the combo?  These are interesting decisions.

[DStu]

For either (A) or (B) in normal Dominion how do these tweaks hurt anything?  They might be unnecessary, but not harmful.  In case (C) [when the components are in the kingdom AND helper cards are available], the tweaks are helpful.  So we have....

The question is if they are really helpful.  The game is somehow about the interaction of the cards, and for some (most?), a strong combo once in a while is fun as long as it does not dominate the game (in a boring way) each time it is on the board.  But this is not the case for KC-Bridge, as said you need more ingredients to this than just KC and Bridges, then you usually need at least 3 Kings Court which are almost 3 Provinces, so a huge investement.  There might be counters like Possession, you have to build that engine in the first place,  and you have to realize the sets where KC-Bridge megaturn is the way to go.  There also might be 3-piling...

I have 11 games with KC+Bridge on CR,
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20121003-010623-b39df04e.html ended 3-6, so probably no 2KC3Bridge
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120913-130930-26483123.html attempt for megaturn, won with KCBridge+3singleBridges and 3pile
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120704-233915-95458099.html I play 2KC3Bridge but to late, opponent grinded Province 1KC1Bridge
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120222-094639-874ef26c.html IGG no KCs bought from me
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120124-084614-f80d9801.html building up for megaturn but 3pile
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110913-140248-44b7df29.html 3pile, no Bridges bought
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110721-085429-a85ba5be.html loss, oponent doesn't buy Bridges
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110518-113648-b03669c1.html first clear 2KC3Bridge here
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110414-225704-877ad8c5.html directly the next one. OK, it wass 2KC2Bridges
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110329-230532-9979d83e.html seems like Bank is easier here than Bridges
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110323-103427-b70666ef.html don't know what this is, but definitely not a megaturn.

So we have 11 games where 2 featured a megaturn, but all the others played certainly differently, while some of them gained from the possibility of the megaturn but played out differently.  So it's not at all clear what the end of a game with KC and Bridge will be, even if there is a possible engine on the board...

[cluckyb]

Maybe allow revealed Tribute cards to be put back, but that may imbalance it too much.

That would create a kingmaker scenario where someone could choose to leave a great hall and a harem there and keep feeding the one player. (sorta kinda have that problem already with duchess, I guess, but that is only one card and would be a combo so isn't really a huge issue)

[DStu]

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120124-084614-f80d9801.html and the second would probably end differently.  But I don't think the game-plan will change rapidly, if you have KC+engine and bridges you will shift priority of KCs from Bridges to the engine, to get mass actions and full draw, try to win the Bridge split and win this way.
But also now it's maybe that your target is 2KC3Bridge, but your real target always is to win, and usually this can be done before you get to 2KC3Bridge (see second game)

I think the real harm is when building up 1KC1Bridge now gives +3buys and engine components 3 cheaper, which will usually give you 3-4 engine components, this is not that easy anymore if they are only reduced by $1

[eHalcyon]

If Bridge were originally the way you've modified it, I wouldn't have another point of comparison.

You describe a way you beat NV-Bridge.  Well, does it consistently beat NV-Bridge?  And if so, wouldn't constant attacks also beat down KC-Bridge?

Unless you make every single card the same, there will always be cards and combos that are simply more powerful than others.  Should they be removed or nerfed?  Sure, if they are so game-breakingly powerful that they are almost always dominant.  Bridge as it is simply doesn't fall into that category, so a nerf is not necessary.  But leaving it as is means that, in a few games, that combo DOES come up, and then you have a glorious turn where you pile drive the Provinces.  That kind of moment is worth having once in a while.

As for [5 cards] + [1 action] = Win...

Well, KC-Goons-Masq pins do that, don't they?  Except instead of one glorious megaturn, it is a long and painful grind towards an inevitable conclusion.

But the point is that, in Dominion, you don't just get those 5 cards in hand.  That's not how it works.  You have to buy KC, and KC is not cheap.  You have to align five cards in your hand, and that's not easy either.  Treasure Map only requires two cards to kick off, but that in itself is tough enough that it's a weak card.  5 cards is much more difficult.

[eHalcyon]

You are talking about how certain cards dominate, but then you say that every game would start out with some kind of junking until the Curses ran out.  Doesn't that mean that the cursers are dominating?  Why is that acceptable when KC-Bridge is not?

I agree that balance isn't perfect between all the cards, but that's not the point.  The point is that KC-Bridge really isn't dominant in all setups of regular games.  If it is in Battle Royale, then yeah -- address that for the variant.  But it's not necessary for the regular game, and actually detracts a bit from those breakout moments.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that "Booya-Bridge-turns" are the best thing ever.  It's not that I really, really like the combo or anything.  I'm just saying that it's nice to have big moments once in a while, for those rare times when you can pull it all together.  It's not fun if every single game plays out the same, whether that means always KC-Bridge or always slog or whatever.

[AHoppy]

eHalcyon basically adressed everything I was going after.  Yes, sometimes those combinations are the most dominating thing on a board.  And that in my opinion can make games more interesting.  Being able to notice a dominating combination and the successfully pull it off is one off the most fun things in Dominion.  true, battle royale would make these opportunities more accessible, but I would think that something like KC-Bridge is the only dominating combo.  I think any combos that end the game quickly would be dominating.  you never have to figure out what to do when the actions are crap, because none of the actions are crap.  So if you just start nerfing every powerful combo, then to me all that you will leave is big money... and that's far from interesting.

[ipofanes]

In Diplomacy, Turkey wins half the time.

Izzatso? I don't bother to actually create an account only to look it up in http://www.playdiplomacy.com/index.php?msg=6, but maybe someone with access can enlighten us.

[Jack Rudd]

My memory is that Russia had the best win rate of all the powers in Diplomacy, but it's a long time since I saw any statistics. I'd be surprised if Turkey racked up a large share of the victories, because it's very difficult for Turkey to get over the main stalemate lines.

[Robz888]

Russia leads the pack.

Then I think Britain, France, turkey, and Germany are virtually tied.

Austria is a bit behind them.

Italy is further behind the other six.

[popsofctown]

I think you should errata Masquerade differently.  Your nerfing some interesting uses that are not overpowered.  Occasionally I like to find a way to play a Militia followed by an empty handed Masquerade, then receive a Gold, then transition out of that into buying Provinces rather than continuing to focus on the pinning.

I think you should remove your additional text and instead change the trashing to be conditional on passing.  "If you passed a card, you may trash a card from your hand".
That lets you play 1 empty Masquerade per turn, but that's it.  It's in similar spirit to your Possession errata, in a way.

[popsofctown]

In a 2 player game, though, you're not really passing at all.  And a multiplayer game is just an extension of that, the player with the empty hand is basically not participating in the passing.  That doesn't seem in the spirit of the card any more than what I've proposed.

Prepending "If your deck and discard pile are both empty, gain a Copper/Estate/Curse/Gold" would be in the "passing spirit".