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[Robz888]

I've had my opponent disappear on me while I'm in the middle of an epic comeback one too many times.

[Kirian]

Are you not getting the five minute time out?

[Robz888]

Are you not getting the five minute time out?

No I get it, but I've realized that when you win by virtue of the five minute time out, the game doesn't count as a win. My rating didn't change after it.

[LastFootnote]

I pretty much play exclusively against bots now, and this is a big part of the reason. They need to get their act together NOW.

[Ozle]

Are you not getting the five minute time out?

No I get it, but I've realized that when you win by virtue of the five minute time out, the game doesn't count as a win. My rating didn't change after it.

Possible that your opponent didnt have a high enough score so you didnt gain any points from the victory?

[ftl]

No, when somebody times out or quits it doesn't count as a loss. They keep saying they'll fix that eventually, but they're taking forever to get it all done. C'est la vie. It'll happen eventually...

[popsofctown]

Stop being so critical.  It's still a beta, right?

[clb]

No, if it were beta we would still have Iso. 

[DStu]

Stop being so critical.  It's still a beta, right?

upvoted by poe's law

[clb]

Stop being so critical.  It's still a beta, right?

upvoted by poe's law

Touché, and an upvote for you.

[Kirian]

Are you not getting the five minute time out?

No I get it, but I've realized that when you win by virtue of the five minute time out, the game doesn't count as a win. My rating didn't change after it.

Is your rating more important than having fun?  Serious question, not trying to be a dick.

[LastFootnote]

Are you not getting the five minute time out?

No I get it, but I've realized that when you win by virtue of the five minute time out, the game doesn't count as a win. My rating didn't change after it.

Is your rating more important than having fun?  Serious question, not trying to be a dick.

The problem is that the current system encourages your opponents to close their browser and make you wait five minutes. Waiting five minutes is not fun.

[michaeljb]

Are you not getting the five minute time out?

No I get it, but I've realized that when you win by virtue of the five minute time out, the game doesn't count as a win. My rating didn't change after it.

Is your rating more important than having fun?  Serious question, not trying to be a dick.

Whether it is or not, waiting for your opponent to time out is definitely unfun. Getting a rating boost for your patience could at least be a compensation for the unfun time.

[Robz888]

Are you not getting the five minute time out?

No I get it, but I've realized that when you win by virtue of the five minute time out, the game doesn't count as a win. My rating didn't change after it.

Is your rating more important than having fun?  Serious question, not trying to be a dick.

My rating isn't more important than having fun. But it's also very important to me. I'm a competitor; I like being good at something, improving at it, and seeing objective evidence that I am making progress. In high school I ran track competitively, and while in a very real sense I was doing it for more reason than just to be good at it... I wanted to know my times. If I just ran a 400 meter dash and I think it was fast, well, I want to know exactly how fast it is. That's a big part of the reason that I do it.

This game I played today, my opponent was two Colonies ahead of me. But man, my strategy was better, I had just taken the rest of the Curses thanks to my opponent's Torturers, I had finished draining the Farming Village pile with Workshop, and I had just used 3 Horns of Plenty to pick up King's Court/City/City. These Level 2 Cities were the only source of +buy, and my opponent had none. Which means I could safely drain the City pile to 2 if I wanted--he had no way to gain more than 1 thing per turn. Which also means I had him totally defeated; I could afford perhaps 2 more turns of building before a huge Horns/Kings/Cities/(and Bishop!) megaturn got me all the rest of those points. And I had planned this, I hadn't panicked when I fell behind in Colonies, or when I had accepted 3 Curses.

But I never got to finish that game, and I never got credit for it. And that's something Goko has to fix before I ever play another random opponent.

[spiritbears]

I agree Robz. The only play with a very select group of humans now. For random play I stuck with Botz.   And the whole "beta" thing very badly handled in my mind.  Goko will never be able to replicate/replace iso....so for that (even though I have paid for every single RL expansion and goko card set), I will never completely forgive the Don and goko...they didn't need to force Iso down...they  chose to through agreement and capitalist inclination.

[Robz888]

I agree Robz. The only play with a very select group of humans now. For random play I stuck with Botz.   And the whole "beta" thing very badly handled in my mind.  Goko will never be able to replicate/replace iso....so for that (even though I have paid for every single RL expansion and goko card set), I will never completely forgive the Don and goko...they didn't need to force Iso down...they  chose to through agreement and capitalist inclination.

I have a slightly different take. I want Donald to make money from online Dominion, I am willing to pay him for online Dominion, I'm just not going to pay for this version of online Dominion until they add auto-resign, and I'm extremely frustrated that they haven't fixed it yet, since it seems categorically more important to me than building 50 new lobbies.

[Ozle]

I agree Robz. The only play with a very select group of humans now. For random play I stuck with Botz.   And the whole "beta" thing very badly handled in my mind.  Goko will never be able to replicate/replace iso....so for that (even though I have paid for every single RL expansion and goko card set), I will never completely forgive the Don and goko...they didn't need to force Iso down...they  chose to through agreement and capitalist inclination.

Pretty sure there was nothing 'The Don' could/would do about Goko. He sold the rights to make Dominion to RGG for X amount of years, im pretty sure thats a standard contract for games.

Unless your critisizing him for selling it in the first place, but I doubt you are doing that.

[spiritbears]

I had always thought it was the case that it was an agreement between x and Dougz that kept iso alive, not an RGG and Dougz agreement?  Anyway, goko certainly didn't need to put the hammer down on Iso and could have worked out an agreement to allow it to stay afloat.  And, I'm betting the Donald probably held/holds enough sway with RGG (and maybe goko) to negotiate keeping iso alive...but my impression from reading in here, was that was never something he wanted, since he always referred to iso as "something people get for free [without paying me/RGG]"
Certainly this could all be my misguided interpretation.  But I wish the Donald's lawyer and rgg's and goko's and Dougz could have all come together on it....so many people like that product, has to be worth keeping alive! 

[Kirian]

I had always thought it was the case that it was an agreement between x and Dougz that kept iso alive, not an RGG and Dougz agreement?

It was a gentlemen's agreement between all three, really, though only RGG technically had the rights to make such an agreement.

Anyway, goko certainly didn't need to put the hammer down on Iso and could have worked out an agreement to allow it to stay afloat.

In which case they would have made no money, which contradicts their business model of making some money.  Which is pretty common in business models.

And, I'm betting the Donald probably held/holds enough sway with RGG (and maybe goko) to negotiate keeping iso alive...but my impression from reading in here, was that was never something he wanted, since he always referred to iso as "something people get for free [without paying me/RGG]"

Did you know that the first person RGG and Donald approached to do the commercial version was, in fact, Dougz?  He didn't want the job.  Yet RGG let him keep it up until a commercial version was live.

Certainly this could all be my misguided interpretation.

Yes, it certainly could be.

[SCSN]

Are you not getting the five minute time out?

No I get it, but I've realized that when you win by virtue of the five minute time out, the game doesn't count as a win. My rating didn't change after it.

Is your rating more important than having fun?  Serious question, not trying to be a dick.

To me, the competitiveness is what keeps it fun.

[spiritbears]

Iso alive doesn't mean goko can't make money...it's called competition.  And the market should bear both.  The fact that the better product is losin out to the inferior I guess shows how capitalism is just a rigged game anyways.  Smart people (or their lawyers) should have found a way to make money with both (or let both exist and attract dominion players!

[michaeljb]

Smart people (or their lawyers) should have found a way to make money with both

Did you know that the first person RGG and Donald approached to do the commercial version was, in fact, Dougz?  He didn't want the job.

[Morgrim7]

I've had my opponent disappear on me while I'm in the middle of an epic comeback one too many times.

+1

[Kirian]

Iso alive doesn't mean goko can't make money...it's called competition.  And the market should bear both.

But it's a non-level competition; the market will always tilt toward the free version.  If Iso continued running for free, no one was going to switch to Goko.  If Doug had been willing to turn Iso into a pay-to-play site, then maybe we could discuss actual competition, but that really doesn't seem to be his thing.  And in any case, the IP rights are tied up separately.  The book publishing world equivalent would be to suggest that anyone can take a copy of the latest Stephen King novel, package it themselves, and sell or give it away to anyone.  That's not how publishing works.  And game publishing is still publishing.

[SCSN]

If Doug had been willing to turn Iso into a pay-to-play site, then maybe we could discuss actual competition, but that really doesn't seem to be his thing.

But was it ever an option to have iso co-exist with Goko, but behind a Goko paywall? Like, did Goko propose that? From what I've read Dougz was just offered to work for Goko (which he didn't want because he preferred his Google job), and Goko still wanted Iso down no matter what. Now that is a very rotten mindset to me, to force a superior product to close shop even though they could just have let it be and profited from it (I'd easily pay $5-10/month for Iso, and I think many other iso-enthusiasts would as well).

I can rationalize all day long that this is just how stuff works in the publishing world, but that doesn't stop me from experiencing disgust on a primal, emotional level.

[pst]

If Iso continued running for free, no one was going to switch to Goko.

It seems like in discussions about Goko here there's always a risk that people read things into posts that aren't there, but I'll take that risk and write what I think would have happened in this parallel universe anyway. I agree that those that used Isotropic a lot wouldn't have switched. They (we) were happy there. But that certainly wouldn't mean that no one would use Goko! A lot of new players who never were interested in Isotropic would have joined Goko anyway, and probably a lot of those who only played a little at Isotropic as well. That was seen already during the short co-existence there was.

[AJD]

The book publishing world equivalent would be to suggest that anyone can take a copy of the latest Stephen King novel, package it themselves, and sell or give it away to anyone.  That's not how publishing works.

Not addressing the aptness of the simile you intended, but you might want to consider rephrasing this.... Taking a copy of the latest Stephen King novel, packaging it yourself in a nice box or paper wrapper, and giving it away to anyone is a very common type of birthday present, for example.

[bedlam]

This game I played today, my opponent was two Colonies ahead of me. But man, my strategy was better, I had just taken the rest of the Curses thanks to my opponent's Torturers, I had finished draining the Farming Village pile with Workshop, and I had just used 3 Horns of Plenty to pick up King's Court/City/City. These Level 2 Cities were the only source of +buy, and my opponent had none. Which means I could safely drain the City pile to 2 if I wanted--he had no way to gain more than 1 thing per turn. Which also means I had him totally defeated; I could afford perhaps 2 more turns of building before a huge Horns/Kings/Cities/(and Bishop!) megaturn got me all the rest of those points. And I had planned this, I hadn't panicked when I fell behind in Colonies, or when I had accepted 3 Curses.

To play Devil's Advocate here...

An opponent who is already going Colonies who just gave you all the curses on a torturer board without buying any cities is probably newb enough to not recognize what you are building up to as an epic comeback. I know I wouldn't. I would think I've got this game in the bag. My first thought is that it was just a disconnect rather than a quit...maybe. Still your point about getting a rating boost when your opponent quits is tops on my complaint list too.

BTW

Devil's Advocate
$6 Victory - Reaction

4VP

When another player plays an attack card you may reveal this. If you do, you are unaffected by that attack, trash this card and gain a Duchy.

Edit: changed cost and VP

[eHalcyon]

If Doug had been willing to turn Iso into a pay-to-play site, then maybe we could discuss actual competition, but that really doesn't seem to be his thing.

But was it ever an option to have iso co-exist with Goko, but behind a Goko paywall? Like, did Goko propose that? From what I've read Dougz was just offered to work for Goko (which he didn't want because he preferred his Google job), and Goko still wanted Iso down no matter what. Now that is a very rotten mindset to me, to force a superior product to close shop even though they could just have let it be and profited from it (I'd easily pay $5-10/month for Iso, and I think many other iso-enthusiasts would as well).

I can rationalize all day long that this is just how stuff works in the publishing world, but that doesn't stop me from experiencing disgust on a primal, emotional level.

I think you've got it wrong. When RGG approached dougz, Goko (or rather, funsockets at that time) in was not even in the picture.

Now possibly they had certain requests that dougz world not have had the time to handle - making ios and android apps, creating an extra shiny ui - we don't know. But dougz turned it down and that's when Goko picked up the contact.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong!

[SCSN]

If Doug had been willing to turn Iso into a pay-to-play site, then maybe we could discuss actual competition, but that really doesn't seem to be his thing.

But was it ever an option to have iso co-exist with Goko, but behind a Goko paywall? Like, did Goko propose that? From what I've read Dougz was just offered to work for Goko (which he didn't want because he preferred his Google job), and Goko still wanted Iso down no matter what. Now that is a very rotten mindset to me, to force a superior product to close shop even though they could just have let it be and profited from it (I'd easily pay $5-10/month for Iso, and I think many other iso-enthusiasts would as well).

I can rationalize all day long that this is just how stuff works in the publishing world, but that doesn't stop me from experiencing disgust on a primal, emotional level.

I think you've got it wrong. When RGG approached dougz, Goko (or rather, funsockets at that time) in was not even in the picture.

Now possibly they had certain requests that dougz world not have had the time to handle - making ios and android apps, creating an extra shiny ui - we don't know. But dougz turned it down and that's when Goko picked up the contact.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong!

Fair enough, though my main point was that Goko wanted iso down while they could just have built a paywall.

[Watno]

I doubt dougz would have agreed to such a paywall system.
Also, people from Goko are convinced their product is superior.

[Polk5440]

This may be relevant from jqs on getsatisfaction. Key line:

Hi ... yes, we're releasing part of it tonight... quitting will count as a loss and we're going to start aging the leaderboards a bit faster for a bit.

[Watno]

And it was actually posted today.

[SCSN]

Also...

Rejoin is a different enchilada and we don't have that yet.

I'm not sure how I feel about quitting counting as a loss without a rejoin option. The one thing more frustrating than a computer crash in the middle of a winning game is it counting as a loss...

[Polk5440]

Also...

Rejoin is a different enchilada and we don't have that yet.

I'm not sure how I feel about quitting counting as a loss without a rejoin option. The one thing more frustrating than a computer crash in the middle of a winning game is it counting as a loss...

I agree. This was the reason why they had not counted it as a loss in the first place, as I understand. But maybe quitting for ranking is becoming too prevalent. Hopefully they will post some kind of timeline for a "rejoin" feature.

[Robz888]

This may be relevant from jqs on getsatisfaction. Key line:

Hi ... yes, we're releasing part of it tonight... quitting will count as a loss and we're going to start aging the leaderboards a bit faster for a bit.

That's interesting. Does anyone know if they've implemented this?

[WanderingWinder]

Refreshing now results in a loss, at least on casual. Haven't had it come up on pro, but I imagine it's the same.

[Robz888]

Great, thanks.

[loppo]

Refreshing now results in a loss, at least on casual. Haven't had it come up on pro, but I imagine it's the same.

its a loss in pro-games as well. Had this happen yesterday. so at least this annoying problem is solved.

[Lashof]

I protect my pro rating by only playing pro with people I know won't quit.  I play casual mostly, and so when someone DCs, I just resign.

My casual rating is ~2000 points lower than my pro rating


I also play against my SO, when we are both logged into my account.  Somehow, when I play vs. myself (which you can do on goko), I lose rating points.  Goko math.

[Polk5440]

I also play against my SO, when we are both logged into my account.  Somehow, when I play vs. myself (which you can do on goko), I lose rating points.  Goko math.

I would be concerned if this allowed you to gain points indefinitely. That would be a pretty bad exploit.

[SCSN]

Here I quit at turn 4 as it downed on me that my Minion/King's Court plan would be outgunned by his Hamlet/Tunnel engine.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130409/log.505d732a51c359e6597efeb8.1365518665567.txt

RIIIIIGHT. -49 RATING POINTS, FU GOKO!

[ftl]

Here I quit at turn 4 as it downed on me that my Minion/King's Court plan would be outgunned by his Hamlet/Tunnel engine.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130409/log.505d732a51c359e6597efeb8.1365518665567.txt

RIIIIIGHT. -49 RATING POINTS, FU GOKO!

Wait, I don't get what's wrong with that. You played a game and you lost and lost rating for it. What are you angry at goko for?

[Stealth Tomato]

Here I quit at turn 4 as it downed on me that my Minion/King's Court plan would be outgunned by his Hamlet/Tunnel engine.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130409/log.505d732a51c359e6597efeb8.1365518665567.txt

RIIIIIGHT. -49 RATING POINTS, FU GOKO!

Lag-out-and-lose is going to be a side effect of any system that punishes quitters. It's not possible to separate lag-outs from quits. I had this problem on Iso sometimes as well. You just have to deal with it.

On a side note, this post is a great example of how end-of-day leaderboard updates can actually be much better than real-time--you don't get the chance to agonize about how that one unlucky draw cost you X rating points.

[SCSN]

On iso I was always able to rejoin after a computer crash, and Goko has been promising for ages that they'll implement that too... In fact, that was the very reason that they put off punishing quitters for so long (which I agreed with btw, as I think the current situation is worse).

[theory]

I think that's really far down the list of priorities tbh.  I am habituated to the fact that in most online games, if I disconnect, I lose, and such is life.

[SCSN]

Here I quit at turn 4 as it downed on me that my Minion/King's Court plan would be outgunned by his Hamlet/Tunnel engine.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130409/log.505d732a51c359e6597efeb8.1365518665567.txt

RIIIIIGHT. -49 RATING POINTS, FU GOKO!

Wait, I don't get what's wrong with that. You played a game and you lost and lost rating for it. What are you angry at goko for?

I really can't tell whether you're serious or not

[Robz888]

Here I quit at turn 4 as it downed on me that my Minion/King's Court plan would be outgunned by his Hamlet/Tunnel engine.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130409/log.505d732a51c359e6597efeb8.1365518665567.txt

RIIIIIGHT. -49 RATING POINTS, FU GOKO!

Wait, I don't get what's wrong with that. You played a game and you lost and lost rating for it. What are you angry at goko for?

I'm also confused. You SHOULD lose points in that situation. I want you to lose points for that exact thing.

[ftl]

Here I quit at turn 4 as it downed on me that my Minion/King's Court plan would be outgunned by his Hamlet/Tunnel engine.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130409/log.505d732a51c359e6597efeb8.1365518665567.txt

RIIIIIGHT. -49 RATING POINTS, FU GOKO!

Wait, I don't get what's wrong with that. You played a game and you lost and lost rating for it. What are you angry at goko for?

I really can't tell whether you're serious or not

I was being serious. Were you joking and I was just not getting it? Sorry if that's the case.

[SCSN]

@Rob/Ftl I "quit" because my computer crashed and was being sarcastic about it in my post. This would have been one of the easiest wins ever against a player of much lower rank whom I only played because I didn't feel like waiting any longer.

I think that's really far down the list of priorities tbh.  I am habituated to the fact that in most online games, if I disconnect, I lose, and such is life.

Huh, well, I'm so completely not used to this! The only two games I've played online prior to Goko dominion are poker at many different sites and Isotropic dominion. Every single time my computer has ever crashed or my connection went down or whatever, I've been able to reconnect and rejoin the games. I probably played about a million hands of poker or so, so that's saying alot!

I found the quitters frustrating, but losing because of a computer crash really puts me on lifetilt and makes me reluctant to play again.

[werothegreat]

@Rob/Ftl I "quit" because my computer crashed and was being sarcastic about it in my post. This would have been one of the easiest wins ever against a player of much lower rank whom I only played because I didn't feel like waiting any longer.

I think that's really far down the list of priorities tbh.  I am habituated to the fact that in most online games, if I disconnect, I lose, and such is life.

Huh, well, I'm so completely not used to this! The only two games I've played online prior to Goko dominion are poker at many different sites and Isotropic dominion. Every single time my computer has ever crashed or my connection went down or whatever, I've been able to reconnect and rejoin the games. I probably played about a million hands of poker or so, so that's saying alot!

I found the quitters frustrating, but losing because of a computer crash really puts me on lifetilt and makes me reluctant to play again.

I guess none of us read it as sarcasm because Minion is terrible against Tunnel.  What were you thinking?

[SCSN]

@Rob/Ftl I "quit" because my computer crashed and was being sarcastic about it in my post. This would have been one of the easiest wins ever against a player of much lower rank whom I only played because I didn't feel like waiting any longer.

I think that's really far down the list of priorities tbh.  I am habituated to the fact that in most online games, if I disconnect, I lose, and such is life.

Huh, well, I'm so completely not used to this! The only two games I've played online prior to Goko dominion are poker at many different sites and Isotropic dominion. Every single time my computer has ever crashed or my connection went down or whatever, I've been able to reconnect and rejoin the games. I probably played about a million hands of poker or so, so that's saying alot!

I found the quitters frustrating, but losing because of a computer crash really puts me on lifetilt and makes me reluctant to play again.

I guess none of us read it as sarcasm because Minion is terrible against Tunnel.  What were you thinking?

Huh what? I'd say Tunnel is about the worst card on that board! With Minion, Scheme, KC and Militia he'll be playing 3 card hands every turn. But I'm gonna try this board against a bot as your comment really surprised me!

[GendoIkari]

@Rob/Ftl I "quit" because my computer crashed and was being sarcastic about it in my post. This would have been one of the easiest wins ever against a player of much lower rank whom I only played because I didn't feel like waiting any longer.

I think that's really far down the list of priorities tbh.  I am habituated to the fact that in most online games, if I disconnect, I lose, and such is life.

Huh, well, I'm so completely not used to this! The only two games I've played online prior to Goko dominion are poker at many different sites and Isotropic dominion. Every single time my computer has ever crashed or my connection went down or whatever, I've been able to reconnect and rejoin the games. I probably played about a million hands of poker or so, so that's saying alot!

I found the quitters frustrating, but losing because of a computer crash really puts me on lifetilt and makes me reluctant to play again.

I guess none of us read it as sarcasm because Minion is terrible against Tunnel.  What were you thinking?

Huh what? I'd say Tunnel is about the worst card on that board! With Minion, Scheme, KC and Militia he'll be playing 3 card hands every turn. But I'm gonna try this board against a bot as your comment really surprised me!

Yes, and with his Tunnels combined with your Minions and Militias, those 3 cards will all be Golds.

[Robz888]

Yeah, but he will have like a billion Golds.

In my experience, Tunnel/Minion sets are hard to play correctly. It's not like you don't want any Minions, since they will activate your Tunnels, not just your opponents, but then of course they ruin the traditional Minion deck which doesn't want Treasure. But you know I think these things actually involve a bit of luck--if your opponent's Minion hits a hand without Tunnel and gives you a hand with Tunnel, that's pretty terrible, unless you have a Minion. Scheme/Minion is confusing too, frankly. Militia seems way more likely to help your opponent than hurt him, though, if he competently buys Tunnels.

Bottom line, I'm not sure exactly how to play this correctly, but I will be buying Tunnels, I can promise you that.

[ftl]

Or use tunnels to get gold, remake gold into KC. BM-Hamlet-Tunnel-Minion could very well lose to an appropriate KC engine with +Buy from hamlet, but it's not at all clear from the start of the game that you were ahead. Well, not clear to me at least.  You were ahead by a minion, but you were behind on trashing; you didn't have a remake yet, whereas he'd already gotten one AND used it once AND switched out his hovel for a tunnel already. That's why I didn't realize your sarcasm, looking at the openings I really didn't get the idea that you were clearly ahead or anything.

[jonts26]

I'm almost positive buying tunnels for anything other than late game points on the board is not the right move. Go ahead and load up on Golds and get your maybe 1 province per turn. I'll be getting 2 or more and have almost complete immunity to greening so I'll grab all the duchies too if I need them. Really the trick on this board is winning the minion split. And early tunnels interfere with that greatly.

Actually I take some of that back. I might pick up a tunnel in the mid game with hopes of triggering them myself and remaking gold to KC, but that balance is sort of tricky.

[ftl]

What about the early tunnel in a Hovel hand? It doesn't increase deck size, it trashes a hovel with it. Exchanging 1st-turn advantage for a tunnel instead of a hovel, and for a bunch of golds throughout the rest of the game. 

I mean, here it's pretty trivial to do the tunnel->Gold->KC thing. The t1 tunnel doesn't increase deck size, remake will instantly give you 2 hamlets out of the other 2 shelters, and the necessary collisions will just happen soon enough without anything else to set them up.

And trashing? Skip remake entirely to win the minion split? That doesn't seem right; with oracle for supplementary draw, winning the minion split doesn't seem as critical, if you win the minion split 6-4 at the expense of not trashing anything PLUS having a few silvers, I don't think you're in that great of a shape, your KCs will miss your minions in your 4-card untrashed hands, whereas 4 minions is quite enough if you've trashed everything else and can add in oracles for a more standard draw engine.

[Squidd]

Had to sub Margrave for Minion since I haven't bought Intrigue, and I'm playing a bot, so maybe this isn't worth anything, but: Tunnels were effective.

[ftl]

Minion plays very, very different from Margrave.

And with Minion and Tunnel, this is a *very* interactive set. I don't think that a game against a not-very-good bot is indicative of anything. (There's King's Court on the board with a good engine available. This game should be over with somebody being able to buy all the provinces by turn 16-17 at the latest, IMO. Your game lasted 21 turns. I can't play a game and post a log to demonstrate right now, but I think that's not a very controversial statement, KC is super-good and there's all the components for a good engine to be made here.)

[jonts26]

What about the early tunnel in a Hovel hand? It doesn't increase deck size, it trashes a hovel with it. Exchanging 1st-turn advantage for a tunnel instead of a hovel, and for a bunch of golds throughout the rest of the game. 

I mean, here it's pretty trivial to do the tunnel->Gold->KC thing. The t1 tunnel doesn't increase deck size, remake will instantly give you 2 hamlets out of the other 2 shelters, and the necessary collisions will just happen soon enough without anything else to set them up.

And trashing? Skip remake entirely to win the minion split? That doesn't seem right; with oracle for supplementary draw, winning the minion split doesn't seem as critical, if you win the minion split 6-4 at the expense of not trashing anything PLUS having a few silvers, I don't think you're in that great of a shape, your KCs will miss your minions in your 4-card untrashed hands, whereas 4 minions is quite enough if you've trashed everything else and can add in oracles for a more standard draw engine.

I never said don't open remake. I said don't get an early tunnel. I might consider hovel to tunnel if I have the right draw for it, but that's not a plan going in I think, more of just capitalizing on the right opportunity like a 5 copper mint or something.

Anyway, you could skip trashing and still have a reilable engine. So maybe you can ignore remake opening turns. Especially since you cant remake-> silver to get any sort of early economy. I'd have to test it a few times. You'll be faster in the first few turns, slower in the middle turns when you have more junk you cant deal with, and it doesn't matter much in the later turns when you can scheme everything you need.

[Kirian]

@Rob/Ftl I "quit" because my computer crashed and was being sarcastic about it in my post. This would have been one of the easiest wins ever against a player of much lower rank whom I only played because I didn't feel like waiting any longer.

I think that's really far down the list of priorities tbh.  I am habituated to the fact that in most online games, if I disconnect, I lose, and such is life.

Huh, well, I'm so completely not used to this! The only two games I've played online prior to Goko dominion are poker at many different sites and Isotropic dominion. Every single time my computer has ever crashed or my connection went down or whatever, I've been able to reconnect and rejoin the games. I probably played about a million hands of poker or so, so that's saying alot!

I found the quitters frustrating, but losing because of a computer crash really puts me on lifetilt and makes me reluctant to play again.

Lots of games out there won't let you reconnect.  Starcraft immediately comes to mind.  WOW lets you reconnect but you lose a couple minutes of time, so hopefully you were DPS and not a tank or healer.  I assume most FPS and RTS games are the same way.

[theory]

I think that's really far down the list of priorities tbh.  I am habituated to the fact that in most online games, if I disconnect, I lose, and such is life.

Huh, well, I'm so completely not used to this! The only two games I've played online prior to Goko dominion are poker at many different sites and Isotropic dominion. Every single time my computer has ever crashed or my connection went down or whatever, I've been able to reconnect and rejoin the games. I probably played about a million hands of poker or so, so that's saying alot!

I found the quitters frustrating, but losing because of a computer crash really puts me on lifetilt and makes me reluctant to play again.

This isn't a problem with Goko, it's a problem with you.  Sometimes you lose games that you should have won.  Other times, you win games you should have lost.  As a poker player you should be better about not going on tilt.

Disconnecting is part of life, it happens.  Sometimes I get a free loss, sometimes I get a free win.  Not worth implementing reconnection, I think.  For example, how long does the other guy have to wait?  5 minutes?  10 minutes?  1 minute?

[ftl]

Most likely the same amount of time they'd have to wait if you simply walked away from your keyboard and stopped playing.

Reconnecting doesn't work at all in real-time games like Starcraft or WoW, but it makes perfect sense for a turn-based game.

[hsiale]

For example, how long does the other guy have to wait?  5 minutes?  10 minutes?  1 minute?

I think something like 20% of average 2-player Goko game duration could be a fair choice if the other guy actually is a guy. And indefinitely (at least till system logs you out) if the other guy is a bot. I have lost 3 games yesterday against a bot due to disconnects that lasted around 10 seconds each.

[andwilk]

The last 2 games where my opponent disconnected and I eventually got the "Opponent Quit" screen, I actually received an increase rating points.  Previously, I never received any when this occurred.  Does anyone know if they actually finally addressed this issue?

[jsh357]

The last 2 games where my opponent disconnected and I eventually got the "Opponent Quit" screen, I actually received an increase rating points.  Previously, I never received any when this occurred.  Does anyone know if they actually finally addressed this issue?

Yes, quitting results in a loss now.

[eHalcyon]

@Rob/Ftl I "quit" because my computer crashed and was being sarcastic about it in my post. This would have been one of the easiest wins ever against a player of much lower rank whom I only played because I didn't feel like waiting any longer.

I think that's really far down the list of priorities tbh.  I am habituated to the fact that in most online games, if I disconnect, I lose, and such is life.

Huh, well, I'm so completely not used to this! The only two games I've played online prior to Goko dominion are poker at many different sites and Isotropic dominion. Every single time my computer has ever crashed or my connection went down or whatever, I've been able to reconnect and rejoin the games. I probably played about a million hands of poker or so, so that's saying alot!

I found the quitters frustrating, but losing because of a computer crash really puts me on lifetilt and makes me reluctant to play again.

It took me a bit before I realized you were being sarcastic.  I'm actually not sure if KC-Minion dominates Hamlet-Tunnel.  The latter could get a lot of Gold, after all (not only Hamlet triggering, but Minions too), and +Buy to boot.  KC-Minion is probably better (especially after you get some Hamlets too) but I don't know.  Not super clear cut to me.