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Author Topic: Agricola III  (Read 38254 times)

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Watno

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #350 on: May 23, 2013, 12:43:05 pm »

eHalc
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eHalcyon

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #351 on: May 23, 2013, 01:04:28 pm »

And I will still have to cook a veggie to get through the end, losing another point to end at 46.  If ahoppy hadn't stolen the animal spot, it would have been perfect (though mjb still comes out ahead, I think).

If only I had a cheaper Minor Improvement left.  The rest of my hand are passing MIs and one that requires 4 occupations.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #352 on: May 23, 2013, 03:58:05 pm »

Think we can discuss strategy after this?  Since I'm done and I can't really affect anyone anyway, I will just go.

I can't remember all I wanted to do at the start of the game.  I know I wanted to use Braggart at the end but I hadn't really planned on getting both of the ovens.  I know I wanted a Fireplace or a Hearth because they're just so dang useful and they're good for Braggart.  After JR got the early Fireplace I decided to just go straight for a Hearth instead.  It worked out pretty well for me; at least twice I took down a bunch of food by grabbing and immediately slaughtering 3 sheep or 2 boar or something.

I figured Axe and Clay Roof were a strong combination.  I feel like I did not leverage it as well as I could have.  I probably could have set up better to make my first Build Room action a double room, especially since the early single room wasn't even useful -- I was blocked from the early FG I was aiming for.  And then I think it was a mistake for me to build a fifth room at the end; I just really wanted to do a double room action to get the most out of my Axe.  I think it was a mistake because we were really close to having FG w/o room available, and it also made it that much more difficult for me to acquire the resources to renovate.  If I had left it at just 4 rooms, I think I could have finagled my actions to secure the Well, at least one Oven, and probably the Joinery or something.  I was definitely kicking myself when I was finding myself constantly 1 resource short for my plans.

I do wonder if I would have been better off setting up some different things.  In particular, I only made use of Potato Dribber once in this game.  However, I also had Land Agent to get me an early Vegetable.  Might it have been good for me to set that up earlier?  But if I did, I wouldn't have been able to get the Hearth and have early babies. 

My other occupations really were terrible.  I had Maid (1 food per round after I renovate to Clay), Plough Driver (when I have a Stone house, once per round pay 1 food to plow), Master Shepherd (get 3 sheep over next 3 rounds), Quarryman (convert any amount of Stone to 2 food each), Potter (once per Harvest convert 1 Clay to 2 food).  Maid seemed OK except it completely conflicted with Axe.  mjb would have loved this one, surely.  Plough Driver seemed similarly bad; I was not going to renovate so early.  I wanted to play Shepherd but there was never a good time -- I didn't have room to hold more animals and I was too busy doing other things to make room; if I could have just used it for food but every time I needed to I was able to just take animals immediately from the board, which was much better because I got them right away, I didn't have to pay food to get the occ out, and it meant I wasn't leaving the animals for others.  Quarryman and Potter both seemed like a waste of good resources.

The last two Minor Improvements in my hand are Helpful Neighbours and Animal Pen.  I really wanted Animal Pen -- one more MI for Braggart, worth 1VP on its own, and 2 food every round!  But it requires 4 occupations, and that just wasn't going to happen.  Land Agent seemed decent (and I played it so that I could get Clay Roof out) but I wanted to leave Braggart until late... other than that, I could have maybe justified Shepherd.  There was no way I was going to have 4 out early enough for Animal Pen to be worth it.  Helpful Neighbours wasn't useful for Braggart and for most of the game I actually needed the Wood/Clay in its cost more than the Stone/Reed it would grant me.

Maybe I should have tried to get Private Forest out early.  I underestimated how hard it was to get sufficient wood for rooms and fences.  And maybe I should have skipped the early Stable and just saved for Fences; the first Stable wasn't useful at all.

There are probably also a few places where I made a judgement error in what other people were going to do.  Like, maybe I took a space with my first action that nobody would have taken and I would have been able to grab it late anyway.  I could certainly have left Braggart until this last round (though I think by the time I played Braggard in the previous round, there were no useful action spaces left anyway).





ahoppy, sorry for making you last player so often!  Possibly that contributed to your rather low score... what was your plan going in?

JR, why didn't you get your massive baking combo going earlier?  Seems to me that Fireplace/Hearth was not all that useful for you and you should have aimed for a nice Oven.

mjb, I don't even understand what you did.

From what I can recall, Watno just did baking and fencing and it all worked. :P
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AHoppy

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #353 on: May 23, 2013, 04:39:09 pm »

As far as I can remember (It's been a while).  My plan was to do exactly what I did at the start, use the woodcutter and the wood-stone-reed space that is so useful to build the woodfired oven.  Great, great start getting food from grain and whatnot.  I also wanted to use the hedge keeper for cheap fences comboed with the woodcutter, I thought that would be great.  and it would have been, had I grabbed more animals and a fireplace.  I don't know why I didn't do any of that.  Now that I think about it, I should have done more with fences and used my farmer occupation (next time you build fences, you get a boar, every time after that you get a cow).  I think what contributed to my loss:
1: First and foremost playing online over such a long time period.  I just forget what I'm doing.  And what my plan is.  Also, I find it more difficult to remember what everyone else has/is doing so I kind of ignore everyone else.  Which in Agricola, really isn't a good thing.  Especially when you're going last every round.
2: 5 player is quite different from 2 player.  I usually play agricola 2 player (that's all I can convince to play most of the time).  The max I've done is 4, and occasionally 3.  With more people paying attention to everyone becomes much more difficult and the extra actions available really change it.  Like clay is quite hard to come by in 2p, but not here.
3: going last. Ugh :P
4: this is a really crappy excuse, but I've gotten so used to drafting and being able to build a strategy from the start and then knowing exactly what I'm going to do going in.

I hate making these excuses, but there it is...

Jack Rudd

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #354 on: May 23, 2013, 06:02:15 pm »

Fireplace I think I got because the 2-Clay Fireplace is really versatile and doesn't commit me to any one particular strategy. And then I used the free upgrade to a Cooking Hearth when I renovated because, because... well, just because. It doesn't hurt and it can help.
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michaeljb

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #355 on: May 23, 2013, 09:13:46 pm »

mjb, I don't even understand what you did.

Haven't read your whole post yet, and I'll respond to this more later (short version: I made my combo to build rooms for 2C1W my priority, kind of figured out the rest later), but for now I'll just leave this here:

#t=1m00s


Also, JR's turn.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2013, 09:15:38 pm by michaeljb »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #356 on: May 23, 2013, 09:38:36 pm »

I think I could have possibly pulled out a win by sacrificing on earlier move to block you from obtaining a Stone Renovation.  I underestimated how much my own renovation+fences was going to pull in.  Maybe I could have scooped those 3 Stone earlier, even just to let them sit and do nothing (or possibly to feed them to Quarryman, possibly making other moves for food less necessary).  Partially that's because I didn't realize until the start of round 14 that I could fence as much as I did.  I had been planning to grab a cow and a sheep instead... then I realized that grabbing the extra wood before fencing was worth more points than a lone cow.

And really, I didn't think I was in contention.  Thought it was between you and Watno, and just tried to maximize my own points.  Hmm.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #357 on: May 24, 2013, 11:17:53 am »

Hold on, are points from Joinery, Pottery and the Basket thing counted yet? If not, Watno will beat me and I had no chance at the end to overcome mjb, I think.
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #358 on: May 24, 2013, 01:51:51 pm »

Watno
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Centuries later, archaeologists discover the remains of your ancient civilization.

Evidence of thriving towns, Pottery, roads, and a centralized government amaze the startled scientists.

Finally, they come upon a stone tablet, which contains but one mysterious phrase!

'ISOTROPIC WILL RETURN!'

Watno

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #359 on: May 25, 2013, 09:35:23 am »

AHoppy
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AHoppy

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #360 on: May 25, 2013, 01:13:31 pm »

eHalc

Is it time for me to quote that in the taking things out of context thread?

eHalcyon

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #361 on: May 25, 2013, 03:04:33 pm »

Sigh.  I was pretty sad when ahoppy took the animal space.  I had it mapped out that I would take sheep+food and have exactly the 10 I needed.  I know my plan couldn't have gone perfectly, but oh well.

Also, I forgot early in the round that mjb would get points just for having wood.  I was expecting him to try to build some fences with it.  mjb, would you have scooped the 3 wood if I had left it?  I expected you would, but my other thought was that I could grab the sheep+food first and then take wood and reno+fences after (or alternatively, if you had blocked that, I had a contingency plan that was to take reno+MI and then fences, instead of reno+fences and then MI).

Not that it matters in the end, because my 47 would still be behind your 48.
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michaeljb

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #362 on: May 25, 2013, 03:08:52 pm »

Yeah, I was hoping to pick more wood so I could build more fences. In the end, taking 1R or building Fences would have got me the same points, so I decided 1R just so that my cards do more stuff :P

I would have liked to reno+fences, but without enough wood for 2 pastures, the Outhouse was fine for a minor improvement.

Is it time for me to quote that in the taking things out of context thread?
I believe it is that time ;D
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 03:14:55 pm by michaeljb »
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Watno

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #363 on: May 25, 2013, 03:17:42 pm »

Good game and congratz to mjb.

Who's up for a rematch?
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eHalcyon

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #364 on: May 25, 2013, 03:22:52 pm »

I think I am out, for now.

Ah, I really do think now that I should have scooped that 3 Stone. I think it could have won me the game. Would have made it much closer to Watno though.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #365 on: May 25, 2013, 03:24:15 pm »

And good game all! I'm still happy with my reno+fences move that popped me into the lead, if only briefly.  :)
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AHoppy

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #366 on: May 25, 2013, 04:55:07 pm »

I'm up for a rematch.  I need to redeem myself...

AHoppy

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #367 on: May 25, 2013, 04:55:29 pm »

Is it time for me to quote that in the taking things out of context thread?
I believe it is that time ;D
It has been done

michaeljb

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #368 on: May 27, 2013, 01:51:52 pm »

So with Clay Supports (clay rooms cost 2C1W1R) and Thatcher (pay 1 less R for a bunch of things) in hand, I was just gunning for the 2C1W rooms.

Riding Plow and Fruit Tree were very good motivators to get three occupations played. I actually had Academic in hand (does nothing, but counts for 2 occs for prerequisites), but had enough of other occupations I wanted to play.

When I did all my room building, I regretted not taking 6C first, as I was hoping to take the Pottery for points and Food, but then I think the next round Watno got the Ceramics out, and Pottery soon after, so I didn't actually lose anything by not getting the 6C. I had, however, already played Clay Deliveryman, which turned out to be basically useless (only used 1C that it gave me), would have been much better off playing Charcoal Burner (whenever anyone builds an improvement that can bake, I get 1 Wood and 1 Food).

So anyway, early game, my one priority was rooms, then once I had those, family growth, and I was able to use the Mendicant to ignore Food for a moment to help build my family faster and get to the major improvements that ended up being my Food source. Between the Joinery, Basketmaker's Workshop, and my Berry Picker Occ, the Reed, Stone, Wood space was pretty awesome for me.

I think if eHalc had denied me Stone and kept me from renovating, he would have had the win. It was a good game, close finish, and I'm very glad to have drawn that awesome cheap clay room combo :P

PS I think aHoppy's "excuses" are fair, especially 2 and 3, and I think I'm suffering from 1 in Puerto Rico II...
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 01:52:59 pm by michaeljb »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #369 on: May 27, 2013, 03:37:39 pm »

The main reason I didn't deny the stone was that I thought it was mostly a race between you and Watno and I didn't want to kingmake.  I underestimated how much I could catch up between renovation and fences.

ahoppy's excuses are fair, certainly.  FWIW, I keep a little sticky note on my (Windows) desktop with general plans and priorities.  I usually checked what others had done before making my move, too.
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #370 on: May 28, 2013, 09:11:26 am »

I'm up for a rematch. Draft this time?
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Centuries later, archaeologists discover the remains of your ancient civilization.

Evidence of thriving towns, Pottery, roads, and a centralized government amaze the startled scientists.

Finally, they come upon a stone tablet, which contains but one mysterious phrase!

'ISOTROPIC WILL RETURN!'

Watno

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #371 on: May 28, 2013, 01:18:42 pm »

michael, are you in for the rematch as well?
Should we look for others to fill up or just go with 3/4?
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michaeljb

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #372 on: May 28, 2013, 01:40:13 pm »

Yeah I'll do a rematch with drafting. Does anyone else want to set it up on the site?
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Watno

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #373 on: May 28, 2013, 01:52:45 pm »

Well, since eHalc isn't playing, we need to decide wether to look for a 5th player first, as well as which sets were gonna use.
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AHoppy

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Re: Agricola III
« Reply #374 on: May 29, 2013, 01:26:35 pm »

I can set up the new game if you guys want. I'll do it when I get home from work. I'm fine with any number of players, so if you can find a 5th, fine. I'll set it up with all decks, tournament, draft. Sound good?
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