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[SirPeebles]

"get more out of them by paying extra for them"

This is slightly puzzling and good for speculation! I'm guessing that if there are cards that provide a token to spend later, the expensive version of the card will come with that token, or even two or three tokens. On buy effects look likely but a lot of those were surely in hinterlands. Perhaps there could be some mint variant where you can trash more or gain more.

Since Dark Ages had card supplies containing differing cards it is plausible to have differently costed cards in the same supply pile, but I'm guessing this would cause too many rule problems for card gains, ordering of supply piles, band of misfits, and so on.

I'm sticking to my theory that "pay extra" uses tokens during your action phase to enhance the card. As you said "when-buy" is a Hintedlands thing. I don't see that as the way Guilds will work.

But that just doesn't work grammatically.  You pay extra for them, with them referring to the cards. There isn't even a grammatical ambiguity, as there could have been with "cards which have special effects if you pay extra for them", where them could have referred either to cards or to effects.  Maybe you could argue to that them refers to more, but that seems rather clunky to me.

[ednever]

Village Guild, $2
+1 card, +1 action
When you buy this you may pay up to $2 more. Gain a Guild Token for every $ spent. While this is in the supply you may return a Guild token at any time to gain +1 action.

Smithy Guild, $3
+2 cards
When you buy this you may pay up to $2 more. Gain a Guild Token for every $ spent. While this is in the supply you may return a Guild token at any time to gain +1 card.

Merchant Guild, $3
+2$
When you buy this you may pay up to $2 more. Gain a Guild Token for every $ spent. While this is in the supply you may return a Guild token at any time to gain +1$.

Monk, $2
You may trash 2 cards in hand or discard
When you buy this you may pay up to $2 more. For every additional $ spent, trash a card in hand.

Swordsman Guild, $3
+1$, every other player discards down to four cards
When you buy this you may pay up to $2 more. Gain a Guild Token for every $ spent. While this is in the supply you may return a Guild token during your action phase to have other players discard down to 3 cards in hand (or discard 2 cards?)

Witch's Guild, $4
+2 cards
When you buy this you may pay up to $2 extra. For every $ you spend gain a Guild token and every other player gains a curse. While this is in the supply you may return a guild token during your action phase, if you do all other players gain a curse. You may only return one token per turn.

Woodcutter's Guild, $2
+$1, +1 buy
When you buy this you may pay up to $2 more. Gain a Guild Token for every $ spent. While this is in the supply you may return a Guild token at any time to gain +1 buy.

-----
Issues:
When more than one guild card is in the supply you could buy the cheaper one but then use the tokens for the better effects (ie buy a monk, but then use the tokens to hit people with curses).
There are likely easy fixes for this, like making you play the card to use the tokens, or in making the card effects themselves (without using tokens) match their cost a little better.

Thoughts?

Ed

[LastFootnote]

I'm sticking to my theory that "pay extra" uses tokens during your action phase to enhance the card. As you said "when-buy" is a Hintedlands thing. I don't see that as the way Guilds will work.

But that just doesn't work grammatically.  You pay extra for them, with them referring to the cards. There isn't even a grammatical ambiguity, as there could have been with "cards which have special effects if you pay extra for them", where them could have referred either to cards or to effects.  Maybe you could argue to that them refers to more, but that seems rather clunky to me.

Agreed. I'm expecting at most one card that allows you to spend coin tokens when you play it. I'm hoping that coin tokens are primarily used to give you coins during your buy phase, which is the most intuitive use for coin tokens I can imagine.

As for paying extra when you buy a card being too similar to Hinterlands, I'm guessing the effects will be cool things that couldn't be done without the pay-extra mechanic and will be unique and interesting enough that people won't be complaining. Even if there are just more on-buy effects, sweet! Hinterlands is my favorite set!

[enfynet]

I think the description text is ambiguous on purpose. Anything beyond what it currently says is a literal description of the cards themselves.

[SirPeebles]

I think the description text is ambiguous on purpose. Anything beyond what it currently says is a literal description of the cards themselves.

It's not ambiguous on purpose.  It's not written with speculating dominion fanatics like us in mind.  Probably most of the people who read that line are going to be reading it after the expansion has been released.  This isn't a teaser, it's RGG's official product description to give customers that quick one or two line explanation of what makes this expansion special.

[enfynet]

But it also doesn't say "when you buy them" either. Just that at some time you pay more for something to happen.

[LastFootnote]

But it also doesn't say "when you buy them" either. Just that at some time you pay more for something to happen.

You're thinking about this backwards. If the mechanic was tokens that you could use to boost the effect of cards, the text would say that in a more concise fashion. If the mechanic was cards that you get more out of by spending more when you buy them, it would say, "cards you can get more out of by paying extra for them". Which it does.

[SirPeebles]

"It has coin tokens that you can save to spend later, and cards you can get more out of by paying extra for them."

I really can't see any interpretation of this sentence in which "them" has an antecedent other than "cards", except for possibly "tokens".  Maybe you get more out of the cards by paying extra for the coin tokens?  That doesn't seem right to me.

Now, you are right that you don't necessarily pay the full cost when you buy the card.  Maybe the guilds sell their wares infomercial style:  "but wait, there's more!  if you buy Smithy now for just three easy payments of $3, we'll throw in not one but two Villages absolutely free!"

[werothegreat]

Nomad Cutter
$3 - Action

+1 Buy, +$2

------

When you buy this, you may pay $1 extra.  If you do, once you gain it, put it on top of your deck.

[enfynet]

Based on the complexity that was hinted at, I don't see how the buy phase will be the only time these cards have those bonuses. Again, that is just Hinterlands+ and not really something "new" to the game.

Maybe it's because I keep thinking back to the original Witch that "cost" $1 to give out curses. So you buy the card, then you "pay extra" when you play it to "get more out of it" or something along those lines.

When-buy and When-gain have been done dozens of times already, so there's no added complexity there. Besides, if it is when-buy then everything will be a one-shot.

[clb]

Perhaps something akin to Pirate Ship? You either gain a Token or give out X Curses for YX Tokens?

[LastFootnote]

Based on the complexity that was hinted at, I don't see how the buy phase will be the only time these cards have those bonuses. Again, that is just Hinterlands+ and not really something "new" to the game.

Maybe it's because I keep thinking back to the original Witch that "cost" $1 to give out curses. So you buy the card, then you "pay extra" when you play it to "get more out of it" or something along those lines.

The "pay $ for effects" mechanic was attempted in Prosperity, but left. I really doubt we're going to see it now. As I said, there may be a card that both gets and uses coin tokens, but I don't think it's going to be a recurring mechanic in the set.

When-buy and When-gain have been done dozens of times already, so there's no added complexity there. Besides, if it is when-buy then everything will be a one-shot.

Oh ye of little faith. Guilds is a 13 card set with two mechanics. There are likely to be only 3 to 5 cards that have the "optionally spend more when you buy them" mechanic. I'd say that's few enough cards that we'll see this mechanic used in multiple unique and interesting ways.

[ednever]

Witch for hire, $4
+2 cards
You may spend up to 2 tokens. for each token you spend, give every other player a curse.
---
When you buy this, or when it is in play, you may spend $1 to buy token

///:::///

Ed

[Morgrim7]

Looters Guild
$1 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
For each extra $2 you pay for this, each other player gains a Ruins.

[StrongRhino]

Looters Guild
$1 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
For each extra $2 you pay for this, each other player gains a Ruins.

But ruins are only in Dark Ages...

[SirPeebles]

Looters Guild
$1 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
For each extra $2 you pay for this, each other player gains a Ruins.

But ruins are only in Dark Ages...

Well then make it a Duration card so that the Ruins stay out for one more expansion.

[werothegreat]

Looters Guild
$1 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
For each extra $2 you pay for this, each other player gains a Ruins.

But ruins are only in Dark Ages...

Well then make it a Duration card so that the Ruins stay out for one more expansion.

Make it an Action-Victory-Duration-Looter with an on-gain ability that gives out Victory tokens and Prizes.

[SirPeebles]

Looters Guild
$1 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
For each extra $2 you pay for this, each other player gains a Ruins.

But ruins are only in Dark Ages...

Well then make it a Duration card so that the Ruins stay out for one more expansion.

Make it an Action-Victory-Duration-Looter with an on-gain ability that gives out Victory tokens and Prizes.

You should make it a Knight too.  That way we won't know if we need to dig out the Ruins and Prizes at first.

[achmed_sender]

Looters Guild
$1 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
For each extra $2 you pay for this, each other player gains a Ruins.

But ruins are only in Dark Ages...

Well then make it a Duration card so that the Ruins stay out for one more expansion.

Make it an Action-Victory-Duration-Looter with an on-gain ability that gives out Victory tokens and Prizes.

You should make it a Knight too.  That way we won't know if we need to dig out the Ruins and Prizes at first.

I think it also need to cost a potion 

[Stealth Tomato]

Looters Guild
$1 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
For each extra $2 you pay for this, each other player gains a Ruins.

But ruins are only in Dark Ages...

Well then make it a Duration card so that the Ruins stay out for one more expansion.

Make it an Action-Victory-Duration-Looter with an on-gain ability that gives out Victory tokens and Prizes.

You should make it a Knight too.  That way we won't know if we need to dig out the Ruins and Prizes at first.

I think it also need to cost a potion 

Can it also involve the Black Market deck?


Ill Young Sir Hermblacktournumarbles
$5P
Action-Attack-Knight-Victory-Duration-Looter

2 VP

When you gain this, look through your discard pile. You may reveal a Colony from your discard pile or hand. If you do, shuffle it into your deck and reveal the top 3 cards of the Black Market deck. You may gain one of these or a Prize (from the Prize pile), putting it on top of your deck. Put the ungained cards from the Black Market deck on the bottom of the Black Market deck in any order.  If you gain nothing, each opponent gains a Curse.

+1 VP

Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck, trashes one of them costing from $3 to $6, and discards the rest. If a Knight is trashed by this, trash this card.

At the beginning of your next turn, gain a Spoils from the Spoils pile. Each other player may reveal a Bane card from his hand. If he doesn’t, he gains a Ruins.

When you trash this, gain a Madman from the Madman pile.

Setup: Add an extra Kingdom card pile costing 2 or 3 to the Supply. Cards from that pile are Bane cards.

(Before the game, make a Black Market deck out of one copy of each Kingdom card not in the supply.)

[Awaclus]

Looters Guild
$1 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
For each extra $2 you pay for this, each other player gains a Ruins.

But ruins are only in Dark Ages...

Well then make it a Duration card so that the Ruins stay out for one more expansion.

Make it an Action-Victory-Duration-Looter with an on-gain ability that gives out Victory tokens and Prizes.

You should make it a Knight too.  That way we won't know if we need to dig out the Ruins and Prizes at first.

I think it also need to cost a potion 

Can it also involve the Black Market deck?


Ill Young Sir Hermblacktournumarbles
$5P
Action-Victory-Duration-Looter-Knight

2 VP

When you gain this, look through your discard pile. You may reveal a Colony from your discard pile or hand. If you do, shuffle it into your deck and reveal the top 3 cards of the Black Market deck. You may gain one of these or a Prize (from the Prize pile), putting it on top of your deck. Put the ungained cards from the Black Market deck on the bottom of the Black Market deck in any order.  If you gain nothing, each opponent gains a Curse.

+1 VP

Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck, trashes one of them costing from $3 to $6, and discards the rest. If a Knight is trashed by this, trash this card.

At the beginning of your next turn, gain a Spoils from the Spoils pile. Each other player may reveal a Bane card from his hand. If he doesn’t, he gains a Ruins.

When you trash this, gain a Madman from the Madman pile.

Setup: Add an extra Kingdom card pile costing 2 or 3 to the Supply. Cards from that pile are Bane cards.

(Before the game, make a Black Market deck out of one copy of each Kingdom card not in the supply.)

It should be an Attack.

[Stealth Tomato]

It should be an Attack.

Damn it.

Made a few edits, including adding "Attack" and reordering the types to match previously-released cards.

[SirPeebles]

Ill Young Sir Hermblacktournumarbles

You'd need to use a rather small font, or else you may lose your marbles.

[werothegreat]

Looters Guild
$1 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
For each extra $2 you pay for this, each other player gains a Ruins.

But ruins are only in Dark Ages...

Well then make it a Duration card so that the Ruins stay out for one more expansion.

Make it an Action-Victory-Duration-Looter with an on-gain ability that gives out Victory tokens and Prizes.

You should make it a Knight too.  That way we won't know if we need to dig out the Ruins and Prizes at first.

I think it also need to cost a potion 

Dammit!  I meant to say that.

[enfynet]

Ill Young Sir Hermblacktournumarbles

You'd need to use a rather small font, or else you may lose your marbles.

Maybe just name the card "Marbles"