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[SirPeebles]

A Duchy that top decks itself is totally worth $6.

A Duchy that topdecks itself is worth $4.  Maybe $2P.

Is a top decking Vineyard worth $-1P or $-3PP ?

[LastFootnote]

A Duchy that top decks itself is totally worth $6.

A Duchy that topdecks itself is worth $4.  Maybe $2P.

Ugh. A potion is not worth $2.5. It's a different cost scale.

[Watno]

I told you so. A Duchy that topdecks itself is worth $4, especially if you can pay $2 additionally to make it not topdeck itself. 

[shMerker]

Why wouldn't you just buy a duchy then?

[LastFootnote]

Why wouldn't you just buy a duchy then?

You would.

[shMerker]

That's not a contrived edge case. What has happened to F.DS?

[Morgrim7]

I dont think there is an edge case for paying $6 for a Duchy instead of $5.

[eHalcyon]

I dont think there is an edge case for paying $6 for a Duchy instead of $5.

But you're not paying $6 for a Duchy; you are paying $6 for a different card (which Watno had named Turnpike) with *almost* the same effect as Duchy.  So we have all the usual edge cases:

- for diversity (with Menagerie, Harvest, Fairgrounds)
- to control 3 pile ending (either you don't want Duchy to empty or you want Turnpike to empty, which should be easier because you could also pay $4 for it)

And more specific to Turnpike itself:

- you can gain Duchies through another means (e.g. Altar) whereas you'd rather not have to topdeck this card
- your opponent will smuggle the card you gain; smuggling Turnpike would either cause it to be topdecked or force him to pay virtual coin
- price point for Forge (you have the extra money now so you don't mind paying $6, but the regular $4 cost is more useful for Forging should you have that opportunity)
- you are gaining Turnpike via Workshop/Ironworks/Armory (for which you could still pay $2 in virtual coin to keep it from topdecking)

[ConMan]

Actually, that raises an interesting point - I assume that for all intents and purposes the printed cost is the cost, and the "spend extra" is an effect that can only happen on-buy, so for cost-dependent gainers (including Smugglers) you'll never get to use the "spend extra", which may devalue them. Also, possible "If you spend $2 more, gain a cheaper card"?

[cluckyb]

So Nomad camp established that top decking a card is worth $1

You so... cannot generalize that. Topdecking things like king court or madman might be worth way more. And also don't forget that woodcutter is crappy, and nomad camp is decent.

Obviously it fluctuates depending on the card. No one is suggesting making every card be topped decked just paying +1. But like, woodcutter is a fairly 'average' card in the sense that its run of the mill, basic bonuses and it got top decking added for +1, and I think for most other basic cards (i.e. < 6 cost) people would often pay 1 to top deck but probably not 2 unless they had money to burn or a handful of occasions where everything lined up.

[eHalcyon]

So Nomad camp established that top decking a card is worth $1

You so... cannot generalize that. Topdecking things like king court or madman might be worth way more. And also don't forget that woodcutter is crappy, and nomad camp is decent.

Obviously it fluctuates depending on the card. No one is suggesting making every card be topped decked just paying +1. But like, woodcutter is a fairly 'average' card in the sense that its run of the mill, basic bonuses and it got top decking added for +1, and I think for most other basic cards (i.e. < 6 cost) people would often pay 1 to top deck but probably not 2 unless they had money to burn or a handful of occasions where everything lined up.

A Duchy that top decks itself is totally worth $6.

[cactus]

Why wouldn't you just buy a duchy then?

You would.

Turnpike could replace Duchy for any games where Turnpike is in - if Turnpike is in, Duchy is out. That would change the dynamic a bit. Obviously you wouldn't want it for every game of Dominion you played but just once in a while a game with Turnpikes instead of Duchies should be OK....

[Awaclus]

Why wouldn't you just buy a duchy then?

You would.

Turnpike could replace Duchy for any games where Turnpike is in - if Turnpike is in, Duchy is out. That would change the dynamic a bit. Obviously you wouldn't want it for every game of Dominion you played but just once in a while a game with Turnpikes instead of Duchies should be OK....

Then the type should be Victory - Duchy, because of Duke and Transmute and others.

[NoMoreFun]

A lot of the potential effects seem like hinterlands outtakes.

For each extra $1 you spend:
*Gain a silver
*Look at a card from the top of your deck. Either discard it or put it back
*You may trash a card from your hand
*Gain a coin token
*Draw a card

The effects can be reversed as well for paying less than the list price.

[NoMoreFun]

Change
Treasure - $4
Worth $1
When you play this, trash a card from your hand. You may pay any cost, X to gain a card costing X more than the trashed card.

[Morgrim7]

I think it should be "discard treasures thats combined worth add up to X" instead of just, "pay".

[DG]

"get more out of them by paying extra for them"

This is slightly puzzling and good for speculation! I'm guessing that if there are cards that provide a token to spend later, the expensive version of the card will come with that token, or even two or three tokens. On buy effects look likely but a lot of those were surely in hinterlands. Perhaps there could be some mint variant where you can trash more or gain more.

Since Dark Ages had card supplies containing differing cards it is plausible to have differently costed cards in the same supply pile, but I'm guessing this would cause too many rule problems for card gains, ordering of supply piles, band of misfits, and so on.

[Stealth Tomato]

I told you so. A Duchy that topdecks itself is worth $4, especially if you can pay $2 additionally to make it not topdeck itself.

I extra-like this joke because he didn't get it.

On a side note, I just realized that Turnpike can be Ironworked, at which point you immediately draw it. That's strong.

[NoMoreFun]

I think it should be "discard treasures thats combined worth add up to X" instead of just, "pay".

Treasures don't have set worth. With treasures, you can "pay" from your virtual money without missing out on anything.

[Morgrim7]

I think it should be "discard treasures thats combined worth add up to X" instead of just, "pay".

Treasures don't have set worth. With treasures, you can "pay" from your virtual money without missing out on anything.

Yes they do. Bank is worth zero, no treasures in play (excepting BM). PhilStone is worth…well…how much it would normally be worth like all cards.

[ftl]

Bank says "When you play this, it is worth $1 per treasure card you have in play". It does not say what it's worth otherwise, if you don't play it. Same with Philosopher's stone; it says "When you play this, count your deck and discard... it's worth 1 per 5 cards between them." I guess technically it's still worth the same amount, but if you don't play it, you don't get to count your deck and discard and see how much it's actually worth?

Man, I guess those issues could be resolved somehow if DXV really wanted to, but why add in an extra thing?

If you need to use treasures in your hand for a card ability, then might as well use their cost, which is roughly correlated with how much the treasure would be worth if you played it and doesn't have any confusion with Bank, PStone, and other treasures which do stuff when played.

[Morgrim7]

I suppose you are right. Maybe after you play them, discard them from play? But i guess thats too complicated.

[ConMan]

Postal Service - Action - $4
---
While this is in play, when you buy a card you may spend half its cost in coins, rounded down. If you do, when you gain that card put it on top of your deck.

(I can see approximately 14 problems with that already, 3 of which involve Bridge.)

[Morgrim7]

Omg what CC could do with this!

[enfynet]

"get more out of them by paying extra for them"

This is slightly puzzling and good for speculation! I'm guessing that if there are cards that provide a token to spend later, the expensive version of the card will come with that token, or even two or three tokens. On buy effects look likely but a lot of those were surely in hinterlands. Perhaps there could be some mint variant where you can trash more or gain more.

Since Dark Ages had card supplies containing differing cards it is plausible to have differently costed cards in the same supply pile, but I'm guessing this would cause too many rule problems for card gains, ordering of supply piles, band of misfits, and so on.

I'm sticking to my theory that "pay extra" uses tokens during your action phase to enhance the card. As you said "when-buy" is a Hintedlands thing. I don't see that as the way Guilds will work.