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Author Topic: Time allocated to players  (Read 8609 times)

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JimKam

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Time allocated to players
« on: March 31, 2013, 06:03:03 am »
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I won a game in grim situation by timing out my opponent.

So how many time are allocated to each player?

And can we have a clock to show how much time we have?
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Awaclus

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Re: Time allocated to players
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2013, 07:40:03 am »
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I don't think it's a good idea to tell players how much time they have, and it's even worse to have a clock. That would result in people who are about to lose a game sometimes taking the maximum time they are allowed with each choice, hoping that their opponent would quit.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Time allocated to players
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2013, 10:20:19 am »
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I'm pretty sure there is no time limit.
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palangus

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Re: Time allocated to players
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2013, 11:03:23 am »
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That's a pretty dick way to win, unless your opponent was purposely taking a long time just to piss you off.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Time allocated to players
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2013, 11:05:05 am »
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That's a pretty dick way to win

It's more of a dick way to lose.
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palangus

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Re: Time allocated to players
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2013, 11:08:06 am »
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That's a pretty dick way to win

It's more of a dick way to lose.

Hence the second half of my sentence.

OP said they were in a grim situation, which makes me think their opponent probably wasn't being a dick but had an actual reason to be delayed.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Time allocated to players
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2013, 11:23:11 am »
+1

If your opponent's been too long you get the option to force them to resign. If it would be "grim" for you to win that way, don't click the option and wait for your opponent to return. Personally, I will always take the opportunity because if I've been waiting 3-5 minutes (I don't know the exact timing) for my opponent and they've done nothing, as far as I'm concerned they are no longer interested in the game and I have better things to do with my time than wait for someone who doesn't care.
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popsofctown

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Re: Time allocated to players
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2013, 11:25:33 am »
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What if they are staring at the screen for 3 minutes, pondering their next move?
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Awaclus

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Re: Time allocated to players
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2013, 11:32:36 am »
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What if they are staring at the screen for 3 minutes, pondering their next move?
They should say "thinking" or something to signal that they're actually there.

I had a game just recently in which I was one click away from winning the game and my sister's 1-year-old son decided to shut my computer down without a warning. I restarted and made it in time, but more than I felt good for winning the game, I felt bad for making my opponent wait and it most certainly wouldn't have been my opponent who I would've been angry at if I had been forced to resign, but my parents who were keeping an eye on the kid and apparently couldn't have cared less about whatever unsaved work I could have had.

Waiting is boring as hell and I have always forced and will continue to force all of my opponents to resign as soon as it's possible, unless it happens so fast it's obviously a bug or my opponent has told me in the chat that he hasn't stopped playing even though for any reason he's taking a while (and expect the same thing to be done to me). Otherwise, for all I know, my opponent could have just decided to stop playing, could be experiencing a blackout, could have had a heart attack or whatever - that's going to be an eternal wait for me and in any of these cases, his primary concern wouldn't probably be winning a single funny game on Isotropic. And this is an especially good reason to force resigns because the first of my sample reasons for being silent is probably extremely common.

Also, while I believe that nobody would be actually doing it anyway, it's a good thing that you can't just come here and read a long and detailed strategy guide during a game without the fear of being forced to resign. Checking the opening guide or something small like that is still possible, though, but I don't think that's a big problem.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 11:49:31 am by Awaclus »
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Kirian

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Re: Time allocated to players
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2013, 12:07:42 pm »
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Since no one answered the original question, the answer is three minutes after the last move made.  After that, the force opponent to resign option becomes available.

If you're taking a long time, you should say something in chat.  If your opponent hasn't done so, you should certainly use the force resign option.
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carstimon

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Re: Time allocated to players
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2013, 12:21:01 pm »
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I think that the timer goes down as well.  Once someone was taking a long time but I knew why so I didn't make them quit.  Once they started playing again I got the option much quicker.
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popsofctown

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Re: Time allocated to players
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2013, 04:42:34 pm »
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What if they are staring at the screen for 3 minutes, pondering their next move?
They should say "thinking" or something to signal that they're actually there.

When should they say that?  At what point?  We've just argued that the amount of time remaining before force resign becomes available should NOT be displayed, so a player who is thinking hard does NOT know when he needs to say "thinking". 

If you type in chat, "hey, still there?", and wait 15 seconds, and get nothing, then sure, resign your opponent.  But assuming your opponent is afk just because your opponent took a chess move's amount of time picking between his 30 options is a very flawed assumption, and perhaps suspiciously self-serving
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: Time allocated to players
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2013, 04:47:13 pm »
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What if they are staring at the screen for 3 minutes, pondering their next move?
They should say "thinking" or something to signal that they're actually there.

When should they say that?  At what point?

When they realise they have a tough decision that could take them 3 minutes+ to make.
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rrenaud

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Re: Time allocated to players
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2013, 04:51:00 pm »
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I disagree.  Let's make player time a visible resource to be managed.  Online poker figured this out well.  You have something like 30 seconds per decision, and an extra 'overtime' budget that dwindles after your turns take longer than 30 seconds.  It seems like a great solution to me.
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florrat

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Re: Time allocated to players
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2013, 06:03:35 pm »
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I agree with popsofctown that it's polite to say something before you make your opponents resign. Usually I already ask something if my opponent takes something like 2 minutes, so if they don't answer, I can let them resign immediately when the option becomes available.

But then again, today I had a game where my opponent was unable to move for just under 3 minutes by bad internet connection, and I'm glad he managed to send a chat message just before the resign option appeared, so that I knew he was still there. So sometimes I just browse this forum for a few more minutes before I let my opponent resign, in case they'll come back.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 06:05:03 pm by florrat »
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popsofctown

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Re: Time allocated to players
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2013, 06:54:31 pm »
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What if they are staring at the screen for 3 minutes, pondering their next move?
They should say "thinking" or something to signal that they're actually there.

When should they say that?  At what point?

When they realise they have a tough decision that could take them 3 minutes+ to make.

Well, taking your condition literally, if I lose track of time and keep finding new complexities to my decision that I didn't see before, I could not realize that I "have a tough decision that could take me longer than 3+ minutes to make" after five minutes.

I'm not going to click a stopwatch on myself just because you're too lazy or rude to type a few characters into chat and check if I'm there.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Time allocated to players
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2013, 07:37:38 pm »
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Since no one answered the original question, the answer is three minutes after the last move made.  After that, the force opponent to resign option becomes available.

If you're taking a long time, you should say something in chat.  If your opponent hasn't done so, you should certainly use the force resign option.

I can't tell if you're joking or if maybe this is something unique to doug's implementation on isotropic, because I'm not seeing anything about time limits in the published rules.  The game doesn't even come with a timer.
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florrat

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Re: Time allocated to players
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2013, 07:49:11 pm »
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I can't tell if you're joking or if maybe this is something unique to doug's implementation on isotropic, because I'm not seeing anything about time limits in the published rules.  The game doesn't even come with a timer.
On isotropic, if your opponent doesn't take any in-game action for three minutes, a text appears which - if clicked - forces your opponent to resign. So this is something unique to doug's implementation on isotropic.

I'm confused you don't seem to know this, because this was also true for dominion on isotropic...
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popsofctown

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Re: Time allocated to players
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2013, 07:57:06 pm »
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I disagree.  Let's make player time a visible resource to be managed.  Online poker figured this out well.  You have something like 30 seconds per decision, and an extra 'overtime' budget that dwindles after your turns take longer than 30 seconds.  It seems like a great solution to me.

I am absolutely fine with that, and would in fact prefer that.  But I am saying, with it the way it is, the sporting thing to do is to not force resign your opponent until you've made a reasonable effort to ascertain that they are afk.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Time allocated to players
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2013, 08:06:43 pm »
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I can't tell if you're joking or if maybe this is something unique to doug's implementation on isotropic, because I'm not seeing anything about time limits in the published rules.  The game doesn't even come with a timer.
On isotropic, if your opponent doesn't take any in-game action for three minutes, a text appears which - if clicked - forces your opponent to resign. So this is something unique to doug's implementation on isotropic.

I'm confused you don't seem to know this, because this was also true for dominion on isotropic...

Ah, we don't have a separate board for isotropic discussion (under the innovation heading).  That's where I was really confused.  This was posted in the general discussion section with no reference by the OP to isotropic, so it looked to me like the OP was asking a rules question, and not about a quirk of a particular online implementation.

Edit:  I never played much Dominion on isotropic either, especially once Goko's beta went public.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 08:08:56 pm by SirPeebles »
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Kirian

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Re: Time allocated to players
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2013, 08:09:25 pm »
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I can't tell if you're joking or if maybe this is something unique to doug's implementation on isotropic, because I'm not seeing anything about time limits in the published rules.  The game doesn't even come with a timer.
On isotropic, if your opponent doesn't take any in-game action for three minutes, a text appears which - if clicked - forces your opponent to resign. So this is something unique to doug's implementation on isotropic.

I'm confused you don't seem to know this, because this was also true for dominion on isotropic...

I had thought that "say something in chat" and "force resign option appears" implied something that was not a face to face game...
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Razzishi

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Re: Time allocated to players
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2013, 10:39:29 pm »
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Time allowed before the force resign dialog comes up does dwindle as you continue to play at a reasonable pace.  There was one particular game where I had the dialog come up almost every single turn, almost immediately, and while the game was slowly falling out of my grasp I managed to resist the urge to make my opponent resign since they had finally started to pick up their place of play a bit.  It was a very complex game and we both were rather new, so it didn't bother me too much.
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eyhung

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Re: Time allocated to players
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2013, 02:37:05 am »
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I'm fine with letting you resign your opponent after a certain period of time, but the server should also let you know that you are about to enter a state where the opponent can resign you.  (Say, a 15 second warning displayed to the user saying "You are taking a while.  In 15 seconds, your opponent will be given the option to force you to resign.)
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dondon151

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Re: Time allocated to players
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2013, 02:50:19 am »
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Well, taking your condition literally, if I lose track of time and keep finding new complexities to my decision that I didn't see before, I could not realize that I "have a tough decision that could take me longer than 3+ minutes to make" after five minutes.

I'm not going to click a stopwatch on myself just because you're too lazy or rude to type a few characters into chat and check if I'm there.

I think quite often (on Dominion Iso) and don't have any problems communicating that to my opponent. The obligation of who figures out how long a turn is going to take should fall on the player taking that turn, not on the player waiting for his opponent to finish.

Honestly, when in doubt, just type "thinking" at the start of your turn. This has the dual benefit of making it more likely that your opponent will ask if you are there if he gets impatient.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 02:55:33 am by dondon151 »
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teasel

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Re: Time allocated to players
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2013, 08:18:45 am »
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can we please shorten the time required for each move or at least put a fast-play mode? i'm sick of people deliberately taking 1-2 minutes each move,i mean if you are new to the game and need time to read the card or understand how things work i understand... if you are playing echoes,using lever and then taking a minute to discard 2 cards to draw higher,you are doing it on purpouse



« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 08:29:37 am by teasel »
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