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[GendoIkari]

I'd like to see another "if this is the first time you played ____ this turn", like Crossroads. I've seen a couple fan cards that use this. It's interesting that it was used on Crossroads, a $2 card with a not-all-that-powerful effect. The "once per turn" aspect of it means that you could use this to make really powerful effects. Kind of like how one-shots can be more powerful, but probably a different type of powerful. With the right deck, you could still play this every turn... but you wouldn't want to load up on them. I think it would lead to a lot of interesting decisions about how many to buy.

[Ozle]

$2
Action - Reaction
+2 Cards
+1 Buy

When another plays an attack card you may reveal this from your hand.
If you do, you are unaffected by that attack

[Axxle]

I was curious the other day and wanted to see Ozle's first post in the forum. It explains so much:

I have gone moat.

Its a waste of a card and I think I have only ever bought it once.

On topic: I would like to see a use of the pay more for this card mechanic that differentiates itself from hinterlands on buy mechanic.

[werothegreat]

I think we're all expecting a card that gives out Curses if you overpay for it, but I think that's a little too similar to IGG.

[Ozle]

I was curious the other day and wanted to see Ozle's first post in the forum. It explains so much:

I have gone moat.

Its a waste of a card and I think I have only ever bought it once.

My first post under this username....

[liopoil]

oh hey, moat is my least favorite card too! but instead of adding a +buy, I think it should be:

toll moat - $2

+2 cards
+1 coin token, which can be spent at any time

when a player plays an attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, you are unaffected by that attack.

... to fit with the theme of guilds.

but really, I pretty much never buy moat. watchtower is almost always wayyyy better..... and only costs one more. watchtower draws at least 2 cards (edgecase: CR, Governor), is actually better than a moat against cursers (trashes the curse, lowering the pile. this isn't always good though.) It lets you draw the cards back against discard attacks, and also has cool top decking powers. (also, goons and DA cards w/on-trash effects.

But I guess watchtower isn't always in the kingdom... still, I hate moat.

[ftl]

Moat is much, much better in 3p and 4p.

[liopoil]

hmmm, I don't play much 3 and 4 player..... could have something to do with it.

[Ozle]

I do, almost exclusively, and i still hate it!

[Morgrim7]

Completely random, but I want a "draw up to X" with +action(s).

[werothegreat]

Completely random, but I want a "draw up to X" with +action(s).

Again, you mean Minion?

[Morgrim7]

Completely random, but I want a "draw up to X" with +action(s).

Again, you mean Minion?

No. Like Library/Watchtower (and Joat, i suppose).

[Axxle]

Completely random, but I want a "draw up to X" with +action(s).

Again, you mean Minion?

No. Like Library/Watchtower (and Joat, i suppose).

Archivist?

[Morgrim7]

Completely random, but I want a "draw up to X" with +action(s).

Again, you mean Minion?

No. Like Library/Watchtower (and Joat, i suppose).

Archivist?

Never played with Archivist. Has some secret expansion been released?

[michaeljb]

It was a card rinkworks made that won a design contest someone (Davio I think?) here hosted, and dougz even put it on Iso for a little bit.

If memory serves:

Archivist - $5

+1 Action

Choose one: draw until you have 6 cards in your hand, or +$1 and discard any number of cards.

[Morgrim7]

It isnt official.

[Titandrake]

I'm hoping one of the following cards is word-for-word in Guilds.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=843

[werothegreat]

That's some impressive clairvoyance there, particularly combining both of the upcoming mechanics.

[bedlam]

How about a Tac enabler like "when you play this you may play up to 2 treasures from your hand, then continue your action phase"

Tac would be better, it would work well with things like draw to x cards, and minion (your decision to discard your hand would be easier)...

[Brando Commando]

How about a Tac enabler like "when you play this you may play up to 2 treasures from your hand, then continue your action phase"

Tac would be better, it would work well with things like draw to x cards, and minion (your decision to discard your hand would be easier)...

Yeah, I think there are some really fun shenanigans to be had with playing treasures before your buy phase which I'd like to see available sometimes even when Black Market isn't out.

Also, what Mogrim said about "draw to X" cards. For whatever reason, my favorite engines are something like fishing village/festival for actions and library/JoaT/watchtower for draw.

[NoMoreFun]

Frontier Village:
Action: $4*
+2 Actions
+1 Card
---
When you buy this, you may pay any amount more than $4. Gain a Silver for every extra $1 you spend.

[NoMoreFun]

Hearing that there were no non kingdom cards was a bit of a downer, so I hope that there are several Victory cards (especially hybrids).

[ftl]

Hmm. I just realized - the phrasing for paying extra has to work nicely with cost reduction, i.e. bridge, highway, princess. So it would usually be phrased as "for every [coin] you spend over the price of this card", without reference to its specific cost maybe?

Or maybe cost reduction just doesn't work well and you still have to spend more than the printed cost to get the benefits.

[LastFootnote]

Hmm. I just realized - the phrasing for paying extra has to work nicely with cost reduction, i.e. bridge, highway, princess. So it would usually be phrased as "for every [coin] you spend over the price of this card", without reference to its specific cost maybe?

Or maybe cost reduction just doesn't work well and you still have to spend more than the printed cost to get the benefits.

I assume it'll be something along the lines of, "When you buy this, you may pay up to $3 extra. For each extra $1 you spent, do X."

[LastFootnote]

Now that I've spent some time thinking about it, I'm expecting a Reaction that gets you coin tokens, probably when you're attacked. +Coins is not something that could happen on a Reaction prior to Guilds, so it's an obvious choice.

[SirPeebles]

Now that I've spent some time thinking about it, I'm expecting a Reaction that gets you coin tokens, probably when you're attacked. +Coins is not something that could happen on a Reaction prior to Guilds, so it's an obvious choice.

That's a good point.  The closest to giving you money next turn was probably Beggar with the top-decked Silver.

[werothegreat]

Now that I've spent some time thinking about it, I'm expecting a Reaction that gets you coin tokens, probably when you're attacked. +Coins is not something that could happen on a Reaction prior to Guilds, so it's an obvious choice.

Maybe something more like:

When you buy a card, you may discard this card.  If you do, +$3, +1 Buy.

With three of those in hand, just keep buying Coppers until you can buy a Province.

[LastFootnote]

Now that I've spent some time thinking about it, I'm expecting a Reaction that gets you coin tokens, probably when you're attacked. +Coins is not something that could happen on a Reaction prior to Guilds, so it's an obvious choice.

Maybe something more like:

When you buy a card, you may discard this card.  If you do, +$3, +1 Buy.

With three of those in hand, just keep buying Coppers until you can buy a Province.

Do not want!

[werothegreat]

Now that I've spent some time thinking about it, I'm expecting a Reaction that gets you coin tokens, probably when you're attacked. +Coins is not something that could happen on a Reaction prior to Guilds, so it's an obvious choice.

Maybe something more like:

When you buy a card, you may discard this card.  If you do, +$3, +1 Buy.

With three of those in hand, just keep buying Coppers until you can buy a Province.

Do not want!

Pourquoi pas?

[Ozle]

Hmm. I just realized - the phrasing for paying extra has to work nicely with cost reduction, i.e. bridge, highway, princess. So it would usually be phrased as "for every [coin] you spend over the price of this card", without reference to its specific cost maybe?

Or maybe cost reduction just doesn't work well and you still have to spend more than the printed cost to get the benefits.

I assume it'll be something along the lines of, "When you buy this, you may pay up to $3 extra. For each extra $1 you spent, do X."

This is what I am assuming, Magic 'kicker' style.

[werothegreat]

Well, I think we can expect some sort of Curser, at least one Village, and we know there's at least one Attack in this set.  There will probably be a Workshop variant, a Victory card, a Treasure card, and a discarding Attack.

[eHalcyon]

Relic -- Treasure
Cost: $5

$1.  +1 Relic token.  When you play this, you may give up any number of Relic tokens for +$1 each.

Details: Relic is always worth $2 if desired, since it provides a Relic token when played.  Its main power comes from the flexibility provided via the tokens; you can save up coin for the future.  The power is compounded if there are other cards around that use Relic tokens.

From an idea I had for cards that shared tokens.

[werothegreat]

Do you think we'll need to play specific cards to use coin tokens, or that we'll just be able to use them whenever?  I think it will be the former, but that any card that gives them will allow you to spend them, like eHalcyon's Relic card.  This in reference to Donald X's quote that one Guilds card will suffice to do whatever Guilds does.

[cluckyb]

Do you think we'll need to play specific cards to use coin tokens, or that we'll just be able to use them whenever?  I think it will be the former, but that any card that gives them will allow you to spend them, like eHalcyon's Relic card.  This in reference to Donald X's quote that one Guilds card will suffice to do whatever Guilds does.

Eh, I think it makes more sense if you can just spend them whenever. I mean, Relic works nice but if you want multiple cards that let you get tokens and they each have a different way of letting you spend them... I'm not sure how nice that would work.

[eHalcyon]

I expect that they will be spendable whenever.

But possibly an interesting thing would be, you can spend then whenever you want for +$1 but there are ALSO cards that use them for a better effect.  So like, a Relic card that gives you +$2 for each token you return.  You can either use a coin token for +$1 or wait until you play a card to make it more effective.

[LastFootnote]

Relic -- Treasure
Cost: $5

$1.  +1 Relic token.  When you play this, you may give up any number of Relic tokens for +$1 each.

Details: Relic is always worth $2 if desired, since it provides a Relic token when played.  Its main power comes from the flexibility provided via the tokens; you can save up coin for the future.  The power is compounded if there are other cards around that use Relic tokens.

From an idea I had for cards that shared tokens.

I think it's a cool idea, but once the Relic tokens are replaced with coin tokens (that you can presumably spend during any Buy phase), it might push the game too far in the direction of uninteresting strategies. I guess I compare it to Courtyard, where it's great for Big Money because you can usually put back exactly the amount of excess Treasure you have for next turn. This would sort of take that to the next level.

I could easily be wrong, though.

[MainiacJoe]

Here's another variation on over-paying: an action card that let's you spend more than one action on it.  Something along the lines of Diadem.  I'm too noob to know how one would price these.

Use X actions to play this.
+X Cards

Use X actions to play this.
+(X/2) coins, round down.

Use X actions to play this.
Trash a card from your hand costing exactly X coins.  Gain a card from the supply costing X+2 coins.

Use X actions to play this.
+X Cards, then discard X-1 cards

Use X actions to play this.
Discard your hand.
+X Cards

It's hard to come up with attacks using this mechanism that don't easily turn into pins.

[LastFootnote]

Here's another variation on over-paying: an action card that let's you spend more than one action on it.  Something along the lines of Diadem.  I'm too noob to know how one would price these.

Use X actions to play this.
+X Cards

Use X actions to play this.
+(X/2) coins, round down.

Use X actions to play this.
Trash a card from your hand costing exactly X coins.  Gain a card from the supply costing X+2 coins.

Use X actions to play this.
+X Cards, then discard X-1 cards

Use X actions to play this.
Discard your hand.
+X Cards

It's hard to come up with attacks using this mechanism that don't easily turn into pins.

This mechanic occurred to me as well. The problem is that you can't play it without a village on the board. Also, hoe does it work with Throne Room, etc?

[MainiacJoe]

Here's another variation on over-paying: an action card that let's you spend more than one action on it.  Something along the lines of Diadem.  I'm too noob to know how one would price these.

Use X actions to play this.
+X Cards

Use X actions to play this.
+(X/2) coins, round down.

Use X actions to play this.
Trash a card from your hand costing exactly X coins.  Gain a card from the supply costing X+2 coins.

Use X actions to play this.
+X Cards, then discard X-1 cards

Use X actions to play this.
Discard your hand.
+X Cards

It's hard to come up with attacks using this mechanism that don't easily turn into pins.

This mechanic occurred to me as well. The problem is that you can't play it without a village on the board. Also, hoe does it work with Throne Room, etc?

Throning isn't a problem, you get two opportunities to pay X actions; X can be zero.

What to do on boards without villages is a problem.  You can't have a whole set or subset dependent on it.  Maybe there will be cards that let us accumulate Action tokens?  But then we're better off calling them some other kind of token specific to Guilds like suggested above..

[heron]

Even with villages, most of those cards would be useless.
Make them be like +2X cards and +2X coins.

[Squidd]

+3 Actions
For each Action you spend: +1 Card, +1 Coin

[eHalcyon]

+3 Actions
For each Action you spend: +1 Card, +1 Coin

So this is +3 cards, +$3. Or a lab with +$2. Or a GM that draws an extra card.

[clb]

Options are always awesome - that would have to be an expensive card. $7?

[werothegreat]

Options are always awesome - that would have to be an expensive card. $7?

Guilds is only going up to $5, remember?

[eHalcyon]

Options are always awesome - that would have to be an expensive card. $7?

It would have to be more than that, or else have a restriction.  GM is usually harder to get than a $7 and that card is way better than GM.

[SirPeebles]

I'm anticipating a card which lets you gain a second copy if you pay extra.  Perhaps a nonterminal $5 card which seems a tad weak for $5, but for which you gain a second copy if you pay $6 instead.

[LastFootnote]

I'm anticipating a card which lets you gain a second copy if you pay extra.  Perhaps a nonterminal $5 card which seems a tad weak for $5, but for which you gain a second copy if you pay $6 instead.

Agreed. I think that's probably "HVGuilds". It's a $5 card labeled as costing both "Medium" ($5) and "Cheap" (≤$4). It's also "Cumulative", which likely indicates nonterminal.

[SirPeebles]

I'm anticipating a card which lets you gain a second copy if you pay extra.  Perhaps a nonterminal $5 card which seems a tad weak for $5, but for which you gain a second copy if you pay $6 instead.

Agreed. I think that's probably "HVGuilds". It's a $5 card labeled as costing both "Medium" ($5) and "Cheap" (≤$4). It's also "Cumulative", which likely indicates nonterminal.

Hmm, how would that work?  I can see that each card probably needs an official fixed cost, if only for interacting with trash-for-benefit or cards like Band of Misfits or Border Village.  But I guess I've been assuming that this fixed cost would be the least you can pay, and that you would only be able to overpay from there.  The RGG blurb doesn't mention underpaying, and underpaying seems a bit more problematic to me.  Or are you thinking that onigame would have considered "2 for $6" to be like a $3 cost?  I would hope not, because that starts to blur buying and gaining too much, and I feel like onigame is generally pretty on top of those nuances.

[LastFootnote]

I'm anticipating a card which lets you gain a second copy if you pay extra.  Perhaps a nonterminal $5 card which seems a tad weak for $5, but for which you gain a second copy if you pay $6 instead.

Agreed. I think that's probably "HVGuilds". It's a $5 card labeled as costing both "Medium" ($5) and "Cheap" (≤$4). It's also "Cumulative", which likely indicates nonterminal.

Hmm, how would that work?  I can see that each card probably needs an official fixed cost, if only for interacting with trash-for-benefit or cards like Band of Misfits or Border Village.  But I guess I've been assuming that this fixed cost would be the least you can pay, and that you would only be able to overpay from there.  The RGG blurb doesn't mention underpaying, and underpaying seems a bit more problematic to me.  Or are you thinking that onigame would have considered "2 for $6" to be like a $3 cost?  I would hope not, because that starts to blur buying and gaining too much, and I feel like onigame is generally pretty on top of those nuances.

I'd consider 2 for $6 to be like a $3 cost for the purposes of being in the "cheap" bracket, but maybe that's just me.  The official fixed cost would be $5, potentially making the card an attractive trash-for-benefit target.

[SirPeebles]

I suppose cheap has a different connotation to me than just effective price.  It has to do with whether it's available as an opener, whether it can be gained with workshop/ironworks/etc, whether Band of Misfits can emulate it, whether I can buy it in a junky slog, and so forth.  I wouldn't consider Border Village to be a cheap card, even though in practice it often comes at the price of $1 along with a $5.

But it's not something to argue over.  I'm excited to see the cards

[LastFootnote]

I suppose cheap has a different connotation to me than just effective price.  It has to do with whether it's available as an opener, whether it can be gained with workshop/ironworks/etc, whether Band of Misfits can emulate it, whether I can buy it in a junky slog, and so forth.  I wouldn't consider Border Village to be a cheap card, even though in practice it often comes at the price of $1 along with a $5.

Yeah. In fact, Border Village is only listed as "Expensive", so perhaps I'm off base here. Onigame's data isn't exactly perfect, anyhow. Herbalist, for example, doesn't have a cost bracket at all.

But it's not something to argue over.  I'm excited to see the cards

And how!