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[werothegreat]

Council Room BM in the base set is just ridiculous.  In order to beat the bots in the base Adventures, I have to play them at their own game and join in with the Council Room, rather than attempting an engine.  Eesh.  This is why there are expansions.  And Attacks.

[sandstorm]

Using the default bots from Geronimoo's simulator Smithy BM actually has a slight edge over Council Room BM

[Kirian]

Council Room BM in the base set is just ridiculous.  In order to beat the bots in the base Adventures, I have to play them at their own game and join in with the Council Room, rather than attempting an engine.  Eesh.  This is why there are expansions.  And Attacks.

1. Play lots of multiplayer.
2. Buy lots of zaps.
3. Destroy adventures.

I mean, most of us are playing the adventures only to get promo cards...

[werothegreat]

Council Room BM in the base set is just ridiculous.  In order to beat the bots in the base Adventures, I have to play them at their own game and join in with the Council Room, rather than attempting an engine.  Eesh.  This is why there are expansions.  And Attacks.

1. Play lots of multiplayer.
2. Buy lots of zaps.
3. Destroy adventures.

I mean, most of us are playing the adventures only to get promo cards...

I mean, that is also my plan.  But I only usually zap everyone back down to 7 C, 3 E.  Which is why I'm waiting for them to fix Act 2 of Prosperity, Seaside, Intrigue and Hinterlands.  I could just zap myself to 7 Silvers, but even then the bots do a surprisingly good job of keeping up with me, usually with Council Room.

[werothegreat]

Using the default bots from Geronimoo's simulator Smithy BM actually has a slight edge over Council Room BM

I can beat Smity BM with my eyes closed.  CR BM is a different beast, my friend.

[Morgrim7]

At first I thought this was about councilroom.com

[HiveMindEmulator]

At first I thought this was about councilroom.com

Me too

But seriously, what is the board on which Council Room BM is dominant?

[serakfalcon]

But seriously, what is the board on which Council Room BM is dominant?

lol exactly

[kn1tt3r]

At first I thought this was about councilroom.com

Me too

But seriously, what is the board on which Council Room BM is dominant?

That's what I thought, but I admit I also got somewhat desperate playing these Adventures. I attempted to build up a beautiful Village/CouncilRoom/Militia thing while my opponent just rushed with CR/BM to Golds and Provinces. No idea how that's possible. Probably partly due to the lack of good trashers (except Chapel) in the base game.

[HiveMindEmulator]

At first I thought this was about councilroom.com

Me too

But seriously, what is the board on which Council Room BM is dominant?

That's what I thought, but I admit I also got somewhat desperate playing these Adventures. I attempted to build up a beautiful Village/CouncilRoom/Militia thing while my opponent just rushed with CR/BM to Golds and Provinces. No idea how that's possible. Probably partly due to the lack of good trashers (except Chapel) in the base game.

Not a rhetorical question. What is the actual board?

[dondon151]

The reason why Council Room BM seems difficult to play against with an engine is because it's pretty easy to hit $8 on a Council Room play even with a reduced handsize to begin with.

[serakfalcon]

I think the trick against Council Room BM is to not use a strong engine: get mostly treasures an a +buy. You don't need strong drawing because your opponent will do it for you. Thanks to CR helping you along you can just shoot for 8 a turn, or even prov/duchy if you can get a buy card in there, you can probably hit it faster and more consistently than the CR person if you use a relatively weak engine

[kn1tt3r]

At first I thought this was about councilroom.com

Me too

But seriously, what is the board on which Council Room BM is dominant?

That's what I thought, but I admit I also got somewhat desperate playing these Adventures. I attempted to build up a beautiful Village/CouncilRoom/Militia thing while my opponent just rushed with CR/BM to Golds and Provinces. No idea how that's possible. Probably partly due to the lack of good trashers (except Chapel) in the base game.

Not a rhetorical question. What is the actual board?

Don't remember, there were several in the base game adventure. Maybe wero can tell.

[werothegreat]

At first I thought this was about councilroom.com

Me too

But seriously, what is the board on which Council Room BM is dominant?

That's what I thought, but I admit I also got somewhat desperate playing these Adventures. I attempted to build up a beautiful Village/CouncilRoom/Militia thing while my opponent just rushed with CR/BM to Golds and Provinces. No idea how that's possible. Probably partly due to the lack of good trashers (except Chapel) in the base game.

Not a rhetorical question. What is the actual board?

Don't remember, there were several in the base game adventure. Maybe wero can tell.

Latest one I played: Moat, Village, Feast, Smithy, Spy, Throne Room, Council Room, Laboratory, Library, Market

At first, I tried to do a simple engine with Labs and Markets and Golds, but consistently the two bots would get Council Rooms at their first $5 and quickly outstrip me in Province buys.

The thing that raises CR above Smithy against an engine is that CR has a +Buy built in, which makes it directly comparable to an engine.

[Morgrim7]

SmithyBM

[flies]

wero, which adventure is this?  I want to play it and see how it goes.

[werothegreat]

Base, Act 3, game 4.

[DStu]

Latest one I played: Moat, Village, Feast, Smithy, Spy, Throne Room, Council Room, Laboratory, Library, Market

I get some 2Militia-Lab-1Market+possibly TRs to ~40% against 2 CR-bots. Going from there I see some potential replacing the Market by a Councilroom getting actions from the TR and forcing discard with Milita, but I don't get the bot to play it right.

[SCSN]

I mean, most of us are playing the adventures only to get promo cards...

Huh, how/when can you gain those promo cards? Are they not included in any other expansion?

[werothegreat]

Latest one I played: Moat, Village, Feast, Smithy, Spy, Throne Room, Council Room, Laboratory, Library, Market

I get some 2Militia-Lab-1Market+possibly TRs to ~40% against 2 CR-bots. Going from there I see some potential replacing the Market by a Councilroom getting actions from the TR and forcing discard with Milita, but I don't get the bot to play it right.

There's no Militia.

[Davio]

Also I severely doubt the effectiveness of Militia against CR bots.

If you're going with a double Province engine based on CR you're also helping them get the best 3 out of 6 or 7 which for them increases the chance of having CR in hand and drawing up to $8 again. Let's say they have something like 2 Silvers and CR left after your turn, they only need to draw $4 worth in 4 cards which isn't at all impossible. Just a Gold and Copper will do or 2 Silvers, etc...

The real problem is probably them going through the piles too quickly for your engine to overtake them.

I think for the engine to be probable you need a way to exponentially get more cards quickly like a simple Remodel or trash down fast enough with Chapel. With just 1 card gain per turn and no trashing I think the complex engine is just too slow. Which leaves the question: Smithy or CR? Likely a decent mix of the 2.

[DStu]

Latest one I played: Moat, Village, Feast, Smithy, Spy, Throne Room, Council Room, Laboratory, Library, Market

I get some 2Militia-Lab-1Market+possibly TRs to ~40% against 2 CR-bots. Going from there I see some potential replacing the Market by a Councilroom getting actions from the TR and forcing discard with Milita, but I don't get the bot to play it right.

There's no Militia.

Upps.  Then I don't see a way around this.  You have no gain, no trash, no sift, no strong attack but strong BM which supports themselves.

[DStu]

Also I severely doubt the effectiveness of Militia against CR bots.

I wanted to make a Lab-engine with CR instead of Market for the buy if you can get actions via TR and reduce the downside of the draw by Militia.  Which could maybe be a bit better than with Market if it works.  But the Lab-engines is far from working without the Miliita, and the CR will not rescue it.

[jsh357]

I mean, most of us are playing the adventures only to get promo cards...

Huh, how/when can you gain those promo cards? Are they not included in any other expansion?

You have to earn 100 shield things to buy Promos, and right now you can only get those from Adventures.  Unfortunately, it seems you can only get enough for 3 Promos (4 with Guilds) so I don't know how you're getting the fifth.

[LastFootnote]

Latest one I played: Moat, Village, Feast, Smithy, Spy, Throne Room, Council Room, Laboratory, Library, Market

At first, I tried to do a simple engine with Labs and Markets and Golds, but consistently the two bots would get Council Rooms at their first $5 and quickly outstrip me in Province buys.

The thing that raises CR above Smithy against an engine is that CR has a +Buy built in, which makes it directly comparable to an engine.

I can't speak to whether Smithy/BM will beat Council Room/BM, but other than that, it's hard to beat Council Room on this board. Library is terrible, since you usually start with a large hand size. Without any trashing, it's hard to put together a great engine. If you really want to try, I think Throne Room is going to be key. Throne Room on Labs and Markets to get extra actions, then Smithy to further increase your draw. You'll have to buy 2 or 3 Golds, but the vast majority of your buys should be Action cards.

That's just my 2¢. I'm far from the best Dominion player and I also had a heck of a time against these Council Room bots, if memory serves.