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[ednever]

This shocked me:
I've decided Innovation is a much better game to play IRL than Dominion.

It's fast set-up time. It's easy to bring to a dinner party (I threw it in my jacket pocket-just in case we decided to play later in the evening. It we didn't, no big deal - unlike my suitcase for Dominion).

We played 4-player. Dominion is great for 2p and 3p, but I find 4p a lot less fun. Innovation was more fun as 4p teams (we played one game as 4p individuals and decided teams was MUCH better)

We know that at the high level Dominion has a ton of interaction, but that's not really true for lower level players. And even at the high level it's not a ton of fun to watch the other person play their turn (How many of you have multi-tasked while playing online, waiting for the other person to finish and then scanning their log? How many times IRL have you finished your turn and then ran to the bathroom figuring you will get back in time for your next turn?)

Innovation on the other hand is fast turns, and so much sharing in 4p that you are always doing something.

It doesn't hurt that either Innovation is a little more random than Dominion (or at least the best of us aren't good enough at it yet), that no one feels like they have no chance.

It turned into a really fun evening.

The crazy thing about all this is that with iso going down I'm not going to be playing any online Dominion. And now Innovation may replace Dominion as our IRL game. Never would have predicted it.

Really smart move by the gaming company to talk Doug into putting Innovation onto iso. Would never have occurred to me to pick up the game otherwise.
Doug: If I ever invent a game, I'm coming to you first!
(So far from me spreading the word in the last week, Innovation has sold an additional 4 copies of base and 2 copies of the two expansions...)

One more thought:
We played base last night. I haven't played a lot of Echos. I'm not sure I'm a fan in 2p online (Maybe it just takes more getting used to), but I think it would be much better in 4p. One of the issues with 4p is that with 4 players drawing, you go through the ages a lot faster than 2p. Having more cards to draw in each age could be a nice way to extend the game?)


Ed

[popsofctown]

I wish I could say I've had the same experience.  Most of my IRL friends get hardcore AP.

[dondon151]

4-p teams is kind of fun, but I still prefer Dominion as a game because either I still don't have the hang of Innovation after about 12 plays, or there's far more of a luck factor.

[ksasaki]

I've actually played a 4er with 2 teams of two, but it ended up being me and my friend (the experienced ones) dictating what our team-mates should do.  It does seem like it has a lot of potential though.  3er is a totally different mechanic, it doesn't pay to be the power leader in that version, because the other two will just team on you!

[ksasaki]

dondon, it does seem totally random for the first few plays, but after ~1000 plays between online and real life, I'd say that there is a luck factor, but there is a lot of hidden complexity (ESPECIALLY if you pull out echoes).  What that means from game to game is slightly different, but pretty soon you start to see the "power cards" in each age, and what to look out for (don't keep a full hand into age 3 if you don't have a significant leaf lead!) etc.

In the echoes expansion I start to see some crazy Magic-style combos playing out, that early blue splayed left with 3-4 echoes under it, or the wheel with umbrella's echo tucked underneath it (you may meld a card from your hand), yikes!

[dondon151]

Oh no, I'm not saying that it's "totally" random. The thing is that I'd be looking for certain cards while my opponent will get them by pure chance. Then he steamrolls me while I struggle to find a way to counter.

[ksasaki]

I agree dondon, that is a problem in the base.  That's why I like echoes better.  They just added a lot of hard counters to the "classic base killers."

Just a few off the top of my head...

fermenting: another castle stealer in age 3 and 4 (katana / kobuksun).
paper: scissors (if paper is a top card on any player's board, score it, hell you can even share scissors and paper is still gone)
math: perfume (I demand you transfer a card to my board of different value than any card on my board, if you do, draw and meld a card of equal value)
two more enterprise-like cards, except to steal lightbulbs / castles or leaves / factories.

and echoes and foreshadows, it's a brave new world out there.