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shark_bait

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trading one iso for another iso
« on: March 15, 2013, 09:53:53 pm »
+5

I don't know if this was the intention with putting Innovation of isotropic, but man is it GENIUS.  What site is popular with THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE playing daily?  Dominion isotropic.  What site is being shut down soon due to an official online verion?  Dominion isotropic.  What are these thousands of people going to do when dominion isotropic goes down?  They are going to look for new ways to spend there time.  A logical replacement is either Dominion on Goko or Innovation on isotropic.  Given the public response to Goko, I'd wager that many people will give Innovation a try (including me).  And if anyone is like me they will quickly fall in love with Innovation and end up buying the game.

I haven't started playing innovation yet (haven't even made it completely through the rulebook) but I'm gonna throw this phrase out there now and see if it happens....

Level 40 or Bust!

See ya guys on isotropic
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2013, 05:34:18 am »
0

Yeah, there was the whole thing about Carl Chudyk being "the man who said no to Goko" not long ago. And now, at the time when Goko is forcing the closure of a very popular and active gaming platform for Dominion, Carl Chudyk's game gets released on that very platform. Seems to me to be a very good idea for business and I would not be surprised if this implementation was more Carl's idea than Dougz's. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Dougz was offered money to implement Innovation (although I expect he would turn such an offer down, as he doesn't seem to do these things for money).

This is all, of course, baseless speculation. Do not quote me on any of it.
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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2013, 06:14:19 am »
0

Yeah, there was the whole thing about Carl Chudyk being "the man who said no to Goko" not long ago. And now, at the time when Goko is forcing the closure of a very popular and active gaming platform for Dominion, Carl Chudyk's game gets released on that very platform. Seems to me to be a very good idea for business and I would not be surprised if this implementation was more Carl's idea than Dougz's. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Dougz was offered money to implement Innovation (although I expect he would turn such an offer down, as he doesn't seem to do these things for money).

This is all, of course, baseless speculation. Do not quote me on any of it.
I actually sent lautapelit.fi (a Finnish board game publisher) a message in which I told them that I wish them to get the rights to publish a Finnish version of Innovation so that I can purchase it and play it with people who don't understand English, all because of Isotropic. Well they replied that they are not currently planning to publish Innovation in Finnish, but it was worth trying.

Sorry, I quoted you anyway.  :P
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gryph202

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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2013, 07:18:57 pm »
0

Yeah, there was the whole thing about Carl Chudyk being "the man who said no to Goko" not long ago. And now, at the time when Goko is forcing the closure of a very popular and active gaming platform for Dominion, Carl Chudyk's game gets released on that very platform. Seems to me to be a very good idea for business and I would not be surprised if this implementation was more Carl's idea than Dougz's. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Dougz was offered money to implement Innovation (although I expect he would turn such an offer down, as he doesn't seem to do these things for money).

This is all, of course, baseless speculation. Do not quote me on any of it.

Carl Chudyk wasn't the guy who said no to Goko.  Chris Cieslik was.  He posts here as "AngelKurisu," I believe.

Chris C. is to Asmadi Games as Jay Tummelson is to Rio Grande Games.  Jay was the guy who had to say yes to Goko, and Chris was the guy who said no.
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Thisisnotasmile

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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2013, 07:39:07 pm »
0

Yeah, there was the whole thing about Carl Chudyk being "the man who said no to Goko" not long ago. And now, at the time when Goko is forcing the closure of a very popular and active gaming platform for Dominion, Carl Chudyk's game gets released on that very platform. Seems to me to be a very good idea for business and I would not be surprised if this implementation was more Carl's idea than Dougz's. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Dougz was offered money to implement Innovation (although I expect he would turn such an offer down, as he doesn't seem to do these things for money).

This is all, of course, baseless speculation. Do not quote me on any of it.

Carl Chudyk wasn't the guy who said no to Goko.  Chris Cieslik was.  He posts here as "AngelKurisu," I believe.

Chris C. is to Asmadi Games as Jay Tummelson is to Rio Grande Games.  Jay was the guy who had to say yes to Goko, and Chris was the guy who said no.

Errr... yeah. Their names are very similar to me and I get confused :(
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gryph202

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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2013, 07:42:57 pm »
0

Yeah, there was the whole thing about Carl Chudyk being "the man who said no to Goko" not long ago. And now, at the time when Goko is forcing the closure of a very popular and active gaming platform for Dominion, Carl Chudyk's game gets released on that very platform. Seems to me to be a very good idea for business and I would not be surprised if this implementation was more Carl's idea than Dougz's. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Dougz was offered money to implement Innovation (although I expect he would turn such an offer down, as he doesn't seem to do these things for money).

This is all, of course, baseless speculation. Do not quote me on any of it.

Carl Chudyk wasn't the guy who said no to Goko.  Chris Cieslik was.  He posts here as "AngelKurisu," I believe.

Chris C. is to Asmadi Games as Jay Tummelson is to Rio Grande Games.  Jay was the guy who had to say yes to Goko, and Chris was the guy who said no.

Errr... yeah. Their names are very similar to me and I get confused :(

It's all good.  I just thought I should clarify.  Chris Cieslik publishes Innovation, but Carl Chudyk was the game's designer.  Donald X. is to Dominion as Carl Chudyk is to Innovation.   :P
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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2013, 08:37:47 pm »
+1

Unfortunately I promised my real life friends that I wouldn't play much innovation online so that I wouldn't get any better.
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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2013, 08:42:58 pm »
0

Sometimes I'm not sure those two things are connected >_<
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eHalcyon

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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2013, 08:57:10 pm »
0

I'm still curious about how Innovation ended up on isotropic.  Who approached whom?  That sort of thing.
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dondon151

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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2013, 10:45:29 pm »
0

Unfortunately I promised my real life friends that I wouldn't play much innovation online so that I wouldn't get any better.

Hah, my friend jokingly claimed that the worse you are at this game, the more likely you are to win!
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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2013, 10:52:37 pm »
+3

Unfortunately I promised my real life friends that I wouldn't play much innovation online so that I wouldn't get any better.

Hah, my friend jokingly claimed that the worse you are at this game, the more likely you are to win!

I must be amazing at Inno then...
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AngelKurisu

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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2013, 10:43:34 am »
+8

Doug approached me, although I secretly had a crush on Isotropic Dominion for a long time.

Third grade style <3!
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gryph202

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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2013, 03:29:28 pm »
0

Doug approached me, although I secretly had a crush on Isotropic Dominion for a long time.

Third grade style <3!

That doesn't surprise me.  I know there's some debate out there over whether Inno or Dominion is better suited to the Iso platform, but there is not a doubt in my mind that Inno is very well-suited.

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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2013, 04:09:41 pm »
+1

I still wish to see EmDo on Isotropic.  I could probably even the game mechanics!  Alas, if wishes were horses, we'd all be eating "beef."
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Grujah

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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2013, 04:26:21 pm »
0

I actually tried Innovation now that dominion is down, and it is quite awesome. Currently more fun than Goko  :'(
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ednever

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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2013, 07:07:43 pm »
0

Doug approached me, although I secretly had a crush on Isotropic Dominion for a long time.

Third grade style <3!

AngelKurisu:
I've seen a number of posts on here by you.
Not to be too direct, but, who are you?
Are you the designer? The publisher?

Either way, could you talk about your background, etc?

Ed
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theory

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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2013, 07:09:22 pm »
+2

I gave him his title.
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gryph202

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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2013, 12:07:06 am »
0

Doug approached me, although I secretly had a crush on Isotropic Dominion for a long time.

Third grade style <3!

AngelKurisu:
I've seen a number of posts on here by you.
Not to be too direct, but, who are you?
Are you the designer? The publisher?

Either way, could you talk about your background, etc?

Ed

Pardon me if it sounds a bit presumptive of me to speak up here, but "AngelKurisu" is in fact Chris Cieslik (sp?) of Asmadi Games.  His relationship to Innovation is similar to Jay Tummelson's relationship to Dominion, i.e. he publishes the game that Carl Chudyk designed.  I believe Chris has done some design work of his own (e.g. "We Didn't Playtest This Game" et. al), but as Innovation's North American publisher, Chris gave DougZ the go-ahead to implement Inno on Iso.

Anything you'd like to add and/or correct here, Chris?  Or did I about cover it?
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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2013, 09:31:09 am »
0

Unfortunately I promised my real life friends that I wouldn't play much innovation online so that I wouldn't get any better.

I got the same thing from my fiancee.  :(

Love Iso Innovation though, and purchased the game last week to play IRL. WTG everyone involved!
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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2013, 10:08:53 am »
0

Doug approached me, although I secretly had a crush on Isotropic Dominion for a long time.

Third grade style <3!

AngelKurisu:
I've seen a number of posts on here by you.
Not to be too direct, but, who are you?
Are you the designer? The publisher?

Either way, could you talk about your background, etc?

Ed

Pardon me if it sounds a bit presumptive of me to speak up here, but "AngelKurisu" is in fact Chris Cieslik (sp?) of Asmadi Games.  His relationship to Innovation is similar to Jay Tummelson's relationship to Dominion, i.e. he publishes the game that Carl Chudyk designed.  I believe Chris has done some design work of his own (e.g. "We Didn't Playtest This Game" et. al), but as Innovation's North American publisher, Chris gave DougZ the go-ahead to implement Inno on Iso.

Anything you'd like to add and/or correct here, Chris?  Or did I about cover it?
Time for an interview topic? :D
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AngelKurisu

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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2013, 10:09:14 am »
+1

Yes, I run Asmadi Games, and helped Carl develop Innovation into the awesomeness that it became. 

I am hugely in favor of this implementation's existence.  It's great to be able to play the game cleanly and quickly online!

Iello I believe plans to release a digital version at some point, but they're in Europe so I'd like to think this version will be unaffected. 
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theory

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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2013, 10:29:38 am »
+1

Any chance you can get Carl onto here as well?  :-)  Do some secret histories, answer some design questions, etc.
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teasel

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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2013, 10:45:06 am »
0

Yes, I run Asmadi Games, and helped Carl develop Innovation into the awesomeness that it became. 

I am hugely in favor of this implementation's existence.  It's great to be able to play the game cleanly and quickly online!

Iello I believe plans to release a digital version at some point, but they're in Europe so I'd like to think this version will be unaffected.

i've asked before and i'm going to ask again
is there anything i can do to get figure in the sands on isotropic? i swear that even though i never created a graphic interface,i can still code and i have tons of free time
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 10:46:07 am by teasel »
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popsofctown

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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2013, 02:39:05 pm »
0

Yes, I run Asmadi Games, and helped Carl develop Innovation into the awesomeness that it became. 

I am hugely in favor of this implementation's existence.  It's great to be able to play the game cleanly and quickly online!

Iello I believe plans to release a digital version at some point, but they're in Europe so I'd like to think this version will be unaffected.

You can't promise though?
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gryph202

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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2013, 09:47:16 am »
0

Yes, I run Asmadi Games, and helped Carl develop Innovation into the awesomeness that it became. 

I am hugely in favor of this implementation's existence.  It's great to be able to play the game cleanly and quickly online!

Iello I believe plans to release a digital version at some point, but they're in Europe so I'd like to think this version will be unaffected.

You can't promise though?

I don't speak for Chris Cieslik or Asmadi games. 

That being said, I think the circumstances are vastly different.  The licensing for Dominion was done by language, as it is for most games.  In other words, RGG gets the license to publish all english-language versions of Dominion regardless of where they are released.  Innovation, on the other hand, was licensed by region.  The Iello English-language version is sold to retailers in Europe, primarily the UK, while Asmadi handles the first-level distribution in (North?) America.

It begs credulity, as far as I'm concerned, that Chris would want to do anything to jeopardize the IsoInno that he himself helped implement, but who knows?  As I said at the beginning of the post, I don't speak for him.  I'm just excited that Iso lives and I have my tabletop coppy of Inno.  :)
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palangus

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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2013, 10:16:42 am »
0


That being said, I think the circumstances are vastly different.  The licensing for Dominion was done by language, as it is for most games.  In other words, RGG gets the license to publish all english-language versions of Dominion regardless of where they are released. 

WUT.
So we could have dominion back if we all learn to speak french???
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gryph202

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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2013, 10:21:22 am »
0


That being said, I think the circumstances are vastly different.  The licensing for Dominion was done by language, as it is for most games.  In other words, RGG gets the license to publish all english-language versions of Dominion regardless of where they are released. 

WUT.
So we could have dominion back if we all learn to speak french???

Dunno.  I don't speak for Jay Tummelson either.  It is just my understanding that the licensing agreement for Inno was a little bit...shall we say, "unusual."
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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2013, 11:09:31 am »
0

So we could have dominion back if we all learn to speak french???
But if that's the case, we don't even have to learn to speak French. I think all the cards are recognizable from just the cost, type, vanilla bonuses and expansion. I'm not sure though, but at least I can't think of any two cards with the same cost, same vanilla bonuses and same type in the same expansion. And it's easy to learn to remember the few possible edge cases.

I don't understand the copyright law at all, though. I don't understand how it works, or why it even exists in the first place. So I'm relying on your clarifications.
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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2013, 11:14:48 am »
+4

We just need to get the dominion Tuvalu licensing sold to Ozle.
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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2013, 12:55:14 pm »
0

lets totally do that
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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2013, 01:31:40 pm »
+1

We just need to get the dominion Tuvalu licensing sold to Ozle.

Problem is, I'd sell out in a heartbeat to Goko for a big pile of cash!

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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2013, 02:55:15 pm »
0


That being said, I think the circumstances are vastly different.  The licensing for Dominion was done by language, as it is for most games.  In other words, RGG gets the license to publish all english-language versions of Dominion regardless of where they are released. 

WUT.
So we could have dominion back if we all learn to speak french???

What do you mean, you could "have Dominion back"?  Are you somehow suddenly unable to play?

Ignoring that... I would be highly surprised if RGG's distribution model works like that, given three things we know.  First, we know that Donald X has a licensing contract with RGG (Donald has stated this).  Second, we know that non-English versions say "(c) 20xx Rio Grande Games" on the cards (you can look this up at BGG).  Three, we know that RGG has a licensing contract with Goko.  Given that knowledge, what we can guess is the following:

(1) Donald, the original IP owner, owns the copyright to the card text.  Copyright, by default, applies to multiple languages, not just one; it applies to the words, not the letters or the alphabet.
(2) Donald has sold the copyright to RGG for a period of N years, after which the copyright reverts to him.
(3) Because RGG owns the copyright during this time, they automatically have a license to publish in any language or format they wish to.
(4) RGG sought artists for the card art and paid them for their art.  Mostly likely, this was a one-time payment for copyright/distribution in perpetuity, though it's possible the artists retained the right to sell prints of their artwork--hard to say.
(5) RGG collated everything into the game we know, in English, as Dominion; they decided to also be the publisher and distributor, at least in the US.  They contracted the manufacturing to their normal manufacturer, wherever that may be.
(6) RGG then sold the publication and distribution rights for a given language or area--not the same as the copyright--to Hans im Gluck, Filosofia, 999, etc., for P years.  Given the uniform look of Dominion versions, those publication and distribution rights came with the stipulation that the same card art would be used, and almost certainly the same manufacturer.
(7) RGG then sold the online distribution rights in all languages to Goko for Q years, after which those rights revert to RGG.

In other words, the rights to publish and distribute an online French, German, etc. version already belong to Goko.  So, no, you can't "have Dominion back" in the way you're implying.
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gryph202

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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2013, 04:13:38 pm »
0


That being said, I think the circumstances are vastly different.  The licensing for Dominion was done by language, as it is for most games.  In other words, RGG gets the license to publish all english-language versions of Dominion regardless of where they are released. 

WUT.
So we could have dominion back if we all learn to speak french???

What do you mean, you could "have Dominion back"?  Are you somehow suddenly unable to play?

Ignoring that... I would be highly surprised if RGG's distribution model works like that, given three things we know.  First, we know that Donald X has a licensing contract with RGG (Donald has stated this).  Second, we know that non-English versions say "(c) 20xx Rio Grande Games" on the cards (you can look this up at BGG).  Three, we know that RGG has a licensing contract with Goko.  Given that knowledge, what we can guess is the following:

(1) Donald, the original IP owner, owns the copyright to the card text.  Copyright, by default, applies to multiple languages, not just one; it applies to the words, not the letters or the alphabet.
(2) Donald has sold the copyright to RGG for a period of N years, after which the copyright reverts to him.
(3) Because RGG owns the copyright during this time, they automatically have a license to publish in any language or format they wish to.
(4) RGG sought artists for the card art and paid them for their art.  Mostly likely, this was a one-time payment for copyright/distribution in perpetuity, though it's possible the artists retained the right to sell prints of their artwork--hard to say.
(5) RGG collated everything into the game we know, in English, as Dominion; they decided to also be the publisher and distributor, at least in the US.  They contracted the manufacturing to their normal manufacturer, wherever that may be.
(6) RGG then sold the publication and distribution rights for a given language or area--not the same as the copyright--to Hans im Gluck, Filosofia, 999, etc., for P years.  Given the uniform look of Dominion versions, those publication and distribution rights came with the stipulation that the same card art would be used, and almost certainly the same manufacturer.
(7) RGG then sold the online distribution rights in all languages to Goko for Q years, after which those rights revert to RGG.

In other words, the rights to publish and distribute an online French, German, etc. version already belong to Goko.  So, no, you can't "have Dominion back" in the way you're implying.

To me, this sounds like a more likely arrangement.  It is not unusual for games to be published by different companies in different languages, but I seem to recall reading something about Jay Tummelson having some expertise in importing/converting Eurogames for the American market.   
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eliegel34

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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2013, 01:35:47 am »
0

Played my first game tonight.  It felt so good be back on isotropic; just the interface alone made me smile.  Thanks to JohnNi for being very patient and answering questions.  This feels like something i could enjoy.  Now I just have to figure out some strategy.  In case anyone wants a good laugh, I'm pretty sure my play is terrible. 

http://innovation.isotropic.org/gamelog/201303/25/game-20130325-212726-2185ad5e.html
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big layoutski

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Re: trading one iso for another iso
« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2013, 03:27:29 pm »
+3

After playing 60+ games of innovation on iso, last night I walked into my FLGS and bought the box game. I'm looking forward to breaking out the real cards.

Thanks to Chris and Dougz for introducing me to the game. We'll see if the wife likes it.
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