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Author Topic: Easy Puzzles  (Read 817490 times)

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Rubby

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1225 on: February 01, 2015, 09:37:36 am »
+2

Donald. We need you.
http://xkcd.com/169/

Did... Did you just rip my arm off?

I don't see what that was about, either.

I think the point was that the puzzle - specifically the misleading statement that the score was 27 to 24 - communicated badly.
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ConMan

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1226 on: February 01, 2015, 06:41:31 pm »
+11

Explaining the jokecomic:

The puzzle, as it is typically worded, goes something like this: "Angry and hungry are two words that end in -gry. There are three words in the English language. What is the third?" and the answer is meant to be "language", the third word in the phrase "the English language". In the comic, the person posing the puzzle messes up the wording so that the trick answer isn't even valid. The guy wearing the black hat (frequently referred to on the xkcd forums as "Black Hat Guy"), who is known for his somewhat sociopathic tendencies in other xkcd comics, is upset at either the trick of the question or the fact that the other person didn't even ask it properly (or possibly both), and in response cuts off that person's arm.

As an aside, there are several words in English that end in -gry, including "gry". However, other than "angry" and "hungry", none of them are used particularly often.


In the context of the thread:

The puzzle, as posed, requires a strict interpretation of the rules that does not have much utility since, as others have pointed out, the most meaningful way to count score mid-game would be to consider the score one would have if the game were to end immediately, at which point all of the cards on the player's Island mats would be returned to their respective decks, and hence the Silk Roads would be worth non-zero points.

In a sense, the puzzle posted in the thread is analogous to that asked in the comic. By using a wording that goes counter to most people's understanding of the rules, the solution to the puzzle seems unsatisfying and, perhaps most importantly, out of place in a thread entitled "Easy Puzzles". Hence, when asking Donald for a ruling on whether the puzzle's interpretation is valid, he chose to reply with a link to the xkcd comic, suggesting that the puzzle was based on poor communication and possibly acting smug about it. He may or may not also be advocating for the amputation of the asker's arm.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1227 on: February 09, 2015, 09:33:01 pm »
0

According to the wiki, Prosperity only comes with 8 coin tokens for the Trade Route mat.  What was the most Trade Route could be worth when Prosperity was released?  What is the most it could be worth now?

Bonus: In a random game, what is the chance that the 8 coin tokens from Prosperity aren't enough?
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TheOthin

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1228 on: February 09, 2015, 10:00:43 pm »
+1

According to the wiki, Prosperity only comes with 8 coin tokens for the Trade Route mat.  What was the most Trade Route could be worth when Prosperity was released?  What is the most it could be worth now?

Bonus: In a random game, what is the chance that the 8 coin tokens from Prosperity aren't enough?

Estate, Duchy, Province, Gardens, Great Hall, Harem, Nobles, Island, Vineyard, Colony makes 10. So it was, in fact, already possible for the available tokens to fall short.

Now, we have Fairgrounds, Farmland, Tunnel, Silk Road, and Feodum for a total of 15. However, as it is impossible for there to be more than 10 Kingdom Victory piles in a game, the limit is 14. Actually getting Trade Route in such a game requires having both it and Young Witch in the Black Market deck; anything else would take away a needed Supply pile one way or the other and cut the total to 13.

Funnily enough, this combination would never actually show up on Goko, as it contains no Prosperity cards in the Supply so Colony would not be randomly selected.

Beyond that, I'm not even gonna try the probability stuff.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1229 on: February 09, 2015, 10:11:48 pm »
+1

You missed Duke, for 11.

Is the randomization method for adding Colonies based on kingdom cards the official rule, or just a suggestion in the rule book?  If the former, then the correct answer for max value would actually be 13, because Colonies would be absent.  I actually hadn't thought of that until you mentioned it.

Otherwise, correct!  Including the choice not to try the probabilities. ;)
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ConMan

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1230 on: February 09, 2015, 10:12:57 pm »
+1

Base(ish) victory cards: Estate, Duchy, Province, Colony

Kingdom victory cards up to Prosperity: Gardens, Great Hall, Duke, Harem, Nobles, Island, Vineyards

Gives 11.

Kingdom victory cards post-Prosperity, up to Guilds: Fairgrounds, Tunnel, Farmland, Silk Road, Feodum

Gives 16, but as TheOthin points out the maximum you can manage for this is if you have Black Market containing Trade Route and Young Witch, allowing for 9 other initial Kingdom cards to be Victory cards, plus the Bane which would have to be Great Hall or Tunnel, for a total of 14 assuming that you play with Colonies despite there being no Prosperity cards in the Kingdom.

As for the bonus question, that's hideously difficult if YW is a possibility, in addition to the issues of whether promos are included or not.
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TheOthin

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1231 on: February 09, 2015, 10:34:40 pm »
0

You missed Duke, for 11.

Is the randomization method for adding Colonies based on kingdom cards the official rule, or just a suggestion in the rule book?  If the former, then the correct answer for max value would actually be 13, because Colonies would be absent.  I actually hadn't thought of that until you mentioned it.

Otherwise, correct!  Including the choice not to try the probabilities. ;)

Hmm.

"If only Kingdom cards from Prosperity are being used this game, then the Platinum and Colony piles are added to the Basic cards in the Supply for the game. If a mix of Kingdom cards from Prosperity and other sets are being used, then the inclusion of Platinum and Colony should be determined randomly, based on the proportion of Prosperity and non-Prosperity cards in use. For example, choose a random Kingdom card being used - such as the first card dealt out from the Randomizer deck - and if it is from Prosperity, add Platinum and Colony to the Supply."

I'm not sure how to interpret that, especially since I imagine people rarely actually follow that random selection suggestion in person. I certainly don't; usually we just put them out if we feel like it, which is most if not all the time Prosperity cards are being used.

In any case, the rules don't actually address whether or not you can use them with no other Prosperity cards in the Supply, as far as I can tell.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1232 on: February 09, 2015, 10:45:02 pm »
0

For the probabilities question, feel free to exclude Young Witch and Black Market.

New easy puzzle: There are no VP token cards in the game.  I play Trade Route but it produces $0.  At this point in the game, what is my maximum possible score?
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TheOthin

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1233 on: February 09, 2015, 10:59:01 pm »
0

For the probabilities question, feel free to exclude Young Witch and Black Market.

New easy puzzle: There are no VP token cards in the game.  I play Trade Route but it produces $0.  At this point in the game, what is my maximum possible score?

18, with Masquerade and six players.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1234 on: February 09, 2015, 11:15:50 pm »
0

For the probabilities question, feel free to exclude Young Witch and Black Market.

New easy puzzle: There are no VP token cards in the game.  I play Trade Route but it produces $0.  At this point in the game, what is my maximum possible score?

18, with Masquerade and six players.

I can get higher.
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ConMan

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1235 on: February 09, 2015, 11:16:38 pm »
+3

For the probabilities question, feel free to exclude Young Witch and Black Market.

New easy puzzle: There are no VP token cards in the game.  I play Trade Route but it produces $0.  At this point in the game, what is my maximum possible score?

18, with Masquerade and six players.
You're assuming passing all the starting Estates to you?

But you can also add 2 for Dame Josephine, plus 11 for Great Hall, Harem, Nobles, Island, Tunnel and Farmland gained from the Black Market, plus potentially quite large amounts for each of the variable VP cards, also gained from BM.

EDIT: In particular, with up to 31 victory cards in your deck (18 Estates + 12 alt VP from BM + Dame Josephine), the Silk Road will be worth 7 VP; you could have 80 silver in a 6-player game if I count right making the Feodum worth 26 VP; Gardens, Vineyards and Fairgrounds are trickier but I count at least 46 differently named cards out of Copper, Silver, Gold, the 12 alt VP, Estate, 10 Knights plus 10 other Kingdom piles (including the Bane), 5 Prizes and 5 Ruins so Fairgrounds are a minimum of 18 plus whatever else is in the BM deck.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 11:29:59 pm by ConMan »
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Davio

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1236 on: February 10, 2015, 09:27:17 am »
0

Put Hermit and Urchin in the BM deck and something that gives Spoils.
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Dingan

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1237 on: February 12, 2015, 07:48:48 am »
+2

I'm not sure if what I'm thinking of is how Goko would actually handle such a situation, but...

During your buy phase
- you have a gagillion coins and a quadrillion Potions to spend and 2 buys
- supply pile P has 2 cards left in it
- you can buy one of P, but not both
- you don't have any on-gain effect cards in play or in your hand (e.g. no Talisman). So at the end of your turn, the 1 of P that you did not buy is still there (you did not gain it).

How can this happen?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 08:09:24 am by Dingan »
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Elanchana

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1238 on: February 12, 2015, 07:51:37 am »
0

@Dingan: The card has potion in its cost?
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Witherweaver

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1239 on: February 12, 2015, 07:54:18 am »
0

Talisman
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Dingan

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1240 on: February 12, 2015, 07:57:04 am »
0

@Dingan: The card has potion in its cost?

Updated question.

Talisman

This works, but not what I had in mind.  Updated question.
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Burning Skull

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1241 on: February 12, 2015, 08:09:52 am »
+1

How can this happen?

gagillion may be not enough for double buy :P

Dingan

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1242 on: February 12, 2015, 08:10:35 am »
0

How can this happen?

gagillion may be not enough for double buy :P

gagillion > 1E100 > quadrillion > the most coins anyone has ever had during their buy phase
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 08:12:44 am by Dingan »
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Simon (DK)

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1243 on: February 12, 2015, 08:12:34 am »
+4

The supply pile is Knights or Ruins with 2 different named cards ledt. You've played Contraband and the opponent named the bottom card,
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Dingan

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1244 on: February 12, 2015, 08:13:11 am »
0

The supply pile is Knights or Ruins with 2 different named cards ledt. You've played Contraband and the opponent named the bottom card,

Bringo!

I had considered other flavors of this question:
- If you play a Contraband, opponent names a card, but you can still buy something from any pile, how can this happen?
- During your action phase, you have 2 Golds in your hand, but you guaranteed cannot buy a Grand Market during your upcoming buy phase, how can this happen?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 08:17:02 am by Dingan »
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Burning Skull

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1245 on: February 12, 2015, 08:16:05 am »
+2

Also, there are 2 Grand Markets in supply.
You have 11 coins in solid currency, and the rest of your gagillion is provided with coppers.
So you can only buy one GM after you either bought a Mint or a Mandarin.

Edit: doesn't actually matter whether you have any non-copper economy or not.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 08:21:01 am by Burning Skull »
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Dingan

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1246 on: February 12, 2015, 08:21:51 am »
0

Also, there are 2 Grand Markets in supply.
You have 11 coins in solid currency, and the rest of your gagillion is provided with coppers.
So you can only buy one GM after you either bought a Mint or a Mandarin.

Edit: doesn't actually matter whether you have any non-copper economy or not.

Huh, guess that works.  Woulda never thought of that.
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Simon (DK)

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1247 on: February 12, 2015, 08:22:29 am »
0

The supply pile is Knights or Ruins with 2 different named cards ledt. You've played Contraband and the opponent named the bottom card,

Bringo!

I had considered other flavors of this question:
- If you play a Contraband, opponent names a card, but you can still buy something from any pile, how can this happen?
- During your action phase, you have 2 Golds in your hand, but you guaranteed cannot buy a Grand Market during your upcoming buy phase, how can this happen?

- Your opponent named a card that aren't in a supply pile.
- You have a Copper in play from a Black Market play.
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Dingan

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1248 on: February 12, 2015, 08:24:25 am »
0

The supply pile is Knights or Ruins with 2 different named cards ledt. You've played Contraband and the opponent named the bottom card,

Bringo!

I had considered other flavors of this question:
- If you play a Contraband, opponent names a card, but you can still buy something from any pile, how can this happen?
- During your action phase, you have 2 Golds in your hand, but you guaranteed cannot buy a Grand Market during your upcoming buy phase, how can this happen?

- Your opponent named a card that aren't in a supply pile.
- You have a Copper in play from a Black Market play.

I guess I would have clarified if I had actually been asking them, but..

- Your opponent named the Knight/Ruins that was on the bottom
- You had played a Contraband during your BM play previously in your action phase, and opponent named GM
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Seprix

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1249 on: February 12, 2015, 01:42:07 pm »
0

An opponent's Saboteur hits one of your cards. You have a standard 5 card hand. As a result of this attack, you gain 16 Gold. How is this possible?
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