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Author Topic: Easy Puzzles  (Read 816161 times)

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Dingan

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1950 on: September 14, 2015, 08:12:12 pm »
0

@Dingan it's been long enough that you should probably just provide your answer.
xyz123 got the answer.  If you see me +1 an answer, it's usually the one I was thinking of.  You have 2 Moats -- one which you do not react, and one you do.  Note that this is kind of like the riddle that says you have 2 coins that add to 15 cents and one is not a dime -- the other one is a dime.

Fyi, the original puzzle:
2 player game.  Opponent plays a Witch.  There is at least 1 Curse in the Curse pile.  I have a Moat which I do not 'react'.  I have no other on-gain reaction cards (e.g. Trader) in my hand.  But I still gain a Curse (from the Witch).  How?

No shenanigans (Possession, etc.).
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eHalcyon

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1951 on: September 14, 2015, 09:19:03 pm »
0

@Dingan it's been long enough that you should probably just provide your answer.
xyz123 got the answer.  If you see me +1 an answer, it's usually the one I was thinking of.  You have 2 Moats -- one which you do not react, and one you do.  Note that this is kind of like the riddle that says you have 2 coins that add to 15 cents and one is not a dime -- the other one is a dime.

Fyi, the original puzzle:
2 player game.  Opponent plays a Witch.  There is at least 1 Curse in the Curse pile.  I have a Moat which I do not 'react'.  I have no other on-gain reaction cards (e.g. Trader) in my hand.  But I still gain a Curse (from the Witch).  How?

No shenanigans (Possession, etc.).

Oh, I don't usually check who +1s things. :P
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1952 on: September 14, 2015, 09:34:28 pm »
0

Another one fit for the "easy puzzles" thread.

I have a Moat in my hand and choosing not to react to a Militia helps me. No other kingdom cards are relevant. (or cards in the black market).
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pacovf

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1953 on: September 14, 2015, 09:50:09 pm »
+3

You intend to play that Moat, which will trigger a reshuffle, so you want to discard cards so that they won't miss it.
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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1954 on: September 15, 2015, 03:26:22 am »
+1

In a late game tactics situation, you would rather let your opponent know that you have two green cards in your hand than a Moat.
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Deadlock39

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1955 on: September 15, 2015, 09:42:20 am »
0

There are probably a ton of solutions to this one.

Another:
Your hand is Festival/Watchtower/Moat/Tunnel/Tunnel.


I apparently didn't read the question because it says other cards are not relevant.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 09:43:27 am by Deadlock39 »
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AdamH

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1956 on: September 15, 2015, 11:17:14 am »
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I can think of answers like "you've already discarded to a previous opponent's Militia (two green cards) and don't want to reveal the Moat" but that only helps you make the game take less time.

But the restriction of "no other Kingdom/Black Market cards are relevant" is really really huge. It's really hard to come up with convoluted situations that can come up in the 2-card kingdom of Militia and Moat that would make not revealing the Moat better than revealing it.

I don't think solutions that involve your opponent misplaying or even making a different play should be valid because then the trivial solution of "My opponent only buys Provinces on turns where people reveal Moats to his Militia" works. So the temptation of "I have two green cards to discard anyways, and I know playing this Moat will make me hit $8, and I want to invite misplays by my opponent or not reveal information" seems lackluster.

But then again I feel like that's probably it, since nothing else could really be it.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1957 on: September 15, 2015, 11:44:34 am »
0

@Dingan it's been long enough that you should probably just provide your answer.
xyz123 got the answer.  If you see me +1 an answer, it's usually the one I was thinking of.  You have 2 Moats -- one which you do not react, and one you do.  Note that this is kind of like the riddle that says you have 2 coins that add to 15 cents and one is not a dime -- the other one is a dime.

Fyi, the original puzzle:
2 player game.  Opponent plays a Witch.  There is at least 1 Curse in the Curse pile.  I have a Moat which I do not 'react'.  I have no other on-gain reaction cards (e.g. Trader) in my hand.  But I still gain a Curse (from the Witch).  How?

No shenanigans (Possession, etc.).

« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 11:46:49 am by GendoIkari »
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Witherweaver

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1958 on: September 15, 2015, 11:58:18 am »
+1

Pretty sure I already posted that!
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GendoIkari

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1959 on: September 15, 2015, 12:16:10 pm »
0

Pretty sure I already posted that!

Ha, I don't follow that thread. Did you post it because of this puzzle?
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Deadlock39

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1960 on: September 15, 2015, 12:28:26 pm »
+5

You intend to play that Moat, which will trigger a reshuffle, so you want to discard cards so that they won't miss it.

For a specific example of this: Your hand is Moat/Gold/Silver/Militia/Militia, and your deck exactly one card left in it that you know is a Gold.  Discarding the Militias puts them back into your shuffle.

Witherweaver

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1961 on: September 15, 2015, 12:36:36 pm »
0

Pretty sure I already posted that!

Ha, I don't follow that thread. Did you post it because of this puzzle?

Hmm.. it's possible I did not post it.  Or it was another thread.. I don't know.  I remember specifically going to find that video because of a discussion like this, but maybe I decided not to post it or something.

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GendoIkari

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1962 on: September 15, 2015, 12:51:43 pm »
0

Pretty sure I already posted that!

Ha, I don't follow that thread. Did you post it because of this puzzle?

Hmm.. it's possible I did not post it.  Or it was another thread.. I don't know.  I remember specifically going to find that video because of a discussion like this, but maybe I decided not to post it or something.

No, I was saying I found your post after you told me about it (in Random Stuff 2); but I don't follow Random Stuff 2 so I hadn't seen it.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1963 on: September 15, 2015, 01:19:04 pm »
0

Pretty sure I already posted that!

Ha, I don't follow that thread. Did you post it because of this puzzle?

Hmm.. it's possible I did not post it.  Or it was another thread.. I don't know.  I remember specifically going to find that video because of a discussion like this, but maybe I decided not to post it or something.

No, I was saying I found your post after you told me about it (in Random Stuff 2); but I don't follow Random Stuff 2 so I hadn't seen it.

Ah, so I did do it!

Oh, and I remember now.  It's the same clip that had the "Liberry/ Strawbrary" thing.  It was in response to the "pronouncing 'r' in 'February'" discussion.  But I remember thinking about it in regards to this puzzle.. strange that it was relevant in two different places in two different was at around the same time. 
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GendoIkari

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1964 on: September 15, 2015, 01:20:41 pm »
0

Pretty sure I already posted that!

Ha, I don't follow that thread. Did you post it because of this puzzle?

Hmm.. it's possible I did not post it.  Or it was another thread.. I don't know.  I remember specifically going to find that video because of a discussion like this, but maybe I decided not to post it or something.

No, I was saying I found your post after you told me about it (in Random Stuff 2); but I don't follow Random Stuff 2 so I hadn't seen it.

Ah, so I did do it!

Oh, and I remember now.  It's the same clip that had the "Liberry/ Strawbrary" thing.  It was in response to the "pronouncing 'r' in 'February'" discussion.  But I remember thinking about it in regards to this puzzle.. strange that it was relevant in two different places in two different was at around the same time.

Ha!
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1965 on: September 15, 2015, 03:54:24 pm »
+2

I can think of answers like "you've already discarded to a previous opponent's Militia (two green cards) and don't want to reveal the Moat" but that only helps you make the game take less time.

But the restriction of "no other Kingdom/Black Market cards are relevant" is really really huge. It's really hard to come up with convoluted situations that can come up in the 2-card kingdom of Militia and Moat that would make not revealing the Moat better than revealing it.

I don't think solutions that involve your opponent misplaying or even making a different play should be valid because then the trivial solution of "My opponent only buys Provinces on turns where people reveal Moats to his Militia" works. So the temptation of "I have two green cards to discard anyways, and I know playing this Moat will make me hit $8, and I want to invite misplays by my opponent or not reveal information" seems lackluster.

But then again I feel like that's probably it, since nothing else could really be it.

Well Deadlock's solution is easier and works anyway, but I still think Awaclus's solution is valid and the trivial example you gave isn't.  You assume that your opponent doesn't misplay, but you can only assume that from their perspective.  They can still do something that ends up being bad for them, as long as, based on the information they have, it was the best thing they could have done.  So you have to give them information that causes them to do something that ends up being worse for them.  Now there may be some WIFOM there, but this is good enough as a reason to prefer discarding two green cards rather than revealing Moat sometimes.

To give an example of this, say your hand is 2 Golds, a Moat, and 2 Provinces.  There are 2 Provinces left, and you're up by 2 points.  Your opponent plays a Militia, and then must decide whether to buy a Duchy or a Province.  You can either reveal the Moat, in which case he knows that you have a Moat four other "random" cards in hand, or discard 2 green cards, in which case he knows you have three better than average cards.  If you think you can buy a Province here, you want to convince him you can't; if you don't think you can buy a Province, you want to convince him you can.  Let's say you both know (from deck-tracking) that playing a Moat would draw you 2 Silvers.  If you reveal the Moat, he will certainly think four random cards plus 2 silvers will get you a Province (and so he'll take a Duchy).  But if you discard two cards instead, all he knows is that you have three cards, and he has no idea whether you will pick up those 2 Silvers this turn.  He is more likely to assume you can't get the Province, breaking PPR and making himself lose.

Note that it is actually in your interest to do this (it increases your chance of winning, rather than just speeding up the game), because it would be possible for him to catch up on later turns with Duchies.
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1966 on: September 15, 2015, 09:50:37 pm »
+1

You intend to play that Moat, which will trigger a reshuffle, so you want to discard cards so that they won't miss it.

Yup. This was the intended answer. The above one is also interesting and works.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 09:53:44 pm by XerxesPraelor »
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Dingan

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1967 on: September 17, 2015, 01:13:36 pm »
0

More of a question than a puzzle:
What cards are made worse by Shelters?  Examples: Ambassador, Baron, pretty much any trash-for-benefitter (especially Remake and Upgrade).

What cards are made better?

Of course, there are fringe cases (maybe you want to Upgrade a Hovel into a Hamlet).  But let's ignore those.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1968 on: September 17, 2015, 01:20:32 pm »
+4

More of a question than a puzzle:
What cards are made worse by Shelters?  Examples: Ambassador, Baron, pretty much any trash-for-benefitter (especially Remake and Upgrade).

What cards are made better?

Of course, there are fringe cases (maybe you want to Upgrade a Hovel into a Hamlet).  But let's ignore those.

"let's exclude edge cases"

*pummeled with edge cases*
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iguanaiguana

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1969 on: September 17, 2015, 01:55:07 pm »
0

If I can't edge case, can I instead troll?

Because rebuild gets worse with shelters. Often skippable on a shelters board. So much so in fact that if its the last card revealed its like the card is proclaiming its own death sentence.

Seriously though, your question is in no way an easy puzzle
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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1970 on: September 17, 2015, 02:15:29 pm »
0

It's no good when you flip an opponent's Estate with your Swindler, but it's even worse when you hit a Shelter and give them a free trash. But you might want to open double Swindler, and Necropolis helps with that.

Necropolis:
Any time you want to open two terminals.

Hovel:
Dual-type VP, especially Great Hall and Tunnel

Overgrown Estate:
There's not much synergy with OE that isn't better with Estate. Trash For No Benefit?

Witherweaver

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1971 on: September 17, 2015, 02:20:05 pm »
0

All Victory cards get better with Hovel, technically.
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Burning Skull

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1972 on: September 22, 2015, 09:10:34 am »
0

What cards are made better?

I played a game recently with Remake and Fool's Gold. Having Shelters instead of Estates helped a lot.

Chris is me

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1973 on: September 22, 2015, 09:46:40 am »
0

Edit: most of these have been said already but if I remove them my post is exclusively edgy cases

Lots of actions that are terminal or can be terminal are made marginally better by Shelters just because of Necropolis. Two terminal openings are a lot more viable and waiting to get your first village from the Supply means your deck gets the cards that do things sooner.

Harem, Great Hall, Nobles, Island, and Distant Lands all benefit from Hovel - there is less of a downside to buying these cards early if they lead to trashing Hovel. Obviously Harem and Nobles make your deck much better than Hovel did, Island is twice as effective at thinning your deck (-2 Cards instead of -1 Card), and Great Hall reduces your effective deck size.

Vagrant is made marginally better as it can draw Necropolis with its reveal effect, making it one of the only cards it can draw second that does anything at all.

Cards that trash Estates, but don't care that the card being trashed *is* an Estate, slightly benefit from the +1 Card of Overgrown Estate.

Governor and Farmland make Shelters into Silvers, which depending on the board could be better than a $4 card.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 09:47:58 am by Chris is me »
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Dingan

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Re: Easy Puzzles
« Reply #1974 on: September 22, 2015, 04:13:26 pm »
0

4-player game.  You play Ambassador to return 2 cards to the supply, onto a supply pile that now has >2 cards in it.  No reactions, on-gain cards, Lighthouse, or anything like that are anywhere.  But only 2 of your 3 opponents gain a copy of the card.  How?
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 04:15:41 pm by Dingan »
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