Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  All

Author Topic: Will You Switch to Goko?  (Read 24621 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5477
  • Respect: +2860
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #50 on: March 09, 2013, 11:20:22 am »
0

The experience that I gained playing solitaire far outweighs the experience that I've gained playing ~500 2-player games. Solitaire Dominion is an invaluable tool for any player seeking to quickly improve at the game.

Bullshit. I'll grant you that it's useful, but only for cards that aren't interactive and even then only up to a point. You're far overstating it to try to make a point.

Eh.  The major difference between the most elite players and the rest of us is generally engine tuning.  That ca be done in solitaire.  Interactions like Jack beats Hag and clever Masquerade passes matter, but usually aren't what separates the wheat from the chaff.
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7495
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10721
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #51 on: March 09, 2013, 08:12:52 pm »
0

The experience that I gained playing solitaire far outweighs the experience that I've gained playing ~500 2-player games. Solitaire Dominion is an invaluable tool for any player seeking to quickly improve at the game.

Bullshit. I'll grant you that it's useful, but only for cards that aren't interactive and even then only up to a point. You're far overstating it to try to make a point.

Eh.  The major difference between the most elite players and the rest of us is generally engine tuning.  That ca be done in solitaire.  Interactions like Jack beats Hag and clever Masquerade passes matter, but usually aren't what separates the wheat from the chaff.

It's not just that. It's pacing. It's Duchy dancing. Imagine for a moment a player that has played 1000 solitaire games, but has never played a real game. He might be the best engine builder out there, but has no idea when or exactly how to green. You would beat ghat player hands-down. Pacing is everything in Dominion. Solitaire games can be a useful tool, but to say they're more useful than real games is utter crap.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 08:13:58 pm by LastFootnote »
Logged

Watno

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2745
  • Shuffle iT Username: Watno
  • Respect: +2982
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #52 on: March 09, 2013, 08:27:12 pm »
+1

They're not as fun either.
Logged

dondon151

  • 2012 US Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2522
  • Respect: +1856
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #53 on: March 09, 2013, 09:12:16 pm »
0

It's not just that. It's pacing. It's Duchy dancing. Imagine for a moment a player that has played 1000 solitaire games, but has never played a real game. He might be the best engine builder out there, but has no idea when or exactly how to green. You would beat ghat player hands-down. Pacing is everything in Dominion. Solitaire games can be a useful tool, but to say they're more useful than real games is utter crap.

I've presented my case, dude. The only non-solitaire experience that I had prior to the 2012 World Masters tournament was 3-player IRL games against friends. I'd say that at that point I was around a level 35 player, and most recently I've peaked at level 42-43 (though I suspect I could go higher if I played more often). The weakest aspect of my play at that point in time was against attacks (particularly Curses), and improvement in that aspect of play has accounted for the increase in level. There is no doubt that I am a much stronger player now that I have 500 2-player games under my belt, but in August 2012 I was also much stronger than many other players who have thousands of games played on Iso.

Solitaire lets the player study in a focus, directed manner how the cards interact. You don't pick up on the subtlety of tactical decisions without some experience, but it's far easier to approach a tactical conclusion via reasoning than it is to develop a strategy. When do I start buying Duchies? When there are 4-5 Provinces remaining in a BM board and the opponent is more or less mirroring. When do I stop building the engine and start greening? When I hit $16 with at least 2 buys, or when I hit $13 with at least 2 buys, or when I can sustain $8 for many consecutive turns (though this sort of decision-making is easy to tease from solitaire play). It's no surprise that a lot of these tactical decisions have been optimized through the use of simulation, and that's where I learned about them in the first place.

Finally, I disagree with your implication that a player can't learn pacing from solitaire games. The whole point of playing solitaire is to reach a certain goal faster than someone else did. In Dominion, there is no advantage to being slower instead of faster.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 09:17:56 pm by dondon151 »
Logged

Watno

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2745
  • Shuffle iT Username: Watno
  • Respect: +2982
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #54 on: March 09, 2013, 09:27:47 pm »
+2

Btw, solitaire games are possible at Goko in the secret chamber room
Logged

michaeljb

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1422
  • Shuffle iT Username: michaeljb
  • Respect: +2113
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #55 on: March 10, 2013, 03:29:17 pm »
0

Btw, solitaire games are possible at Goko in the secret chamber room

inb4 complaints about it being non-obvious
Logged
🚂 Give 18xx games a chance 🚂

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5477
  • Respect: +2860
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #56 on: March 10, 2013, 03:33:57 pm »
0

It's not just that. It's pacing. It's Duchy dancing. Imagine for a moment a player that has played 1000 solitaire games, but has never played a real game. He might be the best engine builder out there, but has no idea when or exactly how to green. You would beat ghat player hands-down. Pacing is everything in Dominion. Solitaire games can be a useful tool, but to say they're more useful than real games is utter crap.

I've presented my case, dude. The only non-solitaire experience that I had prior to the 2012 World Masters tournament was 3-player IRL games against friends. I'd say that at that point I was around a level 35 player, and most recently I've peaked at level 42-43 (though I suspect I could go higher if I played more often). The weakest aspect of my play at that point in time was against attacks (particularly Curses), and improvement in that aspect of play has accounted for the increase in level. There is no doubt that I am a much stronger player now that I have 500 2-player games under my belt, but in August 2012 I was also much stronger than many other players who have thousands of games played on Iso.

Solitaire lets the player study in a focus, directed manner how the cards interact. You don't pick up on the subtlety of tactical decisions without some experience, but it's far easier to approach a tactical conclusion via reasoning than it is to develop a strategy. When do I start buying Duchies? When there are 4-5 Provinces remaining in a BM board and the opponent is more or less mirroring. When do I stop building the engine and start greening? When I hit $16 with at least 2 buys, or when I hit $13 with at least 2 buys, or when I can sustain $8 for many consecutive turns (though this sort of decision-making is easy to tease from solitaire play). It's no surprise that a lot of these tactical decisions have been optimized through the use of simulation, and that's where I learned about them in the first place.

Finally, I disagree with your implication that a player can't learn pacing from solitaire games. The whole point of playing solitaire is to reach a certain goal faster than someone else did. In Dominion, there is no advantage to being slower instead of faster.

It's kinda hard to argue with results. 
Logged

reinoe

  • Herbalist
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
  • Respect: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #57 on: March 10, 2013, 07:11:43 pm »
0

So for three days in a row I've been trying goko and the games just keep freezing.  I feel bad for the Dominion player base.  I don't know how much RGG paid GOKO to design their system but it's too much.
Logged
This user is banned!

ftl

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2056
  • Shuffle iT Username: ftl
  • Respect: +1345
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #58 on: March 10, 2013, 07:22:08 pm »
0

Quote
don't know how much RGG paid GOKO to design their system but it's too much.

Other way around. Goko paid rgg for the right to make a non-free online dominion and shut down all the free ones.
Logged

reinoe

  • Herbalist
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
  • Respect: 0
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #59 on: March 10, 2013, 07:40:20 pm »
0

Quote
don't know how much RGG paid GOKO to design their system but it's too much.

Other way around. Goko paid rgg for the right to make a non-free online dominion and shut down all the free ones.
Thanks for the clarification.
Logged
This user is banned!

cactus

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 293
  • Then: longtime lurker. Now: occasional poster.
  • Respect: +348
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #60 on: March 11, 2013, 02:10:16 am »
0

So for three days in a row I've been trying goko and the games just keep freezing.  I feel bad for the Dominion player base.  I don't know how much RGG paid GOKO to design their system but it's too much.

Using which browser? I had heaps of problems when using Safari. Now I'm using Chrome and clearing my browser history periodically and - basically having nil problems with freezing or lag (will maybe a tiny bit of lag, but not so much as to be a real problem, and zero freezing).

ashersky

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2343
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1517
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #61 on: March 11, 2013, 02:42:10 am »
0

So for three days in a row I've been trying goko and the games just keep freezing.  I feel bad for the Dominion player base.  I don't know how much RGG paid GOKO to design their system but it's too much.

Using which browser? I had heaps of problems when using Safari. Now I'm using Chrome and clearing my browser history periodically and - basically having nil problems with freezing or lag (will maybe a tiny bit of lag, but not so much as to be a real problem, and zero freezing).

Is there an expectation that it will eventually work in Safari/IE/Firefox?  And without history clearing?  Or would that be too much to expect?
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7096
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9411
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #62 on: March 11, 2013, 03:54:08 am »
0

So for three days in a row I've been trying goko and the games just keep freezing.  I feel bad for the Dominion player base.  I don't know how much RGG paid GOKO to design their system but it's too much.

Using which browser? I had heaps of problems when using Safari. Now I'm using Chrome and clearing my browser history periodically and - basically having nil problems with freezing or lag (will maybe a tiny bit of lag, but not so much as to be a real problem, and zero freezing).

Is there an expectation that it will eventually work in Safari/IE/Firefox?  And without history clearing?  Or would that be too much to expect?

I have no trouble in FF any longer.  I would not expect any website to work in IE, ever, so I don't fault Goko for that.  Safari they really ought to work on, though.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

Watno

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2745
  • Shuffle iT Username: Watno
  • Respect: +2982
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #63 on: March 11, 2013, 08:28:30 am »
0

I don't have problems with FF either. The Safari bug jqs described on getsatisfaction (it seems to refresh all tabs occasionally) seems hard to work around though.
Logged

Tdog

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 230
  • Respect: +133
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #64 on: March 11, 2013, 08:33:15 pm »
0

Now there was 350 ish people playing or in the isotropc lobby, and 260 in the Goko lobby or playing. While Goko isn't at the level of iso, it's not doing bad and will most likely grow when iso goes down.
Logged

ashersky

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2343
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1517
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #65 on: March 11, 2013, 08:37:45 pm »
0

Now there was 350 ish people playing or in the isotropc lobby, and 260 in the Goko lobby or playing. While Goko isn't at the level of iso, it's not doing bad and will most likely grow when iso goes down.

260 all in one room in Goko, like in Iso?
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

aaron0013

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 308
  • Respect: +220
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #66 on: March 12, 2013, 09:56:31 am »
0

So for three days in a row I've been trying goko and the games just keep freezing.  I feel bad for the Dominion player base.  I don't know how much RGG paid GOKO to design their system but it's too much.

Using which browser? I had heaps of problems when using Safari. Now I'm using Chrome and clearing my browser history periodically and - basically having nil problems with freezing or lag (will maybe a tiny bit of lag, but not so much as to be a real problem, and zero freezing).
No way! Did cactus just say something semi-positive about Goko?
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7495
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10721
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #67 on: March 12, 2013, 09:59:34 am »
0

So for three days in a row I've been trying goko and the games just keep freezing.  I feel bad for the Dominion player base.  I don't know how much RGG paid GOKO to design their system but it's too much.

Using which browser? I had heaps of problems when using Safari. Now I'm using Chrome and clearing my browser history periodically and - basically having nil problems with freezing or lag (will maybe a tiny bit of lag, but not so much as to be a real problem, and zero freezing).
No way! Did cactus just say something semi-positive about Goko?

Ahem. *points*

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7313.0
Logged

aaron0013

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 308
  • Respect: +220
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #68 on: March 13, 2013, 10:31:01 am »
0

Wow I didn't realize that Goko had improved that much. Cool to see a former critic promoting them now.
Logged

ashersky

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2343
  • 2013/2014/2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
  • Respect: +1517
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #69 on: March 13, 2013, 05:43:44 pm »
0

Wow I didn't realize that Goko had improved that much. Cool to see a former critic promoting them now.

Have we seen examples of the opposite?  That is, a former Goko fan that is now a critic?
Logged
f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year
2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
2013, 2014 Mafia Player of the Year (Tie)

11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7495
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10721
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #70 on: March 13, 2013, 05:57:54 pm »
0

Wow I didn't realize that Goko had improved that much. Cool to see a former critic promoting them now.

Have we seen examples of the opposite?  That is, a former Goko fan that is now a critic?

I think there are a lot of people who are both fans and critics of Goko, myself included.
Logged

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7096
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9411
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #71 on: March 13, 2013, 06:23:45 pm »
+1

Wow I didn't realize that Goko had improved that much. Cool to see a former critic promoting them now.

Have we seen examples of the opposite?  That is, a former Goko fan that is now a critic?

I think there are a lot of people who are both fans and critics of Goko, myself included.

I would place myself in the "critical but tolerant" category now.  "Fan" is a bit of a stretch for me right now.  I'm a fan of Dominion; Goko is a reasonable adaptation of Dominion to the web, where nine months ago it was shit.

So call me formerly an exceedingly critical non-customer, now a semi-critical customer.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

Beyond Awesome

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2941
  • Shuffle iT Username: Beyond Awesome
  • Respect: +2466
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #72 on: March 13, 2013, 10:27:52 pm »
+3

Wow I didn't realize that Goko had improved that much. Cool to see a former critic promoting them now.

Have we seen examples of the opposite?  That is, a former Goko fan that is now a critic?

As a paying customer who has played their exclusively since September, I actually consider myself a critic. There are many, many things I still want to see improved such as:

In no particular order
1) Shelters in Pro Games
2) Ability to reconnect even after refreshing one's browser
3) All disconnects count as a loss
4) Point Counter
5) Ability to choose what sets get chosen for non-pro games
6) All promo cards implemented
7) Ability to actually get all promo cards
8) Base Cards art implemented
9) Matchmaking
10) No limits on people in lobbies
11) Young Witch and Ruins all on the first page
12) No lag. Period (It seems to be lagging a bit today).
13) All rules implemented correctly such as being able to choose which order to resolve cards at end of turn.
14) Make it easier to see cards when playing Scheme and you have a shit ton of actions out
15) No freezes!
16) Quicker response time to super easy fixes like Shelters in Pro Games
17) An honest pricing scheme like it was before Alchemy was released.
18) Ability to chose identical hands for pro games
19) A better rating system, ideally one that only counts wins and losses at the end of the day and also one that slowly reduces one rating for not playing over a period of time. Also, one that doesn't make you lose points against 0 rank opponents for winning, but maybe you don't gain points as well.
20) Having the loser go first for the second game (I am not sure if Goko does this, but I suspect it is always random who goes first. I might be wrong.)

Well, that is what comes to me off the top of my head. But, as you can see, despite having played over 1000 games on Goko, there are still many changes I hope to see. Some are small nitpicks and some are pretty big.
Logged

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7096
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9411
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #73 on: March 13, 2013, 10:31:25 pm »
+1

Wow I didn't realize that Goko had improved that much. Cool to see a former critic promoting them now.

Have we seen examples of the opposite?  That is, a former Goko fan that is now a critic?

As a paying customer who has played their exclusively since September, I actually consider myself a critic. There are many, many things I still want to see improved such as:

In no particular order
1) Shelters in Pro Games
2) Ability to reconnect even after refreshing one's browser
3) All disconnects count as a loss
4) Point Counter
5) Ability to choose what sets get chosen for non-pro games
6) All promo cards implemented
7) Ability to actually get all promo cards
8) Base Cards art implemented
9) Matchmaking
10) No limits on people in lobbies
11) Young Witch and Ruins all on the first page
12) No lag. Period (It seems to be lagging a bit today).
13) All rules implemented correctly such as being able to choose which order to resolve cards at end of turn.
14) Make it easier to see cards when playing Scheme and you have a shit ton of actions out
15) No freezes!
16) Quicker response time to super easy fixes like Shelters in Pro Games
17) An honest pricing scheme like it was before Alchemy was released.
18) Ability to chose identical hands for pro games
19) A better rating system, ideally one that only counts wins and losses at the end of the day and also one that slowly reduces one rating for not playing over a period of time. Also, one that doesn't make you lose points against 0 rank opponents for winning, but maybe you don't gain points as well.
20) Having the loser go first for the second game (I am not sure if Goko does this, but I suspect it is always random who goes first. I might be wrong.)

Well, that is what comes to me off the top of my head. But, as you can see, despite having played over 1000 games on Goko, there are still many changes I hope to see. Some are small nitpicks and some are pretty big.

Other than 4 and 8, I love this list.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

Warrior

  • Golem
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 187
  • Respect: +54
    • View Profile
Re: Will You Switch to Goko?
« Reply #74 on: March 13, 2013, 10:52:34 pm »
0

Is Isotropic down in a few hours? Or in a a day and a few hours? Thanks.

Warrior
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4  All
 

Page created in 0.217 seconds with 21 queries.