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[eHalcyon]

I think you might be underestimating non-terminal trashing.

As it is right now, two GVs in hand will get you Gold in hand.  Along with the non-terminal trashing, that's probably too strong.  At the very least, the Gold you gain shouldn't go in hand.  Reducing hand size isn't that difficult, though it depends on the board.  LF already mentioned Hamlet and Warehouse.  GV itself helps you do it.

[Asper]

I think you might be underestimating non-terminal trashing.

As it is right now, two GVs in hand will get you Gold in hand.  Along with the non-terminal trashing, that's probably too strong.  At the very least, the Gold you gain shouldn't go in hand.  Reducing hand size isn't that difficult, though it depends on the board.  LF already mentioned Hamlet and Warehouse.  GV itself helps you do it.

I don't know if i do. I will just try a version where the gain is not to hand. If it can keep up, i'll do it.

[One Armed Man]

Grand Vizier
+ 1 Action
Gain a Treasure costing up to 8$ - 1$ per card in your hand, putting it in your hand.
If you do, trash a non-Victory card from your hand.
4$ Action

Not necessarily better than Explorer w/out Province (Hand with no card you want to trash, hand size was 7 before, etc.)
Not necessarily better than Lookout (If you have all the good Actions and Treasures cards in hand or if you don't want unnecessary silvers, cannot trash estates)
Not necessarily better than Trading Post (Now trashes 1 card, no estates)
Not necessarily better than JOAT (Trashing isn't optional, cannot draw you 2 cards if you had 4 cards in hand before, trashes coppers not estates).
Is still a good opener if you want silvers.
Can trash its own gain in edge cases and when the only point of playing this was to set up another GV.
Cannot trash Victory cards because it looked really strong if that was the case. If you are suffering from discard attacks, you are discarding your Victory cards anyway and you almost would rather have estates than coppers anyway.
Doesn't gain a Gold even when 2 of these collide, requires 3 or more GV to gain golds, or another case where handsize is reduced (beggar, market square, discard attacks, minion, actions that decrease handsize, black market comboes, etc.)
"If you do" is there because all Treasure cards in the supply could be gone, creating an edge case where you can claim not to have non-victory cards. It can be easily replaced with "... or reveal a hand of all Victory cards."

Editted to in hand.

[Asper]

I just playtested it without "in hand", and it lost the game, but was still useful... I guess it could work. I still don't like it...

Grand Vizier
+ 1 Action
Gain a Treasure costing up to 8$ - 1$ per card in your hand.
If you do, trash a non-Victory card from your hand.
4$ Action

Not necessarily better than Explorer w/out Province (Hand with no card you want to trash, hand size was 7 before, etc.)
Not necessarily better than Lookout (If you have all the good Actions and Treasures cards in hand or if you don't want unnecessary silvers, cannot trash estates)
Not necessarily better than Trading Post (Now trashes 1 card, no estates)
Not necessarily better than JOAT (Trashing isn't optional, cannot draw you 2 cards if you had 4 cards in hand before, trashes coppers not estates).
Is still a good opener if you want silvers.
Can trash its own gain in edge cases and when the only point of playing this was to set up another GV.
Cannot trash Victory cards because it looked really strong if that was the case. If you are suffering from discard attacks, you are discarding your Victory cards anyway and you almost would rather have estates than coppers anyway.
Doesn't gain a Gold even when 2 of these collide, requires 3 or more GV to gain golds, or another case where handsize is reduced (beggar, market square, discard attacks, minion, actions that decrease handsize, black market comboes, etc.)
"If you do" is there because all Treasure cards in the supply could be gone, creating an edge case where you can claim not to have non-victory cards. It can be easily replaced with "... or reveal a hand of all Victory cards."

That's very interesting, but i'm confused... Is the gain to-hand? If it is, it's interesting as it can be used to gain a Potion in hand whenever you need one. I don't know, but i think it's still often better than Explorer (which is easy, as Explorer is quite bad...).

[LastFootnote]

That's very interesting, but i'm confused... Is the gain to-hand? If it is, it's interesting as it can be used to gain a Potion in hand whenever you need one. I don't know, but i think it's still often better than Explorer (which is easy, as Explorer is quite bad...).

If you're using Explorer as a reference point, don't assume it's "quite bad". Explorer's badness is pretty overblown on these forums.

[eHalcyon]

Grand Vizier
+ 1 Action
Gain a Treasure costing up to 8$ - 1$ per card in your hand, putting it in your hand.
If you do, trash a non-Victory card from your hand.
4$ Action

Not necessarily better than Explorer w/out Province (Hand with no card you want to trash, hand size was 7 before, etc.)
Not necessarily better than Lookout (If you have all the good Actions and Treasures cards in hand or if you don't want unnecessary silvers, cannot trash estates)
Not necessarily better than Trading Post (Now trashes 1 card, no estates)
Not necessarily better than JOAT (Trashing isn't optional, cannot draw you 2 cards if you had 4 cards in hand before, trashes coppers not estates).
Is still a good opener if you want silvers.
Can trash its own gain in edge cases and when the only point of playing this was to set up another GV.
Cannot trash Victory cards because it looked really strong if that was the case. If you are suffering from discard attacks, you are discarding your Victory cards anyway and you almost would rather have estates than coppers anyway.
Doesn't gain a Gold even when 2 of these collide, requires 3 or more GV to gain golds, or another case where handsize is reduced (beggar, market square, discard attacks, minion, actions that decrease handsize, black market comboes, etc.)
"If you do" is there because all Treasure cards in the supply could be gone, creating an edge case where you can claim not to have non-victory cards. It can be easily replaced with "... or reveal a hand of all Victory cards."

Editted to in hand.

From a hand of 5, this is usually +1 action, +$2, gain a Silver, trash a non-Victory card.  I mean, I guess it doesn't give as much money as Explorer since you will probably be trashing Copper with it, but that trash itself is still good.  I'd say that this is better than Explorer and is very close to a Silver+ at $4, which is a Dominion design no-no.

[Asper]

That's very interesting, but i'm confused... Is the gain to-hand? If it is, it's interesting as it can be used to gain a Potion in hand whenever you need one. I don't know, but i think it's still often better than Explorer (which is easy, as Explorer is quite bad...).

If you're using Explorer as a reference point, don't assume it's "quite bad". Explorer's badness is pretty overblown on these forums.

I'm not assuming here, i'm making a statement. I know Explorer. It is better than some think, but it's still not very good.

Of course eHalcyon is absolutely right, though. To gain the card in hand is much too strong. Even without, it is basically a Jack that instead of drawing cards gets better the less you have in hand and adds an action. It's probably too strong even then.

I guess i'll stick to my last version, but without gaining the card in hand.

[Asper]

Back in the old days (when this thread wasn't only about me trying to get Grand Vizier right ) OneArmedMan suggested to change the card Amazon Village because the trashing seemed unneccessary. I've made up my mind and would like to get back to that - trashing is nice, but maybe there really should be less of it. So i was thinking to get a version of AV which does not trash but still can gain Attack cards when they are played. OneArmedMan suggested it to cost 3$ and trash itself for gaining the attack, but i'd rather not do that (i know Procession also trashes Durations from play, but i don't like that very much, either).

So how about a 4$ card like this:

Amazon Village
+ 1 Card
+ 1 Action
At the start of your next turn: + 1 Action
While this is in play, if another player plays an attack card, you may immediately gain a copy of the played attack card.
4$ Action - Duration

It's worse than a Caravan on Boards without attacks, and only a Cantrip on the turn you play it. Also the additional action helps playing attacks, but only if an AV is allready in play.

EDIT: Strangely, i never really liked Villages as a card type. It's weird how many made it into the set nonetheless
Should i also un-Village it a bit?

[Asper]

Last changes/ideas:

Amazon Village (as in last post)
+ 1 Card
+ 1 Action
At the start of your next turn:
+ 1 Action
When this is in play and another player plays an attack card, you may immeadiately gain a copy of the played attack card.
4$ Action - Duration


Unicorn (new)
+ 1$
+ 1 Buy
When this is in play and you buy a card, reveal your hand. If none of the revealed cards or cards you have in play is a copy of the card you bought, put the bought card on the top of your deck.
3$ Action

Dragon (changed)
+ 3 Cards
Each other player chooses one:
He gains a Coppers, putting one of them on top of his deck; or he reveals his hand and you decide if he has to discard it and draw 5 new cards.
5$ Action - Attack


Dwarf (changed)
+ 1 Action
Discard the top card of your deck.
Look at the bottom card of your deck. You may put it in your hand. You may put a card from your hand at the bottom of your deck.
2$ Action


Unicorn is self-explanatory, it's trying to add a little Cornucopia to the set.

Dwarf now becomes more of a counter to top-decking attacks, as it also discards those Estates or Curses. A bit more cycling, too.

Still looking for a good alternative choice for players hit by Dragon... I know it's not very good, but i'd like a choice that 1) has not been there before, 2) hits bad/good enough to make the choice actually depending on the cards a player has (Outlook vs Tunnel) and 3) does not make the card overpowered.

[One Armed Man]

For Dragon: What is "a Coppers", and how do you only put one on top of your deck?
For Unicorn: That had better be a Treasure because it is too weak otherwise. I also don't think it needs the "reveal the hand" part and it should be optional.

[Asper]

For Dragon: What is "a Coppers", and how do you only put one on top of your deck?
For Unicorn: That had better be a Treasure because it is too weak otherwise. I also don't think it needs the "reveal the hand" part and it should be optional.

Ah crap, i originally thought that Dragon could give out two Coppers, but that seemed too harsh. Maybe it isn't. I also see i underlined the wrong part of the card...
So:

Dragon
5$ Action - Attack
+ 3 Cards
Each other player chooses one:
He gains 2 Coppers, putting one of them on top of his deck; or he reveals his hand and you decide if he has to discard it and draw 5 new cards.


All you said about Unicorn are good points, too. I'm sorry i neither read that post again to notice the mistake on Dragon nor thought Unicorn through enough before posting.
So:

Unicorn
4$ Treasure
1$
+ 1 Buy
When this is in play and you buy a card, if none of the cards you have in play is a copy of the card you bought, you may put the bought card on the top of your deck.