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[werothegreat]

What sort of theme will there be?  The large expansions tend to introduce a new mechanic (durations, victory tokens, when-gain effects).  While Alchemy introduced the Potion, the cards themselves were simply Action-centered, and Cornucopia just had variety-centered cards.  So my thought is that Guilds will not introduce a new mechanic, but focus around a heretofore unfocused-on aspect of the game.  Someone has bandied about the idea of the discard pile for the theme - what else could it be?  Interaction?  Buys?

Now, we can't rule out a new mechanic - Donald X did say (and I'm paraphrasing) that this one was going to be wacky.

[sandstorm]

I definitely think there will be some kind of new mechanic.  This is solely based on comments Donald has made when he talked about deciding to do this expansion instead of Seaside 2.

[DG]

I'm guessing there will be worker cards and guild cards. Workers have their own action but you can use a guild to give them a special action. Workers will be a new supply pile, always present for guilds.

[Davio]

Neat idea, DG.

How do you imagine this would work?

Like: your basic worker is +1 Card, +1 Action but if you play a Workers Guild first they all become Villages?
Or if you play a Merchants Guild they all become Peddlers?

[Drab Emordnilap]

Crazy idea --

Worker - $0
Action

+1 Action
+$1


You get 7 of them, instead of your starting Copper (depending on the percentage of Guilds cards in your Kingdom). Guilds's theme is "playing actions". Peddler and Conspirator would be examples of on-theme cards.

[RTT]

Crazy idea --

Worker - $0
Action

+1 Action
+$1


You get 7 of them, instead of your starting Copper (depending on the percentage of Guilds cards in your Kingdom). Guilds's theme is "playing actions". Peddler and Conspirator would be examples of on-theme cards.


noone would buy smithy and other terminal draw anymore

i think this would be a bit boring (espacialy online) and leads to longer turns
example for a turn 1:

...plays a worker getting 1 action and 1$
...plays a worker ...
...plays a worker ...
...plays a worker ...
...buys a peddler

noone would buy a smithy or other terminal draw anymore and conspirator and scrying pool would be owerpowered

[Drab Emordnilap]

I'd like to think that Guilds was designed long enough ago that specific online interface quirks weren't a consideration. In person I'd plop down a hand of workers the same way I would a hand of Copper.

Also, yes, Smithy would be worse, but Shelters makes cards that care about Estates, Victory Cards, or the cost of cards in your deck worse. Colony games make lots of cheap cards worse (even Silver).

[Davio]

I like "cards that influence other cards played after this card" as an idea.

So in my previous example the Guilds, if played first, would modify the Workers.

Another simple way to do this would be:

SomeCard
+1 Action
+$1 for every Action played after this

Or a bit more difficult:

SomeOtherCard
+1 Action
Every time you play an Action after this, you may discard a card. If you do: +1 Card.

[LastFootnote]

The thing is, we know Guilds has 13 Kingdom cards. Unless some of the have fewer than 10 cards, there's only 7 cards left over. I doubt we'll see a Worker stack.

[enfynet]

I must have a completely different definition for Guild from outside the gaming community because nothing you guys are saying makes sense to me. :-/

[AHoppy]

The thing is, we know Guilds has 13 Kingdom cards. Unless some of the have fewer than 10 cards, there's only 7 cards left over. I doubt we'll see a Worker stack.

My thought is the 7 extra cards are 7 different guilds.  you have to do something special to earn those cards.  Like the first person to buy a province has to take the builder's guild card, and maybe it isn't a very great one.  Or the first person to play a certain number of actions or money cards gets some action guild or banker's guild.  Not sure what the guilds will do, But I think it would be cool having different objectives to work towards.  So like engine vs. big money, you could go for the actions guild, which would be able to enable an engine on a board otherwise dominated by BM.  The banker's guild would make BM more competitive on a action heavy board.  There could be an alt vp one as well.  Now obviously they all wouldn't be useful in every game, but maybe they would make multiple paths more viable on boards more dominated by a particular deck type.

[werothegreat]

Maybe the Guilds are distributed at random and give different alternate Victory conditions.

[AHoppy]

That would be pretty cool too.  or something like the guilds from 7 wonders where only a few of them are available.  And maybe instead of gaining them by being the first to achieve something, it could be "you can't buy this until you do X"

[SirPeebles]

Regarding the name, he did say that he made the cards first, and then gave the name, rather than vice-versa.  I feel that the only expansions titles to date which really reflect the new mechanics are Prosperity and arguably Cornucopia (although it originated as just being harvest festival themed.)

[eHalcyon]

The thing is, we know Guilds has 13 Kingdom cards. Unless some of the have fewer than 10 cards, there's only 7 cards left over. I doubt we'll see a Worker stack.

My thought is the 7 extra cards are 7 different guilds.  you have to do something special to earn those cards.  Like the first person to buy a province has to take the builder's guild card, and maybe it isn't a very great one.  Or the first person to play a certain number of actions or money cards gets some action guild or banker's guild.  Not sure what the guilds will do, But I think it would be cool having different objectives to work towards.  So like engine vs. big money, you could go for the actions guild, which would be able to enable an engine on a board otherwise dominated by BM.  The banker's guild would make BM more competitive on a action heavy board.  There could be an alt vp one as well.  Now obviously they all wouldn't be useful in every game, but maybe they would make multiple paths more viable on boards more dominated by a particular deck type.

So kind of like Achievements in Innovation?  That would be neat.

[whaleyland]

I agree that Guilds will utilize the 7 extra cards, but I think there will be only 6 guild cards (one for each player for up to a 6 player game). I think the seventh card will be a blank. And I also kind of think that they may be items that are gained by revealing cards in hand as an action. Players will be limited to 1 Guild per game. Thus:

Barons' Guild – Reveal 5 Estates to gain this card.
Nobles' Guild – Reveal 4 Duchies to gain this card.
Royals' Guild – Reveal 3 Provinces to gain this card.
Silversmiths' Guild – Reveal 7 Silvers to gain this card.
Goldsmiths' Guild – Reveal 5 Gold to gain this card.
Villain's Guild – Reveal 3 Curses to gain this card.

The cards themselves will be slightly unbalanced (like Prizes) but also more focused on what earned the player the Guild. Thus...

Reveal an Estate. If you do, gain a Gold.
Reveal a Duchy. If you do, gain a Silver and an Estate.
Reveal a Province. If you do, gain a Gold and a Duchy.
Once per turn as an action, trade a Copper for a Silver.
Once per turn as an action, trade a Silver for a Gold
At game end, all Curses are worth 1 Victory Point.

[Davio]

The thing is, we know Guilds has 13 Kingdom cards. Unless some of the have fewer than 10 cards, there's only 7 cards left over. I doubt we'll see a Worker stack.

My thought is the 7 extra cards are 7 different guilds.  you have to do something special to earn those cards.  Like the first person to buy a province has to take the builder's guild card, and maybe it isn't a very great one.  Or the first person to play a certain number of actions or money cards gets some action guild or banker's guild.  Not sure what the guilds will do, But I think it would be cool having different objectives to work towards.  So like engine vs. big money, you could go for the actions guild, which would be able to enable an engine on a board otherwise dominated by BM.  The banker's guild would make BM more competitive on a action heavy board.  There could be an alt vp one as well.  Now obviously they all wouldn't be useful in every game, but maybe they would make multiple paths more viable on boards more dominated by a particular deck type.

Again a pretty cool idea.

I love how these guilds automatically help the strategy you're already going for.

Another one for rushes could be: If you gained 2 or more cards this turn, gain [ThisGuild]. And [ThisGuild] would be something like: +1 Action, gain a card costing up to $4 or something.

[Morgrim7]

Silversmiths' Guild – Reveal 7 Silvers to gain this card.

thats....a lot of silvers.

[AHoppy]

what about this:  Instead of earning the guilds, there is a draft for them at the beginning of the game.  That might end up being too unbalanced, since there aren't enough guilds for everyone to get the one they want, but in that case it would require you to plan ahead more than usual since you'll pick the guild best suited to the what you think the best strategy will be

[jbrecken]

Maybe the "guilds" in the name are collaborations between players, and the new game mechanic would be something like an attack, only beneficial instead of harmful.  Something like a card would be marked "ACTION - ASSIST" and for example could say "+2 cards +1 action, +1 card for another player you choose."  And perhaps there would be a new REACTION card that can be revealed when a player that isn't you plays an assist on someone who isn't you that gives you twice the benefit.  Granted, this wouldn't add much to two-player games.

[Awaclus]

Maybe the "guilds" in the name are collaborations between players, and the new game mechanic would be something like an attack, only beneficial instead of harmful.  Something like a card would be marked "ACTION - ASSIST" and for example could say "+2 cards +1 action, +1 card for another player you choose."  And perhaps there would be a new REACTION card that can be revealed when a player that isn't you plays an assist on someone who isn't you that gives you twice the benefit.  Granted, this wouldn't add much to two-player games.

I don't think Donald X. would make political cards on purpose.

I'm betting that "Guilds" won't be an actual mechanic (unless this is confirmed already and I have missed it).

[ftl]

I think it's been mentioned, but messing with the discard pile seems like it would be a reasonable mechanic. Dark Ages had stuff which messes with trashing, so why not discarding? A few more on-discard abilities like Tunnel's, cards which count your discard pile or gain copies of cards in the discard pile or stuff like that.

Would have nothing to do with 'guilds' the name, but that's okay.

[enfynet]

In the secret histories, are there any cards that are mentioned to have come from the last two expansions that we haven't seen yet?

[AHoppy]

I think it's been mentioned, but messing with the discard pile seems like it would be a reasonable mechanic. Dark Ages had stuff which messes with trashing, so why not discarding? A few more on-discard abilities like Tunnel's, cards which count your discard pile or gain copies of cards in the discard pile or stuff like that.

Would have nothing to do with 'guilds' the name, but that's okay.

I don't like this idea.  Just because things already got complicated with the keep track rule from dark ages, I feel like discard rules would get even more complex.  besides, we already have hermit, inn, scavenger and I suppose chancellor that mess with your discard.  Wouldn't Donald have saved those for guilds then?

[werothegreat]

So, in the Donald X interview thread, he pretty much let slip that there definitely is a new mechanic for this expansion.

[enfynet]

I feel like we were expecting one already... Every expansion has introduced something new.

[werothegreat]

I feel like we were expecting one already... Every expansion has introduced something new.

Well, not really Cornucopia.  I mean, there's Tournament and Young Witch as isolated cards, but other than that, no new mechanics.

[enfynet]

Well cards that are not in the Supply was something new. Unless you consider Black Market that changed how you can acquire cards.

[Davio]

Promos don't really count.

[LastFootnote]

I wouldn't call it new info. We've known for a while that Guilds "has its own thing".

[Awaclus]

Well, not really Cornucopia.  I mean, there's Tournament and Young Witch as isolated cards, but other than that, no new mechanics.

Then there's the "name matters" mechanic.

[AHoppy]

If there is a brand new mechanic, everyone could be assigned a random guild early game, replacing a starting estate (or more likely copper, since it would be weird with shelters).  That's why there are 7: So there is always at least one left out, even with 6 players.  So you can't know who has/doesn't have something

[werothegreat]

If there is a brand new mechanic, everyone could be assigned a random guild early game, replacing a starting estate (or more likely copper, since it would be weird with shelters).  That's why there are 7: So there is always at least one left out, even with 6 players.  So you can't know who has/doesn't have something

It's possible we might be reading too much into the title.  We didn't engage in actual Intrigues, there was no Hinterland card, and Horn of Plenty is just one card.

[Davio]

If there is a brand new mechanic, everyone could be assigned a random guild early game, replacing a starting estate (or more likely copper, since it would be weird with shelters).  That's why there are 7: So there is always at least one left out, even with 6 players.  So you can't know who has/doesn't have something

Well, the secrecy will only last a short while though, otherwise you get into that awkward "discard carefully" business instead of "I'll just drop everything here and draw 5(/3) new cards"

[AHoppy]

If there is a brand new mechanic, everyone could be assigned a random guild early game, replacing a starting estate (or more likely copper, since it would be weird with shelters).  That's why there are 7: So there is always at least one left out, even with 6 players.  So you can't know who has/doesn't have something

It's possible we might be reading too much into the title.  We didn't engage in actual Intrigues, there was no Hinterland card, and Horn of Plenty is just one card.

I agree, but at the same time we can hope   I think it would be fun to have actual guilds.

But if you think about it: Conspirator, Minion, Masquerade, Saboteur, maybe even Torturer are intrigue themed.  Maybe that's just in name, but the mechanics even still kind of reflect an intrigue theme.  I'm not sure how to explain Hinterlands, but Prosperity and alchemy both reflect their respective themes.  Perhaps Guilds will be more like an Alchemy expansion, with a new gameplay mechanic, like guilds.

[AHoppy]

If there is a brand new mechanic, everyone could be assigned a random guild early game, replacing a starting estate (or more likely copper, since it would be weird with shelters).  That's why there are 7: So there is always at least one left out, even with 6 players.  So you can't know who has/doesn't have something

Well, the secrecy will only last a short while though, otherwise you get into that awkward "discard carefully" business instead of "I'll just drop everything here and draw 5(/3) new cards"

True... Then maybe a special alternate victory card just for you that you keep off to the side, and gives you an extra goal to go for?  Similar to the railroad barons in Railways of the World

EDIT: Ooops, wero said the same thing earlier...

[LastFootnote]

True... Then maybe a special alternate victory card just for you that you keep off to the side, and gives you an extra goal to go for?  Similar to the railroad barons in Railways of the World

The issue here is that Dominion isn't built for that kind of radical asymmetry. For a given board, one of the goals may be easy to achieve, while another may be nigh impossible. I don't think most players are going to enjoy that kind of arbitrary handicap.

[ednever]

I built a card for the kingfom card challenge that had a new mechanic. I'll bet the mechanic itself could work in a number of different ways to create different cards.

Card was:

$2
Action/duration

You may pay more than $2 for this card. For every $1 paid over $2, choose one:
- +1 action next turn
- +1 card next turn
- trash a card in hand

-----
Basic concept though is "over paying for cards".

It doesn't exist in any other expansion. And it would allow for a whole new space. Basically over-pay to do any of the things cards do now:

- hand out curses
- trash cards
- +buys
- get benefits next turn ($, actions, cards)
- other attacks on other players (discard, trash, steal, give coppers)
- sifting (ie overpay and during your draw phase you may discard any card from your hand and draw a card for any card you discard)
- vp tokens (or vp cards: every $ you over pay, gain an estate)
- gainers (maybe too similar to +buys)
- upgraded (every $ you pay, trash a card and gain a card equal to card cost +amount over paid)
- combinations of the above


I think it would work with enough play testing. It would also be complicated (which fits DXV's hints). If the mechanic isn't present with this expansion, maybe we push DXV to make another one to explore the space... ;-)

(obviously some of those ideas above would not fly: benefits next turn may be too complicated and be a combination of this plus seaside. But others would)

Biggest argument against this I see is its too similar to Hinterlands in that it's stuff that happens when you buy/gain cards. But maybe it's different enough?

Like Hinterlands you could also have cards that give you the ability to overpay. Like:

$x, action
Effect 1
During your buy phase you may pay $1 to have x effect


I'm kind of making this up as I go along, but I'm liking it the more I type it out.
If people think this isnt crazy, I'll create a new thread. Whether this matches Guilds or not, I'll bet thr collective minds of the forum could create an expansion with this mechanic..,

Might be fun to do.

15 cards
Xx attacks
Xx non attack interactions
Xx $5+ cards
Xx villages
Xx victory cards
Etc.

A new card design contest?
(I think DXV's complaint with out last card design contest is that it wasn't built like an expansion that could work together)

Ed

[LastFootnote]

A new card design contest?
(I think DXV's complaint with out last card design contest is that it wasn't built like an expansion that could work together)

Donald didn't have any complaints about the last card design contest because he doesn't look at fan cards. The fact that the set lacked cohesiveness was one of my complaints about it, for what that's worth.

[AHoppy]

True... Then maybe a special alternate victory card just for you that you keep off to the side, and gives you an extra goal to go for?  Similar to the railroad barons in Railways of the World

The issue here is that Dominion isn't built for that kind of radical asymmetry. For a given board, one of the goals may be easy to achieve, while another may be nigh impossible. I don't think most players are going to enjoy that kind of arbitrary handicap.

I agree.  That's the biggest problem with that idea.  I do like the idea though that you would get to pick which one, so you could pick the one you think would fit your strategy best.  But then you would need multiple copies.

[eHalcyon]

True... Then maybe a special alternate victory card just for you that you keep off to the side, and gives you an extra goal to go for?  Similar to the railroad barons in Railways of the World

The issue here is that Dominion isn't built for that kind of radical asymmetry. For a given board, one of the goals may be easy to achieve, while another may be nigh impossible. I don't think most players are going to enjoy that kind of arbitrary handicap.

What about this -- at the start of the game, a random Guild card is chosen which provides special rules for the entire game.  That is, one card for all players, not a different card for each player.  The Guild could change a fundamental rule, e.g. always draw 6 cards in clean-up instead of 5; always have 2 actions or 2 buys per turn; Estates cost $1 extra (hooray tfb!) or provide some extra points for fulfilling certain criteria (have at least 7 Copper and 3 Estates/Shelters at the end of the game; have one of every Kingdom card at the end of the game; piledrive any pile; have no Provinces; have no Gold).

This would be akin to the Kingdom Builder scoring cards, or the Twist cards in Nefarious.

[ftl]

That seems reasonable. It's something Donald's done in other games, and though it may be less than straightforward to adapt to Dominion, it could probably be done. That would count as "having its own thing going on".

I would guess that "here's a change to the rules of the game", like extra actions or buys or cards during cleanup or something would be a little better than "bonus points for following a particular strategy" in terms of balance.

[enfynet]

Maybe they could be a pile like Knights where you can buy the top one to deactivate it? While this card is on top of a Supply pile blahblahblah... When you Buy this card, trash it.... or something? Then if the one on top isn't working you can disable it and open up a new one?

[SirPeebles]

I built a card for the kingfom card challenge that had a new mechanic. I'll bet the mechanic itself could work in a number of different ways to create different cards.

Card was:

$2
Action/duration

You may pay more than $2 for this card. For every $1 paid over $2, choose one:
- +1 action next turn
- +1 card next turn
- trash a card in hand

-----
Basic concept though is "over paying for cards".

It doesn't exist in any other expansion. And it would allow for a whole new space. Basically over-pay to do any of the things cards do now:

- hand out curses
- trash cards
- +buys
- get benefits next turn ($, actions, cards)
- other attacks on other players (discard, trash, steal, give coppers)
- sifting (ie overpay and during your draw phase you may discard any card from your hand and draw a card for any card you discard)
- vp tokens (or vp cards: every $ you over pay, gain an estate)
- gainers (maybe too similar to +buys)
- upgraded (every $ you pay, trash a card and gain a card equal to card cost +amount over paid)
- combinations of the above


I think it would work with enough play testing. It would also be complicated (which fits DXV's hints). If the mechanic isn't present with this expansion, maybe we push DXV to make another one to explore the space... ;-)

(obviously some of those ideas above would not fly: benefits next turn may be too complicated and be a combination of this plus seaside. But others would)

Biggest argument against this I see is its too similar to Hinterlands in that it's stuff that happens when you buy/gain cards. But maybe it's different enough?

Like Hinterlands you could also have cards that give you the ability to overpay. Like:

$x, action
Effect 1
During your buy phase you may pay $1 to have x effect


I'm kind of making this up as I go along, but I'm liking it the more I type it out.
If people think this isnt crazy, I'll create a new thread. Whether this matches Guilds or not, I'll bet thr collective minds of the forum could create an expansion with this mechanic..,

Might be fun to do.

15 cards
Xx attacks
Xx non attack interactions
Xx $5+ cards
Xx villages
Xx victory cards
Etc.

A new card design contest?
(I think DXV's complaint with out last card design contest is that it wasn't built like an expansion that could work together)

Ed

Congratulations on the correct "over paying" guess!