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Author Topic: Ruminate: A remodelling Feast variant  (Read 4521 times)

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NoMoreFun

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Ruminate: A remodelling Feast variant
« on: March 03, 2013, 03:54:04 am »
+1

Ruminate
Action - $4
Trash any card you have in play (counting this). Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

You trade combos with Highway and Procession etc. with the ability to Remodel cards you've already played.

I was also thinking of making it a Treasure worth $0 so it can trash coppers, but then we're getting into strictly better territory. Perhaps then:

Medallion
Treasure - $5
Worth $1
Trash any card you have in play (counting this). Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

Compare to counterfeit. For coppers, you lose the $1 and +buy and the advantage with other treasures, but you get action and treasure upgrading and self trashing (for a $6) as options.
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dondon151

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Re: Ruminate: A remodelling Feast variant
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2013, 03:56:57 am »
0

Isn't Ruminate strictly better than Feast except for with TR/KC (but with KC, you can gain a Province by trashing the KC)?
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Ruminate: A remodelling Feast variant
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2013, 04:05:06 am »
0

Isn't Ruminate strictly better than Feast except for with TR/KC (but with KC, you can gain a Province by trashing the KC)?

Also with Highway/Bridge/Princess/BM+Quarry

Also when you want to gain a card that isn't a $5 (as you sometimes do; such as when you want only one copy of a $5 card and your feast doesn't come up soon enough)

It's probably another Noble Brigand/Thief situation.
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Asper

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Re: Ruminate: A remodelling Feast variant
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2013, 10:50:32 am »
0

Isn't Ruminate strictly better than Feast except for with TR/KC (but with KC, you can gain a Province by trashing the KC)?

Also with Highway/Bridge/Princess/BM+Quarry

Also when you want to gain a card that isn't a $5 (as you sometimes do; such as when you want only one copy of a $5 card and your feast doesn't come up soon enough)

It's probably another Noble Brigand/Thief situation.

Those two are good points. Feast also allows to gain a card "up to" 5$, and is therefore a bit more flexible than "exactly one more". Still, cost reducers, "Play it X times"-cards and boards where you prefer a cheaper card are far from present in every game, so i'd like to think it is better than Feast often enough to make some more tweaks necessary.

EDIT: Medallion seems nice. I don't know if the one time you need to play it more before it becomes a Gold is enough to make it not "better" than Cache, though...
« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 10:54:44 am by Asper »
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soulnet

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Re: Ruminate: A remodelling Feast variant
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2013, 02:51:44 pm »
0

I like both, however, it seems to me that Medallion is going to be trashed for Gold 95% of the times (i.e., everytime you do want a Gold, which for some engines you may not want).

Using Medallion to trash Coppers seems pretty awful (even worse than Loan, which is already ok but not great, and costs $3, doing that with a $5 would be extremely slow). Medallion may seem nice to deal with transition treasures or even actions (Silver in engine or Colony games, Potions that you don't need anymore, cursers when Curses are out), but those cases are not that common and you probably don't have lots of transition treasures anyway, so its hard to make them collide with yout Medallion.

Its really similar to Upgrade, worse for engines, better for BM. But in BM, you would most likely trash it for Gold at the first chance. So, how different would it be from "worth $1, trash this, gain a Gold"? Probably not a lot.

EDIT: Maybe "gain a $6 cost" as you would probably take GM if its on the board, and maybe also Goons, over Gold.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 02:52:50 pm by soulnet »
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One Armed Man

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Re: Ruminate: A remodelling Feast variant
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2013, 03:07:55 am »
0

This card gave me a silly idea (to many alternatives to print, especially with Shelters and Ruins):
Combine
Action - $4
Trash 2 cards from your hand. If you and they have the same name, gain the following depending on the trashed cards:
Coppers -> Silver
Non-copper treasure -> Gold
Curse -> Duchy
Estate -> Duchy
Non-Estate Victory -> Province
Action -> Province

Weaker Combine 2
Action - $4
Trash a card from your hand. You can trash another card from your hand that shares a name with the trashed card. If you do, gain a card costing exactly $3 more than the trashed cards.

Stronger Combine 2
Action - $4
Trash a card from your hand. You can trash another card from your hand that shares a type or subtype with the trashed card. If you do, gain a card costing exactly $3 more than the cheaper card.
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Asper

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Re: Ruminate: A remodelling Feast variant
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2013, 06:04:43 am »
0

How about:


Medallion
Treasure - $4
Worth $1
When you discard this from play, you may trash any other card you have in play. If you do, gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.


Btw. Medallion (either version) is better than Loan as you can make use of the Copper before you trash it. also you can decide which Treasure to hit.
Problem with both (and reason why i think 4$ is fine): Curses and Estates are dead cards and can never be trashed by this.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 06:05:47 am by Asper »
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soulnet

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Re: Ruminate: A remodelling Feast variant
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2013, 08:16:51 am »
0

Btw. Medallion (either version) is better than Loan as you can make use of the Copper before you trash it. also you can decide which Treasure to hit.

I just compared with Loan as a Copper trasher, Medallion of course has other uses.

The Treasure you trash with Loan was not in your hand before, so you can use all Treasures in your hand with Loan. This maybe a little better at the beginning, because of the choice, you can be almost sure it will not hit your first couple of Silvers or so. And for $4, you have a guarranteed target for remodeling Silver :). I like it that it cannot trash itself, so its not almost always way better than Feast.

"Any other card" should be clarified, can I trash another instance of Medallion? I would say yes.

If I play two Medallions, can I trash both? (each to the effect of the other) I think no reasonable wording will allow this, which may be a major disadvantage and not just an edge case, but is probably not worth the trouble.
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soulnet

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Re: Ruminate: A remodelling Feast variant
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2013, 08:20:46 am »
0

This card gave me a silly idea (to many alternatives to print, especially with Shelters and Ruins):
Combine
Action - $4
Trash 2 cards from your hand. If you and they have the same name, gain the following depending on the trashed cards:
Coppers -> Silver
Non-copper treasure -> Gold
Curse -> Duchy
Estate -> Duchy
Non-Estate Victory -> Province
Action -> Province

Weaker Combine 2
Action - $4
Trash a card from your hand. You can trash another card from your hand that shares a name with the trashed card. If you do, gain a card costing exactly $3 more than the trashed cards.

Stronger Combine 2
Action - $4
Trash a card from your hand. You can trash another card from your hand that shares a type or subtype with the trashed card. If you do, gain a card costing exactly $3 more than the cheaper card.

I like the Weaker Combine, because its wording makes the most sense and its the most understandable, and mantains the spirit. I would say "If you do trash two cards," as in Treasure Map. Also, the "more" should be clarified to mean "more than one of them" because "more than the trashed cards" may be interpreted "more than the total cost" which is twice of what I understand you want.

Note that Combine is really powerful with spammable Action/Victory, trash two Great Halls and get Two Provinces? Same with Nobles, but at least Nobles are expensive.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Ruminate: A remodelling Feast variant
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2013, 09:23:52 am »
+10

This card gave me a silly idea (to many alternatives to print, especially with Shelters and Ruins):
Combine
Action - $4
Trash 2 cards from your hand. If you and they have the same name, gain the following depending on the trashed cards:
Coppers -> Silver
Non-copper treasure -> Gold
Curse -> Duchy
Estate -> Duchy
Non-Estate Victory -> Province
Action -> Province

So if I trash two Coppers and my name is Copper, I gain a Silver. But if I trash two Coppers and my name is Schmitty, I gain nothing? Seems pretty niche.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 09:26:21 am by LastFootnote »
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Asper

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Re: Ruminate: A remodelling Feast variant
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2013, 10:35:26 am »
+1

This card gave me a silly idea (to many alternatives to print, especially with Shelters and Ruins):
Combine
Action - $4
Trash 2 cards from your hand. If you and they have the same name, gain the following depending on the trashed cards:
Coppers -> Silver
Non-copper treasure -> Gold
Curse -> Duchy
Estate -> Duchy
Non-Estate Victory -> Province
Action -> Province

So if I trash two Coppers and my name is Copper, I gain a Silver. But if I trash two Coppers and my name is Schmitty, I gain nothing? Seems pretty niche.

I can't give enough +1's for this ;D
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One Armed Man

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Re: Ruminate: A remodelling Feast variant
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2013, 11:13:43 am »
0

Rather than 'trash another card that shares a name with the trashed card', I think it should be 'trash another copy of the trashed card'. It's shorter, cleaner, and—barring some really strange cards—means the same thing.

Consolidate (Weaker Combine 2)
Action - $3
Trash a card from your hand. You can trash another card from your hand that shares a name with the trashed card trash from your hand another copy of the trashed card. If you trashed two cards, gain a card costing up to $4 more than one of them.

I made it cost less and give more benefit. (And it still cannot trash 2 other copies of itself for Province)

Cargo is a cool name for the Treasure Ruminate.

Edit: Also, maybe another card that can trash from the discards (though I normally prefer those ensure you have cards in your discards first).
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 12:45:57 pm by One Armed Man »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Ruminate: A remodelling Feast variant
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2013, 11:22:19 am »
0

Rather than 'trash another card that shares a name with the trashed card', I think it should be 'trash another copy of the trashed card'. It's shorter, cleaner, and—barring some really strange cards—means the same thing.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 11:55:31 am by LastFootnote »
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soulnet

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Re: Ruminate: A remodelling Feast variant
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2013, 11:15:39 am »
0

Consolidate (Weaker Combine 2)
Action - $3
Trash a card from your hand. You can trash from your hand another copy of the trashed card. If you trashed two cards, gain a card costing up to $4 more than one of them.

Is there a good reason for the $4? It seems a little much. And its incredibly swingy in the opening, trash two Estates and gain a Gold? I think in many board it is forced to open Consolidate/Consolidate just to improve the likelyhood on getting to do that, and that's no fun. I would reduce to $3, so you don't get a lucky crack at a $6 directly from your starting cards (you can still do it with two other Consolidates or two Silvers, but that's ok).

I think with "up to $3" is may be comparable with Remake for the opening (trash Coppers and gain Silver until you clash with two Estates). Remake has better longevity (trash your 4s for 5s or Duchies), but it also costs more and Remake is a really powerful $4. If going for an engine, especially one that draws my deck, I would open with Consolidate with +3 instead of Remake almost any day. Same if its a Cursing board (with engine or without it). Being able to trash-for-benefit both Copper and Estate is really powerful, no card currently does that (Chapel and Steward only trash, and Remake only gives benefit for trashing Estates*).

*Almost always.

With this analysis for the +$3, I think that +$4 is definitely too much. Costing 3, you can get your 4 in the opening so just being able to get 3s by trashing Copper seems ok. Trashing Estates for Gold, as I said, seems too much. Trashing 3s for 7s instead of just 6s probably does not make a really big difference, and you will probably not trash more expensive things all that much.

EDIT: I really like this card. I tried to do something similar once but could not really make it work. The remodel part was missing.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Ruminate: A remodelling Feast variant
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2013, 07:16:07 am »
+1

I really want this to be a $4 card

Cargo
Treasure - $4
Worth $0
When you play this, trash a card you have in play (counting this). Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.
---
When you trash this, gain 2 Coppers, putting them into your hand.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Ruminate: A remodelling Feast variant
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2013, 08:25:34 pm »
+1

Rethinking:

Cargo
Treasure - $5
Worth $2
When you play this, trash any card you have in play (including this). Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.
---
When you trash this, gain 2 Coppers.

Bandit Camp shows that a gold that misses a reshuffle is just about worth 5. This is more flexible, so it's a "delayed" Cache. The coppers will also miss a reshuffle, so it's an interesting tradeoff if you want to just use it as a oneshot.
It's similar to counterfeit for trashing copper, without the buy. For silver, the tradeoff is between gaining a $4 card and an extra $1 and +1 buy. It will be good for alt VP games. It's good for trashing ruins, especially ruined village.
Compared to upgrade, it gets an extra $1 instead of +1 card, but it can't trash estates, hovels or curses.
A lot of options for such a simple card.
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KingZog3

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Re: Ruminate: A remodelling Feast variant
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2013, 01:36:12 pm »
0

I would reduce to $3, so you don't get a lucky crack at a $6 directly from your starting cards (you can still do it with two other Consolidates or two Silvers, but that's ok).

Even if it's "Up to $3 more" it's almost better than Trading post. True it doesn't go into your hand, but you can open with 2 of them. Its also more versatile, so I would go with it more often than trading post.
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One Armed Man

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Re: Ruminate: A remodelling Feast variant
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2013, 01:37:30 am »
0

I would reduce to $3, so you don't get a lucky crack at a $6 directly from your starting cards (you can still do it with two other Consolidates or two Silvers, but that's ok).

Even if it's "Up to $3 more" it's almost better than Trading post. True it doesn't go into your hand, but you can open with 2 of them. Its also more versatile, so I would go with it more often than trading post.
Much of the time I use Trading Post I am trashing different cards, say Estate-Copper, Curse-Estate, Ruined Market-Survivors, Necropolis-Overgrown Estate, etc.

Also, I would make this  Consolidate (Weaker Combine 3)
Action - $3
Trash a card from your hand. You can trash another copy of the trashed card. If you trashed two cards, gain a card costing up to $4 $3 more than one of them.

Here is a similar card from my fan expansion.
Feoffee
Action - $2
Trash up to 2 cards from your hand. If you trashed 2 cards that share a type, gain a card costing up to $5 that shares a type with both the trashed cards.
[Rules Note: Types include Action, Curse, Treasure, and Victory]
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Ruminate: A remodelling Feast variant
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2013, 09:43:37 pm »
0

I'm now leaning towards

Cargo:
Treasure - $4
Worth $1
When you play this, trash a card you have in play. Gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.
---
When you trash this, gain 2 Coppers, putting them in your hand.

It's often better than Feast, but Feast is one of the weakest cards in the game, and it's not STRICTLY better so I'm ok with it.
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