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[catsclaw]

See this playthough: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201109/22/game-20110922-062905-5e7bf8f9.html

Specifically, Turn 11.  You can see I had two King's Courts, and I start by King's Courting a Caravan.  Next turn you can see I drew my entire hand, and (although it's not clear from the transcript) I never drew my second King's Court.

What happened to it?  You can see it's back at the end of the game, when my opponent resigns and I have three (having bought one on my last turn).  You can even count the number of cards in my deck, and see they're all accounted for; the only cards I don't play on the last turn are three Estates and an Ironworks.

[Geronimoo]

KC gets put aside together with the Duration card it was played with. It's in the rules somewhere.

[DsnowMan]

From Seaside rules:

"If you play or modify a Duration card with another card, that other card also stays in your play area until it is no longer doing anything"

You can hit 'info' on ISO to see that your KC is sitting there with your Caravan in your play area.

MODs: move topic to rules?

[catsclaw]

Am I correct that there's no way to infer this behavior from the card?  And I suppose this also applies to cards like Golem?

This seems like the first Dominion ruling that seems to violate common sense.  What does "play or modify" mean?  What about "doing anything"?

If I play a Caravan and then a Quarry, the Quarry modifies the cost of the duration card.  And the cost of the Caravan remains modified until it's no longer in play, so you have to leave the Quarry sitting around with the Caravan, wouldn't you?

[Buggz]

The keyword here is "duration". The KC stays out to show that you've played your duration card thrice and not just once.

Donald is a fan of gameplay that "keeps you honest", thus the KC under the caravan will both remind you to draw those extra cards AND show the other players why you're drawing so many cards.

[guided]

Am I correct that there's no way to infer this behavior from the card?

Dude! Chill out and read the Seaside rulebook. There's no need to infer anything since it's spelled out right there.

The only additional ruling that isn't clear from just reading the rules is what happens to chained TRs and KCs that have Duration cards on some branches of the chain. Donald's most recent ruling is that you get to clean up any TR or KC that isn't directly modifying a Duration card. (A previous ruling was less permissive about cleaning things up and much more complicated to adjudicate.)

[DStu]

I think if you want to get picky about Quarry/Bridge like that because of
"if you play or modify a Duration card with another card, that other card also stays in your play area until it is no longer doing anything",

you must come to the conclusion that Bridge/Quarry stay out forever if they where once played with Duartion cards in the kingdom. As they are doing something all the time. And not only until the Duration card gets discarded.

But I think the correct play is also consistent, as Quarry/Bridge "do something" until they get discarded. So as soon as you discard them, they do nothing anymore, and you are allowed to discard them.
OR the "it" means the Duration card, in which there is no need for thinking at all.

[AJD]

I do agree with catsclaw that "play or modify" in the rulebook seems extremely vague and there are lots of ways to misinterpret it. The intended meaning, which is apparently just "if you TR or KC a Duration, the TR or KC stays out until the end of the turn on which the second play of the Duration fully resolves", couldn't be stated in those terms in the rulebook because KC hadn't yet been released when those rules were published (and perhaps some other future card will be released that it also applies to)... but that leaves us with the oddly-phrased "play or modify" rule.

[michaeljb]

Maybe it's just me, but the intuitive thing for me was always to leave out the Throne Room with the Duration cards, even before I read the rulebook.

[DsnowMan]

The Seaside rules specifically tell you what to do with TR when you play it on a Duration card. The Prosperity rules repeat the ruling for KC. The rules are really, really, clear. TR & KC stay out if you used them to play a Duration, until you clean up the Duration. No inference needed.

Except on what to do with chained TR,KC that hit durations. Donald had to make a new ruling on that one.

[AJD]

TR & KC stay out if you used them to play a Duration, until you clean up the Duration.

...with the exception of Tactician, where you clean up the TR immediately but leave the Tactician out? I think?

Anyway, I agree that the Seaside rules specifically tell you what to do with TR when you play it on a Duration card and there's no ambiguity there. However, the fact that it's given as a special case of "if you play or modify a Duration card with another card" is confusing, because there's no clear indication of what "play or modify... with another card" actually means except that what TR does is an example of it.

[DStu]

TR & KC stay out if you used them to play a Duration, until you clean up the Duration.

...with the exception of Tactician, where you clean up the TR immediately but leave the Tactician out? I think?

That's because Tactician is not a Duration the second time.

[AJD]

Tactician is a Duration. It says "Duration" on the bottom of the card.

[DStu]

But a Duration is in play until "the last turn it does something". When you follow the text on the card, there is "If you discarded any cards this way, then at the start of your next turn ...". As you don't discard, you don't follow this branch, and the "last turn it does something" is the actual one. So while maybe technically it's a Duration, it's (in this case) a Duration that has only a effect on the current turn.

[guided]

The TR is not modifying the Tactician, so it doesn't stay out. Relatedly, if you play Tactician even without TR and have nothing to discard, the Tactician is cleaned up immediately rather than staying out another turn.

These are weird edge cases though, and you can safely play them however you like without any significant effect. They are unlikely to arise.

[DG]

Am I correct that there's no way to infer this behavior from the card?

If the throne card mentioned durations in the card text it would confuse anyone without Seaside. If caravan mentioned king's courts then anyone without Prosperity would get confused. It would have been even more confusing before the expansions had been released. The rules for this behaviour are in the right place, the expansion rulebooks.