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[Grujah]

#Move to 1.
#CAG to escort civvie C.
#PIL - 4 Maximum FIREPOWER! Shoot at heavy first.

[Grujah]

Rolled 1d8 : 8, total 8

[Grujah]

That's down, right?

[Tables]

Yep. Three shots left.

[Grujah]

IN that case, as I get 3 more shots from Firepower, shoot raiders, one by one:

Rolled 1d8 : 4, total 4

Rolled 1d8 : 4, total 4

Rolled 1d8 : 8, total 8

[Tables]

Sorry, made a mistake. Shooting at a Heavy raider is something we need to do interrupts on, as people might want to plan that role (it's not a default thing, like shooting raiders).

That means we need to roll back to there, I'm afraid. Does anyone want to Strategic Planning the first Heavy Raider Shot?

(I know this might seem harsh, but it's my standard rule where necessary. I'd have done the same if you missed)

[Grujah]

Red Baron Apollo to Galactica: 4 Toaster Bird Down in one go! YEEEHHAA! Beat that, Starbuck!

[Grujah]

Or not.

[Grujah]

Pass on interrupts.

[WinterSpartan]

I'm going to both pass on interrupts and complain strongly about that ruling - those were fair rolls and if he doesn't want to wait for Planning (especially when we've repeatedly indicated we're out) he shouldn't be obliged to... What does everyone else think?

[Jorbles]

I'm going to both pass on interrupts and complain strongly about that ruling - those were fair rolls and if he doesn't want to wait for Planning (especially when we've repeatedly indicated we're out) he shouldn't be obliged to... What does everyone else think?

I have no problem with WinterSpartan's side on this. Though I do think Grujah must have been cheating somehow to get those awesome rolls. 

[Tables]

The issue isn't so much if HE wanted to as if ANYONE wanted to. It's also my standard rule with dice rolls, as I think I've mentioned earlier. It's the only fair way to do things - if it's not a standard thing I'd normally pass on, then I'll consider the dice roll invalid. And like I said, I'd have invoked the rule both ways, hit or miss.

Heavy Raider Shot (7+)

Chief: Pass (Cylon)
Apollo:  Pass.
Zarek: Pass
Adama:
Baltar:
Boomer:

[WinterSpartan]

I see it like, at the table face to face, Apollo announcing his shots and then just rolling.

Anyway. Well so we know - if he misses and tries again, are you going to require a new interrupt token?

[theorel]

Nah, it's just the broken randomizer...like all of watno's rolls in MK: I  (i.e. how he always rolls 6 on 1d6).

I can see both sides of the argument, and am fine either way (as expressed before random is random) his chances of getting 8 on the second roll are no different then his chances of getting 8 on the first roll were.
Basically it's a question of what we're trying to achieve here.  In face-to-face, players would be able to play strategic planning as soon as the intent to roll is announced (i.e. I could interrupt someone getting ready to throw a die).  However, similarly someone could throw the die before I quite realized what was going on.  Here, we don't quite have the same timing things going on, with people scattered about the globe.  So, essentially we have to decide which of those scenarios we favor.

I think that I would be happy if it were up to the player rolling the die whether they call for strategic planning.  It does give the cylons a chance to "forget" to wait for the card, but that can be reasonably viewed with suspicion, especially if it keeps happening.  OTOH, someone can leave a CO with Tables to play SP at some point, and it should get played at that point regardless of whether the player waits for it (and regardless of result).  Now, THAT could cause some issues (like if someone had CO'd a strategic plannning for any heavy raider attacks, and Apollo had missed within 2 the first time, then rolled again.  Some rolls could end up being invalidated there.

We've not had the issue come up before, so we don't have precedent to maintain.  I'm fine with whatever ruling...and if we're rerolling, I'm ## Passing on interrupts

[theorel]

Also, for the record Re: Tables' standard rule.  I read that as a standard for what he would do when he was rolling, I didn't really consider it with regards to players rolling themselves.

[theorel]

I need to get a staple interrupt/skill check token generator on my spreadsheet. Blah.

Dice roll - Set a Trap Bottom Option
   
Please Post or PM for any of the following:
Strategic Planning
Pass
 
Chief:
Apollo:
Zarek:
Adama: Pass (no cards)
Baltar: Pass (no tactics)
Boomer:

So for Qvist's benefit, to make this slightly less confusing: We're about to have a die roll. For most die rolls, I'll wait for players to pass or play the tactics card Strategic Planning which adds 2 to a dice roll (but must be played before the roll).

I say most dice rolls: By default I'm going to assume no strategic planning for certain rolls. These rolls are: Launch Scout if there are at least 2 Raptors left, All Cylon Ships, Vipers shooting Raiders. If you wish to play a strategic planning on any of these rolls you MUST leave a CO with me to that effect (or if you/someone leaves a note in the thread asking me to wait, I will)

Just to add the relevant quote for my previous post (and for the whole reason we're doing this in the first place)...

When you stated this, we couldn't roll ourselves.  You were handling all rolls and it's kind of how the rule made sense to me.  I didn't (personally) readjust it to my own personal die rolls once I became capable of making them...not sure others did either.

Also, I lied about no precedent...
We didn't wait for everyone to pass on SP before Post#273/#281 for example, where we killed a heavy raider and centurion.

I really think players gaining power over their own dice invalidated the token-ized passing.

[WinterSpartan]

I need to get a staple interrupt/skill check token generator on my spreadsheet. Blah.

Dice roll - Set a Trap Bottom Option
   
Please Post or PM for any of the following:
Strategic Planning
Pass
 
Chief:
Apollo:
Zarek:
Adama: Pass (no cards)
Baltar: Pass (no tactics)
Boomer:

So for Qvist's benefit, to make this slightly less confusing: We're about to have a die roll. For most die rolls, I'll wait for players to pass or play the tactics card Strategic Planning which adds 2 to a dice roll (but must be played before the roll).

I say most dice rolls: By default I'm going to assume no strategic planning for certain rolls. These rolls are: Launch Scout if there are at least 2 Raptors left, All Cylon Ships, Vipers shooting Raiders. If you wish to play a strategic planning on any of these rolls you MUST leave a CO with me to that effect (or if you/someone leaves a note in the thread asking me to wait, I will)

Just to add the relevant quote for my previous post (and for the whole reason we're doing this in the first place)...

When you stated this, we couldn't roll ourselves.  You were handling all rolls and it's kind of how the rule made sense to me.  I didn't (personally) readjust it to my own personal die rolls once I became capable of making them...not sure others did either.

Also, I lied about no precedent...
We didn't wait for everyone to pass on SP before Post#273/#281 for example, where we killed a heavy raider and centurion.

I really think players gaining power over their own dice invalidated the token-ized passing.

That's also a good point about the previous heavy raider precedent.

Because you may have missed the question, theorel - can the Quorum authorize the proper force to deal with that centurion?

[Grujah]

The issue isn't so much if HE wanted to as if ANYONE wanted to. It's also my standard rule with dice rolls, as I think I've mentioned earlier. It's the only fair way to do things - if it's not a standard thing I'd normally pass on, then I'll consider the dice roll invalid. And like I said, I'd have invoked the rule both ways, hit or miss.

Heavy Raider Shot (7+)

Chief: Pass (Cylon)
Apollo:  Pass.
Zarek: Pass
Adama:
Baltar:
Boomer:

I know you said you had a rule that you don't wait for SP in some situations, that is in " Launch Scout if there are at least 2 Raptors left, All Cylon Ships, Vipers shooting Raiders." - I kinda rushed it cuz I though this might qualify too, but you did announce.

[theorel]

@Zarek: sorry, didn't miss the question, but forgot about it.
No, the quorum will not authorize such force at this time.

[theorel]

@Tables: Also, just to clarify, since tone is so hard to convey in forums.  I really am totally fine with it either way.

(attempt at explanation): It's the rules lawyer in me.  I want to be clear that I fully accept your authority to rule in this matter however you see fit, and will not be in any way upset, disappointed, or any other negative emotion based on the ruling.  I'm not trying to bring up any of the things I brought up in order to persuade you to make a certain choice.  I'm bringing it up in order that you will be making an informed ruling.  I wanted to know, for my own self-enlightenment, why I thought that the self-rolling might have invalidated the previous ruling (which I remembered AFTER you mentioned it, and felt maybe didn't apply).  I understand why I thought that now, and kind of feel like we had been ignoring it since we gained our own die rolling.  (I mean, mostly we've left some opportunity for people to play SP, but we've not gone through the token process, for instance with the inspirational speeches as well although I left more than the 10 minutes davio did).  This one just didn't give any opportunity, and I think that made it stand out.  Anyways, like I said, that's why my thought process went the way it did.  Yours doesn't need to go the same way for me to be happy. 

[Davio]

I think we need more clear ruling.

A per possible case ruling of either:
- Active player may instantly roll a die if he wants to
- Active player must wait X amount of time for players to play interrupts after which they automatically pass
- Active player must wait for all players to either pass or play interrupts

I'm fine with this ruling anyway.

[Tables]

Lots to address here. Firstly posts 273 et. al. I went back to look, and I'm not 100% certain why I didn't ask for a re-roll on those. Most likely I just missed it. Possibly I figured given previous important rolls and claims, nobody would play one if they had one.

I'm sorry if this caused confusion, but I really do think it's the fairest way. Like you say Winter, PBF is a bit different to a F2F game. It would be timing wise a bit like someone grabbing the dice and rolling as they announce what they're doing - and I would tell the person that we need to wait to see if someone wants to plan the roll, so it can't count.

I think this is a good time to remind everyone of the power of COs. If you want to plan a potential roll against the heavy but not the first one, do leave a CO to that effect.

[Grujah]

I think we need more clear ruling.

A per possible case ruling of either:
- Active player may instantly roll a die if he wants to
- Active player must wait X amount of time for players to play interrupts after which they automatically pass
- Active player must wait for all players to either pass or play interrupts

I'm fine with this ruling anyway.

It is ruling #3, except in few exceptions.
You can't do #1, as it is not only up to the active player whether interrupts will be played.
#2 is fiddley?

I am ok with this ruling, I rolled without asking questions anyway. The thing that is was awesome roll sucks, but well, whatchagonnado.

[theorel]

I think the issue with wait a certain amount of time, is just the constant issue with non-synchronous gaming.  If I leave 10 minutes for everyone to respond, and I'm the only person online, it's the same as if I just rolled immediately.  The only really fair ways to handle it are always check with everyone or up to player.  The way that closest resembles face-to-face is always check, so that's what we're doing mostly.

Exceptions are explicitly: Launch Scout (only once we lose another raptor), rolls that benefit cylons, and vipers shooting raiders.

I would argue for one additional exception (if I may): if a similar roll has just been made, and no one played a strategic planning/drew a tactics card.
So, for example, if Apollo's first shot misses and no one played a SP, then we won't wait for everyone to pass again to make a second roll.

If OTOH it changes from shooting Heavy Raider to Attacking Centurion, even if no draws were made we might want to wait (in case someone held their SP).

Leaving a CO with Tables (even if you have no SPs) would probably be best to minimize wait-time for such interrupts.

To get things back on course, we need to hear from Adama and Boomer as to whether they're interrupting this roll.

Heavy Raider Shot (7+)

Chief: Pass (Cylon)
Apollo:  Pass.
Zarek: Pass
Adama:
Baltar: Pass
Boomer:

[Davio]

## Play TAC-3 (Strategic Planning)