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[Omer]

Fair $8
Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1

[Brando Commando]

I don't post in variants much, so I don't know the lingo...what is a "hard 8" cost?

Anyway, this card seems, on first impression, to be overpriced at $8. Consider that, with Grand Market, if I've already got my deck whittled down to a few cards, I'm likely to see the same Grand Market on my next turn as well as this turn.

Plus...should you name it something like "Mega-Market" or something in line with the "Market"? How about "Market Town"?

[Grujah]

I don't post in variants much, so I don't know the lingo...what is a "hard 8" cost?

I guess, 8$, no reduction tricks.

[Omer]

I don't post in variants much, so I don't know the lingo...what is a "hard 8" cost?

Anyway, this card seems, on first impression, to be overpriced at $8. Consider that, with Grand Market, if I've already got my deck whittled down to a few cards, I'm likely to see the same Grand Market on my next turn as well as this turn.

Plus...should you name it something like "Mega-Market" or something in line with the "Market"? How about "Market Town"?

Hard means there isn't an intergral ability that reduces its cost (like Peddler).

Also, "if" and "likely" aren't really good sells to try to say a card is overpriced.

Regarding the name: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair
And "mega-market"? really? That might be a nickname people would call my card if it was real, but as an actual name? really? really?

[Young Nick]

Ah, I read the title and saw Fair as an adjective, like an $8 card that is hard, but fair.

I definitely think it's overpriced. That's just my opinion, though.

[Davio]

The thing is: By the time you're able to afford this card, you'll likely not want it anymore, but you'd rather have a Province.
In games where you would want this there will likely be other, cheaper, engine cards that will suffice just as well. I mean, you can buy 2 Conspirators for $8 for instance.

[Omer]

Ah, I read the title and saw Fair as an adjective, like an $8 card that is hard, but fair.

I definitely think it's overpriced. That's just my opinion, though.

How would you price it then? $6? Then it's 99% strictly better than Grand Market. $7? Grand Market, without the copper restriction, is a 7$ card (some even say it's $8-$9! I don't think so though). So if mine cost 7$, it's basically a Grand Market which is easier to buy, except it's better than Grand Market 99% of the time.

The thing is: By the time you're able to afford this card, you'll likely not want it anymore, but you'd rather have a Province.
In games where you would want this there will likely be other, cheaper, engine cards that will suffice just as well. I mean, you can buy 2 Conspirators for $8 for instance.

Because Colonies doesn't exist, right? If you hit $8 in a Colony game you would likely not get a Province (unless it's late into the game), and it's not enough for Platinum. Would you rather get a Gold instead of a Fair? Well Grand Market is usually better than Gold (according to this) and Fair, as I said, is even better than Grand Market.
Regarding Conspirator: A. They won't give you a buy and B. They will only give you +1 action in the right hand.

Lastly, Grand Market can't act as a village on its own. Fair can (on your next turn). I think you guys are seriously underestimating it.

[AJD]

Plus...should you name it something like "Mega-Market" or something in line with the "Market"? How about "Market Town"?

If it's a duration card it should have a nautical kind of name, right?

[AJD]

The thing is: By the time you're able to afford this card, you'll likely not want it anymore, but you'd rather have a Province.

Because Colonies doesn't exist, right? If you hit $8 in a Colony game you would likely not get a Province (unless it's late into the game), and it's not enough for Platinum.

The thing is, Colonies don't exist, in about 85% of all games. Even Prosperity doesn't have any "hard" $8 kingdom cards, for this reason.

[Drab Emordnilap]

If it's a duration card it should have a nautical kind of name, right?

I think the nautical theme is for duration cards with a "this turn and next" ability, like this one. Haven and Tactician aren't particularly nautical, other than the picture.

[Omer]

The thing is: By the time you're able to afford this card, you'll likely not want it anymore, but you'd rather have a Province.

Because Colonies doesn't exist, right? If you hit $8 in a Colony game you would likely not get a Province (unless it's late into the game), and it's not enough for Platinum.

The thing is, Colonies don't exist, in about 85% of all games. Even Prosperity doesn't have any "hard" $8 kingdom cards, for this reason.

Nice of you to ignore the rest of my post.
Yes, this card was created with Colonies in mind. Yes, it might not be very useful in non-Colony games. I still fail to see the constructive in your criticism.

Edit: I see I am unallowed to critisize criticism. Double standards much?

User was warned for this post.

[Archetype]

The thing is: By the time you're able to afford this card, you'll likely not want it anymore, but you'd rather have a Province.

Because Colonies doesn't exist, right? If you hit $8 in a Colony game you would likely not get a Province (unless it's late into the game), and it's not enough for Platinum.

The thing is, Colonies don't exist, in about 85% of all games. Even Prosperity doesn't have any "hard" $8 kingdom cards, for this reason.

Nice of you to ignore the rest of my post.
Yes, this card was created with Colonies in mind. Yes, it might not be very useful in non-Colony games. I still fail to see the constructive in your criticism.

Woah buddy, they're just trying to help you.

When creating a card, you have to think 'when would I want this over other cards of the same price'

If the answer is always, it probably needs a  price change. If sometimes, its fine, if it's almost never or never, probably needs a price change or needs to be scrapped.

This card is a 'never/almost never'. Its very hard to think of a situation when I would want this over a Province in a deck that's already producing 8$

I don't think it should cost 8, so it's decisionif you want to fix the price, or scrap it altogether.

But if you are dead-set on making this card a good name would be Fish Market (Fishing Village + Market).

[Omer]

The thing is: By the time you're able to afford this card, you'll likely not want it anymore, but you'd rather have a Province.

Because Colonies doesn't exist, right? If you hit $8 in a Colony game you would likely not get a Province (unless it's late into the game), and it's not enough for Platinum.

The thing is, Colonies don't exist, in about 85% of all games. Even Prosperity doesn't have any "hard" $8 kingdom cards, for this reason.

Nice of you to ignore the rest of my post.
Yes, this card was created with Colonies in mind. Yes, it might not be very useful in non-Colony games. I still fail to see the constructive in your criticism.

Woah buddy, they're just trying to help you.

When creating a card, you have to think 'when would I want this over other cards of the same price'

If the answer is always, it probably needs a  price change. If sometimes, its fine, if it's almost never or never, probably needs a price change or needs to be scrapped.

This card is a 'never/almost never'. Its very hard to think of a situation when I would want this over a Province in a deck that's already producing 8$

I don't think it should cost 8, so it's decisionif you want to fix the price, or scrap it altogether.

But if you are dead-set on making this card a good name would be Fish Market (Fishing Village + Market).

Again, in Colony games.

[Archetype]

Still. Prosperity has 7$ cards for Colonies, not 8$.

[AJD]

If it's a duration card it should have a nautical kind of name, right?

I think the nautical theme is for duration cards with a "this turn and next" ability, like this one. Haven and Tactician aren't particularly nautical, other than the picture.

"Haven" is nautical. It means 'harbor'.

[One Armed Man]

Fair $8
Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1

I don't know why this is would be considered "overpriced". It is Market+(Lab+Bazaar+Buy)next turn. Grand Market is only Market+Peddler. Getting $8 early is a happy coincidence or achieved with some of the high-variability cards: Baron, Salvager, Apothecary, early Gold, Beggar, Death Cart. I definitely would not want to reward it quite this heavily, but I could see a $8 exist.


Edit: Ooops, I made my point backwards, thanks Omer.

[Omer]

Still. Prosperity has 7$ cards for Colonies, not 8$.

...and? is thinking just a little bit outside the box so bad?

Fair $8
Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1

I don't know why this is would be considered "under-priced". It is Market+(Lab+Bazaar+Buy)next turn. Grand Market is only Market+Peddler. Getting $8 early is a happy coincidence or achieved with some of the high-variability cards: Baron, Salvager, Apothecary, early Gold, Beggar, Death Cart. I definitely would not want to reward it quite this heavily, but I could see a $8 exist.

People say it was OVER-priced. Ridiculous, I know. I tried to explain why it can't cost less than $8. Do you think anyone listened? Well go over this thread and find for yourself.

[AJD]

This card is a 'never/almost never'. Its very hard to think of a situation when I would want this over a Province in a deck that's already producing 8$.

Again, in Colony games.

Colony games are 15% of all games, which is very near to counting as "almost never". That said, there are other cards that are worth buying over other cards at the same or similar cost in only 15% or less of games—Thief comes to mind, for instance. However, in those cases it takes more serious strategic thinking to identify which games are the ones in which those are worth buying. It's a lot easier to figure out "buy this in Colony games; buy Provinces in Province games". I don't think it's quite as clear-cut as that—there are probably some Province games where it makes sense to buy one of these to boost your engine before moving into double-Province turns—but that's probably less than 15% of Province games?

In general I think it would be a better idea to price the card at $7 and make it slightly weaker than to price it in direct competition with Province.

[Young Nick]

Also to keep in mind is how durations are more likely to miss the reshuffle. Having this bad-boy miss the reshuffle would suck so hard. Also, the other thing to keep in mind is that it is uncommon that anyone will "buy down" for this. In general, if I have $11+, I buy Colony. If I have $9 or $10, I buy Platinum. So I would only be buying this at $8.

I am not saying that an $8-card can't exist. I just think it would have to be kind of difficult to make it so it's a worthwhile purchase.

[Ozle]

"Colony games are 15% of all games, which is very near to counting as "almost never""
Im not sure how 15%  can be compared to 'Almost never' , that's under 1 in 7 games!!

Although I agree, I think I would rarely buy this in a Province game.
And I think it should be priced at $9

Also, I assumed it was called Haven because Donald spent his childhood years being taken to crappy english seaside holiday parks! (http://www.haven.com/)

[Brando Commando]

Also, "if" and "likely" aren't really good sells to try to say a card is overpriced.

No, I think they're pretty good reasons. That was just the first scenario I thought of.

So if mine cost 7$, it's basically a Grand Market which is easier to buy, except it's better than Grand Market 99% of the time.

I'm not sure where you get "99% of the time." The extra money of Grand Market on this turn is pretty big, which is why it seems to dominate a lot of games it's in.

Regarding Conspirator: A. They won't give you a buy and B. They will only give you +1 action in the right hand.

Yes, plus buys are nice, and Conspirators are a little hard to set up. But two conspirators will yield $4 on a single turn when set up correctly, where Fair will yield $1. That could be huge in the end game when you really need it. Consider that Expand is at $7, and it can turn a card worth 0 VP into a card worth 10 VP (turning Platinum into Colony).

And "mega-market"? really? That might be a nickname people would call my card if it was real, but as an actual name? really? really?

Actually, not really. That was a joke. I'm not so tone-deaf to theme that I thought "Megamarket" would be an appropriate name.
Instead, I'm going to suggest "Wal-mart."

Edit: Sorry, I meant "Nautical Wal-mart."

[Powerman]

Fair $8
Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1

Hm... I'd like it more as either:
"Fair $6
Action-Duration
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1
Each other player draws and discards a card.
_________________
When you buy this, each other player draws a card and may trash a card."

OR

"Fair $8
Action-Duration-Victory
Worth 1 VP
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1"

[Tables]

I think this card would be a fine $7, pretty boring, but balanced. Compare to Fishing Village+Wharf, it's the same, except that gives +1 card and you need to match components. So this probably should cost less than two of those together, so $7.

[Drab Emordnilap]

"Haven" is nautical. It means 'harbor'.

Huh. I'd never realized haven had a more specific definition than the generic "place of refuge".

[Asper]

I suggest to make the card cheaper and give it a restriction or penalty. This makes it more interesting in sets where you can avoid the penality and also stops it from colliding with province. I myself made a hard $8 card (Palace), but that one encouraged buying provinces by counting all $6+ cards except itself for victory points.

-Edit: Oops, Powerman already said that.