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[werothegreat]

When I Scheme a Hermit on a turn when I don't buy anything, I *should* still receive a Madman, even though the Hermit wasn't trashed.  Goko is not doing this - if you Scheme a Hermit, you don't get anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcqMy3qZWQg

[Insomniac]

Goko has this right. Hermit says when this is discarded from play. If you scheme it to the top of your deck you never discard it from play. So you never get a madman

I hadn't read scheme in a while.

[SirPeebles]

Edit:  I misread you wero.  I thought that you started by describing what Goko does.

Insomniac, you do discard the Hermit from play.  Scheme moves Hermit when Hermit is discarded.

[michaeljb]

Scheme says "if you discard it from play," so you do definitely discard the Hermit, otherwise Scheme could not put it on top of the deck.

I'm pretty sure this is how it works, after playing Scheme and Hermit in the Action phase, and doing nothing in the Buy phase.

Clean-up Phase
-Scheme: name Hermit
-discard Scheme*
-discard Hermit
--two effects want to activate now, so you can choose to do Scheme's first, Hermit's second
--Scheme: put Hermit on top of the deck
----no issue here, Hermit is moved to the top of the deck
--Hermit: trash Hermit and gain a Madman
----Hermit expects to find itself in the discard pile; it has lost track of itself and therefore cannot trash itself
----do as much as you can; there's no "if you do" clause, so Madman is gained even though Hermit is not trashed

*or you can discard Scheme after all this, that part doesn't matter

[Donald X.]

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=6374.0