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[mcmcsalot]

Okay, I'm here. Still at work, but it's 4am so there's not a lot happening. I knew deadline was coming up and I really wanted to have some sort of contribution, but that was during the busy part of the night and I just couldn't give this game priority over work that I had to do.

I'm always very uneasy about calling anyone "confirmed" Town when they haven't been. I believe mcmc is Town, and will continue to believe so unless we get two other Fool claims. But mcmc's claim came 3 minutes before the thread was locked. If scum was around at that point in time they had to make a snap decision. And I'm sure they would have wanted to kill mcmc. But only 2 possible scum posted after mcmc's claim, and if mcmc was killed overnight they would have received a heck of a lot of scrutiny. I mean yeah, scum might have killed mcmc in that situation. But that's certainly a long way from certain. So maybe they get Town points for that. But I'm certainly not treating them as confirmed Town, and if I think they're scum, that one thing isn't going to sway me from lynching them.

Yea I understand I was wrong I was razzled from that deadline rush.

[Jimmmmm]

Fair enough, looks like it was pretty hectic.

[Jimmmmm]

shoot wrong, lynch wrong = 2v2 on day 3.  at best we have 2 and 2 at lynches, hidden democracy also split.  I think that results in no lynch and a loss?

2v2 is a loss since the Witches only need to make up half the Town.

[shraeye]

I would prefer that you shoot, mcmc.  According to my calculations, shoot/lynch is the same as lynch/lynch.  Except one scenario where shooting gives 3/1 and lynching gives 2/1 (I consider those two the same, since no-lynches don't happen in blitz.)

I was thinking about why yuma died; I know that the longer he stays around the more suspicious I get of him, because I know him to be a very clever scumplayer.  However, he is also very dangerous as town.  I don't recall him fingering anybody with quite as much emphasis as others, so I could see him being killed solely because the scum team knows how dangerous he is as town.  This causes me to think that at least one vet is on the scumteam (robz or jimmm).  I don't think that the team is mail-mi/EFHW, for example.

Also, unless more claims/evidence can convince me otherwise, I'm thinking of mcmcsalot and spiritbears as town.

[Robz888]

I would prefer that you shoot, mcmc.  According to my calculations, shoot/lynch is the same as lynch/lynch.  Except one scenario where shooting gives 3/1 and lynching gives 2/1 (I consider those two the same, since no-lynches don't happen in blitz.)

I was thinking about why yuma died; I know that the longer he stays around the more suspicious I get of him, because I know him to be a very clever scumplayer.  However, he is also very dangerous as town.  I don't recall him fingering anybody with quite as much emphasis as others, so I could see him being killed solely because the scum team knows how dangerous he is as town.  This causes me to think that at least one vet is on the scumteam (robz or jimmm).  I don't think that the team is mail-mi/EFHW, for example.

Also, unless more claims/evidence can convince me otherwise, I'm thinking of mcmcsalot and spiritbears as town.

Don't want to talk about ongoing games, but mail-mi has had a chance to see awesome town yuma.

[mcmcsalot]

I would prefer that you shoot, mcmc.  According to my calculations, shoot/lynch is the same as lynch/lynch.  Except one scenario where shooting gives 3/1 and lynching gives 2/1 (I consider those two the same, since no-lynches don't happen in blitz.)

I was thinking about why yuma died; I know that the longer he stays around the more suspicious I get of him, because I know him to be a very clever scumplayer.  However, he is also very dangerous as town.  I don't recall him fingering anybody with quite as much emphasis as others, so I could see him being killed solely because the scum team knows how dangerous he is as town.  This causes me to think that at least one vet is on the scumteam (robz or jimmm).  I don't think that the team is mail-mi/EFHW, for example.

Also, unless more claims/evidence can convince me otherwise, I'm thinking of mcmcsalot and spiritbears as town.

2/1(33%) is much better odds than 3/1(25%)

So me shooting really only hurts us. Now if there is another fool with a vig it would be great.

Then we could both shoot:
Wrong: 5/2 - 4/2 - 3/2 mylo
Right: 5/2 - 5/1 - 4/1 lynch wrong 2/1
Right(suicide) 5/2- 4/1 - 3/1 mylo

The above scenario is what is worth it, if we correct shoot with suicide its just a lynch.
So again the other power role has to claim to see if we should shoot. Because two wrong shots is = to a mislynch but we pick the scummy people.
 

[shraeye]

mmm, ok.  I'm sorta checked out of other games, so I retract my previous statement.

[mcmcsalot]

If I am the only vig I am not shooting, if there are two we should both shoot end of story.

[Jimmmmm]

I agree that shooting is way better if both Fools do it.

[Jimmmmm]

Re-read Robz, getting some weird vibes off him. I mean, Robz plays weirdly as Town, so it could just be that. But, I don't know. All the certainty he's throwing around is weird. I guess if he's Town we have to respect his reads to some extent, so it would seem unlikely that all of {Robz, shraeye, mail-mi} are Town.

[shraeye]

What stuck out as weird-vibe-ish?

[EFHW]

@mcmc, congrats on your survival (that's not sarcastic).  I wasn't watching, I disconnected as soon as I said good-bye.  The "who's online" thingy says people are on for awhile after they aren't.  I won't say anything else now until I've caught up.

[Jimmmmm]

shraeye, what are your current thoughts on Robz? You were all over him for quite a while, and then you seemed to forget about him, saying you were worried about an Eevee/spirit scumteam, and today while you've engage with him you haven't mentioned him other than in relation to being a vet and you suspecting vets.

[Robz888]

@mcmc, congrats on your survival (that's not sarcastic).  I wasn't watching, I disconnected as soon as I said good-bye.  The "who's online" thingy says people are on for awhile after they aren't.  I won't say anything else now until I've caught up.

This is not true, and is something I have said as scum. I've said exactly that.

Hmm.

[EFHW]

Oh i am very saddened by the town in robz/jimm/ehw/mai-mi pay attention to the deadline jimm was around but obviously busy but clearly he had no idea the deadline was so soon(or is scum) same with efhw. Just careless to say yea i'll be back in a couple hours cuz i'm busy but in the meantime before I'm busy I'm not going to give any helpful thoughts toward the final lynch.

I had to go to a funeral, Ok?  I said well in advance that I wouldn't be available. 

Be glad you survived and show us your power.

[spiritbears]

I would prefer that you shoot, mcmc.  According to my calculations, shoot/lynch is the same as lynch/lynch.  Except one scenario where shooting gives 3/1 and lynching gives 2/1 (I consider those two the same, since no-lynches don't happen in blitz.)

I was thinking about why yuma died; I know that the longer he stays around the more suspicious I get of him, because I know him to be a very clever scumplayer.  However, he is also very dangerous as town.  I don't recall him fingering anybody with quite as much emphasis as others, so I could see him being killed solely because the scum team knows how dangerous he is as town.  This causes me to think that at least one vet is on the scumteam (robz or jimmm).  I don't think that the team is mail-mi/EFHW, for example.

Also, unless more claims/evidence can convince me otherwise, I'm thinking of mcmcsalot and spiritbears as town.

I generally agree with this statement.  I did find it problematic that you were (rather forcefully) directing Mc to shoot me, about the same time I saves him.  But you're plea for town Eevee did help convince me not to vote Eevee (unfortunately that wasn't enough to save him).  So I generally agree that that Shyrae and MC are likely town (not 100% sure but convincingly). 
I am getting concerned about Mai's absence extending into 2 days and Robz rather abrupt change of pace confuses me.  I think Efhw is more likely the town out of those three...and I don't follow MC's argument about his failure to remove the vote.  It was a frantic deadline and I'm wiing to cut him a little slack.

[Jimmmmm]

i don't think the thing about mail-mi is scummy at allll.

Why not? Gotta bail out your scumbuddy?

I dont think inventing a VLA to bail out from posting is a likely scum strategy for mailmi or anyone really. Not a town tell either, just null.

You're wrong. It is obviously a scum strategy, we've seen it in practice as a scum strategy, and more specifically it fits mail-mi, who is clumsy as scum. So you're just super wrong. But are you scum trying to buddy a townie, or are you sticking your neck out for scumpartner?

I say mail-mi gets a tech-free Tuesday pass.  If he's as clumsy as you claim he is, Robz, then we should be able to catch him easily on subsequent days.

K, next time I am scum, I will tell my partner to preemptively vanish for Day 1, and then I will say "he gets a free pass!" and no one better stop me.

But if your partner next time is somebody like yuma who is very sneaky, I would not be giving the same pass.  You gotta consider context.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong I think yuma is LESS likely to try that, because yuma can play a good scum game from the driver's seat. Mail-mi, maybe he can't, or doesn't think he can.

So Robz is sure mail-mi is scum?

Not sure what else would explain the tone.

I'm more sure you are scum, covering and apologizing for scum or scummy play.

Mailmi: Scum or at the very least super scummy

Shraeye and Eevee: Legitimately wrong on point of fact, covering for scummy player, militantly covering for scummy player. Why?

So now I think moreso one of you two are scum.

I guess just the mix of his seeming certain about people being scum and being what seems to be unnecessarily aggressive. I'm not sure aggressive is the right word though, just loud maybe? He was arguing that someone is using being V/LA to cover for being scum, and while that's possible there's no real evidence that it's true in this case. So jumping down people's throats for disagreeing with him on that seems strange.

[shraeye]

shraeye, what are your current thoughts on Robz? You were all over him for quite a while, and then you seemed to forget about him, saying you were worried about an Eevee/spirit scumteam, and today while you've engage with him you haven't mentioned him other than in relation to being a vet and you suspecting vets.

His heavy handed attack on me (for exactly the same reasons he suspected Eevee, which ended up being false) looks really suspicious.  I'm likely to vote for him but need to get a better feel for you and mailmi first.  spiritbears' actions at the end of the day yesterday caused me to really suspect him, and it looked like he was showing real hesitance to turn mcmc's lynch into an eevee-lynch.  I started seeing pairs, and felt really confident come lynchtime.

Robz is currently my leading suspect for the day, but I need to give many possibilities consideration, as I hate it when I inadvertantly tunnel in on people and end up ignoring important signs/tendencies of other players.

[mcmcsalot]

Okay so last thoughts now that everyone but mail-mi has talked.

The other fool must claim.

If you are a cop: you can use it on whoever you think is scum, if you get a scum result cool we lynch and are at 6/1(2 mislynch to 2/1), I will not shoot. If you get a town result we should all disregard it as it is not trustworthy.

If you are neighborizer: you can claim your neighbor or not either way claim so that we have a second IC, I will not shoot.

If you are vig: we will coordinate to shoot the town's first lynch target, if it is scum with suicide the other person does not shoot we are at 6/1(2 mislynch to 2/1), if it is scum with no suicide the other person shoots the second lynch target for a win or 6/1(2 mislynch to 2/1). Worst case scenario is the first shot hits town and the second shot hits a scum suicide, but it still leaves us at 5/1 one mislynch to 3/1.

Scum cannot counter claim because my claim is provable with a vig. If you claim cop and are counter claimed we lynch you both for 6/1 or 4/1. Both scenarios are good. If you claim neighborizor and are counter claimed even better, neighbors claim(scum partner) and we lynch 1 claim then the other then the partners for a win(town, scum, scum).

That being said noone should counter claim and we should have to IC's as soon as possible. We are the looking at a 5 man scum pool and take the above actions. I want this out now and if mail-mi is not here please have a prod

[EFHW]

• I agree with shraeye about there being a vet on the team. 
• I think Robz is fighting really hard against a small threat including getting personal about it ("puppet master").
• I think Spiritbears is either the other fool or scum.  He is new enough that he probably wouldn't have thought thru changing his vote that fast, especially if he is paired with a vet who wasn't on.  I agree with Jimmmmm about confirming people as town and think mcmc's POE is dangerous.  Spiritbears said we'd "regret" lynching him, which is why I say he might be the other fool. 
• mail-mi, I don't know.  He got lynched for lurking his first game.  It made him very skittish.  I don't think he'd make that mistake again.

[EFHW]

The other fool must claim.

It is also safe to claim because you will use your power before the next nightkill.

[EFHW]

I take that back.  It's safe to claim vig.  The neighborizer benefit would continue to future days.

[Jimmmmm]

I actually think changing the kill to mcmc is something a newbie scum is much more likely to be rash enough to do than a vet.

[EFHW]

I actually think changing the kill to mcmc is something a newbie scum is much more likely to be rash enough to do than a vet.

As a relative newbie still, I know I would hesitate if my vet partner had decided on someone else.

[EFHW]

Hypothetically, would someone (I mean Robz) provoke a vig kill if it took the vig with him?