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Author Topic: The things we do to track - IRL  (Read 8695 times)

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Serialian

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The things we do to track - IRL
« on: January 26, 2013, 01:05:17 pm »
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I was just thinking about this playing a IRL game yesterday. When games start getting complex engines there are often a lot of things to track at a time.


I was wondering what 'techniques' players use to keep their sanity that aren't expressly mentioned in the rules. I've noticed that players around me start picking up some of my techniques without me explaining them. Not sure this is the 'right' forum to post this in, but I'm not sure there IS a right forum.



1. The christmas tree. This is a pretty obvious one for villages. You play a village, you can track the actions by playing off of the bottom corners of the card. This works for most villages pretty effectively.

2. The minion- Last night I had a game with a ton of grand markets and minions. I've found that if I lay the 'money minions' sideways and the discard minions in the proper orientation that I save a lot of headache trying to figure out what I did when I'm trying to figure out if I can afford both colonies or just a mere colony and a province.

3. Durations- Keep em in two columns solves most problems, but fishing villages can get confusing when you had some from last turn and some from this turn and you are using the christmas tree technique

Problem cards for tracking that I don't have a personal solution for...

Hamlet is one that contains more information that needs to be tracked. I don't have a cut and dried way of setting out the card to determine if I discarded for actions or if I got that extra buy.

City mid turn piles- Oh pity the player who has a lot of cities, empties a pile mid turn and then ambassadors a card back to a pile to get rid of that extra curse. This isn't a common problem, but I've definitely had it come up. Trying to figure out what the heck you did can be a nightmare

Pawn- Coin or Buy or Draw? I try to lay my pawns that count for money sideways keeping with my minion convention but I don't have a way to track the buys in particularly long games

Nobles- Usually not a problem, If I didn't christmas tree it, I used it for the draw.

Spice Merchant- Again usually not a problem because you don't chain 50 of them together. Now that I'm thinking about it, I should use the minion orientation thing here too.

Squire- This one I don't think is much of a problem because you wouldn't pick actions unless you were planning on Christmas treeing, and if you're going out of your way enough to get 2 additional buys, that's the sort of thing you'd remember.

Mining Village or Madmen- Sometimes those disappearing cards that gave you actions can be frustrating when you're trying to figure out how the heck you did that many things. Same thing can come from a 'phantom' card from a throne room or KC.

 
And there are likely more mid turn decisions that can be lost in an epic turn that I'm not thinking of.


So any tips or techniques that you guys use that I should adopt ?

(If the tip is remembering the past I'm not sure I'll be able to pull off that one.)
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jomini

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Re: The things we do to track - IRL
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2013, 01:43:49 pm »
+1

Yeah:

Hamlet - right side up, did nothing, 90 degrees right - it's a village, 90 degrees left - it's a +buy, upside down - it's both
Fishing Village - At the beginning of the turn, set them up as a new Christmas tree and begin play beside the top one.
Pawn - 90 degrees right - money, 90 degrees left - buy, upside down - both, +action means that I play my next action on its branch and +card is not tracked.
City - Right-side up - activated for cards, upside down - activated for +buy and +coin
Mv/Madman - Flip the card over it you are going to trash it, right side up if you aren't. During cleanup, move the flipped cards into the trash. Also works for Death Cart, Feast, and Possession troubles.

Trusty steed - right for money, upside down for money +actions, though to be honest this is only when I'm in a big megaturn and then I normally know it is +actions (treed) and +cards (tracked by hand size).


By and and large playing something right for money, left for some other attribute, and upside for both works really well for tracking heavy choice elements.

The one card I have not found a good way to track in megaturns is Band of Misfits - okay so THIS one has a +1 buy (Market Square), this one has +2 coin (Duchess), this one has +4 coin/+1 buy (Baron), this one has +5 coin (Death cart), this one is +3 actions (Xroads), this one is +2 actions (Walled village),  and this one has +1 coin (Noble Brigand). Arggh.

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heron

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Re: The things we do to track - IRL
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2013, 03:40:44 pm »
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I've thought about putting randomizers next to my bands of misfits so that they're recognizable.
Or you could think of ~6 positions, each representing a different card.
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Awaclus

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Re: The things we do to track - IRL
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2013, 03:53:41 pm »
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I just state everything out loud after playing any card (except for the first village). After I have heard myself saying how many actions, buys and coins I have left, I will remember it.
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Mr Anderson

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Re: The things we do to track - IRL
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2013, 04:18:14 pm »
+1

I sometimes use this Dominion-Counter-eng.swf if I have my laptop with me and play engines.
I created it for myself and only had a German version, but it was easy to make an English version quickly. For those who want to use the German version: Dominion-Counter.swf. And for those who want to do a version of their own language or want to change it, here is the fla: Dominion-Counter-eng.fla
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Markov Chain

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Re: The things we do to track - IRL
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2013, 09:07:56 pm »
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For actions, we usually play cards in rows.  If you have the same number of actions after playing two cards, they are in the same row.  If you have one more action, the second card overlaps the lower right corner of the first card.  If you have one fewer action, the second card overlaps the upper right corner.  Once you play a card in the top row (necessarily a terminal), you are out of actions.

Code: [Select]
                        Torturer
Scheme         Torturer
       Village

For durations, rotate the card horizontally at the start of the second turn; this was probably inspired by tapping of Magic cards.  For minions, rotate horizontally if the card is used for money.

For a card played with Throne Room or King's Court, place the TR/KC underneath the doubled/tripled card.  For KC/KC, place all three cards under the second KC.  We haven't played with Procession enough to find an alternate way to handle it.

For Golems, place both actions under the Golem, at least until they are both played (when you may need to move them to rows to keep track of actions.)

We don't normally track buys, although with a hamlet, you could usually place the discarded card above the hamlet to indicate that it was discarded for +buy.
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Morgrim7

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Re: The things we do to track - IRL
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2013, 10:48:47 pm »
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I play simpler games IRL and leave stuff like KC/Pawn for Isotropic :)
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Kirian

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Re: The things we do to track - IRL
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2013, 11:35:50 pm »
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For actions, we usually play cards in rows.  If you have the same number of actions after playing two cards, they are in the same row.  If you have one more action, the second card overlaps the lower right corner of the first card.  If you have one fewer action, the second card overlaps the upper right corner.  Once you play a card in the top row (necessarily a terminal), you are out of actions.

Code: [Select]
                        Torturer
Scheme         Torturer
       Village

For durations, rotate the card horizontally at the start of the second turn; this was probably inspired by tapping of Magic cards.  For minions, rotate horizontally if the card is used for money.

For a card played with Throne Room or King's Court, place the TR/KC underneath the doubled/tripled card.  For KC/KC, place all three cards under the second KC.  We haven't played with Procession enough to find an alternate way to handle it.

For Golems, place both actions under the Golem, at least until they are both played (when you may need to move them to rows to keep track of actions.)

We don't normally track buys, although with a hamlet, you could usually place the discarded card above the hamlet to indicate that it was discarded for +buy.

I would have guessed you play them randomly and still get a good result.
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werothegreat

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Re: The things we do to track - IRL
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2013, 12:24:50 am »
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Dark Ages is a real bitch for IRL games.  Poor House, Madman, Spoils, Count, Squire, Forager, Ironmonger, Procession... and then some cards are not so much a bitch to track as a bitch to actually perform - Rebuild, Wandering Minstrel, Catacombs...
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lympi

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Re: The things we do to track - IRL
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2013, 02:18:54 pm »
+2

For durations, rotate the card horizontally at the start of the second turn; this was probably inspired by tapping of Magic cards.  For minions, rotate horizontally if the card is used for money.

Funny, my group plays them tapped, and then at the start of the second turn untaps them. Putting them out tapped helps remind you not to discard them during clean up.
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Donald X.

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Re: The things we do to track - IRL
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2013, 02:47:06 pm »
+3

Funny, my group plays them tapped, and then at the start of the second turn untaps them. Putting them out tapped helps remind you not to discard them during clean up.
Richard Garfield suggested this method. It's not in the rulebook because, let's not do something where we dance around the word "tap" because of a company with a bunch of lawyers.
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SirPeebles

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Re: The things we do to track - IRL
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2013, 02:50:03 pm »
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What does tap mean in this context?
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Destierro

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Re: The things we do to track - IRL
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2013, 03:14:44 pm »
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I put my non duration cards in 3 rows : cantrip, village, and terminal. That way I can easily see whether I have enough actions or not.
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SirPeebles

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Re: The things we do to track - IRL
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2013, 03:15:57 pm »
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I put my non duration cards in 3 rows : cantrip, village, and terminal. That way I can easily see whether I have enough actions or not.

What do you do with Crossroads?
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Kirian

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Re: The things we do to track - IRL
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2013, 03:37:17 pm »
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Funny, my group plays them tapped, and then at the start of the second turn untaps them. Putting them out tapped helps remind you not to discard them during clean up.
Richard Garfield suggested this method. It's not in the rulebook because, let's not do something where we dance around the word "tap" because of a company with a bunch of lawyers.

That patent is another reason the USPTO needs a complete overhaul.  And having the patent's inventor recommend it to you it pretty shameless.
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Donald X.

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Re: The things we do to track - IRL
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2013, 04:28:18 pm »
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Richard Garfield suggested this method. It's not in the rulebook because, let's not do something where we dance around the word "tap" because of a company with a bunch of lawyers.

That patent is another reason the USPTO needs a complete overhaul.  And having the patent's inventor recommend it to you it pretty shameless.
I don't follow you. The more a patent includes, the fewer situations it covers; Wizards doesn't have a patent on tapping, they just have a bunch of lawyers. The problem there is the ability people have to annoy you with lawyers, rather than any problems with the patent system (the whole way intellectual property works is messed up, patents included, this just isn't anything to do with that).

Richard suggested something that worked well that he liked. He wasn't trying to get anyone in trouble or push anything unreasonable. Richard is a class act eight ways from Sunday.
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Kirian

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Re: The things we do to track - IRL
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2013, 04:37:23 pm »
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Richard suggested something that worked well that he liked. He wasn't trying to get anyone in trouble or push anything unreasonable. Richard is a class act eight ways from Sunday.

I retract what I said, then, as I haven't met him.  But yes, the patent system is a horrible mishmash of dumb right now, and IP lawyers don't help the case.
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Re: The things we do to track - IRL
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2013, 12:58:33 pm »
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When I know it's going to get rough, I get out the Embargo and Pirate Ship/Trade Route tokens to keep track of money and buys. Embargo Tokens are buys and TR tokens are dollars. I use the "Christmas Tree" method for actions. If a card is going to be moved to the trash like Mining Village or Madman, it gets "tapped" after it's played to remind me to put it there.

Ironically, we've always "tapped" the duration cards from the previous turn instead of those from the current turn. After reading this, I realize that's totally silly and we should stop doing it.

I usually "tap" the Minions used for attacks instead of money. Hmh.

Crossroads and KC are a little hairy, but I can usually get away with three branches of my Christmas tree underneath one card. In every situation that's come up, when I Throne or King a village, I assume infinite actions the rest of the turn -- I suppose it's possible for that to be a problem in some cases, but it's never come up IRL for me. (If I'm Kinging a village and I have enough terminals in my deck to use up all those actions, why am I not Kinging those terminals?)
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Re: The things we do to track - IRL
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2013, 06:10:42 am »
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I use the christmas tree variant but call it action tree. I tap durations that is in for the second turn, I have never had any problems with cleaning them up since forever, but I want to change it so that I play them tapped. I play all Minions untapped, but tap them when I discard with it. This way I can see my opponent's reaction cards before I decide. Nobles are played tapped when played for actions. Mining Village goes directly to the trash if I'm not playing any more actions, or tapped and then put in the trash at the end of the turn. Hamlet, Pawn and Squire I keep track of during the turn by constantly repeating how many actions, buys and coins I have. This is actually what I think works best, it takes the most time and is the most demanding thing to do and I generally don't want to do that every turn every game when I'm playing 5 or 6 games in one swoop. I'm lazy like that.
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