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Author Topic: Ratios to consider for fan sets  (Read 2141 times)

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NoMoreFun

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Ratios to consider for fan sets
« on: February 05, 2013, 09:20:58 pm »
+3

When you're designing a set, do you have a checklist or quotas that you need to meet? For example, what's the number of cards with +buy that you need in a set? What are some types of cards that you need to make sure are included in every set?
These days for ~25 cards by default I want about 2.5-3 villages (counting thrones or expensive ones for less), 2-3 +buys, 2-4 remodels/vaults (trash or discard for benefit), 4 attacks (down from 5), 2-3 non-attack player interaction (up from 1), 1 victory card, 1 treasure, 6-7 cards with +1 card +1 action (up from 5, counting villages but not thrones), and a bunch of $5's.

There are also some things that are in every set, such as deck thinners, gainers, terminal drawers, terminal money etc.

There are 4 attack types, and most large sets contain at least one of each:
*A junk giver (usually a curser; Hinterlands has Ill-Gotten Gains instead)
*An attack on the hand (usually a Militia variant)
*A trashing attack (eg Thief; Prosperity has Bishop instead)
*A deck attack (eg. Spy variants; Dark Ages is the only expansion with no such card)
There are some combinations of the 2 (eg Ghost Ship is both a hand and deck attack, Swindler is both junk giver and a trashing attack)

There's a spreadsheet somewhere on how costs are distributed (WILL FIND LATER). Basically $5 has the most cards, and there are typically very few $2s and $6s, with an even number of $3s and $4s to round it off

I will add more later. Please post your own observations below.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 02:46:38 am by NoMoreFun »
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eHalcyon

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Re: Ratios to consider for fan sets
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2013, 12:37:54 am »
0

Include some cost percentages. There was some of this back during the card design contest.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Ratios to consider for fan sets
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2013, 10:48:24 am »
0

My small (12 Kingdom card) fan set, Enterprise, holds up pretty well to these criteria. Of course, that's not a coincidence. I tried to make sure I had a good balance of these factors when I created the set.

1 card that let you play more than 1 Terminal Action: Mill Town
2 cards with +Buy: Fund, Inventor
1 deck thinner: Gambler
1 remodeler: Exchange
7 one-shots: Surveyor, Gambler, Boycott, Enforcer, Conscripts, Exchange, Fund
1 junker: Conscripts
1 discarder: Tax Collector
1 trasher: Tax Collector
1 deck mucker: Enforcer

The only place it falls short is in cards that let you play multiple terminal Actions in a turn. I could add an extra +Action onto Exchange, I guess. The only other easy option is adding it to Barracks, and I've found +2 Actions isn't so hot on a card that gives Curses (in a roundabout way).

As for the article, I'd also mention having a good mix of terminal and non-terminal Actions. Many fan sets fall into the trap of having almost exclusively non-terminal Actions. I think a good ratio to shoot for is 1:1, but there's a lot of wiggle room there. 2:1 or 1:2 isn't unreasonable.
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Kirian

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Re: Ratios to consider for fan sets
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2013, 10:57:44 am »
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Each large set (except dark ages) has exactly 3 kingdom cards that reliably allow you to play more than 1 terminal action, while small sets have 2 (dark ages has

Base: 2
Intrigue: 2.5
Seaside: 3
Prosperity: 2
Alchemy: 2
Hinterlands: 3
Cornucopia: 1.5
Dark Ages: 3.5

So, not exactly three per set and two per small expansion, no.  (The halves represent choice cards, i.e., Hamlet, Nobles, Squire.)
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LastFootnote

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Re: Ratios to consider for fan sets
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2013, 11:03:18 am »
0

Each large set (except dark ages) has exactly 3 kingdom cards that reliably allow you to play more than 1 terminal action, while small sets have 2 (dark ages has

Base: 2
Intrigue: 2.5
Seaside: 3
Prosperity: 2
Alchemy: 2
Hinterlands: 3
Cornucopia: 1.5
Dark Ages: 3.5

So, not exactly three per set and two per small expansion, no.  (The halves represent choice cards, i.e., Hamlet, Nobles, Squire.)

Base: Village, Throne Room, Festival
Intrigue: Shanty Town, Mining Village, Nobles
Seaside: Native Village, Fishing Village, Bazaar
Prosperity: Worker's Village, City, King's Court
Alchemy: University, Golem
Hinterlands: Crossroads, Inn, Border Village
Cornucopia: Hamlet, Farming Village
Dark Ages: Squire, Fortress, Procession, Wandering Minstrel, Bandit Camp

Seems right to me.
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Kirian

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Re: Ratios to consider for fan sets
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2013, 11:05:50 am »
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Each large set (except dark ages) has exactly 3 kingdom cards that reliably allow you to play more than 1 terminal action, while small sets have 2 (dark ages has

Base: 2
Intrigue: 2.5
Seaside: 3
Prosperity: 2
Alchemy: 2
Hinterlands: 3
Cornucopia: 1.5
Dark Ages: 3.5

So, not exactly three per set and two per small expansion, no.  (The halves represent choice cards, i.e., Hamlet, Nobles, Squire.)

Base: Village, Throne Room, Festival
Intrigue: Shanty Town, Mining Village, Nobles
Seaside: Native Village, Fishing Village, Bazaar
Prosperity: Worker's Village, City, King's Court
Alchemy: University, Golem
Hinterlands: Crossroads, Inn, Border Village
Cornucopia: Hamlet, Farming Village
Dark Ages: Squire, Fortress, Procession, Wandering Minstrel, Bandit Camp

Seems right to me.

Procession, TR and KC do not allow you to play more than one terminal action.  They allow you to play the same terminal action twice.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Ratios to consider for fan sets
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2013, 11:08:26 am »
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Procession, TR and KC do not allow you to play more than one terminal action.  They allow you to play the same terminal action twice.

Wrong. Play Throne Room on a card that gives +1 Action and suddenly you can play two different terminal Action cards.
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SirPeebles

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Re: Ratios to consider for fan sets
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2013, 11:47:52 am »
+1

And even without any cards with +1 action, you can play TR-TR-Terminal1-Terminal2.  It's harder to start your engine because you need two Throne Rooms and a terminal to start, but once you get going you can play one terminal per Throne Room and the terminals are doubled. Especially nice in a Tactician deck.
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gman314

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Re: Ratios to consider for fan sets
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2013, 05:12:29 pm »
+1

Procession, TR and KC do not allow you to play more than one terminal action.  They allow you to play the same terminal action twice.

However, you still play multiple non-distinct terminal actions. Compare Throne Room-Smithy to Village, Smithy, Smithy. It's the same thing.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Ratios to consider for fan sets
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2013, 09:05:27 pm »
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The only place it falls short is in cards that let you play multiple terminal Actions in a turn. I could add an extra +Action onto Exchange, I guess. The only other easy option is adding it to Barracks, and I've found +2 Actions isn't so hot on a card that gives Curses (in a roundabout way).

What about adding it to Enforcer? It's going to lead to some wonky engines.
Exchange seems right though. You can remodel the 2 cards into terminal actions and play them both that turn.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 09:06:31 pm by NoMoreFun »
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