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Author Topic: Werewolf  (Read 1835 times)

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Eistee

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Werewolf
« on: January 18, 2013, 11:12:36 am »
+4

Werewolf
Action - Attack  - (5)

+ 2 Cards

Each other player gains a Copper and a Curse. Each other player may trash a treasure. If a Silver is trashed this way: Trash this card.
----------------

I love werewolfes. So I though, hey, I should make a card that kinda has that "Silver is the bane of werewolves"-falvor.

It's kinda like Witch. It hands out Curses. And treasure, which Witch doesn't do.  But hey, your opponents can even trash that copper again - at the cost a less buying power next turn...

What do you guys think?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 11:31:19 am by Eistee »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Werewolf
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2013, 11:48:40 am »
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Very neat idea! Knights is the only other card where you risk losing the card by playing it. The risk is higher here though, since people will have more Silvers than Knights.

I think it needs a little something to make it more different than Witch, though. Perhaps just a different bonus instead of +2 cards. Also, since trash a Copper kind of undoes the gain a Copper, this turns into a Witch + Cutpurse, because if they trash a Copper they'll be down a Copper that turn. Might be a little too strong. I would say +2$ instead of +2 cards, but then it's way too similar to Mountebank. I'm not sure.
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soulnet

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Re: Werewolf
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2013, 11:50:32 am »
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I like the idea, however, the Silver trashing is really political for multiplayer games.

Also, you should add "from their hands" to the trashing clause.

About strength, I'll only analyze for 2 players.

Without the silver trashing, this is way stronger than Witch. The attack is in fact even stronger than Witch + Cutpurse, because if you do trash a Copper is equivalent, but if you don't, Werewolf attack is meaner. And -$1 for next hand is really harsh in slogs, which Werewolf itself seems to lead into.

It also snowballs: Once your deck is diluted with Curses and Coppers, it would be increasingly hard to have a Silver in hand to kill the Werewolf, so most likely you want to trash the Silver as soon as possible.

As a one-shot, its still incredibly mean. Have the other player gain a Copper and a Curse and trash a Silver? I think I would just load on Werewolves even more than I do with Mountebank or Witch. I'd probably take Werewolves over MB and Witch if they are both available. The only caveat is with Silver flooders, particularly trader. Those counter Werewolves pretty hard, but that is ok.

In sumary, I think this card leads to slogs more than the other 5-cost cursers, especially having +2 cards as bonus, because it does not add economy to compensate for your own Silver trashing. Maybe allow the opponent to trash Curses as penalty? Trashing anything? Trashing any non-Victory?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Werewolf
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2013, 11:56:24 am »
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Maybe allow the opponent to trash Curses as penalty? Trashing anything? Trashing any non-Victory?

Maybe just allow them to reveal a Silver instead of trash it? Although, in that case trashing the Werewolf might be too harsh. Maybe revealing a Silver just banes the attack?
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SirPeebles

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Re: Werewolf
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2013, 12:02:42 pm »
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Werewolf
$5 Action-Attack

+$2

Each other player discards the top card of his deck.  If the discarded card is a Silver, trash this Werewolf.  Otherwise he gains a Curse, placing it on top of his deck.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Werewolf
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2013, 12:33:22 pm »
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Werewolf
$5 Action-Attack

+$2

Each other player discards the top card of his deck.  If the discarded card is a Silver, trash this Werewolf.  Otherwise he gains a Curse, placing it on top of his deck.

That's a good solution for the politics, but there's one other issue with the card that nobody's mentioned: it promotes boring money strategies.

Basically, if Werewolf is on the board, you're incentivized to buy Silver rather than interesting Kingdom cards. Then if everybody loads up on Silver, people won't want to buy Werewolf. So I predict it will lead to boring games.
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One Armed Man

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Re: Werewolf
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2013, 02:22:33 pm »
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Old Werewolf thread is here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3858.msg83874#msg83874

Here is the text I said a Werewolf could have:

$(4/5) Action- Attack
+2 X
Each other player can discard a Silver or 3 cards. If a player does, they draw a card. Otherwise, they gain a Curse.

I would rather not force a political game of "You have to trash his Werewolf, I did it last time!"
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