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Author Topic: Graverobber  (Read 27933 times)

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werothegreat

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Re: Graverobber
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2013, 09:45:02 pm »
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University/Graverobber: 8 Provinces in 20 turns.  The bot was stupid and Apprenticed everything.

http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20130115/log.5057ee40f93b9113b758b6b5.1358304257212.txt
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Powerman

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Re: Graverobber
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2013, 09:52:58 pm »
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The thing to me with Graverobber is it SHOULD be a very powerful card... depending on the board and if you use it right.  Ignoring specific interactions, both of it's options are very powerful.

Gaining a card up to 6 is very powerful, so powerful no other card has this possibility.  And the other is a (slightly) weaker Expand for $5.  Expand is a strong card... but at $7 it is often tough to get early, and most of the time you'll get at least $8 anyway and will just buy a province.

However, it is board reliant.  If there isn't other ways to gain cheaper action cards (ie. Ironworks, Rats) it loses something.  If there isn't a way other than itself to put cards into the trash (ie. Knights, Saboteur, Apprentice) it lose something.  Can it still be good?  Yeah.  But to me the most important thing to look for is what cards on the board help it.
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werothegreat

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Re: Graverobber
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2013, 09:56:26 pm »
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Gaining a card up to 6 is very powerful, so powerful no other card has this possibility.

Smugglers?

However, it is board reliant.

Yes.
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ftl

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Re: Graverobber
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2013, 09:57:49 pm »
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University/Graverobber: 8 Provinces in 20 turns.  The bot was stupid and Apprenticed everything.

http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20130115/log.5057ee40f93b9113b758b6b5.1358304257212.txt

But 4 provinces in 16 turns, though.
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werothegreat

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Re: Graverobber
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2013, 10:03:34 pm »
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University/Graverobber: 8 Provinces in 20 turns.  The bot was stupid and Apprenticed everything.

http://dominionlogs.goko.com/20130115/log.5057ee40f93b9113b758b6b5.1358304257212.txt

But 4 provinces in 16 turns, though.

I'd like to blame that partly on opening 5/2 on a Potion board.  I also may not have played it optimally.
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ftl

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Re: Graverobber
« Reply #30 on: January 15, 2013, 10:12:09 pm »
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Oh, yeah, 5/2 on potion is probably pretty bad.

I do see how uni would work though. You want a flood of 5-cost actions for graverobber, uni gives you that. And it's probably pretty safe against discard attacks (and against trashing attacks, lol)
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Powerman

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Re: Graverobber
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2013, 11:13:22 pm »
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Gaining a card up to 6 is very powerful, so powerful no other card has this possibility.

Smugglers?

Fair enough, I did forget about that one.  But that is completely out of your control... so, only partially.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Graverobber
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2013, 11:58:47 pm »
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Gaining a card up to 6 is very powerful, so powerful no other card has this possibility.

Smugglers?

Fair enough, I did forget about that one.  But that is completely out of your control... so, only partially.

Rogue. ;)

Also Gold gainers. ;) ;)
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Powerman

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Re: Graverobber
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2013, 12:02:05 am »
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Gaining a card up to 6 is very powerful, so powerful no other card has this possibility.

Smugglers?

Fair enough, I did forget about that one.  But that is completely out of your control... so, only partially.

Rogue. ;)

Also Gold gainers. ;) ;)

Gold gainers aren't on play...
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eHalcyon

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Re: Graverobber
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2013, 12:02:56 am »
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Gaining a card up to 6 is very powerful, so powerful no other card has this possibility.

Smugglers?

Fair enough, I did forget about that one.  But that is completely out of your control... so, only partially.

Rogue. ;)

Also Gold gainers. ;) ;)

Gold gainers aren't on play...

Explorer! :D
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Powerman

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Re: Graverobber
« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2013, 12:04:11 am »
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Gaining a card up to 6 is very powerful, so powerful no other card has this possibility.

Smugglers?

Fair enough, I did forget about that one.  But that is completely out of your control... so, only partially.

Rogue. ;)

Also Gold gainers. ;) ;)

Gold gainers aren't on play...

Explorer! :D

Explorer isn't a gold gainer.  Explorer is a terrible sometimes useful silver gainer.  Though now that I realize it, I rated Explorer really high in the rankings.  Hopefully I won't cause it to go up a spot...
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 12:06:58 am by Powerman »
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jomini

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Re: Graverobber
« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2013, 02:21:29 am »
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Ehh, there are lots of way to gain 6 coin (or higher), let us not forget about Jester, Governor, Mint, Hoard and Haggler. Combos can, of course, let us do wild stuff: Forge/Fortresses -> free province; Expand (Remodel, Farmland,  / Fortress -> free 7 coin card, Discard/Tunnel, Self-trashing (e.g. Embargo)/Market Square, and sundry other things all can hit.

So just gaining six coin in value isn't all that unusual. The bigger things are that gain goes on deck top (useful for setting up next turn or draw this turn in an engine) and that you can gain stuff that isn't gold. The problem is that "stuff that isn't gold" costing 6 doesn't end up in the Trash all too often. Sure, you might use the remodel family to put something to make a province, you might use the odd scaling TfB to hit something important, or you might use the upgrade family (e.g. Remake) to turn a 6 into a 7 .... but by and large you don't dump too many 6's into the trash. Even with cards like Procession, you normally want to keep most 6's in play, not in the trash. This distinctly lowers the utility of gaining up to 6 coin cards from the trash.
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werothegreat

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Re: Graverobber
« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2013, 10:09:39 am »
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The problem is that "stuff that isn't gold" costing 6 doesn't end up in the Trash all too often. Sure, you might use the remodel family to put something to make a province, you might use the odd scaling TfB to hit something important, or you might use the upgrade family (e.g. Remake) to turn a 6 into a 7 .... but by and large you don't dump too many 6's into the trash. Even with cards like Procession, you normally want to keep most 6's in play, not in the trash. This distinctly lowers the utility of gaining up to 6 coin cards from the trash.

Not at all.  In Border Village/Graverobber games, you can trash the Border Village for a Province, then gain it back with another Graverobber, gaining a Duchy with it.
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jomini

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Re: Graverobber
« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2013, 10:42:18 am »
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The problem is that "stuff that isn't gold" costing 6 doesn't end up in the Trash all too often. Sure, you might use the remodel family to put something to make a province, you might use the odd scaling TfB to hit something important, or you might use the upgrade family (e.g. Remake) to turn a 6 into a 7 .... but by and large you don't dump too many 6's into the trash. Even with cards like Procession, you normally want to keep most 6's in play, not in the trash. This distinctly lowers the utility of gaining up to 6 coin cards from the trash.

Not at all.  In Border Village/Graverobber games, you can trash the Border Village for a Province, then gain it back with another Graverobber, gaining a Duchy with it.

 ::) You have cited one counterexample to a claim of "by and large" and somehow this means "not at all". Yeah, Grvr does give you incentive to put expensive cards into the trash by nature of its gimped-expand nature, and of all the expensive actions, Bv is the single best one to use for that. However, my point was that gaining "up to six" in value isn't all that powerful, we have cards that can do it for $3, can gain up $9 and give you $2, etc. Without the gimped expand bit, Grvr would be a terrible card. As is, it is a balanced, decent card that I often don't bother using because I can go faster with other options.
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Eggplantation

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Re: Graverobber
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2013, 10:04:36 am »
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Thanks for the article werothegreat, only just found it now. Have been looking for this for a while :) +1!
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WalrusMcFishSr

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Re: Graverobber
« Reply #40 on: September 24, 2013, 12:59:01 pm »
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Gaining a card up to 6 is very powerful, so powerful no other card has this possibility.

Smugglers?

Fair enough, I did forget about that one.  But that is completely out of your control... so, only partially.

Rogue. ;)

Also Gold gainers. ;) ;)

Gold gainers aren't on play...

Explorer! :D

Soothsayer?
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Re: Graverobber
« Reply #41 on: September 24, 2013, 03:07:24 pm »
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Quote
...
Soothsayer?
wasn't released during the above exchange. 

bag of gold however also top-decks.  (it's a prize, so in theory it's supposed to be really good, the problem being duchy is usually better by the time you'd get this.)
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