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Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards  (Read 110480 times)

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ragingduckd

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #225 on: August 21, 2013, 11:03:47 am »
+11

Well, at least we've made Silverspawn feel welcome. ;)

FYI, Silverspawn this is just how we do business here. Welcome to the forums and congrats on stimulating your first strategy discussion. :D
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TWoos

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #226 on: August 21, 2013, 08:09:00 pm »
0

we actually played 2 games with double amb vs dual lookout and both of them very incredibly close early game and both of them he eventually won, but he's just better at this game, so it doesn't disproof or proof anything

all of that doesn't mean that ambassador isn't in fact better, but i still don't see it and what you wrote here doesn't exactly help making me believe anything.

Now you should play two more games with you taking amb/amb and him taking lookout/lookout.

It wouldn't prove anything either, but it would be interesting to see.
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markusin

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #227 on: August 22, 2013, 09:45:19 am »
+1

Why are we even talking about Lookout/Lookout vs. Ambassador/Ambassador? Even if Lookout/Lookout is the better opening (which I doubt), it doesn't give an indication that Lookout is better overall. It only suggests that Lookout is effective against Ambassador when both are on the board.

Look at Bishop vs. Gardens. Bishop practically hard counters a Gardens rush, but that has little to do with why it might be better than Gardens. Gosh.

Back to Lookout/Lookout vs. Amb/Amb, how is Lookout supposed to thin the deck with the junk being passed by Ambassador? The Ambassador player can typically get rid of 3 cards before the second reshuffle. The Lookout player can barely get a net junk card decrease of 1 before the second reshuffle.

Of course, the better opening depends on the board. If there is a great engine available, the Ambassador player has an additional attack in the form of Ambassador, and the Lookout player probably can't keep up without an Ambassador of their own. On the other hand, if the dominant strategy is Big Money+X or something, the Lookout opening probably has better chances.

Did we really have to necro this thread?
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Witherweaver

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #228 on: August 22, 2013, 09:47:36 am »
+5

..how is Lookout supposed to thin the deck with the junk being passed by Ambassador? ...

By buying a third lookout, obviously.
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eliegel34

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #229 on: August 22, 2013, 01:56:30 pm »
+2

Lookout also isn't vulnerable to Possession, so yep its better  ;).
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Witherweaver

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #230 on: August 22, 2013, 02:23:04 pm »
0

Lookout also isn't vulnerable to Possession, so yep its better  ;).

Technically, they can set up your next hand a little bit and discard your good cards.
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silverspawn

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #231 on: August 23, 2013, 11:22:19 am »
+1

Well, at least we've made Silverspawn feel welcome. ;)

FYI, Silverspawn this is just how we do business here. Welcome to the forums and congrats on stimulating your first strategy discussion. :D

thanks. i wrote another long reply yesterday, but when i was about to post it i realised it's not worth the effort; i'd have to answer yet another 20 different replies and the time is spent more productively actually playing dominion. also, a part of what makes discussions interesting is the possibility of being proven wrong which was not going to happen. so you may all consider the ratings a universal truth or whatever, i'll mb come back when i hit 6,5k+ rating

Kirian

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2013 Edition: $3 cards
« Reply #232 on: August 23, 2013, 11:42:01 am »
+3

also, a part of what makes discussions interesting is the possibility of being proven wrong which was not going to happen.

When your argument tries to rest on "Hey, you can't prove anything, therefore everything is relative, therefore I might be right," then your rhetoric is severely flawed.

We presented plenty of objective data, some of which you were literally present for (although several more games would have been a good idea), some of which came about through actual data analysis of hundreds of thousands of games.  We also presented subjective data based on multiple top players' experience; your dismissal of that is based on the metagame of a very different game.  (Starcraft has as much in common with Dominion as either game has in common with Minecraft.)

so you may all consider the ratings a universal truth or whatever, i'll mb come back when i hit 6,5k+ rating

I sincerely wish you good luck with that.  Getting into the top 20 on this leaderboard is probably a better goal, though the two are pretty well correlated.  I strongly suspect, however, that going after Lookout in the presence of other trashers will hamper that goal.
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