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[mypetrock]

With the advent of the auto-matching algorithms on isotropic, I've noticed a notable decline in the amount of intra-player civility. At the start of the game, fewer people are making the effort to wish their opponent "Good luck" (or even "gl") at the start of the game or to wait to exchange a "Good game" (or even "gg") at the end of the game before leaving to the lobby. I get that wherever the internet is, trolls follow. What really brought it to a head for me was playing someone who skipped the pleasantries, offered expletive-filled comments when I got a 5/2 start, continued by berating me for slow play (was not slow), and then had some colorful sign off comments at the end of the game. And then he left the game and got to inflict himself on someone else.

Is this just a case of me being oversensitive? Or is this something that other people have noticed?

mypetrock

[WanderingWinder]

I don't think it's really changed. There are just some people like this.

[Taco Lobster]

The worst thing I saw was a guy using a picture of a naked chick as his icon.  I don't mean to be a prude, but I tend to catch a game or two at work when things are slow, and don't really need to have that up on the screen.

[rrenaud]

tl:dr; manners are bullshit, but don't actively be a dick.

in my mind the gl/always gg stuff is basically vacuous.  If you hit me 5x in a row with a mountebank, honestly, I am not going to be happy.  And if you say gg 100% of the time, it's actually meaningless.  That gg contains almost no information.  But if you reserve it for only say, the 40% to 80% of the games that were actually good, then it now means something.

On the other hand, being a dick/crybaby/etc because things didn't go your way, even if it was just bad luck is annoying.

[Mean Mr Mustard]

I think someone called me a childish name one time out of a few thousand games.

[Axe Knight]

Any time you have a competitive environment, there's going to be trash talkers and a-holes.  Get used to it.  Luckily, they seem to be few and far between on isotropic.  I can only remember one time that I was really ticked off by what someone said. 

My favorite interactions between myself and other isotropic players are always after a good game with a lot of good play where we talk about what we did, what we could have done differently, and sometimes, play again.  I don't ever expect it, but it's quite nice. 

[Kuildeous]

I'm a little surprised to see that there is an expectation for GL and GG. I'll say them at times, but I don't automatically just type them in, and I generally don't rely on acronyms because GL and GG are just reflexes and look as sincere as someone saying, "bless you" when you sneeze.

But, jackassery simply needs to go away. I'll address such comments with either silence or something condescending, depending on my mood. In general, silence does a better job of pissing them off.

[Taco Lobster]

I play a lot on my ipad, so I use the acronyms because typing on it is a PIA.

[Blaeu]

IMO, some have expectations of "gl" or "gg" due to other games they have played.  Consider Starcraft or Starcraft 2, when you are playing a match and realize you have no chance to win and with to quit, it is "proper" in the community to "gg" before you leave.  This is further driven into peoples heads because all SC pros do it (bar Idra).

Other games have similar mannerisms that stem from an online source, like watching skilled players do it.  I rarely have issues like this when playing in person.  That said, I think "gg" no longer means good game as much as it means that you have enough respect for your opponent to acknowledge him before leaving the match.

[drg]

I agree with the people saying gg/gl are just irrelevant things that are expected to be typed but mean nothing.  There used to be people with very offensive names running around, those at least have vanished from what I've seen.

[Glooble]

Generally if I'm going to quit because I'm getting my ass handed to me so much its not worth it, I'll say something along the lines of "You've got this one, mind if I resign?" That seems like the polite thing to do to me.

[Arya Stark]

2 big thumbs up on everything rrenaud said!!!

[Stoc]

Generally if I'm going to quit because I'm getting my ass handed to me so much its not worth it, I'll say something along the lines of "You've got this one, mind if I resign?" That seems like the polite thing to do to me.

Has anyone asked you to stay? Sometimes I'd like to see where my deck goes (but I'd never ask someone to stay in a game where they're obviously not having fun). For that reason, I tend to stay and play out games even when it's clear I'm going to lose.

[Taqman]

I much prefer someone to be a dick than say "gl, hf" before every game.  I mean have fun?  Really??? Who started this silliness? 

And frankly, I hope that you get horrible luck when you face me, I'll need all the help I can get to break into the coveted top 25 spot.

[guided]

gl (or hf) & gg are basically the "Hello" and "Goodbye" of online gaming. It's polite acknowledgement, analogous to the politeness you'd offer people you meet in real life by verbally greeting them. I acknowledge my isotropic opponents' existence by saying something to them before and after each match (at minimum), and I'm always a little put off when people say literally nothing the whole time.

If I don't think it was a good game, I find something else to say instead.

[Blaeu]

I much prefer someone to be a dick than say "gl, hf" before every game.  I mean have fun?  Really??? Who started this silliness? 

And frankly, I hope that you get horrible luck when you face me, I'll need all the help I can get to break into the coveted top 25 spot.

Although I do not disagree with you directly, I think you are overlooking the sportsmanship part of the game.  When I play, I want to win, and I want to have fun doing so.  However, I respect the fact that my opponent wants the same thing.  I will usually say "gg" when I win a match because I appreciate the fact that my opponent stayed in until the game was over, even though he was losing.  If it was a close game, then the "gg" actually has real meaning.

When I lose, I will also "gg" because I want to let the opponent know that even though I lost, those are the breaks and I don't hold anything against him.

Sure, all of this should be assumed, but it's not.  It does seem silly to wish you opponent "good luck" before the match starts, because as you said, you hope they have horrible luck and lose.  In the same light as "gg" tough, this is just a way to say, "we both want to win so lets both do our best."

Even when people do not realize they are implying this when they type "gl hf" and "gg," they are still actually implying it just because they chose to type it when they could have just said nothing.

[Jack Rudd]

I think that next time I start a game on Isotropic, I shall say "I am alive and so are you". That is essentially the message conveyed there.

[Elyv]

I like to start games with hi hf; that way, I can be polite, but without the inconvenience of pretending that I want my opponent to get lucky.

[Stoc]

I've participated in a lot of online communities over the years, and I picked up "gl" and "gg" on Isotropic because that's what this community does. I agree with Blaeu, I say "gg" as another way of saying "no hard feelings" when I lose and as a nod of respect when I win. I have left games without saying "gg" in the past, usually when the opponent did or said something I thought was spiteful.

You may as well disdain the people at work who say "Hi" as you pass them in the hallway.

[theory]

I much prefer someone to be a dick than say "gl, hf" before every game.  I mean have fun?  Really??? Who started this silliness?

Why do chess players shake hands before and after the match?  Why do fencers salute each other before the match?  Why do hockey players line up for the traditional team handshake after playoff series?  Why do Ultimate players cheer their opponents after the game?  Why do we say hello to our co-workers as we pass them in the hallway?  Why football coaches seek each other out after games to congratulate the winner?

Saying "GG" to your opponent is telling him that he played well.  It's respectful and polite.  The fact that you are bitter does not and should not take away from the fact that your opponent played well and defeated you.  If you don't believe in this philosophy then don't worry!  You need not worry about not appearing well-mannered and respectful, because you aren't.

[fp]

Silly idea 1:

Why don't we create a simple list of "civility" rules that people can read and understand. Perhaps one of the issues about civility is that people don't know about or understand the unwritten rules. If we write them someone where people can find and read them, I suspect more people will be willing to follow them.

Question 2:

What are the civility issues regarding suggestions and advice? When is it okay to tell a player: Thief is a bad card (in 2 players), etc.?

[Blaeu]

Silly idea 1:

Why don't we create a simple list of "civility" rules that people can read and understand. Perhaps one of the issues about civility is that people don't know about or understand the unwritten rules. If we write them someone where people can find and read them, I suspect more people will be willing to follow them.

Question 2:

What are the civility issues regarding suggestions and advice? When is it okay to tell a player: Thief is a bad card (in 2 players), etc.?

People who don't know about or understand the unwritten rules of being civil are typically people who just are not civil.  Making a list for people to follow wouldn't actually help anything, it would just try to force the issue.  Also, I don't want people to "gg" because they feel they have to, I want them to "gg" because they want to.  If they feel forced, it defeats the purpose.

People who want to be civil and don't know how will learn on their own.

[fp]

People who don't know about or understand the unwritten rules of being civil are typically people who just are not civil.  Making a list for people to follow wouldn't actually help anything, it would just try to force the issue.  Also, I don't want people to "gg" because they feel they have to, I want them to "gg" because they want to.  If they feel forced, it defeats the purpose.

People who want to be civil and don't know how will learn on their own.

For the most part, I will not disagree- most people who are not civil just don't care. However, there are a small group of people who just do know any better through perhaps no fault of their own. At the very least it would not hurt to have a suggest list of civil "rules" so that those who are in that small group who honestly do not know any better can become informed.

[Zaphod]

Yeah, the rudeness factor does seem to be going up a little.  And I'm not talking about people not saying "gl hf" or "gg", because everyone forgets to do that once in awhile.


A couple of weeks ago, someone beat me on isotropic and then posted something like, "That was too easy.  A Fairgrounds strategy?  Really?  That was stupid."  That ticked me off a little.  When someone loses and posts a snarky remark, it doesn't typically bother me, because I've done it too (I'm not proud of it, but I have).  I find my anger in such situations is really directed at myself for having a poor strategy, not at my opponent.  As a rule, I try to avoid personal attacks, and I would like to see others do the same.


We all know that the internet is somewhat anonymous, and therefore people tend to be themselves more than they would in real life.  If someone would be polite in person for selfish reasons only, he probably won't bother to be polite online.  I feel compelled to remind these people of something Joss Whedon once said - "Always be yourself...unless you suck."

[Eagle]

If I feel like it was a good game, I'll throw out a gg.  But I'm not going to say it if I didn't feel like it really was...  In that case you might get a "thanks for the game".

As for the beginning, gl, hf, etc seems crazy to me.  I'll stick with "Hello" or "Hi "

That way I'm not pretending to wish good luck, the whole point of being here is to have fun, and I still (hopefully) don't come across as being inconsiderate.

Sometimes if I'm playing against someone who isn't being friendly towards me, I'm not going to stick around to exchange false pleasantries afterwards.

That said, if I lose 115 to -3, and I say "gg"...you can assume that's a snarky comment.  Chances are what's coming out of my mouth doesn't start with g's...

As for intentionally being offensive, complaining about your slow play when you're not being slow, naked women in the avatars, etc.  I think that's crossing the line.