Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Kirian]

Okay, to be fair to him, I definitely had a big advantage from shuffle luck early on. It's just, there's no way that the first shuffle gives you THAT much advantage. Like, I think I played well enough, he played pretty close to optimally, and I won anyway. Okay, this is actually a big part of the game.

I think it's quite possible for the opening split to bring one's chances of winning to 10-20%.  Opening Mountebank/Chapel or Witch/Chapel vs. Silver/Chapel is not a guaranteed win, but it sure it close.

[WanderingWinder]

Okay, to be fair to him, I definitely had a big advantage from shuffle luck early on. It's just, there's no way that the first shuffle gives you THAT much advantage. Like, I think I played well enough, he played pretty close to optimally, and I won anyway. Okay, this is actually a big part of the game.

I think it's quite possible for the opening split to bring one's chances of winning to 10-20%.  Opening Mountebank/Chapel or Witch/Chapel vs. Silver/Chapel is not a guaranteed win, but it sure it close.

Nope. That's not even 2-1 (basically 3-2), according to the sims, and I can't think they play them THAT badly.
The game in question was highway/chapel vs silver/chapel.

[shMerker]

I haven't read this whole thread yet but I just wanted to throw in that I usually just take it as a compliment when the other player resigns. I didn't just win, I proved to the other player that he couldn't stop me. To me that's an extra victory. I don't specifically shoot for resignations--I wouldn't try setting up a relentless attack if I don't think it's also the most effective way to win, for instance--but I'm never offended by them.

If you feel like your opponent's complaints after that point are rude remember that it's possible you just caused him to feel a bit of despair. That's not pleasant even when the stakes are as low as they are in a friendly game. It takes practice to learn how to lose gracefully and learn from it and games like this are a good instrument for that growth of character.

[Diving Pikachu]

A strange exchange:

16:04 Vermont: Howdy
16:05 Vermont: Greetings
16:07 Vermont: Bonjour
16:08 Vermont: Guten tag
16:09 Vermont: Aloha?
16:10 Vermont: You do realize you are playing a person and not the computer, right?
16:11 cornucopoo-ah: i've never encountered a bot on isotropic....
16:11 cornucopoo-ah: have you?
16:11 Vermont: oh good, you are just rude then
16:11 Vermont: Good to know 
16:12 cornucopoo-ah: not talking is not rude
16:12 Vermont: Actually, it is. I can't imagine you completely ignoring someone that says hello to you.
16:13 Vermont: There are solitaire apps online that may be a better fit for you.

I eventually get the upperhand, and he starts playing very slowly...

16:21 cornucopoo-ah: Are you lagging or do you have some difficult decisions to make?
16:21 cornucopoo-ah: Or is there something else preoccupying you?
16:21 Vermont: slow playing is not rude
16:32 cornucopoo-ah: Langsames Spielen ist nicht unhöflich?
16:35 cornucopoo-ah: You were going so slow I had the chance to make you resign.
16:36 Vermont: Yup; doing other stuff.
16:37 cornucopoo-ah: I see the button right now.
16:37 cornucopoo-ah: You have ten seconds to press something
16:38 Vermont: lol. Why on earth would you want this to go longer? I'm just doing other work and delaying as long as I can.
16:38 Vermont: I figure we should both be rude.

We went on for a bit before he eventually disconnected.

[RisingJaguar]

A strange exchange:

16:04 Vermont: Howdy
16:05 Vermont: Greetings
16:07 Vermont: Bonjour
16:08 Vermont: Guten tag
16:09 Vermont: Aloha?
16:10 Vermont: You do realize you are playing a person and not the computer, right?
16:11 cornucopoo-ah: i've never encountered a bot on isotropic....
16:11 cornucopoo-ah: have you?
16:11 Vermont: oh good, you are just rude then
16:11 Vermont: Good to know 
16:12 cornucopoo-ah: not talking is not rude
16:12 Vermont: Actually, it is. I can't imagine you completely ignoring someone that says hello to you.
16:13 Vermont: There are solitaire apps online that may be a better fit for you.

I eventually get the upperhand, and he starts playing very slowly...

16:21 cornucopoo-ah: Are you lagging or do you have some difficult decisions to make?
16:21 cornucopoo-ah: Or is there something else preoccupying you?
16:21 Vermont: slow playing is not rude
16:32 cornucopoo-ah: Langsames Spielen ist nicht unhöflich?
16:35 cornucopoo-ah: You were going so slow I had the chance to make you resign.
16:36 Vermont: Yup; doing other stuff.
16:37 cornucopoo-ah: I see the button right now.
16:37 cornucopoo-ah: You have ten seconds to press something
16:38 Vermont: lol. Why on earth would you want this to go longer? I'm just doing other work and delaying as long as I can.
16:38 Vermont: I figure we should both be rude.

We went on for a bit before he eventually disconnected.

I'm not sure if its just me, but its hard for me to tell who you're trying to say is rude...

Edit: Nvm... I thought you were Vermont

[Piemaster]

I'm not sure if this qualifies as lack of civility or a very elaborate joke or just completely batshit crazy.  Either way it is by far the most hilarious game I have ever played on Isotropic.  I've left the conversation in its entirity.  The details of the game are not important except for saying that it was a three-player Colony/Hunting Party/Scrying Pool game so it went on for a very long time.

11:22 Piemaster: Hi all
11:22 #OccupyCouncilRoom: I DEMAND MORE PIE.
11:22 * #OccupyCouncilRoom takes pie.
11:22 Piemaster: Is this a joke account?
11:22 #OccupyCouncilRoom: I will be destroying your pie shop.
11:22 Piemaster: Noes, not my pie shop!!!
11:23 #OccupyCouncilRoom: You will be exploited for the highest amount of short term pie possible.
11:23 #OccupyCouncilRoom: We do things like businesses here.
11:23 Piemaster: Just for the record is this an ironic account or do you actually believe that Occupy crap?
11:25 (#OccupyCouncilRoom has muted your chat messages.)
11:26 #OccupyCouncilRoom: Just goes to show you, elitists are inferior. Maybe if they learned to have fun I wouldn't feel the need to shit all over them by muting their messages.
11:27 Piemaster: LOL, you're funny
11:28 potluck: wow interesting observation... all that insight from a name... that is very insightful...
11:28 #OccupyCouncilRoom: Is he ranting now?
11:29 #OccupyCouncilRoom: Dear gawd. What an inferior being.
11:30 #OccupyCouncilRoom: Can't wait until we cleanse the Earth of that scaly business-degree slave-race.
11:30 Piemaster: This has to be the most surreal rant I have ever heard on CR
11:42 #OccupyCouncilRoom: I wonder if the pie-maker's going to figure out that being in control of something doesn't make you better.
11:43 #OccupyCouncilRoom: Those who cannot yield when needed break.
11:45 potluck: a rolling stone gathers no moss, you don't always get you want, never judge a book by its cover....
11:45 #OccupyCouncilRoom: I'm glad I muted him. I don't need to put up with the mie-maker's nonsense.
11:45 #OccupyCouncilRoom: I tried to joke around with him, but then - like all members of the slave-race - he lost his temper.
11:46 Piemaster: Now I'm mildly curious whether he actually has muted me or not...
11:46 #OccupyCouncilRoom: Incidentally, you can mute by using "/mute before" & you won't have to see his ranting either.
11:46 #OccupyCouncilRoom: Ugh... hand full of Victory points. Hate that.
11:47 potluck: I will most likey loose, but it has been fun playing with you to.... this would have to be one of the most interesting discussions I have been apart of..... thankyou for the entertainment
11:48 #OccupyCouncilRoom: All about kindness.
11:48 Piemaster: Nice playing with you potluck and, um... interesting playing with you Occupy
11:49 #OccupyCouncilRoom: If your day has been improved I am gladdened.
11:49 potluck: hahahaha..... this is why I love the internets......
11:49 #OccupyCouncilRoom: Is he still ranting?
11:49 #OccupyCouncilRoom: Gawd.
11:50 potluck: [wipes tears from eyes... while laughing]
11:50 #OccupyCouncilRoom: He must really know that the #Occupy movement is correct if a name on a web site makes him that crazy.
11:50 Piemaster: I am actually laughing IRL now
11:51 #OccupyCouncilRoom: Cognitive dissonance is a terrible thing. Totally convinces people that they couldn't possibly be wrong. That's what all people who support the 1% are... wrong.
11:52 #OccupyCouncilRoom: Sometimes just relaxing & letting them embarass themselves is the best approach.
11:53 potluck: welll... you can lead a horse to water... but you can not give it milk
11:53 Piemaster: I don't think I want to buy that last Colony, this game is just so amusing
11:53 #OccupyCouncilRoom: I would be lying if I said I didn't wish that pie-maker could rise above their heritage. Isn't the pie-maker's fault that they're from an obsolete bloodline.
11:54 potluck: hey.. why is that horse drinking milk? Its occupying the water hole... man I need to master the situation.. that will make me lucky
11:55 * #OccupyCouncilRoom utterly dominates the pie-maker.
11:55 Piemaster: Sorry guys I'm going to have to buy the last Colony.  It's been... well, something, probably good
11:56 * #OccupyCouncilRoom wins; moral victory.
11:56 potluck: well played you two...
11:56 #OccupyCouncilRoom has returned to the lobby.
11:56 potluck has returned to the lobby.

[barsooma]

A strange exchange:

16:04 Vermont: Howdy
16:05 Vermont: Greetings
16:07 Vermont: Bonjour
16:08 Vermont: Guten tag
16:09 Vermont: Aloha?
16:10 Vermont: You do realize you are playing a person and not the computer, right?
16:11 cornucopoo-ah: i've never encountered a bot on isotropic....
16:11 cornucopoo-ah: have you?
16:11 Vermont: oh good, you are just rude then
16:11 Vermont: Good to know 
16:12 cornucopoo-ah: not talking is not rude
16:12 Vermont: Actually, it is. I can't imagine you completely ignoring someone that says hello to you.
16:13 Vermont: There are solitaire apps online that may be a better fit for you.

I eventually get the upperhand, and he starts playing very slowly...

16:21 cornucopoo-ah: Are you lagging or do you have some difficult decisions to make?
16:21 cornucopoo-ah: Or is there something else preoccupying you?
16:21 Vermont: slow playing is not rude
16:32 cornucopoo-ah: Langsames Spielen ist nicht unhöflich?
16:35 cornucopoo-ah: You were going so slow I had the chance to make you resign.
16:36 Vermont: Yup; doing other stuff.
16:37 cornucopoo-ah: I see the button right now.
16:37 cornucopoo-ah: You have ten seconds to press something
16:38 Vermont: lol. Why on earth would you want this to go longer? I'm just doing other work and delaying as long as I can.
16:38 Vermont: I figure we should both be rude.

We went on for a bit before he eventually disconnected.

Yep, I've run into this guy before.
In my case he was saying his greetings about 30s apart, but on his turn and not doing any playing in the meantime.
I also didn't say anything except finally "Hurry up and lose " (Obviously joking since hadn't even finished opening yet).
He then proceeded to slowplay to "Teach me a lesson about rudeness".

[Kuildeous]

11:23 Piemaster: Just for the record is this an ironic account or do you actually believe that Occupy crap?

Actually, I think this is uncivil. There are movements and beliefs that people hold dear. Dismissing those beliefs as crap is fine in some venues, but I don't really see it as being appropriate in a game. If I wandered into a game and, based on someone's username, said, "You believe in that pro-life/gay marriage rights/gun rights/health care reform crap," then I shouldn't be surprised if that other person goes off on me.

The guy had a humorous username. Maybe he believed in Occupy Wall Street. Maybe he was just taking the piss. In any case, you made it personal. Looks like no harm was done. The guy was clearly just dicking around having a grand ole time. The other player didn't take offense, but he could just as easily have been a supporter of OWS and been offended.

Regardless, it was a humorous exchange, but I can see how it could have turned ugly. That has the potential of turning ugly any time someone introduces a politically charged statement.

[theory]

I can't tell if "Occupy Council Room" is inherently ironic or unintentionally fitting, given that Council Room is essentially redistributive (knowledge-wise) but made by two IRL 1%ers.

[Piemaster]

11:23 Piemaster: Just for the record is this an ironic account or do you actually believe that Occupy crap?

Actually, I think this is uncivil. There are movements and beliefs that people hold dear. Dismissing those beliefs as crap is fine in some venues, but I don't really see it as being appropriate in a game.

To be honest, I would probably agree with you if I had used that sentence as an opener.  But by then he had already made fun of my own username and started ramming his beliefs down my throat.  I didn't know if he was joking or not (I still don't really) so I felt my reply served to both find out if he was joking and, if he wasn't, make it clear that I didn't share his beliefs and didn't appreciate him trying to bludgeon me with them.  I think people's beliefs (of any kind) are fair game when they slap them on the table in this manner.

Nevertheless I'm not trying to play the victim here, I acknowledge I might have been more tactful, I just thought it was a humourous 'conversation' that's all.

[Kuildeous]

Fair enough. It was quite an exchange, and I have no idea if the guy was continuing to be facetious later on or really was taking offense. I suspect he was goofing around and saw a chink in your armor that he decided to exploit. Anyone who refers to a movement/belief as crap has revealed how he feels about it.

And come off it, theory. We all know that OccupyCouncilRoom is your alt. Don't hide it.

[Kirian]

I can't tell if "Occupy Council Room" is inherently ironic or unintentionally fitting, given that Council Room is essentially redistributive (knowledge-wise) but made by two IRL 1%ers.

A newly-minted lawyer makes enough to get into the 1%?  That would be surprising.  (No idea what rrenaud does.  Just pointing out that a lot of people who "feel" like they're in the 1% really aren't... which points out how incredibly high the 1% is.)

[Piemaster]

Depends what you mean by 1%.  On a global scale, I think you only need to earn $35,000 per year to be in the top 1%.  Ironically this likely includes large numbers of the Occupy movement

[theory]

I can't tell if "Occupy Council Room" is inherently ironic or unintentionally fitting, given that Council Room is essentially redistributive (knowledge-wise) but made by two IRL 1%ers.

A newly-minted lawyer makes enough to get into the 1%?  That would be surprising.  (No idea what rrenaud does.  Just pointing out that a lot of people who "feel" like they're in the 1% really aren't... which points out how incredibly high the 1% is.)

I meant it more figuratively than literally.  After some research I think 5% nationally and 10% NYC is a closer estimate.

rrenaud is a software engineer, and rather overpaid as well (his words, not mine), though I think his salary is much more justifiable than mine.

[Ozle]

11:23 Piemaster: Just for the record is this an ironic account or do you actually believe that Occupy crap?

Actually, I think this is uncivil. There are movements and beliefs that people hold dear. Dismissing those beliefs as crap is fine in some venues, but I don't really see it as being appropriate in a game. If I wandered into a game and, based on someone's username, said, "You believe in that pro-life/gay marriage rights/gun rights/health care reform crap," then I shouldn't be surprised if that other person goes off on me.

The guy had a humorous username. Maybe he believed in Occupy Wall Street. Maybe he was just taking the piss. In any case, you made it personal. Looks like no harm was done. The guy was clearly just dicking around having a grand ole time. The other player didn't take offense, but he could just as easily have been a supporter of OWS and been offended.

Regardless, it was a humorous exchange, but I can see how it could have turned ugly. That has the potential of turning ugly any time someone introduces a politically charged statement.

Surely the first person to bring up the political statement was the guy having the username in the first place! If I didn't want to discuss an emotionally charged subject with people then I wouldn't stick it in my username!


According to us census in 2005, 1.5% of us people earned 250k+

[Ozle]

Owning $500k puts you in richest 1% of the world according to an in citable source
Earning 50k+ puts you in that top warning bracket

[Kuildeous]

Surely the first person to bring up the political statement was the guy having the username in the first place! If I didn't want to discuss an emotionally charged subject with people then I wouldn't stick it in my username!

Invitation for a discussion? Probably. Invitation to attack a belief? I wouldn't think so. OCR is a pretty neutral satirizing name. You have no idea from reading it where that person stands on the topic. He took a national icon and added a Dominion twist to it. There are tons of Occupy satires out there. Even Star Wars fans have gotten into the game (http://occupycoruscant.org/). The name OCR makes no statement about whether the movement is good or bad. If, on the other hand, someone came in with the name of "AbortionIsMurder" or "IAmThe99%" or "LetGaysMarry" then a very specific statement is being made, and I would agree that the person with that name started it.

Of course, making up such a joke name means that it should come as no surprise if someone brings it up, and this guy clearly was ready for a response. But he didn't insult someone's ideology off the bat. If someone has the username of JesusChristSuperstar, that could mean any number of things, but I don't think any of those things is that he's stating an opinion about religion. If I say, "What's with your username? Are you one of those stupid Christians?" then I have started the polarizing argument.

My thoughts, of course. Unless a name clearly contains something incendiary or opinionated, I treat it as just a name. I have no idea what motivated him to come up with that name, but I won't discuss that name in a derogatory fashion unless I'm prepared for a fight (and really I just want to play the game).

[Ozle]

Its a funny username, but you got to realise that it might put peoples backs up if they really don't like the Occupy movement (I would imagine there are quite a few) and be prepared for it, especially if you are going to go round being a little bit crazy!

Personally I thought it was quite funny (Although If I saw one more banner of someone saying 'We are the 99%' then i'd want to shove it down thier throat and point out some basic maths and life lessons to them)

[large wooden badger]

Hi.

I understand some of your concerns.  It does seem like more users were more polite and chatty 6+ months ago, but I don't think that everybody agrees on what is polite.  To me, "gl" or "good luck" sometimes implies that I'll need it.  I think that "gg" is just a way of politely being sportsmanlike and ending the conversation to go back to the queue or exit the site rather than talk about it.  If I've routed someone, I usually say "thanks for the game" instead of "gg" (which I often take the time to type out completely) but perhaps that seems snarky to some, so there will always be differences of opinions and some people's intentions misunderstood.

Automatch does play a role in one respect, in my opinion: Why isn't there an automatch option to have identical opening hands, as there is in the proposal tool?  Getting, say, a Margrave and a Crossroads vs. silver/silver is naturally going to frustrate the one with the 3/4 or 4/3 combo in those games.  It's an aspect of the game that could and should be better online than with the boxed cards (and I think that DXV should consider amending the basic rules for that in upcoming editions also).  If not identical starting hands, then how about randomizing which player goes first and the other player chooses his/her opening hands?

Regarding inappropriate usernames and icons, I could not agree more.  It shows no originality or class, so choose something better.

[Piemaster]

To be honest, the fact that we are even debating whether or not it is polite to say 'gg' or sincere to say 'gl' indicates that the community on Isotropic is far better than 90% of other communities in similar games.  In a lot of games I consider myself lucky if I leave the table not having cancer wished on me and/or my family.

[Graystripe77]

I wouldn't say this is really a decline in civility, but I just saw the funniest thing:

theory and domionionstrategy.com is poorly written begin a game.

That's pretty ironic.

[theory]

Well, I was supposed to go to lunch, but just had to check out what he had to say.  Turns out it was just a misunderstanding

[jsh357]

Well, I was supposed to go to lunch, but just had to check out what he had to say.  Turns out it was just a misunderstanding

I keep seeing that other blogger in the Great Hall.  He seems awfully new to the game to be giving out tips!

[Taco Lobster]

I can't tell if "Occupy Council Room" is inherently ironic or unintentionally fitting, given that Council Room is essentially redistributive (knowledge-wise) but made by two IRL 1%ers.

A newly-minted lawyer makes enough to get into the 1%?  That would be surprising.  (No idea what rrenaud does.  Just pointing out that a lot of people who "feel" like they're in the 1% really aren't... which points out how incredibly high the 1% is.)

I meant it more figuratively than literally.  After some research I think 5% nationally and 10% NYC is a closer estimate.

rrenaud is a software engineer, and rather overpaid as well (his words, not mine), though I think his salary is much more justifiable than mine.

As a first year attorney, you're not even an accredited investor, much less a member of the 1%.   

Edit: Hooray, based on that NY Times map, I can still claim my proletariat status! 

[Papa Luigi]

I'd just like to apologize to the guy I resigned on last night without warning. Timinion, I knew we were just revving up a potentially good Minion game, but nature called, and then the wife called. I realize that it would have been more considerate of me to at least say "gotta go, sorry" before leaving, but I at least tried to spare you the frustration of waiting 2 minutes for me to drop out.

I try to give people the benefit of the doubt when they leave or time out, or even when they just play slowly. Luckily for me I haven't encountered anyone who was actively a jerk in chat or anything. Usually people aren't that talkative, but I never interpret the lack of a "gg" as rudeness.