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[eHalcyon]

@xeiron, saw you briefly but then you disappeared.  Froakie selection is smaller than I thought; most of my 4IV Froakies are either not Protean or not Timid.  I have two females with 2IVs, several timid males with 3IVs including speed, a modest 4IV male with speed (missing sp atk and defense) and a timid male with 4IVs (missing speed and attack).

[Tables]

Just managed to finish catching them all. 596 pokemon caught in the National Dex. The remaining 122 are not available in any way in Kalos, so I can't get them until pokebank opens up sometime next month (can't remember exactly when it does, but I think it's close to Christmas).

Much to my amusement, I didn't need to buy a single item from the Battle Maison. Apparently Shiny Stones are sufficiently rare that people will trade Magmortars and Gliscors and the like for Shiny Stone evolved pokemon.

Now to decide what to do next. I suspect not play pokemon for a while is the answer. That or play through Pearl again, transfer all the starters and other version exclusives I can into Black...

[Dsell]

Just managed to finish catching them all. 596 pokemon caught in the National Dex. The remaining 122 are not available in any way in Kalos, so I can't get them until pokebank opens up sometime next month (can't remember exactly when it does, but I think it's close to Christmas).

Much to my amusement, I didn't need to buy a single item from the Battle Maison. Apparently Shiny Stones are sufficiently rare that people will trade Magmortars and Gliscors and the like for Shiny Stone evolved pokemon.

Now to decide what to do next. I suspect not play pokemon for a while is the answer. That or play through Pearl again, transfer all the starters and other version exclusives I can into Black...

On the flipside of this, I'm going to be restarting my game tomorrow!

[Tables]

Got any good pokemon you wouldn't mind giving away ? Or uh maybe ones you'd like someone to hold as well, I can do that too.

[Dsell]

Got any good pokemon you wouldn't mind giving away ? Or uh maybe ones you'd like someone to hold as well, I can do that too.

I actually don't really know, I still haven't played since the sdcardgate crash last month. However, I'm traveling tomorrow and told my roommate that that's when I wanted it back. I know he has at least 8 badges but I don't know about other stuff. I'd be happy to ask, though!

[eHalcyon]

Just managed to finish catching them all. 596 pokemon caught in the National Dex. The remaining 122 are not available in any way in Kalos, so I can't get them until pokebank opens up sometime next month (can't remember exactly when it does, but I think it's close to Christmas).

Much to my amusement, I didn't need to buy a single item from the Battle Maison. Apparently Shiny Stones are sufficiently rare that people will trade Magmortars and Gliscors and the like for Shiny Stone evolved pokemon.

Now to decide what to do next. I suspect not play pokemon for a while is the answer. That or play through Pearl again, transfer all the starters and other version exclusives I can into Black...

Huh, is that so?  I haven't really used any evolutionary stones other than the three you can buy.  I got all the stone evos by putting togepi up for trade.  Maybe I should try to get more stone evo pokemon to trade for those trade evo pokemon.  Which shiny stone evolved pokemon do you find was the best trade fodder?

[Tables]

Just managed to finish catching them all. 596 pokemon caught in the National Dex. The remaining 122 are not available in any way in Kalos, so I can't get them until pokebank opens up sometime next month (can't remember exactly when it does, but I think it's close to Christmas).

Much to my amusement, I didn't need to buy a single item from the Battle Maison. Apparently Shiny Stones are sufficiently rare that people will trade Magmortars and Gliscors and the like for Shiny Stone evolved pokemon.

Now to decide what to do next. I suspect not play pokemon for a while is the answer. That or play through Pearl again, transfer all the starters and other version exclusives I can into Black...

Huh, is that so?  I haven't really used any evolutionary stones other than the three you can buy.  I got all the stone evos by putting togepi up for trade.  Maybe I should try to get more stone evo pokemon to trade for those trade evo pokemon.  Which shiny stone evolved pokemon do you find was the best trade fodder?

I didn't use really many of them. Honestly I extrapolated a bit - put a Tokekiss up and got it traded for a Gliscor almost immediately. But if you were going to try and collect they (you can get them from the Roserade Secret Training), I'd go for Cinccino or Togekiss.

[eHalcyon]

I'm gonna try to trade for some of these things with Sylveon.

[eHalcyon]

Report: The first Sylveon I put up got me a Rhyperior fairly quickly.  The second I put up did not get me a Gliscor.  I've put it up again, this time holding a Maranga Berry.  I also have a female Sylveon in reserve.  I think that Gliscor is the only thing I still need to see before I can get the Oval Charm.  I'm currently more interested in breeding than in actually completing the pokedex.

Did you manage to get the other legendary birds through trading?  If so, what did you put up?

[jsh357]

Report: The first Sylveon I put up got me a Rhyperior fairly quickly.  The second I put up did not get me a Gliscor.  I've put it up again, this time holding a Maranga Berry.  I also have a female Sylveon in reserve.  I think that Gliscor is the only thing I still need to see before I can get the Oval Charm.  I'm currently more interested in breeding than in actually completing the pokedex.

Did you manage to get the other legendary birds through trading?  If so, what did you put up?

For the birds, I simply traded my own birds and got all of them in a cycle.  If you wanted to keep more than one, not sure what you could do other than trade something really hard to find and evolve.

[eHalcyon]

Report: The first Sylveon I put up got me a Rhyperior fairly quickly.  The second I put up did not get me a Gliscor.  I've put it up again, this time holding a Maranga Berry.  I also have a female Sylveon in reserve.  I think that Gliscor is the only thing I still need to see before I can get the Oval Charm.  I'm currently more interested in breeding than in actually completing the pokedex.

Did you manage to get the other legendary birds through trading?  If so, what did you put up?

For the birds, I simply traded my own birds and got all of them in a cycle.  If you wanted to keep more than one, not sure what you could do other than trade something really hard to find and evolve.

Yeah, I figure that was a way.  I'd like to keep them all though, especially my own bird.  I started with Fennekin for several reasons, one of which was that Zapdos is my favourite of the three.

I still haven't gone to track it down 10(?) times yet, but I've run into it 4-5 times by already just from hatching eggs and accidentally cycling into the grass.  It'll probably settle in the Den eventually without me having to purposely chase after it.

[Tables]

I just finished making and utilising a 250,000 x 50 spreadsheet full of formulae to calculate every possible pokemon type's weaknesses and the like - assuming pokemon could have any number of types. The results were rather interesting to say the least. I was most interested in which types were the strongest and/or weakest defensively, which is a pretty tough thing to say objectively, since you need to compare things like one immunity and two weaknesses to one weakness and two resistances, and with 250,000+ type combinations (actually 262,144 if you want to be accurate) the only realistic way to go through and compare it is using a formula which judges things for itself.

I still don't quite know what to do with the formula mind... but a preliminary estimate formula (which likes immunities, dislikes weaknesses and really dislikes double (or more) weaknesses) tells me the best type combination is something like Normal + Fire + Water + Electric + Poison + Ground + Flying + Ghost + Dragon + Dark + Steel + Fairy with possibly also Fighting added (Fighting only changes what weaknesses/resistances there are and leaves the number of each untouched). This crazy type combination gives you immunity to every type which can have an immunity, as well as double (or more) resistances to Fire, Grass, Flying, Bug and Steel and normal resistance to Fairy and Dark. Only Water, Ice and Rock hit for neutral damage. The Fighting variant gets Fairy neutrality for Rock resistance and reduces the Flying resistance to single in exchange for Dark double resistance (it also makes Bug go from dealing 1/32 damage to 1/64 damage...).

The worst combination? I'm less happy with what the formula is spurting out for this, but I know why it's happening. The combination is Grass + Ice + Fighting + Ground + Flying + Psychic + Bug + Dragon + Dark. This combination gives a lovely 3 immunities and even 4 resistances... but 8 weaknesses including 8x Ice, 8x Flying, 8x Fairy and 4x Fire. The thing I have to wonder though is, since this can can switch in on three possible types with immunity, is it really so bad, even if it's basically guaranteed to go down in one shot to anything which isn't choice'd?

The worst type with no immunities seems to be Grass + Ice + Fighting + Psychic + Bug, which has 5 resistances but 8x Fire, 8x Flying and 6 other weaknesses.

Currently the formula I'm using doesn't account for specific types (which are most important to have resistances/dangerous to have weaknesses to? I know Rock is a terrible type to be weak to but beyond that...). I think I also overvalue not having huge weaknesses and undervalue immunities. The formula basically checks each type and adds points to a pokemon's vulnerability like so:
+20 for >=8x damage
+8 for >= 4x damage (note this also includes the above - so an 8x or more weakness adds a total of 36 points to a pokemon's 'vulnerability')
+4 for >= 2x damage
+1 for >= 1x damage
+1 for >= 0.5x damage
+2 for > 0x damage

What tweaks could I make to get a better grasp on the 'best' types?

[eHalcyon]

I'd be interested in the best and worst typings when you limit it to dual types, and again if you limit it to triple types.  The latter would be really interesting to consider due to Trick-or-Treat and Forest's Curse (i.e. focus especially on triple types with Ghost or with Grass), but other triple types might come into play in the future.  Anything beyond that is unlikely, at least for now.

[qmech]

What tweaks could I make to get a better grasp on the 'best' types?

One approach is to consider how much damage you would take from a random attack.  So you could hit each multitype with an attack that deals 25% damage before applying weakness and resistance, and sum the damage over the possible attacking types.  The intention here is that damage for each attack is capped at 100%, so that 4x weakness is as bad as it gets.

Inverting the damage counts (so that you're counting how many turns is takes to KO) has some appeal, but then you have to do something about immunities, as they're not infinitely good.

As well as Stealth Rock, some other things that currently give types a different value from what this sort of analysis might indicate are:

Spikes
The stat distributions of existing Pokemon
The existing defensive typings (which influences the types of attack that you see)
The powers and availability of moves of various type
Abilities
Immunity to various types of Status effect

[Tables]

What tweaks could I make to get a better grasp on the 'best' types?

One approach is to consider how much damage you would take from a random attack.  So you could hit each multitype with an attack that deals 25% damage before applying weakness and resistance, and sum the damage over the possible attacking types.  The intention here is that damage for each attack is capped at 100%, so that 4x weakness is as bad as it gets.

Inverting the damage counts (so that you're counting how many turns is takes to KO) has some appeal, but then you have to do something about immunities, as they're not infinitely good.

As well as Stealth Rock, some other things that currently give types a different value from what this sort of analysis might indicate are:

Spikes
The stat distributions of existing Pokemon
The existing defensive typings (which influences the types of attack that you see)
The powers and availability of moves of various type
Abilities
Immunity to various types of Status effect

I kind of like the first approach, but I think it's worth noting that immunity is much better than just really resisting something - being unaffected by all status moves of a type, as well as blocking damage + effect type moves, is a bigger difference than going from taking 6% damage to 0% damage from an attack. So I'd probably want to adjust for that.

The second set of points is something I'd really like to do, but I don't know enough about the metagame and such to know which types really matter the most.

[Tables]

I've made some adjustments to the formula. It now does the following for each type:

6 pts if damage taken < 0.5, but not immune
7 pts if damage taken = 0.5
9 pts if damage taken = 1
11 pts if damage taken = 2
13 pts if damage taken = 4
15 pts if damage taken >= 8

It then adds on the following modifiers:

0/12/18 points if 0/1/2+ types deal at least neutral damage
0/12/18 points if 0/1/2+ types deal at least 2x damage
0/12/18 points if 0/1/2+ types deal at least 4x damage
8 points if not immune to ground (spikes)
8*(damage taken from rock type) (Stealth Rock)

So here's the ideas behind this one: Firstly there's some base numbers for each type. Immunities are really good, Big weaknesses aren't quite so insanely punishing for the type now. However, having at least 1-2 weaknesses is kind of a thing since that means you CAN be taken down quickly, so types are penalised extra for the first few weaknesses (also neutral and double weaknessses) they have, which encourages types with no weaknesses at all to float upwards. Finally, there's an adjustment based on vulnerability to Spikes and Rocks. I'd like to weight towards every type individually, but those are the big ones at least.

The top three types here all share: Normal + Water + Electric + Fighting + Poison + Ground + Flying + Ghost + Dark + Steel + Fairy. Then there's:
93: Fire + Dragon
94: Fire + Psychic + Dragon
94: No extra types

Each of these has all the immunities (8 of them), takes neutral damage from 3-4 types and at least half damage from 5-6.

I'd be interested in the best and worst typings when you limit it to dual types, and again if you limit it to triple types.  The latter would be really interesting to consider due to Trick-or-Treat and Forest's Curse (i.e. focus especially on triple types with Ghost or with Grass), but other triple types might come into play in the future.  Anything beyond that is unlikely, at least for now.

Double types I did a while ago. Steel/Fairy, Flying/Steel and Normal/Ghost top the list, while Ice/Rock, Grass/Ice and Grass/Psychic are at the bottom -using my old formula. Adjust this formula to be like the new one...

Ghost/Steel tops the list at 172, followed by Flying/Steel (174), Steel/Fairy (177), Normal/Ghost (179), Ghost/Dark (181) and Ground/Steel (181). At the bottom is Ice/Bug (262), Fire/Ice (251), Ice/Rock (248), Fire/Bug (245), Grass/Bug (244) and Grass/Ice (242). Ice/Bug isn't a type I'd seen near the bottom before... I suppose it fell down because it hits that two double weakness threshold, one of which is that crippling Rock weakness.

I'll consider how I can do triple types soon. Shouldn't be too hard to adjust.

Oh and the worst multi-types, just for the curious... well, you can probably guess what they all share (hint: It's something which I should have limited in my formula but didn't). I'll adjust that one soon as well.

[Tables]

Okay so triple types, including only Grass or Ghost + two others:

Best are: Flying/Steel/Ghost (156), Steel/Fairy/Ghost (159), Normal/Steel/Ghost (161), Dark/Steel/Ghost (164), Ground/Steel/Ghost (166), Fighting/Steel/Ghost (170), Normal/Fairy/Ghost (171) and Dragon/Steel/Ghost (171). Normal/Dark/Ghost (172) also manages to tie with the old winner Ghost/Steel.

When you think about it, those are pretty unsurprising. Ghost gives immunity to Fighting, one of Steel's three weaknesses, and Steel is already a pretty strong type defensively. On top of that a lot of the combinations here are just top combinations from before but with added Ghost type, which gives two immunities.

At the bottom, Ice/Bug/Grass (266) is the only type worse than just Ice/Bug (262) was. An 8 times Fire weakness does it no favours. Asides from that there's also at the bottom, Fire/Ice/Grass (253), Ice/Psychic/Grass (250), Ice/Flying/Grass (250), Ice/Rock/Grass (250) and Fire/Bug/Grass (249).

Oh, and as an aside: Ice/Bug/Ghost manages to climb the ranks to a lofty 244, while Steel/Fairy/Grass drops the otherwise 'best' typing down to 184 (although Steel/Fairy/Grass beats it by a point at 183).

On the unlimited types sheet, it looks like the worst type combinations are:
Fire + Grass + Fighting + Bug and then also:
296: Psychic + Dragon
295: Psychic
294: Dragon

All of these type combinations give 8x Rock weakness meaning Stealth Rocks = OHKO, as well as a 4x Flying (and in the no Dragon case, 4x Fire) weakness. A total lack of immunities and variety of other weaknesses also helps push those types down.

Of course, in reality those types have the advantages of being immune to burn and spore moves, as well as 5-6 STABs and a decent number of resistances. So they might be good offensively. If they can switch into battle, that is.

[eHalcyon]

Just realized that I never actually transferred things from Gen V Global Link onto my games.  I don't have anybody tucked in so I can't transfer them back now.  I never really did much with GL other than the events, so I'm not sure how much I've lost.  I've definitely lost out on an event Arceus though... blah.  Stupid me.

[Tables]

I've never been able to connect to the internet on my DS, or my 3DS using DS settings - I've only once come across a router which was compatible with DS settings, and I've been with both multiple ISPs and in various public locations. It's really sad how limited the original DS seems to be in that way.

Hopefully this won't stop me transferring pokemon from Black to X... but I'll have to see.

[eHalcyon]

I've never been able to connect to the internet on my DS, or my 3DS using DS settings - I've only once come across a router which was compatible with DS settings, and I've been with both multiple ISPs and in various public locations. It's really sad how limited the original DS seems to be in that way.

Hopefully this won't stop me transferring pokemon from Black to X... but I'll have to see.

I do still have a DS Lite, but it's very finnicky about connecting to the internet nowadays.  Moreover, my home internet is no longer WEP, which is all the DS Lite can use.  It would be a lot of trouble to change it to WEP and then back again afterwards.  OK, maybe not that much trouble, but it's still a bit annoying.  At some point I'll have to organize all my old games and then just do it once, I guess.

Still sad about that Arceus.

[eHalcyon]

So my national pokedex is complete except for pretty much every legendary... bleh.  Don't know how I'm going to get those.  Trying to get just one pokebank legendary so I can start cycling it for the rest, but not really sure what I can offer for it.  Tried a 4IV Scyther with Metal Coat for a bit.  Tried a Porygon with Upgrade.  Currently trying an Yveltal with Kee Berry.

Yesterday I saw a Suicune on the GTS asking for a Heatmor, of all things.  By the time I found it in my boxes though, it was already traded.

[eHalcyon]

Anyone still playing this?

I have fully completed my pokedex (minus the unreleased event legendaries) thanks to a friend.  Haven't downloaded Pokebank yet, though it's out... probably won't really transfer anything at this point.

I got all 5 trophies in the Battle Maison, with Super Multi being ridiculously tough and requiring multiple tries.  Currently trying to get a 200 streak so I can get that last berry... best I've done so far is 181 in Super Doubles.  I could have won it too, but I made a really stupid mistake.  I had my Dragonite vs. Krookodile remaining, both very low HP.  Could have finished it with Extreme Speed... but I thought, "hey, Dragon Claw will give me more power, which maybe I'll need because I'm at -1 due to Intimidate".  Except I already knew that Krookodile was faster than me.  So, really terrible mistake on my part.

[Tables]

I'm gonna continue playing at some point soon and try and fill out my pokedex, I think.

[eHalcyon]

Alpha Sapphire and Omega Ruby confirmed. It's happening, people.

[Watno]

Maybe they'll start doing Hebrew letters at some point?