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[eHalcyon]

FWIW, the game demo showed that you can mega evolve and attack on the same turn.

Sure, but that still means a slow Pokémon takes a hit before its stats get boosted.

I never liked using legendary pokemon because it felt cheap, but there are legendaries who get placed in UU tier too. Saying "legendary" doesn't actually say much.

That's an artifact of the bizarre way that Smogonites play Pokémon.

Maybe bizarre is too extreme, but it's certainly not how GameFreak thinks the game is meant to be played. It seems natural, though, right? Six Pokémon fit on an in-game team and Single Battles are the de facto standard format, so 6v6 Single Battles should be the normal way to play, right? And yet, you'll notice that every Battle Tower-esque format in the game uses 3v3 for Single Battles. All the console battling games do too. Huh.

When you have six Pokémon on your team, you have a very good chance of having a Pokémon to "counter" whatever your opponent brings out. Teams are built around this very idea of covering all your defensive bases. As a result, 6v6 Single Battles are crazy switch-fests. You and your opponent dance around each other, trying to whittle down the Pokémon or two that stand in the way of your sweeper, which you then bring in and clean house. In a 3v3 battle, you can't afford to do that. But in 6v6 battles, this tends to skew in favor of Pokémon that fulfill one specific role very well, leaving more well-rounded Pokémon in the dust. That's one of the two reasons that certain legendaries don't see play in OU.

Enter Stealth Rock. Because switching is so incredibly prevalent in 6v6 Singles, entry hazards are very powerful. Stealth Rock is the quickest to set up and also the strongest, and as a result almost every team has a Pokémon to set up Stealth Rock. Stealth Rock just destroys Pokémon that are weak to Rock-type attacks. This means that several entire types of Pokémon are rare or non-existent in OU. (It also reinforces the whole switch-to-a-counter game, since there are fewer bases to cover.) That's the other reason that certain legendaries aren't used in OU.

Entei is a perfect example. In a 3v3 environment, Entei is a beast. It his like a truck, can take a beating, and is a good bit faster than the average Pokémon. In Smogon and Serebii's 6v6 game, it can't even cut it in UU. It's a sick joke.

I forget how it worked in the demo so maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that the "mega evolution" would have highest priority, similar to using an item.

Interesting point on 3v3 vs 6v6.  I'd never considered that before.

FWIW, I've never actually participated in competitive battling though I have some interest in it at a semi-academic level.

[jsh357]

I read they're also adding a "Fairy" type, right? Anybody know how that will affect the balance? I stopped playing after Blue, so even Dark and Steel are exotic and unfamiliar to me.

It does look really cool though.

Faster to just link:
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Fairy_(type)

[Dsell]

I am pretty sure the fairy type was added largely for balance, and the minor changes to other types are there for the same reason.

I've been very interested in the academic side of competitive battling for years but only actually delved into it briefly.

[popsofctown]

I read they're also adding a "Fairy" type, right? Anybody know how that will affect the balance? I stopped playing after Blue, so even Dark and Steel are exotic and unfamiliar to me.

It does look really cool though.

Fairy beats Dragon, iirc.  If you remembered much about blue, Dragon didn't have as many weaknesses as it ought to.

[Titandrake]

well, in 1st gen it was a lot worse, because the only Dragon type offensive move was Dragon Rage.

Really 1st gen is just so horribly broken, both in terms of Pokemon balance and programming.

[XerxesPraelor]

I think 6v6 is perfectly fine. I mean, there's 50 pokemon in OU and as many in UU, so you have 100 potential team members, which is more than the number of fully-evolved pokemon in Gen1. Stealth Rock is really important, but it's not OP. It's not that hard to play around. I really wish Fairy type was Light-type instead. So much more flavorful.

[Tables]

Isn't Psychic type called Light in the Japanese version though? That'd cause unnecessary confusion I'd think.

I've never much been a fan of competitive pokemon battles, so I don't care too much about whether they balance things or not - what I care most about is that the single player game is fun and interesting, ideally with difficulty selection because, man, have pokemon games been easy up to now for an adult, which is a relatively large portion of their playerbase (actually I did find the first gym in Black to be pretty tough on my first playthrough, but things got much easier beyond that).

[LastFootnote]

I think 6v6 is perfectly fine. I mean, there's 50 pokemon in OU and as many in UU, so you have 100 potential team members, which is more than the number of fully-evolved pokemon in Gen1. Stealth Rock is really important, but it's not OP. It's not that hard to play around.

Sure, it's perfectly fine. Obviously lots of people like it or they wouldn't be playing it. It's just weird that it's the de facto standard way to play for English-speaking players. It's a really skewed game.

[dondon151]

Isn't Psychic type called Light in the Japanese version though? That'd cause unnecessary confusion I'd think.

No, Psychic in Japanese is the Esper type. Nothing at all to do with Light. That is all just a pernicious myth about complement-to-Dark-types-speculation.

I think Pokemon needs to have a mass extinction event. Maybe the games can address human-induced mass extinction via greenhouse gas emissions and deforestation! Or maybe that's too radical for what is ostensibly a children's game (still, never too young to learn...).

I really wish Fairy type was Light-type instead. So much more flavorful.

Again, you'd have to go into the definitions of the Japanese names for the types. Light type does not make sense from the Japanese perspective because the Dark type in Japanese is literally the "Evil" type. While in English there's a pretty strong association between evil with darkness, there's not as strong of an association between good and light (or at least, we're less likely to think of light in abstract terms of goodness).

[StrongRhino]

I play the TCG competitively and the XY rules leaked from Japan change the game like crazy.
The first player can't attack, making an already $100+ card even more expensive (though everything else about that is good), making a power card be on a flip, so it's more luck based, and a reprint of an old card with a new name.

[eHalcyon]

Isn't Psychic type called Light in the Japanese version though? That'd cause unnecessary confusion I'd think.

No, Psychic in Japanese is the Esper type. Nothing at all to do with Light. That is all just a pernicious myth about complement-to-Dark-types-speculation.

I think Pokemon needs to have a mass extinction event. Maybe the games can address human-induced mass extinction via greenhouse gas emissions and deforestation! Or maybe that's too radical for what is ostensibly a children's game (still, never too young to learn...).

I really wish Fairy type was Light-type instead. So much more flavorful.

Again, you'd have to go into the definitions of the Japanese names for the types. Light type does not make sense from the Japanese perspective because the Dark type in Japanese is literally the "Evil" type. While in English there's a pretty strong association between evil with darkness, there's not as strong of an association between good and light (or at least, we're less likely to think of light in abstract terms of goodness).

I recall reading that "fairy" doesn't have the same connotations in Japan as it does here.  That is, we think "fairy" and we think, "cute and feminine", but in Japanese it's more along the lines of "mythical" or "magical".  Something like that.  Not sure if it's true, or if I'm even remembering correctly.

[XerxesPraelor]

But look at sylveon. Though I don't find it to be so, it's obviously intending to be more cute and feminine than mythical. Look at the ribbons and the horrible all-encompassing pinkness. Espeon seems more magical, glaceon more mythical, and flareon cuter.

And 6v6 is a lot better than 3v3 because it leaves much less up to simply match-up, where a game is decided before it even starts. There's still a remnant of that in the 6v6 system, but it's definitely toned down to a tolerable point.

As you said "When you have six Pokémon on your team, you have a very good chance of having a Pokémon to "counter" whatever your opponent brings out. " and I think that makes the game come down to more than luck, which I think is a good thing. I can understand that entry hazards might overcome that good point for you, though. It's a hard choice.

[LastFootnote]

And 6v6 is a lot better than 3v3 because it leaves much less up to simply match-up, where a game is decided before it even starts. There's still a remnant of that in the 6v6 system, but it's definitely toned down to a tolerable point.

As you said "When you have six Pokémon on your team, you have a very good chance of having a Pokémon to "counter" whatever your opponent brings out. " and I think that makes the game come down to more than luck, which I think is a good thing. I can understand that entry hazards might overcome that good point for you, though. It's a hard choice.

The "comes down to luck" is a valid point, but the general fix to that is to do what the console battling games have always done. You and your opponent see the six Pokémon on each other's teams, then you each simultaneously choose three to battle with. It's a really good system. It seems like it could still just come down to luck of the draw, but it doesn't really play out that way in practice. The sideboard makes a huge difference.

[eHalcyon]

Xerneas is a fairy type though, and it doesn't seem cute or feminine to me.

Sylveon hits "magical".

[dondon151]

Xerneas is a fairy type though, and it doesn't seem cute or feminine to me.

Sylveon hits "magical".

I mean, you have to realize the marketing aspect here. Some Pokemon are designed to be kawaii~, others derpy, and others badass.

[WalrusMcFishSr]

Xerneas is a fairy type though, and it doesn't seem cute or feminine to me.

Sylveon hits "magical".

I mean, you have to realize the marketing aspect here. Some Pokemon are designed to be kawaii~, others derpy, and others badass.

And some are designed to look like ice cream cones.

[eHalcyon]

Xerneas is a fairy type though, and it doesn't seem cute or feminine to me.

Sylveon hits "magical".

I mean, you have to realize the marketing aspect here. Some Pokemon are designed to be kawaii~, others derpy, and others badass.

Oh, I know.  I'm still wondering if what I read was correct though, re: connotations of "fairy" in Japan.

[eHalcyon]

Anyone following the leaks?

At first I was somewhat disappointed in the designs of all 3 final starter evos (and likewise for many of the new pokemon) but I'm thinking that the photos might not do justice to the designs.  In particular, the 3D doesn't look like it translates well to photos.

I'm also a bit sad that apparently only Charizard has two mega evos, out of the Kanto starters.  I guess it's the fan favourite though.

The evolution for Bunnelby is hilarious.

I am extremely intrigued by the nondescript Rock/Fairy and I hope it ends up as an epic Gen VI pseudo-legendary.

Edit: but it looks like that one is a single stager... now highly intrigued by the steel/fairy keys pokemon.  Also this dragon slug guy!

[XerxesPraelor]

I don't think the pictures have been confirmed, especially since when I searched I saw multiple sets. And what rock/fairy are you talking about?

[eHalcyon]

I don't think the pictures have been confirmed, especially since when I searched I saw multiple sets. And what rock/fairy are you talking about?

Here is an image.

[Dsell]

I don't think the pictures have been confirmed, especially since when I searched I saw multiple sets. And what rock/fairy are you talking about?

Here is an image.

So...torn...after seeing the final starter evos (not a big fan ) I told myself I wouldn't look at any more spoilers. I've been looking forward to this being the first game since like gen 2 that I could go through the game and discover pokemon I've never seen...but I want to know....

[Dsell]

(Sorry about the double post)
Are people planning on getting X or Y? After the game comes out, we should swap friend info!

I tend to get the "secondary" game in the set (aka Silver, Sapphire, Leaf Green, White, White 2) so I've been planning on getting Y, but my mind isn't completely made up yet. I like Xerneas a bit better than Yveltal, but I think I like Mega Mewtwo Y (and maybe Charizard Y, though I probably won't pick Charmander) better, so it's a bit of a tough call.

I really, really, really hope that they have dual megaevolutions for all 3 Kanto starters rather than just Charizard. That would just be frustrating and stupid.

[eHalcyon]

How much do you want to be spoiled then?

I've already pre-ordered X.  I like the concept for Xerneas so much more than I do for Yveltal (Life vs. Death).  Yveltal is cool though.  I don't have much of a set pattern for the series.

I had Red to start, and I don't remember a particular reason for that.  My sister got Blue.
We both got Yellow, I think.
I got Gold, she got Silver.  I picked Gold because she preferred Silver.
Skipped the third gen, but I got Emerald after gen IV came out (I think I made it to Victory Road and then got lazy and stopped).
I got Pearl, sister got Diamond.  Again, her choice.
I got Soul Silver because I had Gold before.
Black, sister got White.
Black 2, because I had Black.

I guess my pattern is "the one my sister doesn't prefer."  I don't think she has plans for gen VI though; I don't think she even finished White.

As far as starters go, I think they are all alright.  Chespin was my favourite first stage and I'm still a little torn on his last stage.  It's growing on me.  But there is another leaked grass type that I really like and I want to see what it evolves into.

From the leaks, it seems like there aren't that many brand new pokemon until somewhat late in the game.  If you haven't played since Gen II, are you familiar with pokemon since then?

On dual mega evolutions: It's pretty much confirmed that Charizard is the only Kanto to get two.  There are X and Y versions of Charizard's stone, but the others are not labelled that way.

The grass type I'm interested in is a Grass/Ghost pumpkin-bat that probably has an evolution.
I'm also intrigued by the Steel/Fairy Klefki, a keyring pokemon that presumably steals keys.  I think it is adorable.
One of the newer leaks is a dragon type named Goomy that evolves at least once (into Sliggoo) and quite possibly twice.  Lots of speculation that it is this generation's pseudo-legendary, and although it learns many water type moves and has Hydration, there are also many hoping that it becomes the first Dragon/Poison type.  Image here.
Finally, there is a bizarre Water/Rock type named Barbaracle.  It is so weird that I go from hating it back to loving it.

[Dsell]

From the leaks, it seems like there aren't that many brand new pokemon until somewhat late in the game.  If you haven't played since Gen II, are you familiar with pokemon since then?

Ooh yeah. My point is that all of the other games came out in Japan first, so I had spoilers well ahead of time. Since this game is released simultaneously in the US and Japan, there aren't complete, official spoilers ahead of time. We're getting leaks now, but it's a short enough amount of time that I can hold off until the game's released. And I think it's worth it to me to create some sense of awe in my initial playthrough.

That said, I read your spoilers. I was looking through leaks last night (as a last hurrah) and saw Klefki (love it) and Barbaracle (SO ugly, and man I am really not picky when it comes to pokemon...) and the starters' final evos. Goomy and the pumpkin-bat sound highly intriguing! So does the Rock/Fairy you mentioned last night.

[jsh357]

If you want leaks, there is a ton of info here from a guy who's been sharing details over on /vp/:
http://imgur.com/a/jiahd
http://imgur.com/a/7aohL