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[raerae]

Vote: Cuzz

Shraeye's argument is good, cuzz hasn't contributed because he's been too busy defending himself, and still refuses to tell us why jimmmmm is so town.  I'm sold.

Survivalissssm. Note to self: raerae had a chance to persuade me with ate here, but failed to do so.

Wait, persuade you?  Tell me what you want to know and I'll address it but I already announced intent to vote cuzz a few posts back.  Well before you and ash decided to form a wagon on me for...I'm sorry, what was the reason?

Well, I meant I got to take a read from your response to getting two votes in a rapid fashion. I'm not saying you couldnt react like that as town, but sometimes people react in a way that's very very likely to be a townie reaction and this wasn't one of those times.

Did you want me to fly off the handle like I did when ash called me going to dinner a scumtell?  That was embarrassing and I won't repeat it.  Plus, neither of you has presented a case on me (at least not recently) so I have nothing to respond to other than your votes.

Ok, I'll play.  Why, oh why are you voting for me?  What have I ever done to deserve such a thing?  *sobs violently in corner*

Seriously, give me something to respond to and I'd be more than happy to but right now you two voting for me looks like deflection from the cuzz lynch and nothing more.

[Eevee]

Well istrue I'm deflecting, Cuzz seems towny to me I don't want him lynched.
I can't word a case for you, it's process of elimination, gut and feel based reads. I'm not good at finding scummy behavior. I have a group of people I don't want to lynch for various reasons, you haven't gotten to that group so I'm fine with lynching you.

[yuma]

as such I would like all of Eevee, Cuzz, Jimmm and Glooble to discuss their individual wagons and tell us who out of the who voted for them are the most likely to be town and the most likely to be scum.

I think only Cuzz answered this question, which I do find to be relevant still.

[TheMunch]

Cuzz is good.  I'm fine with Eevee's refusal to participate.  That is good information and it is on record.  I think everyones talking alot and saying relatively nothing.

Ashersky is chock full of readception (and recently has been posting and phrasing arguments in a way that actually might have me convinced his scum and not just really wrong).

Eevee's vote on RaeRae is incredibly strange to me; maybe its just that hes following provocation from Ashersky (I know, readception of my own if that is actually the case but at least I'm trying to be honest with myself and its the reason I'm not voting for Eevee; I think my unease is more that you could replace Ashersky with anyone that is has a scum read on someone that few people share that says: Hey lets vote X and Eevee goes sure, especially when Eevee expressed other reads which he expanded to include Raerae after the vote?).

Cuzz's responses aren't really convincing the people that think that he is scum that he is not scum and is doing so in a very wordsy fashion.

Everyone else that is posting cases.  Sure, thats fine but I think all I'm really going to take away from all that is who is making what case on who, not necessarily how strong those cases are.  I dont think anything new is really being said from what I skim.  Its just people finding the response to their cases just as scummy as their original cases, which is just arguably understandable confirmation biased.

So Ashersky moved his vote and Raerae is on board, Cuzz is back at L-2.  I'm gonna ask of the people not recently involved with the cuzz wagon (momsalon, yuma, dsell, jim, theorel, robz) to just state (even if they did say it and I missed it, I'm sorry), which category you fall into:
1) You have similar-to-eevee staunch opposition to the Cuzz lynch
2) You are only not voting for Cuzz because you have a stronger scum read elsewhere
3) You are willing to vote Cuzz.

[TheMunch]

Well istrue I'm deflecting, Cuzz seems towny to me I don't want him lynched.
I can't word a case for you, it's process of elimination, gut and feel based reads. I'm not good at finding scummy behavior. I have a group of people I don't want to lynch for various reasons, you haven't gotten to that group so I'm fine with lynching you.

How could you possibly have a POE argument on Raerae...

[shraeye]

vote: no lynch

I read someone's thread on parity, but it didn't mention multiple scum teams.

We're clearly not getting a consensus on anyone going

What are you talking about, with the "we're not getting a consensus on anyone"??  Cuzz is at L-2, and if you kept your vote on him, that would be L-1 now.  That sounds like very heavy consensus to me. 

I know there are detractors, but if we slow down every single wagon because of detractors, we'll create a situation like Casino that went on forever until I purposely fell on the sword just to end the day.

You waited all of 3.5 hours between voting for Cuzz and declaring that we weren't getting consensus?  I suppose between your vote and unvote we had Cuzz, theorel and Eevee expressing disinterest in the Cuzz case.  But that's nowhere near the "I guess this is going nowhere" stage.

[TheMunch]

Question retracted.  I guess you are referring to the second half where you say you dont want to lynch this subset so you'll lynch the other.  This does still seem rather convenient.

[TheMunch]

*Rhetorical question of Eevee retracted

[liopoil]

FoS ash for voting nolynch. I think that not lynching D1 is a bad idea for town in this setup, hence a good idea for scum. Now in response to cuzz's response to the deflection: yes, none of us want to be lynched. however, since there are fewer scum than town, bieng lynched as scum is worse for scum than bieng lynched as town. Also as town attention isn't too bad. if people are reading well they will realize that you are town, this is not the case for scum. therefore scum is more likely to resort to deflection than town. Theorel: you are right that a few of shraeyes points are weak. some are strong though. strong enough that I think cuzz has the strongest case against him than anyone else. Cuzz: don't self-vote. regardless of your allignment I can't see how it can possibly help your faction. oh wait, I want to lynch you.... so go ahead, self-vote.

[yuma]

Anybody up for a post count?  I'd say do it and lynch the biggest undercontributor.  My best guess is Dsell, looking at the list.

That, or we choose one of {shraeye, cuzz, eevee, Jimmmmm} and go for it.

1. ashersky - 113
2. Robz - 114
3. yuma - 47
4. Eevee - 93
5. Shraeye - 57
6. Cuzz - 84
7. Glooble - 30
8. Raerae - 55
9. liopoil - 27
10. mcmcsalot - 36 
11. Jimmmmm - 91
12. theorel - 21
13. TheMunch - 53 (not including sparky's posts)
14. Dsell - 28
15. Galzria - 61

since noone seemed to follow up on this, thought I would. But I don't think there is much to gleam from it. Dsell probably isn't going to get lynched... theo as well, lio is new (not a reason to lynch someone, but still isn't really on my radar to lynch anyways...), I still have my vote on Glooble and am surprised how quickly that wagon disappeared... mcmc could be a possible lynch...

[Eevee]

munch, it's just how I play this game and take my reads. I've found this is the best way for me to find scum -  try find town and vote for people who don't fit that bill. I'm just unable to make scum reads any other way.

[raerae]

FoS ash for voting nolynch. I think that not lynching D1 is a bad idea for town in this setup, hence a good idea for scum. Now in response to cuzz's response to the deflection: yes, none of us want to be lynched. however, since there are fewer scum than town, bieng lynched as scum is worse for scum than bieng lynched as town. Also as town attention isn't too bad. if people are reading well they will realize that you are town, this is not the case for scum. therefore scum is more likely to resort to deflection than town. Theorel: you are right that a few of shraeyes points are weak. some are strong though. strong enough that I think cuzz has the strongest case against him than anyone else. Cuzz: don't self-vote. regardless of your allignment I can't see how it can possibly help your faction. oh wait, I want to lynch you.... so go ahead, self-vote.

Did you vote?  Did I miss it?  Are you planning on voting?  So many pages of stuff...

[Cuzz]

Cuzz's responses aren't really convincing the people that think that he is scum that he is not scum and is doing so in a very wordsy fashion.

I feel that I have responded in detail to every damn accusation made of me. Theorel and Jimmmmm have also written lengthy responses to each of shraeye's large cases on me. If you cannot point to a specific accusation that you feel I've failed to address, or to a response of mine that you disagree with, then kindly pipe down about me being "unconvincing."

[TheMunch]

Cuzz, I dont think I ever questioned whether or not you were thorough in your responses.  Key word: you aren't CONVINCING people.

[shraeye]

Guys, this game is at 38 pages.

I don't want a mega day1.  With ashersky's vote on Cuzz (I'm assuming that he thinks cuzz is at least slightly scummy if he was willing to put him to L-2 earlier tonight) he would be at L-1.  Liopoil wants to lynch cuzz as well.


Just vote Cuzz, end day 1 now.  Y'all can blame my insistence if things go badly, but i'm confident Cuzz is scum.  I insist we end this day before we hit 40 pages.

[liopoil]

Seems to me that a lot of eevee's read are based off vibes, feeling, and gut, not real evidence. I don't think he's said much about why he thinks raerae is scummy, cuzz is towny, and I am scummy, among others.

[TheMunch]

Liopoil is voting Cuzz that is if he hasn't moved his vote since the vote count a few pages ago.

[Jimmmmm]

So Ashersky moved his vote and Raerae is on board, Cuzz is back at L-2.  I'm gonna ask of the people not recently involved with the cuzz wagon (momsalon, yuma, dsell, jim, theorel, robz) to just state (even if they did say it and I missed it, I'm sorry), which category you fall into:
1) You have similar-to-eevee staunch opposition to the Cuzz lynch
2) You are only not voting for Cuzz because you have a stronger scum read elsewhere
3) You are willing to vote Cuzz.

4) My mind is not made up on Cuzz. I've found myself agreeing with him a fair bit, but shraeye's case on him seems reasonable. I'll make my mind up on whether or not I'll get on board after I've had time to re-read him (I'm at work, just for something different).

[TheMunch]

Oh Liopoil is here.  Wheres your vote? (Mods: can we get another vote count?)

[raerae]

Liopoil is voting Cuzz that is if he hasn't moved his vote since the vote count a few pages ago.

Whoops, yeah, sorry.  I missed that one.

[yuma]

I like shraeye's case on Cuzz... in that I like how it is presented. I can get the jist of it from the headlines and have the opportunity to read further if I find the headline to be compelling or interesting.

As for the context of the case itself, I don't know. shraeye brings up some good points, but they are points that I have such a hard time with. Because all of it is based off interpretations.... and I guess that is the problem. Mafia is a game of interpretations... and I want something more solid! But we might not get anything more solid than this. But that doesn't stop me from wanting it and wanting to be hesitant about a case on someone!

PPE: I see now that Cuzz is getting close to a lynch? I don't think I am ready for this day to end. Has he even claimed?

[ashersky]

vote: cuzz  There you go.

[Cuzz]

Guys, this game is at 38 pages.

I don't want a mega day1.  With ashersky's vote on Cuzz (I'm assuming that he thinks cuzz is at least slightly scummy if he was willing to put him to L-2 earlier tonight) he would be at L-1.  Liopoil wants to lynch cuzz as well.


Just vote Cuzz, end day 1 now.  Y'all can blame my insistence if things go badly, but i'm confident Cuzz is scum.  I insist we end this day before we hit 40 pages.

Discard tunnel, acquire gold.

If you're town and you're really that confident then your reads suck. I've found you to be a pretty smart guy but I don't get why you think your case is so good. I'm not an objective party here, but theorel agreed and lots of people think he's town. Take the blinders off for a sec and read my response to your case and see how confident you still are.

[Cuzz]

Cuzz, I dont think I ever questioned whether or not you were thorough in your responses.  Key word: you aren't CONVINCING people.

It's easy to be unconvinced if you don't read what I spent a while writing.

[Cuzz]

Seems to me that a lot of eevee's read are based off vibes, feeling, and gut, not real evidence. I don't think he's said much about why he thinks raerae is scummy, cuzz is towny, and I am scummy, among others.

Eevee has played like 6 games with me and can read me really freaking well.