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Author Topic: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 7)  (Read 312041 times)

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Galzria

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #500 on: January 08, 2013, 03:22:01 am »

Robz, this is digging deep, but you used to REFUSE to rvs. You prided yourself on how seriously you cast your vote, and were often one of the last to do so. What's with the vote on me in post #7?

More specifically, you've cast your vote more than any other player so far. 4 of the 22 are from you. You voted for me, then Eevee, then Cuzz and finally Eevee. Why the drastic change in your normal playstyle?

(I recognize you're not AS tight with your vote as you used to be, but this is still awfully loose, especially for you).
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #501 on: January 08, 2013, 03:26:01 am »

Eevee and Shraeye:

I was completely fooled by mcmc in the last blitz game, but you two had more of an inside look. I don't trust myself to read him well here, so while I've found him slightly scummy, I couldn't put my finger on it, and even if I could I would be unsure. I would like each of you to give your reads on him, or at least express if you believe he's acting much the same as in blitz, or differently.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #502 on: January 08, 2013, 03:28:14 am »

And I'm done. I'm sure there's more I could ask, but I've been online for 16 hours now and I'm utterly drained. I need to get some sleep before work tomorrow.

If I don't log on in the morning, or am unavailable throughout the day - do yourselves a favor and don't lynch Eevee. He's town.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Jimmmmm

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #503 on: January 08, 2013, 03:41:23 am »

Ashersky and Jimmm - You two both voted Eevee earlier. There's now a wagon on him without your votes. How do you feel regarding Eevee now? More scummy? Less? If each of you accepts yourself to be town, then who out of the 5 other people to have voted Eevee - or Eevee himself - do you think is most likely scum?

I have a deliberate nullread on Eevee. When I have time (still at work) I will do a full re-read on him and see what I come up with.
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #504 on: January 08, 2013, 03:41:34 am »

Robz, I've laid out on multiple occasions detailed analysis of exactly the points that I believe indicate Eevee is town. Yet you continue to persecute him. You've known and played with Eevee as long as I have. What do you think makes my read wrong, and yours right?

I'm not persecuting him. Believe me, I would much rather have him be town. But I can't ignore the fact that I don't believe he actually doesn't know the contents of his role PM, that the Dsell incident makes him slightly more likely to be scum, that his immediate behavior did not scream town as it usually does, and that very recently he made an abrupt shift to his typical town persona after giving an extremely accurate description of exactly what that persona is.

I also find it weird that two players--one of whom had previously suspected him--declared that they would not vote for him. It's weird, and none of the three of them come out looking good. I'd pretty sure some scum, somewhere, is trying to kill the Eevee lynch, possibly to gain his favor.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Robz888

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #505 on: January 08, 2013, 03:44:42 am »

Robz, this is digging deep, but you used to REFUSE to rvs. You prided yourself on how seriously you cast your vote, and were often one of the last to do so. What's with the vote on me in post #7?

More specifically, you've cast your vote more than any other player so far. 4 of the 22 are from you. You voted for me, then Eevee, then Cuzz and finally Eevee. Why the drastic change in your normal playstyle?

(I recognize you're not AS tight with your vote as you used to be, but this is still awfully loose, especially for you).

I vote really loosely these days. Think of M-XII, M-XIV, and M-XVI. I think cautiously voting is overrated.

The RVS vote wasn't entirely RVS. I do think smileys are scummy. I certainly didn't extend RVS though, so I think it's still pretty in keeping with my MO.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Jimmmmm

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #506 on: January 08, 2013, 03:47:51 am »

I also find it weird that two players--one of whom had previously suspected him--declared that they would not vote for him.

Not everything's so black and white Robz. Do you even understand why I said I porbably wouldn't vote for him today?
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #507 on: January 08, 2013, 03:49:17 am »

I also find it weird that two players--one of whom had previously suspected him--declared that they would not vote for him.

Not everything's so black and white Robz. Do you even understand why I said I porbably wouldn't vote for him today?

It looked to me like you said it because you received a ton of blowback, and were trying to gracefully bow out of the whole Eevee wagon ordeal.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Robz888

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #508 on: January 08, 2013, 03:50:29 am »

I also find it weird that two players--one of whom had previously suspected him--declared that they would not vote for him.

Not everything's so black and white Robz. Do you even understand why I said I porbably wouldn't vote for him today?

It looked to me like you said it because you received a ton of blowback, and were trying to gracefully bow out of the whole Eevee wagon ordeal.

Do you not see that that's what it looked like? That's what it looked like to me. Like you were in hot water over the case, and you decided to bail, and you went too far in trying to bail, because you were apparently not sincere in the first place. That's one way to read it; it's the most immediate way that I read it. I understand it's not the only way to read it.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #509 on: January 08, 2013, 03:53:40 am »

It was an overreaction to feeling a bit frustrated and demoralised that what I thought was a really strong case turned out not to be so good because I had misunderstood the intent behind something that was said. Like I said, I didn't want to think about it any more. I also felt like I needed to stop focussing on Eevee and look at other people.
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ashersky

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #510 on: January 08, 2013, 06:23:59 am »

Ashersky and Jimmm - You two both voted Eevee earlier. There's now a wagon on him without your votes. How do you feel regarding Eevee now? More scummy? Less? If each of you accepts yourself to be town, then who out of the 5 other people to have voted Eevee - or Eevee himself - do you think is most likely scum?

Townier, but not obv!town.  Most likely town voting for Eevee is Cuzz.
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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #511 on: January 08, 2013, 06:41:01 am »

I'm not caught up with the four new pages since I went to bed. Just wanted to give a heads up I won't be able to catch up until at least 4.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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theorel

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #512 on: January 08, 2013, 07:49:25 am »

Theorel - you went from voting Sparky/TheMunch, to following him into voting Eevee. Please explain in more detail your current thoughts on each.
I voted Sparky because he hadn't posted.  I left it there after his post because it seemed like too little (especially the comment he would be following followed by nothing).  Then he replaced out to Munch.   I have a null-read on Munch...which means I would lean slightly scummy on Sparky/Munch, since Sparky was slightly scummy before replacing out.

Before I go into Eevee I should state something else.
I strongly believe that there are mutliple scum teams in this game, or at the very least that if there is a single scum-team they believe there is another scum team.  I believe that this is why this game feels weird.  I think it was Galzria that stated people are posting more than usual.  I think this is the effect of the scum trying to scum-hunt.  I think that scum are NOT sitting back as much as usual, and I think this is the effect that others are noting.  This is a major reason that I disagree with your town-read on Eevee and find my scum-read more compelling.

My view on Eevee:
1. Eevee does not seem like town-Eevee.  He's described his town-meta well.  He admitted earlier that he wasn't really playing like his town self, and claimed that he's trying to be a better town player (meaning he was trying to scum hunt better).  I believe he is trying to more actively scum hunt.  I will readily admit that this may be due to an active change in Eevee's play.  I don't think that he should be lynched immediately, and if he suddenly picked up another two votes I would probably unvote.  I'm content with him sitting at 4 votes though.

2. Eevee does not seem like scum-Eevee.  I'm honestly willing to believe you here  (I'm pretty sure I've never seen scum-Eevee in a game, so I don't really have that judgment).  That said, the description you're assigning to scum-Eevee actually seems a lot like MXVII Eevee, which is probably why you were willing to almost-lynch him there...only he was town there.

I think Eevee seems over-eager to find scum, which to me is a multi-ball scum trait.  Scum want to be on scum lynches that don't involve their own team.  It's like bussing without the negative repercussions on your own team.  Additionally, they want to leverage the fact that they don't have full knowledge of the set-up.

All that said, my primary purpose in voting for Eevee (as with any day1 vote) is to see what develops out of it.  That's why I joined a wagon with other votes on it rather than voting for someone new.  I primarily use my day1 vote to try to help create what appear to be viable lynches, and in doing so catch out survivalist tells.  I've stated approximately as much in every game I've played as town, which is to say that I don't just stick my vote on my biggest scum-read and be done with it.  Of course, now that I've stated this scum might be unwilling to join the Eevee-wagon because I'm trying to bait them into it.  But then that might mean that scum ends up unwilling to join wagons.  Which means that they're doing a poor job of trying to survive, because if they don't join wagons then they're leaving it completely up to town who to lynch.  It will be easier for a bunch of townies to coalesce about a scum-lynch than for town to do so through scum direction, and hence they're more likely to be lynched because they're trying to avoid the bait.  The thing about survivalist tells, is that they come from trying to survive better.  If scum stops trying to survive, then I think that's essentially mission accomplished.

Random other theory-thing.  Raerae stated that she thought scum would want the day to go longer so that they could "sow more confusion".  This is utterly wrong.  Scum want the day to end as soon as possible.  The longer the day goes on the more likely they'll slip up somehow and the more likely they'll get lynched.  Shorter days give town less information and less chance to scum-hunt.  There is a limit to how long a day can be beneficial, at some point town needs concrete information to move forward (this is one reason that nolynch day1's are really bad).  But to think that scum can use longer days to sow more confusion is just silly.  It's like saying scum want to use night-kills to sow confusion.  No, sometimes they just want to use Night-kills to eliminate threats. 

If every day resulted in a single-wagon leading to a lynch I think that would be the greatest benefit to scum.  The chances of that single wagon being one of them is relatively low.  They'll limit the amount of false interactions they need to make up.  This is a big part of the reason why scum tends to lurk (because they're faking interactions), and a big part of the reason that multi-ball changes it (they don't need to fake it except in the case of their partner).  This means that longer days are almost exclusively to the benefit of town...because we'll build up more wagons giving scum more chances to be forced into faking their interactions with their partners, and giving us more chances to catch them faking it.  I know that my biggest concern in MVI was not whether I was right or wrong on Insomniac (because I knew it was a valid read, whether he was scum or town).  My biggest concern was that I'd get called out for my clumsy interactions with Robz.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #513 on: January 08, 2013, 10:21:20 am »

Went to bed at 11, woke up at 9 to 4 pages!
unvote this is because of two reason, the second being knowingly terrible, 1) ash's recent posts have read towny to me and 2) my scum read on him is from posts pages and pages ago, they have been lost in so many other things I couldn't make a case on him if I was asked to.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #514 on: January 08, 2013, 10:27:33 am »

ash's recent posts have read towny to me

See, this is what I'm talking about. Saying "X read Y to me" just seems to be coming all too naturally for someone who has never had to make Town/scum reads before. I get the impression that you are offering token reads to make sure that you have some sort of an opinion, similar to what you were doing in ZMIX. Having said that, your second point is more what I would expect.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #515 on: January 08, 2013, 10:55:56 am »

Finally re-read Eevee, as promised. A few points:

The impression that I get is that he's been quite tentative, even to the point of putting himself down. Is this normal Eevee? I'm not too sure.

Feels almost embarrassing to post this, but oh well.

I don't think that warrants HIGH suspicion, but the logic it obviously sound. I would be my biggest scum read as well because of this.

The whole thing is just me being a careless townie and wording stuff badly.

Townread on yuma for articulating my defense better than I ever could have.

fwiw you pushing me like this is very good scumhunting.

The one about being his own biggest scum read seems a little fake to me.

I'm also unconvinced by his defense to the contradiction case:

Jimmm's contradiction case has the makings of a classic day 1 mislynch. Why would I have to lie/contradict myself there if I was scum? I just realized I probably wouldn't have answered the question either way after hitting send, and posted that. Why would I possibly be intentionally dishonest there?

Regardless of how good we all think the case was, this seems like he is diverting attention away from the main point of the case by being vague. Why he would theoretically do something is not nearly as helpful as specifically why he did what he did. Something along the lines of "Oh no you misunderstood, I didn't mean what you thought I meant" would be much more helpful, I think.

I also really don't like his stance on Cuzz. He doesn't really give much of a case, and it kind of seems like he's trying too hard to do the "Town" thing (he's mentioned that sort of thing elsewhere as well I think), by putting a vote down because yuma said to. I think this is kind of similar to how I feel about mom salon, in that I think providing an opinion for the sake of having an opinion can be scummy.

Eevee, you mentioned you like the mom salon case, but haven't really said much about him other than that. How do you feel about him now?
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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #516 on: January 08, 2013, 10:57:35 am »

Good questions, Galzria.

Eevee and Shraeye:

I was completely fooled by mcmc in the last blitz game, but you two had more of an inside look. I don't trust myself to read him well here, so while I've found him slightly scummy, I couldn't put my finger on it, and even if I could I would be unsure. I would like each of you to give your reads on him, or at least express if you believe he's acting much the same as in blitz, or differently.
I expressed big big townreads on mcmc in that game - for a reason. His play DID look towny to me - I would have been fooled too if I was town, for sure.

He hasn't seem scummy to me in this game. Is posting a lot, saying reasonable things and taking meaningful positions. Nothing feels off to me. But I don't consider myself an expert in reading him, dude is HARD to read.

@Cuzz
I felt you didn't fit the bill above - were not taking positions, but rather upping your post count on the "easy" disagreement with Jimm about his opinions about me. Your reactions to my suspicions feel towny to me, I will Unvote.
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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #517 on: January 08, 2013, 10:58:45 am »

Oh, in conclusion to my post on Eevee: I hate to say it, but I've got a slightish scum read again.
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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #518 on: January 08, 2013, 11:25:39 am »


I liked this post a lot.  10/10 would read again.
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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #519 on: January 08, 2013, 11:45:18 am »

The issue I have is more with Jimmmmm than with you, raerae, but your "I'm in your corner" remark is causing me to attribute Jimmmmm's statements about Eevee to you as well, and it's possible you didn't mean to imply that you agreed with Jimmmmm about the specific thing I take issue with.

Warning: trying to get caught up

I only meant to say that I'm not comfortable voting Eevee today.  I correctly pegged him as scum in Blitz and I don't get that same feeling from him today.  I correctly pegged him as town in Buffy too.  Somebody (maybe it was you?) asked why I wouldn't vote for somebody I had a null-read on and it's just because I find that silly.  If I have a slight scumread on somebody I'll vote for them over the person I have a null-read on every time.  I'm working on getting reads out there but this thread has been consistently blowing up so I'm having trouble first, keeping all 15 people straight is difficult and second, keeping up is really difficult.  I'll be caught up and have reads out today.
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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #520 on: January 08, 2013, 12:08:36 pm »

Stuff about Eevee, and people in relation to him
Well, Jimm has managed to completely destroy the towncred he had in my eyes. His total 180 on Eevee makes no sense to me.

I actually continue to find Eevee scum, based on some of the better of the earlier reasons (I still say him not knowing his PM was an exaggeration at least), and also, what Munch said about him. He does feel off. And look, I usually get huge townreads on Eevee, and I'm usually right about it. The last game, Eevee was scum, and I did not get an immediate huge townread on Eevee. So I am at least somewhat competent at reading Eevee, and you know what? I definitely see this Eevee as closer to scum!Eevee than town!Eevee.
...
So anyway, my scumread on Eevee remains relatively high, and Jimm has now joined that list. He also looks like he's scrambling to justify his Eevee opinions now. That's not a good sign.

Vote: Eevee again, I guess.
Robz, Robz.  This is the sort of read that old Robz loved to give, and I really don't think it's that accurate.  In this post you are suspecting Eevee for meta-reasons and suspecting Jimmmm for SFS-reasons (StraightForwardSystem, was it?).  When I read this, Jimmm is the case that resonates with me much much more.  I just think there are so many non-scum reasons for playing a bit differently than normal, that it never feels like a good case when people simply say "this person feels different".  Now if we talk about HOW they are playing differently, then that's a little more substance.  This argument that Eevee is more self-depricating than normal gives me slight pause, but I seem to recall times at which town-Eevee was self-depricating in his humorous way.

Still, in the end, I was really disappointed taht you ended this post by voting Eevee instead of Jimmm.


Eevee (4): TheMunch, Cuzz, theorel, Robz888

There has to be scum on this somewhere, or Eevee is scum.
I disagree entirely.  There's no reason there HAS to be scum on this, regardless of Eevee's alignment.  This game has 15 people; that's a lot of town votes.

Terrible? Terrible?? Come on man, the cases on Eevee aren't terrible. Maybe you don't buy them but they really aren't terrible. objectively, they aren't. Jimm's contradiction thing ended up being unsound, but there's a lot more to it. Ugh.
Jimmm's contradiction was was unsound, and for that reason bad, there wasn't much too it other than Jimmm reading meaning/intent into a sentence, when that meaning wasn't originally there.  The recent cases are better, but I still have a slight townread on Eevee.

Eevee's interaction with me earlier surrounding his vote on me was super scummy, and included an honest to goodness lie in his justification for said vote. The case is far from terrible. Let's not get confused by the fact that there did exist earlier cases on Eevee that were terrible.
Please stop tunnelling so hard.  Eevee's statement wasn't a straight-up lie, it was just an exaggeration.  Nobody read it and said "oh cuzz IS always calling Eevee scummy."

I sort of feel like I'll end up claiming today with a good probability. Should I do it earlier to give us/you more time to react? Obviously not commenting on what I think your reaction to my claim will be.
If I get my way, you will not be claiming at all today.  I think you are a bad lynch for today.  Please don't claim early.

I also find it weird that two players--one of whom had previously suspected him--declared that they would not vote for him.

Not everything's so black and white Robz. Do you even understand why I said I porbably wouldn't vote for him today?

It looked to me like you said it because you received a ton of blowback, and were trying to gracefully bow out of the whole Eevee wagon ordeal.
Robz, this is exactly how I read that too.  Between teh Eevee/Jimmm interaction, they both may have felt a little weird, but Jimmmm felt inherently scummy.  His original position seemed forced, the way he decreased suspicion bit-by-bit seemed staged, and now he "won't vote eevee".  ALL of his opinions regarding eevee seem completely manufactured.  I can't tell right now if that makes eevee more likely Jimmmm's partner, or town that Jimmm's trying to get credit from, but I'm very certain it makes Jimmmm scum.  I think he's a much better lynch than Eevee.

Vote: Jimmmmm
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #521 on: January 08, 2013, 12:22:31 pm »

@shraeye: I completely agree with you on Jimm. I think that's a productive direction to go at this point, and I'm willing to put my vote there instead. (We're just not really at the point where it matters too much where my vote is, regardless.)
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

Eevee

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #522 on: January 08, 2013, 12:26:27 pm »

We really want to lynch the guy who is suddenly the MOST active?

Galz's analysis of lurkers was sound. I am confident we should get one of them today.
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #523 on: January 08, 2013, 12:28:58 pm »

We really want to lynch the guy who is suddenly the MOST active?

Galz's analysis of lurkers was sound. I am confident we should get one of them today.

I think that's the opposite of Galz's analysis of lurkers. Wasn't he saying no one is really lurking very much? The two lowest people are actually contributing substance, and then we have Glooble, and obvtown, and up from there it's not really lurking. I think Galz was saying that lurking actually isn't an issue here.

What's more, Theorel explained (and I agree with him) why that's happening: the scum are actually scumhunting for the other faction.

I am sensitive to the fact that my top scumreads are on the most active players who aren't me, and maybe that's a problem with my reads, but I'm not sure LALL is going to cut here, and I don't think Galz was arguing for it, anyway.
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I have been forced to accept that lackluster play is a town tell for you.

shraeye

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #524 on: January 08, 2013, 12:29:47 pm »

About Cuzz
Let's say we forget about the whole situation with your earlier case on Eevee and throw it all away. You're still saying that you refuse to consider voting for someone today whom you do not have a townread on, and that's an anti-town attitude.
This is a terrible premise for an argument.  First, forget the main reason that is backing Jimmmm's opinion on somebody.  Then analyze Jimmmm's opinion and call it out as anti-town.  If you're saying Jimmm is scummy, then I agree.  But if you're saying Jimmm is scummy simply for not wanting to vote for a nullread, then I disagree.

Cuzz has said very little, and what he has said I haven't agreed with. I am keeping my vote on him until someone does something more suspicious or until he stops fitting my scum narrative for him perfectly.

Yes, I realize this is somewhat unfair for Cuzz, but I really do think this game needs more voting.

Examples, maybe? You also said this earlier:

Cuzz
Noread, but I buy his reasons for being this silent.

so I'm not sure what changed.
I don't see any change between these two statements.  You hadn't said much, and were also a nullread for me.  I don't recall what you had said previously, but one can disagree to someone without attributing scumminess.  I do this quite often.  Like with Robz right now.  I think he's wrong in voting Eevee, but I have a townread on him.

I am keeping my vote on him until someone does something more suspicious or until he stops fitting my scum narrative for him perfectly.
And what's this scum narrative for me of yours that I'm fitting so perfectly? I'm not saying the idea is inconceivable but you're not backing up your assertions at all here.
I dislike both of these statements.  I don't like somebody emptily saying "this fits my scum narrative" without telling people what the narrative is; however, I have done this as town I believe (or at least it feels like something I'd do as town) so I guess I'm a hypocrite. But Cuzz's statement here is much more scummy in my opinion.  This is the third post in a row where he's picking apart Eevee's case on him.  This comes across to me as a VERY zealous defense, especially because there are only two votes on Cuzz, and Eevee at the same time is facing a much more real wagon.  That actually makes things more suspicious to me.  The storyline that I see in my mind is that scumCuzz is getting a little bit of heat and notices that somebody suspecting him is seen as suspicious.  So he's viciously attacking a case that didn't feel all that weak to me.  Trying to paint Eevee as even worse for having made this case.

Also, the wording of Cuzz's post above sets off some of my scumtells.  The "I have reason to be suspected, but you aren't explaining yourself at all.  I'm getting caught for no reason" scumtell to be precise.
Vote: Eevee
Are you voting for me because you think I'm inventing suspicion on you?

Because you said a bunch of stuff in your "explanation" of your vote on me that you didn't back up at all, and I found that scummy.
Here again cuzz is getting angry at not having a "legitimate reason" for the votes on him.  Also this vote back on Eevee is 100% OMGUS in my book, and the logical conclusion at the end of the tunnel that Cuzz has been running down.  The last time I saw tunnelly Cuzz, it was in Buffy mafia where I was telling Cuzz/yuma to stop tunnelling the bejeezus out of eachother.  End story there was Cuzz was scum and yuma was town (yeah Cuzz was SK, but SK is scum in my book; same survivalist, lynch-anybody-but-my-team goals as mafia). So this makes me very suspicious of Cuzz.

Vote: Cuzz

is a good idea, but I'm torn between him and Jimmmm, two huge scumreads for me right now.  I think I prefer Jimmmm.

Vote: Jimmmmm
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