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[Robz888]

...but that could come from robz being a sub par town player...

Kid catches on quick!

I am unoffended, but I find it interesting that you are too busy to offer real reads, yet here you are when the opportunity for a joke appears! So I guess you're following pretty closely, just not saying anything? Interesting strategy, I wonder what your Alignment is.

[Cuzz]

...but that could come from robz being a sub par town player...

Kid catches on quick!

I am unoffended, but I find it interesting that you are too busy to offer real reads, yet here you are when the opportunity for a joke appears! So I guess you're following pretty closely, just not saying anything? Interesting strategy, I wonder what your Alignment is.

Yeah, I thought someone might mention this, but that quote was too good to ignore (and of course I only meant it as friendly joshing). And as I said, I am not following closely, I am vaguely skimming. I'm behind on all the real substance of the last lots of pages, and will catch up tomorrow and be useful then  .

[TheMunch]

Maybe I missed this too: Has there been any theory talk whatsoever? It seems like the normal chatting and scum hunting has been going on but no discussion of the multiple scum team stuff?  I dont think I've played a mutliple scum team game and I dont really know whats best when it comes to what information should actually be discussed and what stuff will actually help scum more than town.  Just curious.

[Jimmmmm]

My experience of multiple scum teams is that it's easier for scum to actually scumhunt. So in a sense that makes it harder for us to figure out who's scum based on who seems to be genuinely looking for scum. But there hasn't been terribly much theory talk as I think the majority of the thread has stemmed from Dsell's calling out of Eevee for not saying he was Station-Aligned.

[theorel]

Maybe I missed this too: Has there been any theory talk whatsoever? It seems like the normal chatting and scum hunting has been going on but no discussion of the multiple scum team stuff?  I dont think I've played a mutliple scum team game and I dont really know whats best when it comes to what information should actually be discussed and what stuff will actually help scum more than town.  Just curious.

I'm not sure I understand the question?
I'm pretty confident in saying there's no information which should not be talked about in single-scum-team games which should be talked about in multi-scum-team games.  In particular, this might be a single-scum-team game for all we know.

Is there information which should not be discussed given multiple teams, which could be discussed in single-teams?  Well, outside of the identity PRs, I'm of the opinion that most information is fair-game for discussion, and tends to help town as much if not more than scum.  I don't think that ceases to be true in multi-ball.  I can't think of anything off-hand that is good to talk about in single-team games and bad to talk about in multi-team games.

So, what about multi-team games makes it special?  Well the one item brought up several times is that the scum can legitimately scum-hunt.  This is pretty big IMO, because a big part of my town-reads generally come from the feeling that people are trying to "solve" the set-up.  A second item (also already mentioned) is that scum are less apt to make the "buddy up to a known townie" thing...because they don't know if a given player is in fact town.

One interesting thing to keep in mind here: we don't know if there are 2 teams.  There may be 1 team + SK, which plays so much like 1 team that it's near equivalent.  Of course this depends on scum-knowledge of set-up (which is as limited as town knowledge).  But, particularly if Robz' conjecture is correct (i.e. 4 scum total regardless of teams), then the scum KNOW whether we're currently playing multi-ball or not.

[raerae]

Maybe I missed this too: Has there been any theory talk whatsoever? It seems like the normal chatting and scum hunting has been going on but no discussion of the multiple scum team stuff?  I dont think I've played a mutliple scum team game and I dont really know whats best when it comes to what information should actually be discussed and what stuff will actually help scum more than town.  Just curious.

I have to admit that in the whole two games I've played, I've found theory talk painfully boring and unhelpful.  Fully admit I am probably wrong in this aspect but still, that's how I feel.  Mr. Munch, seeing as how you've been following this game, any reads already?

[yuma]

man this game is just swarming with twin claims!

shraeye, thanks for your explanation about your new strategy.

I guess I like it as town, because it helps you scum hunt. But I am not liking it as much if you are scum, because it allows you to coast without offering any real insights up for analysis--especially analysis later in the game when we can go back and compare your reads to your actions and to your reads later in the game.

So I guess what I am saying is that if that is how you are going to play, I am going to hope you are town, but don't be surprised if you get read scummy by others for playing such.

[ashersky]

One interesting thing to keep in mind here: we don't know if there are 2 teams.  There may be 1 team + SK, which plays so much like 1 team that it's near equivalent.  Of course this depends on scum-knowledge of set-up (which is as limited as town knowledge).  But, particularly if Robz' conjecture is correct (i.e. 4 scum total regardless of teams), then the scum KNOW whether we're currently playing multi-ball or not.

If there is an SK, he knows the set-up, right?  Like, he's the only person who knows the set-up.

[Dsell]

Maybe I missed this too: Has there been any theory talk whatsoever? It seems like the normal chatting and scum hunting has been going on but no discussion of the multiple scum team stuff?  I dont think I've played a mutliple scum team game and I dont really know whats best when it comes to what information should actually be discussed and what stuff will actually help scum more than town.  Just curious.

I actually find this scummy. I'm not sure what good discussion of the different teams does for town. At this point, town has literally no way of knowing whether it is 2 scum teams or 1 scum team + SK.

Scum, however, might be interested in getting people to talk about this, to try to divine which setup is more likely (given that scum has more knowledge to start with). Don't get me wrong, this may be very beneficial conversation on a later day, but I don't see how this discussion is at all helpful on day 1. It feels like a distraction.

[Jimmmmm]

Maybe I missed this too: Has there been any theory talk whatsoever? It seems like the normal chatting and scum hunting has been going on but no discussion of the multiple scum team stuff?  I dont think I've played a mutliple scum team game and I dont really know whats best when it comes to what information should actually be discussed and what stuff will actually help scum more than town.  Just curious.

Also, it's a good thing Grujah's not here.

[Jimmmmm]

Maybe I missed this too: Has there been any theory talk whatsoever? It seems like the normal chatting and scum hunting has been going on but no discussion of the multiple scum team stuff?  I dont think I've played a mutliple scum team game and I dont really know whats best when it comes to what information should actually be discussed and what stuff will actually help scum more than town.  Just curious.

I have to admit that in the whole two games I've played, I've found theory talk painfully boring and unhelpful.  Fully admit I am probably wrong in this aspect but still, that's how I feel.  Mr. Munch, seeing as how you've been following this game, any reads already?

I think the main purposes of theory talk are to get the game going at the start and to help "solve" the setup. But generally once there's specific game-related things to talk about that's generally more interesting.

[Glooble]

As a frequent scum player, I can say I found theory talk a great way to pretend to participate. I'm sure it has its uses, but for now I'm just as happy to be shot of it.

[Robz888]

As a frequent scum player, I can say I found theory talk a great way to pretend to participate. I'm sure it has its uses, but for now I'm just as happy to be shot of it.

So without theory talk, how are you going to pretend to participate?

[mcmcsalot]

To finish up my robz post, I see the difference between your blitz play style and in this one, askin follow up questions vs waiting for responses. Which seems pro town enough.

Phone posting for now, will be back for some more analysis at 3

[raerae]

Maybe I missed this too: Has there been any theory talk whatsoever? It seems like the normal chatting and scum hunting has been going on but no discussion of the multiple scum team stuff?  I dont think I've played a mutliple scum team game and I dont really know whats best when it comes to what information should actually be discussed and what stuff will actually help scum more than town.  Just curious.

I actually find this scummy. I'm not sure what good discussion of the different teams does for town. At this point, town has literally no way of knowing whether it is 2 scum teams or 1 scum team + SK.

Scum, however, might be interested in getting people to talk about this, to try to divine which setup is more likely (given that scum has more knowledge to start with). Don't get me wrong, this may be very beneficial conversation on a later day, but I don't see how this discussion is at all helpful on day 1. It feels like a distraction.

I don't if it's scummy.  It seems like we jumped out of RVS super quick so easy to miss what little theory talk there was, plus it seems genuine to me if he has, in fact, never played in a multi-scum team game.  That definitely adds another layer of uncertainty to the game so it makes sense, if you're a person who finds value in theory talk, to talk, or at least ask, about theory discussion.

[mcmcsalot]

Wouldn't theory talk help to find scum, as dsell said, town has no way of knowing the number of scum, scum would at least know they exist, as would sk. So in a way the most informed person about scum teams and sk would be the scum teams and sk. So town is the one who is losing out here, we know nothing and shoul benefit from talk of it. It can't benefit sk, as they already know the setup. The only thing is would knowledge of another scum team or sk benefit the scum teams more than town. This I don't know as I've never played a multi scum team game.

[Robz888]

I don't think there's any theory talk we can have, beyond what's been said. If someone disagrees, by all means, talk about theory.

[liopoil]

Seems to me the thing people are doing is writing up something about each player. So I'm gonna try that.

ashersky: Seems a bit scummy for the case against Raerae. I understand what he's saying but I don't agree with it. I agree we shouldn't always assume "raerae is just being raerae". However I don't think she has acted scummy at all. She has added to the converstation with questions about others, and has stated her beliefs on other things as well. Her defense was also very convincing. I think I remember him being on the Eevee wagon. I didn't like the Eevee wagon.

Robz888: Also on the Eevee wagon. I think he's being a bit over-accusatory. Has been on the lurker's case a bit too much, as have others. At this point the lurkers have had good excuses. Talked about the setup a bunch too. Stuff with the number of mafia is interesting. I'm not as sure about 4 as he is. what about 4 with SK? or even 3-2? He would know more about this if he was scum. Alo would be more likely to talk about it.

Yuma: I think he's station. People talk about invisiyuma lurking, getting away with it, and then winning as scum in the past. He's been talking a lot here though, and it has been helpful stuff.

Eevee: Totally buy his case. I'd go as far to say that he'd be more likely to say "I'm town" post 1 as town than as scum. I can't see him say "I'm station" either. So that case seems really weak to me so I suspect the people who made it. I thought his response to attack was adequate too.

Shraeye: No. Idea. At. All. I actually can't remember his posts too well. Should re-read.

Cuzz:

I am unoffended, but I find it interesting that you are too busy to offer real reads, yet here you are when the opportunity for a joke appears! So I guess you're following pretty closely, just not saying anything? Interesting strategy, I wonder what your Alignment is.

And as I said, I am not following closely, I am vaguely skimming. I'm behind on all the real substance of the last lots of pages, and will catch up tomorrow and be useful then  .

Said he would be useful tomorrow yesterday. If he hasn't been useful by the end of the day than I think he will be the only person worthy of suspicion on the basis of lurking.

Glooble: Well, I guess he hasn't said whole lot either. Slight town read based on he said things which make sense and I agree with.

Raerae: Stood up for herself more viciously than I would think scum would. As I said before I think she has said useful things, asked useful questions. Probably station.

liopoil: clearly town. Agree with him on absolutely everything.

mcmcsalot: Pretty much no read. maybe slightly more scummy than station, but if I had to guess I'd say town because there are more town than scum. Oh wait, he said I was scummy once. Nevermind guys he's scum! 
 
Jimmmmm: I still think he's a bit scummy for the same reasons that I voted him for, but less so now. More stuff has come to light sice then, so Unvote.

theorel: Probably has provided the most, and the highest quality analysis. And I agree with it, so I think he's station.

sparky5856 TheMunch. I couldn't figure anything out based on what little sparky said, but I think I person would be slightly less likely to withdraw if they were scum, simply because I think it would be more fun to be scum than station/town. TheMunch has also seemed towny to me.

Dsell: Only way that he is scum is if he a) was told by Joth in QT that the town was actually station. (unlikely I think) b) He guessed that there would be some flavor name for the town, because there are flavor names for the scum (mirror, maquis, changling). Or maybe there was something in his PM that mentioned "the station" instead of "the town".  The more I think about it the more likely it seems to me that one of these happened. However, if it did he still would have had to get the idea to do this, and have the nerve to go for it. Then again, say he is scum and was rather clever with that post. This would be a reason for him to lurk, because he knows tht he can likely get away with it. Still, I think he is town.

Galzria: Also pretty null. Maybe slight town.

on theory: I think knowledge on the setup helps scum more than town. It lets them make much more educated nightkills. More than it helps town make educated lynch's. This is because the scum already know more about the setup than us.

In summary: town reads: Dsell, Eevee, Raerae, TheMunch, Yuma, Theorel, LIOPOIL
                   Scum reads: Ashersky, Robz888, Jimmmmm.

Did I do it right guys? 

[ashersky]

Seems to me the thing people are doing is writing up something about each player. So I'm gonna try that.

ashersky: Seems a bit scummy for the case against Raerae. I understand what he's saying but I don't agree with it. I agree we shouldn't always assume "raerae is just being raerae". However I don't think she has acted scummy at all. She has added to the converstation with questions about others, and has stated her beliefs on other things as well. Her defense was also very convincing. I think I remember him being on the Eevee wagon. I didn't like the Eevee wagon.

Robz888: Also on the Eevee wagon. I think he's being a bit over-accusatory. Has been on the lurker's case a bit too much, as have others. At this point the lurkers have had good excuses. Talked about the setup a bunch too. Stuff with the number of mafia is interesting. I'm not as sure about 4 as he is. what about 4 with SK? or even 3-2? He would know more about this if he was scum. Alo would be more likely to talk about it.

Yuma: I think he's station. People talk about invisiyuma lurking, getting away with it, and then winning as scum in the past. He's been talking a lot here though, and it has been helpful stuff.

Eevee: Totally buy his case. I'd go as far to say that he'd be more likely to say "I'm town" post 1 as town than as scum. I can't see him say "I'm station" either. So that case seems really weak to me so I suspect the people who made it. I thought his response to attack was adequate too.

Shraeye: No. Idea. At. All. I actually can't remember his posts too well. Should re-read.

Cuzz:

I am unoffended, but I find it interesting that you are too busy to offer real reads, yet here you are when the opportunity for a joke appears! So I guess you're following pretty closely, just not saying anything? Interesting strategy, I wonder what your Alignment is.

And as I said, I am not following closely, I am vaguely skimming. I'm behind on all the real substance of the last lots of pages, and will catch up tomorrow and be useful then  .

Said he would be useful tomorrow yesterday. If he hasn't been useful by the end of the day than I think he will be the only person worthy of suspicion on the basis of lurking.

Glooble: Well, I guess he hasn't said whole lot either. Slight town read based on he said things which make sense and I agree with.

Raerae: Stood up for herself more viciously than I would think scum would. As I said before I think she has said useful things, asked useful questions. Probably station.

liopoil: clearly town. Agree with him on absolutely everything.

mcmcsalot: Pretty much no read. maybe slightly more scummy than station, but if I had to guess I'd say town because there are more town than scum. Oh wait, he said I was scummy once. Nevermind guys he's scum! 
 
Jimmmmm: I still think he's a bit scummy for the same reasons that I voted him for, but less so now. More stuff has come to light sice then, so Unvote.

theorel: Probably has provided the most, and the highest quality analysis. And I agree with it, so I think he's station.

sparky5856 TheMunch. I couldn't figure anything out based on what little sparky said, but I think I person would be slightly less likely to withdraw if they were scum, simply because I think it would be more fun to be scum than station/town. TheMunch has also seemed towny to me.

Dsell: Only way that he is scum is if he a) was told by Joth in QT that the town was actually station. (unlikely I think) b) He guessed that there would be some flavor name for the town, because there are flavor names for the scum (mirror, maquis, changling). Or maybe there was something in his PM that mentioned "the station" instead of "the town".  The more I think about it the more likely it seems to me that one of these happened. However, if it did he still would have had to get the idea to do this, and have the nerve to go for it. Then again, say he is scum and was rather clever with that post. This would be a reason for him to lurk, because he knows tht he can likely get away with it. Still, I think he is town.

Galzria: Also pretty null. Maybe slight town.

on theory: I think knowledge on the setup helps scum more than town. It lets them make much more educated nightkills. More than it helps town make educated lynch's. This is because the scum already know more about the setup than us.

In summary: town reads: Dsell, Eevee, Raerae, TheMunch, Yuma, Theorel, LIOPOIL
                   Scum reads: Ashersky, Robz888, Jimmmmm.

Did I do it right guys? 

Good post.  Town read.

NB: ashersky, Robz, jimmmmm scum team would be a good one.

[mcmcsalot]

Yuma, this one is less indepth as coming from phone. You have some solid analysis coming out early game. Many of your posts were about the raerae, ashersky debacle so no reads of of that. The only thing that gives me a read on you is that you felt I was scummy, said I made the scummiest post in the game and then as the arguing started you seem to have forgot your post about me. As did whomever you asked to comment who was scummier, me or eevee. That gives me a bit of a scum read as you tried to push a case on me and when noone picked it up you dropped it.

[Eevee]

I doubt newbie scum could fake it that well, town read on liopoil from that long and helpful post.

[Galzria]

I am way way way behind. I feel like the forums are going crazy today. I've got the day off, and will be here to catch up by tonight, but since this is the biggest of the games I'm in, it'll have to wait for now. I want to be able to dedicate my full attention here when I catch up - and right this minute there's too much else going on.

[Robz888]

I doubt newbie scum could fake it that well, town read on liopoil from that long and helpful post.

I don't really agree. Those "long post on everyone" posts used to me more popular in previous games, and I think scum found them just as easy to write as town. I'm already sufficiently impressed with liopoil that I don't think it would be any harder for him to do it as scum than anyone else. That said, I don't find him scummy for doing it, I just am not awarding automatic town points for it. And I do disagree with his reads on the Eevee wagon, on Jimm and ashersky, and of course he is wrong about me.

[Robz888]

used to me = used to be

[jotheonah]

At 1 p.m., Chief O'Brien realizes nothing terrible has happened to him all day.

"Score!" he says, standing up and hitting his head on the top of the Jeffries Tube.

Vote Count 1.8

Eevee (1): Jimmmmm
TheMunch (1): theorel
Cuzz (2): Galzria, Robz888
raerae (1): ashersky
mcmcsalot (1): yuma
ashersky (2): Glooble, mcmcsalot

Not Voting (7): shraeye, raerae, TheMunch, Cuzz, Dsell, Eevee, liopoil


With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch

Deadline is January 18 at 7:10 p.m., forum time.