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[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

  NOTE: VOTE COUNT 1.2 WAS IN ERROR, AND CANNOT BE MODIFIED BY ME

Vote Count 1.3

Galzria (1): Robz
Eevee (4): Cuzz, Ashersky, Robz888, Jimmmm,

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch

Deadline is January 18 at 7:10 p.m., forum time.

Thanks Jimmmm.  < Bows head in shame, mutters muted acknowledgment of superior attention to detail (damn that hurts), renounces previous vow to never let Jimmmm co-mod again, bemoans error and subsequent loss of face with Joth, reminds self to read his own signature, moves on>
[/quote]

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

NINJA'D?   And I wrote flavor!

Sorry Joth, I checked before I started, and you weren't online.

[Glooble]

Ok, I wanted a vote count before I did this, but

Vote: Jimmmm

Mostly I'm just getting bad vibes off the guy. We know the setup has no super strong town PRs, so his preemptive "don't lynch me" just doesn't make sense to me as a town move, and nothing he's said has convinced me. I'm not at all sold on this Eevee wagon, and Jimmm's been pushing it hard. Though his arguments aren't without merit, right now he just looks like the most likely scum to me.

[shraeye]

extended for clarity
Kind of meh Dsell became almost obvtown because of something like this, but could be worse - I could have had time to answer and clear myself before Joth stepped in (well handled btw).

Fwiw, even if I got here before Joth, I wouldnt have answered because it would have felt like a very unfair way to gain a lot of town cred.

These statements seem to be a contradiction.

I finally found this when you asked again what people thought about your case.  I see no contradiction.  Eevee thinks that answering this flavor-question would have been an unfair way to gain towncred.  This matches his sentiment that he thinks it's not very fair to the game setup that Dsell has gained towncred for having asked this question; but he's saying that an even more unfair event COULD have occurred, if he HAD answered. 

I disagree with this last bit in that even if he had answered correctly, I'm not sure I would have cleared him fully.  As joth said, town/station could have been clarified in a scum QT.

[raerae]

Speaking of Slowbro's:

Helpful Mafia hint: Don't make the mod look bad. 

You've been warned.

Oh sweetie, you don't need our help with that! 

[mcmcsalot]

extended for clarity
Kind of meh Dsell became almost obvtown because of something like this, but could be worse - I could have had time to answer and clear myself before Joth stepped in (well handled btw).

Fwiw, even if I got here before Joth, I wouldnt have answered because it would have felt like a very unfair way to gain a lot of town cred.

These statements seem to be a contradiction.

I finally found this when you asked again what people thought about your case.  I see no contradiction.  Eevee thinks that answering this flavor-question would have been an unfair way to gain towncred.  This matches his sentiment that he thinks it's not very fair to the game setup that Dsell has gained towncred for having asked this question; but he's saying that an even more unfair event COULD have occurred, if he HAD answered. 

I disagree with this last bit in that even if he had answered correctly, I'm not sure I would have cleared him fully.  As joth said, town/station could have been clarified in a scum QT.

But don't the two comments from eevee say, he could have had time to respond and then say even if I got here before joth. So did he have time to respond and didn't or did joth respond before eevee had a chance to.

[Robz888]

Jimmmmm makes some very compelling points against eevee. A direct contradiction is always worth pursuing. However, I'm not getting a town vibe from jimmmmm at all. His caution against lynching him when he didn't have a single vote on him rad extremely scummy to me. If he is a town power role, he just help up a huge neon sign saying NIGHTKILL ME, and he seems too smart for thAt. Since I'm highly suspicious of jmmmmm, I'm less inclined to trust his arguments re: eevee. 

Oh yeah they sent me home early from work. I'm on the bus now posting from my phone.

I mean, they could both be scum, multiple teams and all.

[Robz888]

scum!eevee(can someone explain why we use the exlaimation point thing)

It's just notation that stuck. You have town!playername and scum!playername. Quicker than saying scum-aligned playername.

[shraeye]

Oh look, I'm everyone's top scum read. Jolly!

Trying to address all the questions from mobile, if I fail do ask again.

@Jimmm
Dsell becoming almost obvtown is certainly good for my wincon in this game, it's just the way it happened. it wasn't ny in game mechanics, I sort of feel we were taking advantage of a slight mod oversight. I don't want to win that way.  I'm not saying blaming Dsell or saying he should have pm'd joth first or anything, it must have been bery exciting to think you can catch scum so early.

Jimmm's contradiction case has the makings of a classic day 1 mislynch. Why would I have to lie/contradict myself there if I was scum? I just realized I probably wouldn't have answered the question either way after hitting send, and posted that. Why would I possibly be intentionally dishonest there?

Hey look, while catching up, I found that Eevee meant what I thought he meant with the Dsell thing. 

Eevee, you're not my biggest scumread!

Guys, don't lynch Eevee today!

[Robz888]

I agree with Galzria about Jimmm (or should I say mmmm).

Townread on yuma for articulating my defense better than I ever
could have. Making that much sense just reads towny to me.

lol PPE 17

PPE 17!?! On 3 lines of text! Yikes! Stop doing RL stuff inbetween typing and posting! RL is scummy.

Uh, yeah. Except I'm not joking about it. you labored over this post for an hour???

[shraeye]

-Town Eevee A sees Dsell's #25 and thinks "Oh yeah, that's right, we're Station or something. Well at least I can clear myself by checking my PM and saying that." He then almost immediately sees joth's #29, and is disappointed, leading him to say this:

I could have had time to answer and clear myself before Joth stepped in

(I'll acknowledge that that was taken slightly out of context, I'll get back to that)

This is as far as I've read so far, and I really hope this shit is cleared up by the time I reach the current posts.  You didn't get back to the fact that that quote was taken out of context within this post; and that post is taken COMPLETELY out of context, not just 'slightly out of context.'  Here it has the exact opposite meaning of the original post, hence your supposed "contradiction."

[Eevee]

Oh look, I'm everyone's top scum read. Jolly!

Trying to address all the questions from mobile, if I fail do ask again.

@Jimmm
Dsell becoming almost obvtown is certainly good for my wincon in this game, it's just the way it happened. it wasn't ny in game mechanics, I sort of feel we were taking advantage of a slight mod oversight. I don't want to win that way.  I'm not saying blaming Dsell or saying he should have pm'd joth first or anything, it must have been bery exciting to think you can catch scum so early.

Jimmm's contradiction case has the makings of a classic day 1 mislynch. Why would I have to lie/contradict myself there if I was scum? I just realized I probably wouldn't have answered the question either way after hitting send, and posted that. Why would I possibly be intentionally dishonest there?

Hey look, while catching up, I found that Eevee meant what I thought he meant with the Dsell thing. 

Eevee, you're not my biggest scumread!

Guys, don't lynch Eevee today!

For once!

I agree with Galzria about Jimmm (or should I say mmmm).

Townread on yuma for articulating my defense better than I ever
could have. Making that much sense just reads towny to me.

lol PPE 17

PPE 17!?! On 3 lines of text! Yikes! Stop doing RL stuff inbetween typing and posting! RL is scummy.

Was phone posting from dinner when our party of three realized everyone is doing something on their phone instead of say talking to each other, so we made a pact that the first guy to touch his phone until the meal is over has to take care of the check. I decided not to finish the post, as the check was 150 euros. Getting the fairly meaningless post in asap didn't feal like such a big deal anymore!

[Robz888]

Okay. Well, that's a fun story for our modern era.

[shraeye]

I initially read this as "I wish I had a chance to clear my name", so the fact that he actually means "It's good that I didn't get to clear my name" casts a little more doubt on my case. However, he's still saying that he would have cleared his name. And despite his saying this:

I just realized I probably wouldn't have answered the question either way after hitting send, and posted that.

it's 4 Eevee posts and 1 hour and 46 minutes (I failed at counting in my previous post) before Eevee finally says that he actually wouldn't've answered.

Ok good, you cleared it up and finally got Eevee's intent right.  But the bolded part is still incorrect.

[raerae]

Guys, this is a crappy case against Eevee.  Do you have anything else on him other than those two sentences?  I won't lynch based on that alone.  Think about it logically for just a second.  I think we can all admit that Eevee is a clever guy, skilled in the ways of this game, and all around generally smart stuff.  He is too smart to make a direct contradiction like what you guys are reading from those posts.  I, personally, didn't read it as contradictory and think it's a simple case of awkward wording.

[Robz888]

Here is my case against Eevee.

What do you want me to say? I'm station-aligned. Kind of meh Dsell became almost obvtown because of something like this, but could be worse - I could have had time to answer and clear myself before Joth stepped in (well handled btw). Me claiming town was obviously just the running joke from blitz, also I didn't even remember what the exact wording was, not like I read my pm's that carefully. I still don't know what's my flavor name for example (because I've never seen any star trek so the name wouldn't mean anything to me).

I believe the bolded part is a lie, or at least an extreme exaggeration.

Although I must say, so many people are expressing opposition to the Eevee case and that can't all be scum, I am sort of ready to stop talking about it and look critically and someone else. I don't think it's rock-solid by any means. The "contradiction" thing is not much, no.

[Eevee]

Always playing the 2nd language - card in these situations feels dirty, but Glooble/yuma/raerea/shraeye have got it right. The whole thing is just me being a careless townie and wording stuff badly.

Jimm building a big case like this clearly shows he is trying though, which is admirable. I don't think he is a good day 1 lynch because if nothing else, he will be easier to catch as keeping something like that up as mafia is going to be really hard. I am announcing it now, I'm going to be pushing for a lynch of some non-contributor, and I don't mean raw post count but not taking positions and generally not offering your opinions to town. Easiest way of escaping my scrutiny is going to be being helpful!

@Robz
I still don't know my flavor name. Really, it's just a name for me. I know what my role does, and I wouldn't be able to name a single character of DS9. I am skipping all of the flavor in this game because of this (this doesn't mean I don't appreciate you taking the time to write it joth! I'm sure it's good, it's just not for me because I'm not educated on the matter).

[shraeye]

But don't the two comments from eevee say, he could have had time to respond and then say even if I got here before joth. So did he have time to respond and didn't or did joth respond before eevee had a chance to.

No, Eevee's first statement with 'could' is a hypothetical.  He's saying, all in one phrase, "it could have been worse, I could have had time to respond."

He's indicating that this possibility might have happened, but it didn't.  So he's saying that he didn't have time to respond before Joth.  People have been focusing on the second part of the statement, and leaving off the "it could have been worse".  If you don't clip the statement, there is no contradiction.

[raerae]

Here is my case against Eevee.

What do you want me to say? I'm station-aligned. Kind of meh Dsell became almost obvtown because of something like this, but could be worse - I could have had time to answer and clear myself before Joth stepped in (well handled btw). Me claiming town was obviously just the running joke from blitz, also I didn't even remember what the exact wording was, not like I read my pm's that carefully. I still don't know what's my flavor name for example (because I've never seen any star trek so the name wouldn't mean anything to me).

I believe the bolded part is a lie, or at least an extreme exaggeration.

Although I must say, so many people are expressing opposition to the Eevee case and that can't all be scum, I am sort of ready to stop talking about it and look critically and someone else. I don't think it's rock-solid by any means. The "contradiction" thing is not much, no.

Thanks for answering, Robz.  I appreciate it. 

I can honestly say that if I weren't a super nerd, I wouldn't remember my characters name so that didn't ring strange to me. Unless, of course, Eevee is the president of the DS9 fan club in which case let's lynch his ass.

[shraeye]

Here is my case against Eevee.

What do you want me to say? I'm station-aligned. Kind of meh Dsell became almost obvtown because of something like this, but could be worse - I could have had time to answer and clear myself before Joth stepped in (well handled btw). Me claiming town was obviously just the running joke from blitz, also I didn't even remember what the exact wording was, not like I read my pm's that carefully. I still don't know what's my flavor name for example (because I've never seen any star trek so the name wouldn't mean anything to me).

I believe the bolded part is a lie, or at least an extreme exaggeration.

Although I must say, so many people are expressing opposition to the Eevee case and that can't all be scum, I am sort of ready to stop talking about it and look critically and someone else. I don't think it's rock-solid by any means. The "contradiction" thing is not much, no.

I'm not so sure of Eevee-specific arguments, you've had more experience with him.  But I can completely confirm that the bolded part is possible.  I had no idea who my character was, and I totally don't remember the name.  I know whether I'm good/bad and I know what my power is; with no connection to the flavor, that's enough for me.

[mcmcsalot]

Jimm is now my top scum read, with the amount of analysis he has had I read him as a very smart player who know what hes doing.

But don't the two comments from eevee say, he could have had time to respond and then say even if I got here before joth. So did he have time to respond and didn't or did joth respond before eevee had a chance to.

No, Eevee's first statement with 'could' is a hypothetical.  He's saying, all in one phrase, "it could have been worse, I could have had time to respond."

He's indicating that this possibility might have happened, but it didn't.  So he's saying that he didn't have time to respond before Joth.  People have been focusing on the second part of the statement, and leaving off the "it could have been worse".  If you don't clip the statement, there is no contradiction.

Jimm taking this out of context is ridiculous, I guess its my mistake for not going over it enough myself, but really I had strong scum feeling toward someone because of an out of context exaggeration. This just seems like a very anti town play, there is no reason for town!jimm to start a scumhunt by tricking people.

[shraeye]

Jimm is now my top scum read, with the amount of analysis he has had I read him as a very smart player who know what hes doing.

But don't the two comments from eevee say, he could have had time to respond and then say even if I got here before joth. So did he have time to respond and didn't or did joth respond before eevee had a chance to.

No, Eevee's first statement with 'could' is a hypothetical.  He's saying, all in one phrase, "it could have been worse, I could have had time to respond."

He's indicating that this possibility might have happened, but it didn't.  So he's saying that he didn't have time to respond before Joth.  People have been focusing on the second part of the statement, and leaving off the "it could have been worse".  If you don't clip the statement, there is no contradiction.

Jimm taking this out of context is ridiculous, I guess its my mistake for not going over it enough myself, but really I had strong scum feeling toward someone because of an out of context exaggeration. This just seems like a very anti town play, there is no reason for town!jimm to start a scumhunt by tricking people.

But I'm really not sold that Jimmm was trying to trick people.  I think he was just a little careless, which is not something I expect of Jimmmm, who's usually a very solid rational person.  So I have a very slight scumread from this, that increased to slight because of how hard it seemed he was pushing it.  But I'm not at all close to wanting to vote for him yet.

[raerae]

I think Jimmmmm was super excited because he thought he found scum.  He tried to shut down the little bicker-match ashersky and I were having to direct people back to his argument.  I believe scum would have just let that roll out, waste time, and distract people instead of redirecting. 

[raerae]

Oh look, I'm everyone's top scum read. Jolly!

Trying to address all the questions from mobile, if I fail do ask again.

@Jimmm
Dsell becoming almost obvtown is certainly good for my wincon in this game, it's just the way it happened. it wasn't ny in game mechanics, I sort of feel we were taking advantage of a slight mod oversight. I don't want to win that way.  I'm not saying blaming Dsell or saying he should have pm'd joth first or anything, it must have been bery exciting to think you can catch scum so early.

Jimmm's contradiction case has the makings of a classic day 1 mislynch. Why would I have to lie/contradict myself there if I was scum? I just realized I probably wouldn't have answered the question either way after hitting send, and posted that. Why would I possibly be intentionally dishonest there?

Hey look, while catching up, I found that Eevee meant what I thought he meant with the Dsell thing. 

Eevee, you're not my biggest scumread!

Guys, don't lynch Eevee today!

So...who is?

[shraeye]

Hey look, while catching up, I found that Eevee meant what I thought he meant with the Dsell thing. 

Eevee, you're not my biggest scumread!

Guys, don't lynch Eevee today!

So...who is?

I'm keeping that a secret.  I've found I prefer to let things develop a bit before opining publicly, as it helps prevent confirmation bias as new information comes out.