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[yuma]

The thing I don't like about Jimmm's case on Eevee is that he 1. explains that scumEevee would be more preoccupied thinking about himself than other people. but that 2. he made a mistake because he wasn't paying enough attention to what he had posted previously.

These don't fly together and is often the underlying problem of a case on a townie player who made a mistake because he actually isn't all that concerned about himself or how he looks.

[Galzria]

Hi guys! stationed alligned stuffs is interesting. what I get from this is that Dsell is very likely town (station) and eevee is slightly more likely to be scum  than the rest of you. From jimmmmm's post. It seems like he has an important role that will save him from bieng lynched, or at least is planning on claiming to have an important role that will save him from bieng lynched. I would also be against claiming flavour stuff or anything for that matter.

I don't know if this counts as "outing" Jimm, but I think he phrased it in a way that makes it obvious to anyone paying attention, and un-obvious to new people like liopil. Scum almost certainly will figure it out if they haven't already. I believe Jimm is saying that he is Hated, which simply means it takes 1 less vote to kill him. In other words, he dies at L-1. Given that Joth mention there may be negative utility roles, this makes sense.

It means that all things being equal, scum are actually less likely to kill him in the night.

Interesting thing about being "hated" is that when I was hated in Ozle's game way back when you guys lynched me  Day 1 despite my claim because being hated was viewed as being a "scummy role" You all were saying things like, "no way Ozle would give hated to a townie, he must be scum." Since then we have seen one more hated at least (Insomniac was also town) and people are treating this hated as likely town. Is hated a townie role, from my experience it is, but your guys reaction to it way back when made me think otherwise.

Erm.. to be fair... Voltgloss, who reacted most strongly, was scum in that game...

However, that brings up a good question. Maybe it's just that in The Oz's game, that was the first time our community had seen the modifier, and so our reaction to it's presence was a little over-excited. I think the basis for the case that it was a "scummy" modifier came from this:

Hated players are easier to lynch. It's a simple way to weaken a role, albeit one that's not necessarily fun for the player. However, Hated Townies can cause problems by causing LyLo to occur earlier. If a seven-player LyLo consists of three Townies, one Hated Townie, and three scum; the scum have already won if they know who the Hated Townie is. (This is not to say that the scum should simply endgame the Town in this case, as they may not be aware of one of the players being Hated.)

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Hated

The reason being that it seemed bastard that a Mod would put in an ability that would allow scum, under the right circumstances, to end-game town. Now, we've never seen this come to fruition, and upon reflection playing with the modifier, I think it's a whole lot less likely - and thus Hated=Scum is a pretty weaksauce case.

Basically, from my perspective, we were all Mafia Newbs back then (Yes, highlight "back then" with raised eyebrows and laugh), over reacting to a new role-modifier. These days, having played with "hated" more, I'm much more inclined to believe that it could be both a scum or town role.

All that said, I don't think Jimmmm is hated, but I'm not fishing further, and neither should anybody else.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Joth, I'm caught up to here, and am acknowledging gamestart.

[yuma]

right... yes I don't want to delve further into Jimmm's role... mostly I was whining about my dying day 1 in Ozle's game--put me off RMMM games in a bad way--because you guys--and yes especially scummy scummy volt--wouldn't believe that I could be town and hated. It was bad enough being hated, but then you guys made me Untrustworthy! Sob.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Joth, I'm caught up to here, and am acknowledging gamestart.  Sorry all, forgot the blue.  You've not gained a new player, I promise.

[Jimmmmm]

Hey we have another mod, acknowledging the gamestart after over 150 posts. There's a Slowbro meme there somewhere.

[Galzria]

Hey we have another mod, acknowledging the gamestart after over 150 posts. There's a Slowbro meme there somewhere.

Obvscum mod has been lurking. 1st post 150 in? LALL.

[Galzria]

right... yes I don't want to delve further into Jimmm's role... mostly I was whining about my dying day 1 in Ozle's game--put me off RMMM games in a bad way--because you guys--and yes especially scummy scummy volt--wouldn't believe that I could be town and hated. It was bad enough being hated, but then you guys made me Untrustworthy! Sob.

If it makes you feel any better, we all love having you in/around/hosting/owning us in all our games.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Speaking of Slowbro's:

Helpful Mafia hint: Don't make the mod look bad. 

You've been warned.

[Jimmmmm]

Speaking of Slowbro's:

Helpful Mafia hint: Don't make the mod look bad. 

You've been warned.

Wow, the CSI: Miami song just went off in my head.

[Glooble]

The thing I don't like about Jimmm's case on Eevee is that he 1. explains that scumEevee would be more preoccupied thinking about himself than other people. but that 2. he made a mistake because he wasn't paying enough attention to what he had posted previously.

These don't fly together and is often the underlying problem of a case on a townie player who made a mistake because he actually isn't all that concerned about himself or how he looks.

I hadn't considered that angle, but now that you do it makes sense to me.

His caution against lynching him when he didn't have a single vote on him rad extremely scummy to me.

If/when the time came, I just wanted something to refer back to so that my claim wouldn't look like it came out of left field.

Yeah, that reasoning doesn't sound townie at all. You can breadcrumb a fakeclaim just as easily as a real one.

Can we get a vote count?

[mcmcsalot]

So I don't find yuma's argument against jimm's very strong. He is saying that scum!eevee(can someone explain why we use the exlaimation point thing) gets caught looking like scum and doesn't know what to do. Then he later has time to think of what he would do and post that. Nowhere does jim say eevee is too preocupied with himself thinking about himself.

A poor defense of another player makes me think scum team, I know thinking scum teams in a game this huge is a terrible idea but I thought of it so I'm saying it.

In summary still feel scummy about eevee, feel slightly scummy about yuma.

[Jimmmmm]

Yeah, that reasoning doesn't sound townie at all. You can breadcrumb a fakeclaim just as easily as a real one.

Of course, my other intention was to make sure I'm allowed to claim before being lynched (I have been lynched before while I was away, albeit in a blitz game when it was not unexpected). We can discuss it further if and when have to claim.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Stand by for votecount.

[Jimmmmm]

Standing by.

[Dsell]

Hey we have another mod, acknowledging the gamestart after over 150 posts. There's a Slowbro meme there somewhere.

Obvscum mod has been lurking. 1st post 150 in? LALL.

To be fair, I have been following Major Arcana 2 as a back up mod, and have yet to post in-thread. Nobody needs vote-counts when I'm around! (Except that this game was my first priority to read, so I'm not actually caught up there if there have been new posts...in before "well we need a vote count RIGHT NOW!!!1!)

[Dsell]

Hey we have another mod, acknowledging the gamestart after over 150 posts. There's a Slowbro meme there somewhere.

Obvscum mod has been lurking. 1st post 150 in? LALL.

And then there's lolcats... *innocent whistle*

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Vote Count 1.2

Galzria (1): Robz
Eevee (1): Cuzz, Ashersky, Robz888,

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch

Deadline is January 18 at 7:10 p.m., forum time.

This votecount was built from 1.1.  I've not listed the people not voting, in case there was a reason for Joth's not doing so (and to give Jimmm something else to mouth off about.    

[Dsell]

Eevee does not seem like town Eevee in this game. But everyone reacts differently when there is a case built on them, especially early. I am not super convinced by Jimmmm's contradiction case, though I'm gonna go over it again. It certainly seems possible that townEevee was just accidentally digging a deeper hole with that one. I'm just not sure.

[Eevee]

I agree with Galzria about Jimmm (or should I say mmmm).

Townread on yuma for articulating my defense better than I ever
could have. Making that much sense just reads towny to me.

lol PPE 17

[Galzria]

Eevee does not seem like town Eevee in this game. But everyone reacts differently when there is a case built on them, especially early. I am not super convinced by Jimmmm's contradiction case, though I'm gonna go over it again. It certainly seems possible that townEevee was just accidentally digging a deeper hole with that one. I'm just not sure.

I actually think, given Eevee's response, that he DOES feel more like town!Eevee here.

Actually, that's not right. He doesn't feel like Town!Eevee, but he really doesn't feel like scum!Eevee. I don't at all see the same play that I saw in ZM-IX as recently as yesterday. In that game, I got the constant feeling since his very first post of that he wasn't trying. It wasn't just apathy, it was something more, something deeper. When D2 hit and we had lynced town D1, he wasn't jumping up and down screaming to be heard. He was much more mellow and laid back. <-- And I think that's what I've been searching for. Scum!Eevee, while certainly more of a "cares-less-Eevee" gives off a "Eh, whatever" vibe. Here, Eevee made a mistake, but I don't get that same mellow and laid back feeling from his responses.

I guess it's an emotional read. Things like saying "town" instead of "station-aligned" are such complete null-tells. It's something that Scum!Eevee would do, and it's something that Town!Eevee would do. His responses since have seemed really scattered (which is what Jimm has picked up on). This is honestly more a Town!Eevee trait than Scum!Eevee though, and Eevee's responses since have definitely felt far from his scum meta - on a level that's hard to genuinely fake.

[Galzria]

I agree with Galzria about Jimmm (or should I say mmmm).

Townread on yuma for articulating my defense better than I ever
could have. Making that much sense just reads towny to me.

lol PPE 17

PPE 17!?! On 3 lines of text! Yikes! Stop doing RL stuff inbetween typing and posting! RL is scummy.

[Jimmmmm]

Vote Count 1.2

Galzria (1): Robz
Eevee (1): Cuzz, Ashersky, Robz888,

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch

Deadline is January 18 at 7:10 p.m., forum time.

This votecount was built from 1.1.  I've not listed the people not voting, in case there was a reason for Joth's not doing so (and to give Jimmm something else to mouth off about.    

Well okay then. I assume that crack was about my calling you Slowbro, and unrelated to you omitting my vote. I think you'll find that I am also voting for Eevee as of #132. Also, Cuzz + ash + Robz = 3 != 1 (although should be 4 if the other three are right).

</mouthing off>

[jotheonah]

Vote Count 1.2

Eevee (4): Cuzz, Ashersky, Robz888, Jimmmmm
Not voting(11): Galzria, mcmcsalot, raerae, liopoil, shraeye, Glooble, Eevee, yuma, sparky5856, Dsell, theorel

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch

Deadline is January 18 at 7:10 p.m., forum time.

[jotheonah]

Whoops forgot to write flavor. Well maybe next vote count.