Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Robz888]

Sparky, yuma, and Glooble:

When you get here, please comment on Eevee. And general opinions on the relatively new players perhaps (mc, rae, lio)?

[ashersky]

Ash's town!meta at this point seems to be self-pity.

I prefer everyone else's pity.

[Galzria]

But Galz, you sort of glossed over what has become the bigger issue with Eevee, which is the stuff he said about his role PM and the setup, that just run so hollow to me, coming from Eevee. Well, whatever you don't have to address it, if you don't find it compelling, that's that.

Has everyone talked? I feel like this is a fairly typical, non-explosive start (well, compared to M-XVIII of course). But I don't feel like I've heard from everyone, really. Only Eevee, Jimm, Galz, and Dsell have made much of an impression on me. Ash and raerae to a lesser extent. I have no idea if yuma is playing, for instance.

I think that I did though, which is to say that I think Jimmmm's line of thought towards Eevee might bear merit. But that was not the case that I saw you presenting earlier, although maybe it's the case you feel is stronger now (protip: it is). I'm waiting to here back from Eevee before damning him as scum though, since he hasn't posted since Jimmm did (I think?).

Even then, Jimmm's case is decent for D1 shenanigans, but I still hope to find something stronger by the time the lynch rolls around.

[ashersky]

Ash's town!meta at this point seems to be self-pity.

Not saying he's scummy here (honestly haven't read closely enough to form an opinion, and too drunk to do it now), but that would be an awfully easy meta to recreate as scum. "Oh woe is me! I'm so easy to mislynch!"

Yeah, probably.  I look forward to trying it out someday.

[ashersky]

But Galz, you sort of glossed over what has become the bigger issue with Eevee, which is the stuff he said about his role PM and the setup, that just run so hollow to me, coming from Eevee. Well, whatever you don't have to address it, if you don't find it compelling, that's that.

Has everyone talked? I feel like this is a fairly typical, non-explosive start (well, compared to M-XVIII of course). But I don't feel like I've heard from everyone, really. Only Eevee, Jimm, Galz, and Dsell have made much of an impression on me. Ash and raerae to a lesser extent. I have no idea if yuma is playing, for instance.

I think that I did though, which is to say that I think Jimmmm's line of thought towards Eevee might bear merit. But that was not the case that I saw you presenting earlier, although maybe it's the case you feel is stronger now (protip: it is). I'm waiting to here back from Eevee before damning him as scum though, since he hasn't posted since Jimmm did (I think?).

Even then, Jimmm's case is decent for D1 shenanigans, but I still hope to find something stronger by the time the lynch rolls around.

We could just lynch Eevee and let the cops work at night.

[Robz888]

But Galz, you sort of glossed over what has become the bigger issue with Eevee, which is the stuff he said about his role PM and the setup, that just run so hollow to me, coming from Eevee. Well, whatever you don't have to address it, if you don't find it compelling, that's that.

Has everyone talked? I feel like this is a fairly typical, non-explosive start (well, compared to M-XVIII of course). But I don't feel like I've heard from everyone, really. Only Eevee, Jimm, Galz, and Dsell have made much of an impression on me. Ash and raerae to a lesser extent. I have no idea if yuma is playing, for instance.

I think that I did though, which is to say that I think Jimmmm's line of thought towards Eevee might bear merit. But that was not the case that I saw you presenting earlier, although maybe it's the case you feel is stronger now (protip: it is). I'm waiting to here back from Eevee before damning him as scum though, since he hasn't posted since Jimmm did (I think?).

Even then, Jimmm's case is decent for D1 shenanigans, but I still hope to find something stronger by the time the lynch rolls around.

Well, okay. We aren't actually in disagreement then.

[Galzria]

Time to pass out.

But maybe one drink more?

Oooh, choices....

[Jimmmmm]

I'm going out now, so I'm going to Vote: Eevee to watch how he tries to get himself out of it.

[Robz888]

Time to pass out.

But maybe one drink more?

Oooh, choices....

Wait, wait... are you scum??

[Galzria]

Time to pass out.

But maybe one drink more?

Oooh, choices....

Wait, wait... are you scum??

No. If I were scum, I would be lynched already. I suuuuck at scum. The only reason I won in M-II way back forever ago is because nobody knew me yet, so I had no meta. It's the same reason I won Blitz-1 (barely). We had newer people in that game that didn't know me as well. Every other time I've been scum, I've gotten owned.

[Glooble]

I will be at work until 3 today. I read about the first 3 pages last night, but was too brain dead to form a response. Apologies.

[Eevee]

Oh look, I'm everyone's top scum read. Jolly!

Trying to address all the questions from mobile, if I fail do ask again.

@Jimmm
Dsell becoming almost obvtown is certainly good for my wincon in this game, it's just the way it happened. it wasn't ny in game mechanics, I sort of feel we were taking advantage of a slight mod oversight. I don't want to win that way.  I'm not saying blaming Dsell or saying he should have pm'd joth first or anything, it must have been bery exciting to think you can catch scum so early.

Jimmm's contradiction case has the makings of a classic day 1 mislynch. Why would I have to lie/contradict myself there if I was scum? I just realized I probably wouldn't have answered the question either way after hitting send, and posted that. Why would I possibly be intentionally dishonest there?

[liopoil]

To clear up my post awhile back; I am not saying we should necessarily lynch Jimmmm, I'm saying that we should be willing to lynch him on slightly less evidence than other people. I also was not saying that we want him to claim. Right after I said we could get him to claim I added that we don't know if that's better for scum or station. It's just another thing to consider.

[Jimmmmm]

Okay, here's my actual contradiction case, as opposed to just pointing it out:

Imagine these three scenarios:

-Town Eevee A sees Dsell's #25 and thinks "Oh yeah, that's right, we're Station or something. Well at least I can clear myself by checking my PM and saying that." He then almost immediately sees joth's #29, and is disappointed, leading him to say this:

I could have had time to answer and clear myself before Joth stepped in

(I'll acknowledge that that was taken slightly out of context, I'll get back to that)

-Town Eevee B sees Dsell's #25 and thinks "Well that would not be a great way to get Town cred, hopefully joth steps in." He then almost immediately sees joth's #29, and is relieved that he doesn't have to choose between giving some scummy-looking non-answer, or gaining some undeserved Town cred, leading him to say:

Fwiw, even if I got here before Joth, I wouldnt have answered because it would have felt like a very unfair way to gain a lot of town cred.

The point here is that Town Eevee knows if he's A or B when he reads #25, and he knows if he's disappointed or relieved when he reads #29.

-Scum Eevee sees Dsell's #25 and thinks "Uh oh how am I going to get out of this?" but then sees joth's #29 and thinks "whew well that was close, now all I have to say is that I would have said it and they won't know one way or another." He then has some time to think about the situation, and his meta, and how he would react as Town (because let's face it, we all think more about ourselves when we're scum). Nearly 3 hours later, he has come to the conclusion that Town Eevee is a standup guy who wouldn't try to take unwarranted Town cred and so he lets us know how sportsmanly Town Eevee really is. Unfortunately he's been so caught up in his thoughts of what he would do that he forgets what he has done, that is said that he would have cleared his name and taken the Town cred. So he ends up contradicting himself.

Now, I'm not saying I know 100% that Eevee is scum. I'll gladly listen to an argument for Town Eevee C who isn't quite sure how he would have reacted. But I certainly think it's the best day 1 case I've ever made.

[yuma]

Sparky, yuma, and Glooble:

When you get here, please comment on Eevee. And general opinions on the relatively new players perhaps (mc, rae, lio)?

good morning friends.

I'll answer your questions specifically and then provide some general thoughts in the next posts.

1. I don't really get the eevee case, although I rarely understand any day 1 cases. Even the one time we lynched scum (Grujah in MXI) the case on him was of little substance--it was the reaction to that case that was truly telling. But in this situation, the case on eevee is of little substance and I think his reaction to it has been fine. So nothing much there. People are in a hurry to give Dsell town credit through--I give him none. I am not saying he is surefire scum, but he certainly isn't surefire town.

2. The new players... mcmc (didn't like that he was suspicious of lio because lio was new and when mcmc was new he was scum--or was that a joke?--other than that not much there) raerae (I don't think she is always scummy. I read her as town in the blitz game and was really surprised when you lynched her. However I think a meta like her's is actually relatively easy to copy, because a lot of it revolves around her being hilarious and I am guessing she is just always hilarious, so she just has to be herself... so mostly I am hesitant to read her based of her meta and think analyzing votes/interactions with confirmed town/scum in later days will be more fruitful) lio (new guy seems to be thinking out of the box a bit ala Jimmm in MXVII--I like that, keep doing it)

[Jimmmmm]

Now, as promised, a further look at this quote:

No one comment on the Eevee situation until we've heard his response. Although Joth gave him the out now (justly, I agree). Still, he should respond before we talk about it.

What do you want me to say? I'm station-aligned. Kind of meh Dsell became almost obvtown because of something like this, but could be worse - I could have had time to answer and clear myself before Joth stepped in (well handled btw). Me claiming town was obviously just the running joke from blitz, also I didn't even remember what the exact wording was, not like I read my pm's that carefully. I still don't know what's my flavor name for example (because I've never seen any star trek so the name wouldn't mean anything to me).

Eevee is saying here that it's meh (ie unfortunate) from a game point of view that Dsell gets Town cred for this, and is also saying that it would have been unfortunate from a game point of view if he had been able to clear his name before joth stepped in. I initially read this as "I wish I had a chance to clear my name", so the fact that he actually means "It's good that I didn't get to clear my name" casts a little more doubt on my case. However, he's still saying that he would have cleared his name. And despite his saying this:

I just realized I probably wouldn't have answered the question either way after hitting send, and posted that.

it's 4 Eevee posts and 1 hour and 46 minutes (I failed at counting in my previous post) before Eevee finally says that he actually wouldn't've answered.

[mcmcsalot]

To yuma, I was making a jokae albeit a bad one about liopoil, I don't actually have a scum read on him. For that matter I don't have a town read on him either.

Jimm, after scratching my head over the eevee thing your latest post has finally made me understand it quite well. Upon understanding eevee does seem scummy, still not voting for him however just can't get out of blitz mode and I'm not thaat confident in anyone's scumminess.

[Jimmmmm]

mcmc (didn't like that he was suspicious of lio because lio was new and when mcmc was new he was scum--or was that a joke?--other than that not much there)

It was such a ridiculous thing to say it can't possibly not have been a joke, right?

[Jimmmmm]

To yuma, I was making a jokae albeit a bad one about liopoil

It made me lali (laugh a little inside).

[yuma]

Hi guys! stationed alligned stuffs is interesting. what I get from this is that Dsell is very likely town (station) and eevee is slightly more likely to be scum  than the rest of you. From jimmmmm's post. It seems like he has an important role that will save him from bieng lynched, or at least is planning on claiming to have an important role that will save him from bieng lynched. I would also be against claiming flavour stuff or anything for that matter.

I don't know if this counts as "outing" Jimm, but I think he phrased it in a way that makes it obvious to anyone paying attention, and un-obvious to new people like liopil. Scum almost certainly will figure it out if they haven't already. I believe Jimm is saying that he is Hated, which simply means it takes 1 less vote to kill him. In other words, he dies at L-1. Given that Joth mention there may be negative utility roles, this makes sense.

It means that all things being equal, scum are actually less likely to kill him in the night.

Interesting thing about being "hated" is that when I was hated in Ozle's game way back when you guys lynched me  Day 1 despite my claim because being hated was viewed as being a "scummy role" You all were saying things like, "no way Ozle would give hated to a townie, he must be scum." Since then we have seen one more hated at least (Insomniac was also town) and people are treating this hated as likely town. Is hated a townie role, from my experience it is, but your guys reaction to it way back when made me think otherwise.

[yuma]

Ash's town!meta at this point seems to be self-pity.

I prefer everyone else's pity.

you won't get any from me! Buck up private!

[Glooble]

Jimmmmm makes some very compelling points against eevee. A direct contradiction is always worth pursuing. However, I'm not getting a town vibe from jimmmmm at all. His caution against lynching him when he didn't have a single vote on him rad extremely scummy to me. If he is a town power role, he just help up a huge neon sign saying NIGHTKILL ME, and he seems too smart for thAt. Since I'm highly suspicious of jmmmmm, I'm less inclined to trust his arguments re: eevee. 

Oh yeah they sent me home early from work. I'm on the bus now posting from my phone.

[Glooble]

I mean, I'm on the runabout posting from my tricot dee. Got to get into the spirit of things.

[Glooble]

Tricorder. Damn autocorrect.

[Jimmmmm]

His caution against lynching him when he didn't have a single vote on him rad extremely scummy to me.

If/when the time came, I just wanted something to refer back to so that my claim wouldn't look like it came out of left field.