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Author Topic: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 7)  (Read 270559 times)

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liopoil

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2700 on: February 22, 2013, 05:29:45 pm »

This feels like one of those games where there are no mafia left, and the mod is just trolling us.

That's happened before???
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2701 on: February 22, 2013, 05:31:39 pm »

Only one person died Night 4. Why?

One answer is that there was only one scum team still alive on Night 4. This means the remaining scum is an MU.

If the remaining scum is an MU, that means the MU have Rolecop + Bomb + X vs. Neighbor + 1-shot Roleblocker.

I explicitly reject this as a possibility.

Okay, so there were two scum teams still alive on Night 4. One scum team did not shoot. I don't know why, you're right. But I feel better about it knowing that if the last maquis is you, you don't need to worry especially about killing ashersky on night 4. In fact, you want him to live to investigate and clear you.
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2702 on: February 22, 2013, 05:31:57 pm »

This feels like one of those games where there are no mafia left, and the mod is just trolling us.

That's happened before???

Not on hte forums, no. It's happened when I have played in real life. It ended in tears and anger.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2703 on: February 22, 2013, 05:34:13 pm »

Yeah Robz is either being really clever or he's Town.
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2704 on: February 22, 2013, 05:35:24 pm »

With the neighbor thing, yeah, you've just been really eager to establish yourself as a neighbor, and it's never meant much to me because Munch was a neighbor and could have fed you all the info I think. So I'm just not like super thrilled about that as acquitting evidence.

I mean, blah, it wouldn't surprise me at all if you are an IC and you're telling the truth about everything and... Jimm is scum? I don't know.

Or I could be way, way off on my assumption about the MU team, maybe Jo made a wildly imbalanced scum team, and I guess yuma could be our man there. I haven't even looked at the u possibilities very hard, frankly. At least if it's that, I won't say to myself,
"No! I should have figured it out!" I'll say, "Thanks a lot, mod."
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2705 on: February 22, 2013, 05:36:34 pm »

Yeah Robz is either being really clever or he's Town.

I'm definitely not being clever, so...
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2706 on: February 22, 2013, 05:37:06 pm »

I mean that in the sense that I am totally lost. Way more lost than I was when this day started. Legitimately, none of you seem like you could be scum.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2707 on: February 22, 2013, 05:39:47 pm »

If I'm scum, then I was doing everything in my power to make sure that ash kept investigating for another night, which is just plain stupidity. You really think that's more likely than yuma bussing hard or jo creating unequal scumteams?

I do agree though, every possible scenario seems really unlikely.
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liopoil

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2708 on: February 22, 2013, 05:40:11 pm »

I don't think that the imbalance of teams in that situation is necessarily less likely then scum not killing anyone N4. but if we're explicitly rejecting things as possibilities, I explicitly reject the possibility that I am scum.
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liopoil

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2709 on: February 22, 2013, 05:41:41 pm »

I'm actually leaning towards Yuma now. I really should finish my robz read so I can start on yuma. Robz: why you post so much??  ;)
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2710 on: February 22, 2013, 05:44:45 pm »

If our scum is MU: He shot someone who could have been an alternative suspect and was not an investigation threat to the MU team, instead of one of the two people cleared of being MU. The scumteams are also wildly imbalanced.

If our scum is maquis: He either blocked the lightning rod(or is the lightning rod and took no action against the cop who could have investigated him on night 4. On night 5, he killed that cop.

!
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liopoil

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2711 on: February 22, 2013, 05:46:43 pm »

If I'm scum, then I was doing everything in my power to make sure that ash kept investigating for another night, which is just plain stupidity.
Somebody must have done something stupid for us to be in the state that we are currently in. though I suppose that person probably didn't realize that they did something stupid... although perhaps it wasn't stupid because it confused us, which is likely good for scum.

okay, not stupid, but a bad move.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2712 on: February 22, 2013, 05:48:26 pm »

If our scum is MU: He shot someone who could have been an alternative suspect and was not an investigation threat to the MU team, instead of one of the two people cleared of being MU. The scumteams are also wildly imbalanced.

I don't think "cleared of being MU" would actually concern him terribly much, since he knows the teams are unbalanced and can simply argue that there can't possibly be another MU.
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liopoil

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2713 on: February 22, 2013, 05:50:15 pm »

if our scum is maquis they also either interacted very strangely with their partners, or are a godfather-1-shot-Jailkeeper-Neighbor.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2714 on: February 22, 2013, 05:52:39 pm »

If I'm scum, then I was doing everything in my power to make sure that ash kept investigating for another night, which is just plain stupidity.
Somebody must have done something stupid for us to be in the state that we are currently in. though I suppose that person probably didn't realize that they did something stupid... although perhaps it wasn't stupid because it confused us, which is likely good for scum.

okay, not stupid, but a bad move.

ash was always going to investigate either you or me, to either create an IC or catch scum. That's pretty obvious to me. There's no way I both Roleblock yuma and not kill ash and make sure ash gets a proper investigation done. Either liopoil becomes an IC, which is bad for scum, or I'm caught, which is terrible. Sure, if either of the other two are Maquis, you would think that they would probably have killed ash. But if I'm Maquis, I kill ash Night 4. Period.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2715 on: February 22, 2013, 05:56:07 pm »

if our scum is maquis they also either interacted very strangely with their partners

It's called bussing. It's a thing. The point is to gain Towncred, which seems to have worked. If one of me/yuma/Robz is Maquis, then either we bussed Glooble or Glooble bussed us. I agree that that's most likely to be yuma. He was going after Glooble from close to the start, so once Glooble gets lynched it makes yuma look really good. Robz had more of a subtle but decisive role in Glooble's lynch, which yeah could be interpreted as bussing, but it would have been the easiest thing in the world for him to stay on liopoil.
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liopoil

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2716 on: February 22, 2013, 06:32:58 pm »

I know what bussing is, but I mean, losing a partner hurts a lot. generally you would just want to stay away from them, maybe have a slight scumread on them and even vote! but I thought generally actively pushing the lynch is going too far, especially in multi-ball when even if people assume Yuma isn't maquis based on that he still could be scum.
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yuma

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2717 on: February 22, 2013, 07:12:32 pm »

Jimmmmm! thoughts on robz/Yuma!?

robz, I think you should tell us who you think is scum and why. You cited not wanting to give scum info when we no lynch, but I think it's more giving them WIFOM. If they NK player X they look bad, but they could say someone is trying to frame them. Or they could lynch player Y to make someone else look bad. Honestly, if we no lynch I'm fairly sure I'm the one that dies regardless.

That would surprise me, because I think you have got to be scum.

It just doesn't make any sense for yuma to be scum, given his record on Munch and Glooble. There's also the fact about the consistent misspelling, which could be a gambit, but is probably more likely not. I guess he could be MU, but I really don't think the last scum is MU, I'm explicitly ruling out the 2 maquis + 3 MU scenario, since I find it the most absurd thing of all.

Jimm's past fits him being scum with Munch and Glooble better, but then his claim was established early, and fits his flavor name, and doesn't make sense as scum.

You, liopoil, fit the scum persona perfectly alongside Munch and Glooble. I was 99% confident you were there partner, until ash cleared you. You must be a godfather. is it a tad ridiculous? Absolutely. Does your scum team seem significantly overpowered? Yes. But of all the things I have to try to reconcile in order to come up with an explanation, it's the least absurd. It's still absurd, but what can I say?

I don't really expect to convince yuma and jimm that we should lynch the IC, though. I've just barely, scarcely convinced myself.

Robz are you seriously considering lio as scum or are you just trying to make a point. I don't understand this. I mean, I can't even consider lio being a godfather. It is just too out there for me I think. In my opinion it is borderline bastard to have a godfather in a closed setup. In an open one sure... that makes sense and is part of the fun. But in a closed one? It would be a horrible implementation of it. It just doesn't work. And for someone who has been so adamant that joth wouldn't make an unbalanced game I have a hard time thinking that you are actually considering this. Because a godfather in a closed setup I think would just be about as ridiculously close to bastard as you can get w/o actually being bastard.

I am thinking that this is scum grasping at straws to try and deflect away from himself now that he is being focused on.

Lio obviously won't say it is true... Jimmm what do you think of this suggestion by Robz?
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liopoil

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2718 on: February 22, 2013, 07:15:17 pm »

note that if Jimmmmm is confident that I am town he can vote for robz, leave it there long enough for me to hammer if I was scum, then unvote, just to prove it to robz. Don't trust this from me though, if I was scum I would totally want you guys to test this :P
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yuma

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2719 on: February 22, 2013, 07:17:31 pm »

I'm actually leaning towards Yuma now. I really should finish my robz read so I can start on yuma. Robz: why you post so much??  ;)

I guess I am confused by this. I am confused how you cannot be having a scum read on Robz from the past events... Look, I am not trying to force your opinion, but you did ask for feedback and this is mine. I am confused. This is why I am confused. 1. Robz brings up the no lynch only when he starts to get pressure on himself and foresees his impending lynch. 2. Robz is scrambling in suggesting that you are a godfather, a suggestion that I find ridiculous. 3. And you kinda mention this, but in everything that I have reread of Robz, you are missing the crucial days and interactions with Glooble and Themunch in later days (as well as interactions with mcmc if he does happen to be MU). I think you will find these interactions as scummy as I found them as you start to read beyond day3.
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yuma

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2720 on: February 22, 2013, 07:18:49 pm »

note that if Jimmmmm is confident that I am town he can vote for robz, leave it there long enough for me to hammer if I was scum, then unvote, just to prove it to robz. Don't trust this from me though, if I was scum I would totally want you guys to test this :P

I would be up for doing this. I even offer myself up as the person to vote for as long as it is in the order of Robz/Jimmm and then lio last. If lio is scum/godfather/roleblocker/mason I give up. But he isn't. It is just something crazy Robz cooked up so we would stop talking about him.
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liopoil

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2721 on: February 22, 2013, 07:51:10 pm »

oh there are plenty of reasons to think robz is scum, and I would totally have a scumread on him if it weren't for the things he mentioned in his defense. I mean, there are tons of reasons to believe you are scum too, but you also have lots of good defenses. Like we've said, none of the scenarios make any sense. It's more that Yuma being scum seems more POSSIBLE, in that the weird things that would have to be true for you to be scum aren't as weird as for everything else.

Also, one more thing in regard to robz thinking I'm scum: role independent of alignment. Godfather is always a scum role. But off of that...:

can vigilante be a scum role? and beloved?

I'm only going to be able to post a few little posts tomorrow, no big analysis of anyone.
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liopoil

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2722 on: February 22, 2013, 07:53:24 pm »

deadline is march 4th. we have time... not that no lynch would be terrible.
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yuma

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2723 on: February 22, 2013, 09:25:07 pm »

oh there are plenty of reasons to think robz is scum, and I would totally have a scumread on him if it weren't for the things he mentioned in his defense. I mean, there are tons of reasons to believe you are scum too, but you also have lots of good defenses. Like we've said, none of the scenarios make any sense. It's more that Yuma being scum seems more POSSIBLE, in that the weird things that would have to be true for you to be scum aren't as weird as for everything else.

Also, one more thing in regard to robz thinking I'm scum: role independent of alignment. Godfather is always a scum role. But off of that...:

can vigilante be a scum role? and beloved?

I'm only going to be able to post a few little posts tomorrow, no big analysis of anyone.

There can be scum vigilantes... but they are generally considered to be over powered. Beloved Princess... I think the scum equivalent of that would basically be vengeful... a scum who when he is killed is able to kill another player during the twilight (so basically another night kill)...
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Robz888

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Re: Mafia XIX: Deep Space Nine Mafia (Day 6)
« Reply #2724 on: February 22, 2013, 09:46:30 pm »

Jimmmmm! thoughts on robz/Yuma!?

robz, I think you should tell us who you think is scum and why. You cited not wanting to give scum info when we no lynch, but I think it's more giving them WIFOM. If they NK player X they look bad, but they could say someone is trying to frame them. Or they could lynch player Y to make someone else look bad. Honestly, if we no lynch I'm fairly sure I'm the one that dies regardless.

That would surprise me, because I think you have got to be scum.

It just doesn't make any sense for yuma to be scum, given his record on Munch and Glooble. There's also the fact about the consistent misspelling, which could be a gambit, but is probably more likely not. I guess he could be MU, but I really don't think the last scum is MU, I'm explicitly ruling out the 2 maquis + 3 MU scenario, since I find it the most absurd thing of all.

Jimm's past fits him being scum with Munch and Glooble better, but then his claim was established early, and fits his flavor name, and doesn't make sense as scum.

You, liopoil, fit the scum persona perfectly alongside Munch and Glooble. I was 99% confident you were there partner, until ash cleared you. You must be a godfather. is it a tad ridiculous? Absolutely. Does your scum team seem significantly overpowered? Yes. But of all the things I have to try to reconcile in order to come up with an explanation, it's the least absurd. It's still absurd, but what can I say?

I don't really expect to convince yuma and jimm that we should lynch the IC, though. I've just barely, scarcely convinced myself.

Robz are you seriously considering lio as scum or are you just trying to make a point. I don't understand this. I mean, I can't even consider lio being a godfather. It is just too out there for me I think. In my opinion it is borderline bastard to have a godfather in a closed setup. In an open one sure... that makes sense and is part of the fun. But in a closed one? It would be a horrible implementation of it. It just doesn't work. And for someone who has been so adamant that joth wouldn't make an unbalanced game I have a hard time thinking that you are actually considering this. Because a godfather in a closed setup I think would just be about as ridiculously close to bastard as you can get w/o actually being bastard.

I am thinking that this is scum grasping at straws to try and deflect away from himself now that he is being focused on.

Lio obviously won't say it is true... Jimmm what do you think of this suggestion by Robz?

Yuma, two things.

Yes, I'm suggesting some wild things. We lose if we lynch me, sorry, I know you don't believe that, but it's the truth. Am I grasping at straws, maybe. Again, we lose if we lynch me.

Second, part of the crazy theory I'm grasping about liopoil stems fromt he fact that I have a hard time imagining either you or Jimm as scum. I have implauisiblities to explain no matter which route I go. There is no obvious. There's no un-obvious but sensible answer. Every answer has a gaping flaw. The implausibility of godfather is the gaping flaw with this strategy. That said, I don't tihnk it's quite so bastard as you mention. We know any role could be in this game. So maybe it was our faults for not considering this earlier.
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