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[WanderingWinder]

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20121230-113801-19ad630c.html
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20121230-114402-6b65b177.html
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20121230-115019-65422c7e.html

Played these three games against MrEevee (later on he took 5 in a row off me - ick), after I was unsatisfied by the first (They're all the same kingdom).

Here's the set: cards in supply: Embassy, Feast, Fool's Gold, Fortune Teller, King's Court, Saboteur, Trading Post, Tribute, Vault, and Wharf



Basically, here's what went down. He is Wharf/FG, pretty basically. Well, it's a basic strategy, but it is one of the very very best 2 card combos. And I am Wharf+KC+Saboteur, with Feast and maybe fortune teller and maaaaaaybe embassy. The idea is to mass up on Wharves and KCs to draw everything pronto, then get saboteurs to knock out his deck, which is especially potent because his economy is built up in 2-cost cards. Fortune teller gives King-able money and can nail down provinces for me. Feast *should* get me a slightly faster accumulation of the precious wharves I need, and later on I can king it to gain triple things. Embassy can potentially help me draw, most importantly to pinpoint colliding KCs with the other actions I need, though giving him silver is double-edged - it slows down his FG train, but protects him from saboteur. And of course, Wharf is generally better anyway.

So the first game goes dreadfully - I open silver/feast, and I don't get a single $5 on the first reshuffle, and then I'm unable to connect a KC with a wharf until turn 20.

The other two are much closer, but I still feel that the engine SHOULD turn out good here.

There are a number of important questions, though. Is the feast start good? Should the engine player get FGs to deny the opponent? If so, when and how many? Should he prefer them to silver from the start? Should the engine player get Fortune Teller? When? When should he get late-game feasts? When do the Saboteur buys come in? When should FG be given up for gold? Is there a way for Money player to put pressure on for a three-pile ending, say with estates (and FG and Wharf)? Or Duchies?
And on and on and on.

What say you?

[DG]

I put this quickly through the sim and it looks like feast/fool's gold for both players and then it was still unclear whether you should switch to the multiple king's courts with saboteur/wharf. The saboteur deck probably has the edge with best play, provided it competes for fool's gold, but the simple fool's gold rush will be much easier to deliver. I'm guessing you only take a feast before turn 3 and you keep taking wharves ahead of embassies.

[WanderingWinder]

I put this quickly through the sim and it looks like feast/fool's gold for both players and then it was still unclear whether you should switch to the multiple king's courts with saboteur/wharf. The saboteur deck probably has the edge with best play, provided it competes for fool's gold, but the simple fool's gold rush will be much easier to deliver. I'm guessing you only take a feast before turn 3 and you keep taking wharves ahead of embassies.

Forget the sim - this is too complicated tactically...

[Robz888]

I am not sure about this, but I'd think you have to contest FGs no matter what your eventual plan is. The thing is, FG hits $7 pretty quickly anyway, if you do want those Kings. It's true you can't King an FG, but you can't King a Silver either, and you are going to have to be buying money here no matter what (it's not like you have Peddlers or Bazaars or something).

So maybe start with a fairly typical FG/Wharf thing, but make sure to get KC ASAP, hope to King your Wharf, and then go the Saboteur/Fortune Teller route?

The big problem with the strategy that diverts to KC/Sab/FT is lack of +action. There's nothing you can King for the village effect. Which means you have to do King-King-Wharf-Fortune Teller-Saboteur, you know what I mean? I think that maybe just slows you down enough (or makes you reliant on shuffle luck or something), that Wharf/FG by itself is the way to go.

[WanderingWinder]

I am not sure about this, but I'd think you have to contest FGs no matter what your eventual plan is. The thing is, FG hits $7 pretty quickly anyway, if you do want those Kings. It's true you can't King an FG, but you can't King a Silver either, and you are going to have to be buying money here no matter what (it's not like you have Peddlers or Bazaars or something).

So maybe start with a fairly typical FG/Wharf thing, but make sure to get KC ASAP, hope to King your Wharf, and then go the Saboteur/Fortune Teller route?

The big problem with the strategy that diverts to KC/Sab/FT is lack of +action. There's nothing you can King for the village effect. Which means you have to do King-King-Wharf-Fortune Teller-Saboteur, you know what I mean? I think that maybe just slows you down enough (or makes you reliant on shuffle luck or something), that Wharf/FG by itself is the way to go.

But with Kinged wharves from the previous turn, you're likely to be able to King King wharf this turn, and then go from there. Once you get it started, anyway.