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[ashersky]

Welcome to Blitz Mafia X: The Veteran Games

This one will blow their minds.

Set-up Information: This game will use an open, advanced set-up modified by ashersky, and is for nine players.  The set-up will be revealed in stages, with a full reveal 24-hours before game start, currently planned for Monday, January 14.  Some players have been auto-enrolled for this game.  The remaining slots will be available by random drawing for any player who types "/in" in this thread.  Note, at least six games's worth of experience is required to play in this game (exceptions may be made, so ask).

Players: (Confirmed Players are Bolded)

1 - Robz888 (Robz)
2 - Eevee
3 - Galzria (Galz)
4 - Insomniac (Insom) - Innocent Child, Nightkilled N1
5 - jotheonah (joth, jo)
6 - Jimmmmm (Jim, Jimm, Jimmm) - Vanilla Townie, First Lynch of D1
7 - TheMunch (Munch) - Vanilla Townie, First Lynch of D2
8 - Cuzz - Vanilla Townie, Second Lynch of D1
9 - mcmcsalot (mcmc, mom salon) - Vanilla Townie, Second Lynch of D1

6-9 Pool: Archetype, Grujah

Co-Mods: Voltgloss, Jorbles, yuma

Lynches: D1, First Lynch

Blitz Mafia Standard Ruleset

The Golden Rule:

Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.

General Gameplay and Etiquette:

1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind.  Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it.  Mafia members may communicate at night and during the confirmation stage.
3. Dead players cannot post in their QTs.
4. Do not edit or delete posts.  We don't want some players having more information than others.  If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post.

Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:

1. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName.  Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax!  Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
2. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
3. You may NOT Vote: No Lynch.
4. Whomever has the most votes currently on them at lynch deadline is lynched.
5. If there is a tie at deadline, the player with the most "unique" votes will be lynched.  "Unique" votes are counted by the mod concurrently with live votes, and reflect the number of different voters that have voted for that player.
6. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate.  Further votes will also be ignored.
7. Once a player is lynched, the game enters twilight until a mod locks the thread; all players, including the one who was lynched, may continue to post during twilight.
8. Once you are dead, by any manner, you may no longer post.  For a lynched player, this means as of thread lock or flip post.
9. This game will have 24-hour days and 6-hour nights.


Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, colored text is reserved for the Mod.  No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mod privately.  Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mod may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently.  Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed.  These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mod so that they don’t get missed.
5. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, up to and including a Modkill.



Helpful Links:

• Main Wiki Page
  
  
• Newbie Guide
  
  
• Frequently Asked Questions
  
  
• Commonly Used Abbreviations
  
  
• Mafia Theory

TO CLARIFY, I AM NOT A MODERATOR OF F.DS IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.  IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS GAME, I AM MODERATING THAT THE RULES ARE FOLLOWED AND HIDDEN ACTIONS ARE COMPLETED PROPERLY.

[ashersky]

Setup Information: Double Day Unlimited, but modified by ashersky.

9 Players:
7 Town
2 Mafia

Game-Specific Mechanics:

Note, all mechanics/rules listed here supersede the ones in the standard ruleset above.

1.  This game has a daystart.
2.  This game has double days.  Day ends when two lynches have occurred.
3.  This game has unlimited voting.  Players may vote for as many players as they want, concurrently.  Players may not cast more than one vote per player.
4.  The player who casts the hammer vote on a mafia lynch will be vengekilled.  This cannot be avoided.
5.  Town wins when there are no more mafia alive.
6.  Mafia wins when they control half the town, or that situation cannot be averted.

Game-specific Rule Changes:

1.  unvote is not a valid command.  However, unvote: playername or unvote: all are.
2.  vote: all is a valid command.  This will self-vote.
3.  Mods will be strict when counting votes.  Boldface, a space between the : and the name, and clear names are required.  See the player list for accepted name variations.
4.  No unique votes will be counted, and no hidden democracy will be implemented in the case of a tie.  If there is a tie at the deadline, all players tied will be lynched.
5.  Posting after death is strictly forbidden, and will result in a modkill of a random teammate.  This means absolutely no posts after the flip has been posted, as that ends twilight.  This really can end the game, especially if mafia break the rule, so really, follow this rule.
6.  Vote counts will be cleared after the first lynch of the day.

Role PMs:

All players will receive one of the following three PMs:

PM 1:

Role: Vanilla Townie

Abilities:
Your votes are your weapon, and they are potent.  Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.  You are the key to ensuring the town's safety.  Use them well.

Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

PM 2:

Role: Mafia Goon

Abilities:
You are like a Vanilla Townie, only Evil.  Therefore, during the day, your votes are your weapon, and they are potent.
Factional communication:  During the confirmation stage, and at night, you may communicate here: QT Link
Factional kill:  Each night phase, you may perform the factional kill.

Win condition:
You win when you control 50% of the town, or nothing can stop that from happening.

PM 3:

Role: Innocent Child

Abilities:
Innocence:  You will be mod-confirmed as town in the Day 1 opening post.
Your votes are your weapon, and they are potent.  Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.  You are the key to ensuring the town's safety.  Use them well.

Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

[Galzria]

What's this? I don't even...

Uh-oh.

I demand more setup information!

[jotheonah]

Ok, I'll bite.

[Eevee]

didnt read, am in.

[Eevee]

oh i was auto-inned and the setup is a mystery. i really like you ashersky!

[Eevee]

oh i was auto-inned and the setup is a mystery. i really like you ashersky!

and i mean really really like you. awesome squared!

[Robz888]

Confirming auto in, thanks!

[Archetype]

I think I've been in enough games, of you count BM and RMM.

Let's see, IIRC: BMIV(?), BMV(?), ZMII, ZMIII, ZMV(?), Chicken Mafia, Helsinki, RMM3, Arcana II.

So, /in. Seems like this is going to be fun! But it's strange seeing your Avatar as Young Witch. So use to Shanty Town.

[ashersky]

So use to Shanty Town.

/fixed.  I was trying something new, given I got killed as Mew(2).

[yuma]

bump to follow at least...

will only be in if this is a semi-blitz game in that the days will be at least 48 hours long (my schedule won't allow for me to be in a game that has 24 hours as it wouldn't be fair to my teammates) and doesn't have a Ninja start.

Don't change the setup on my account, but if it fits these stipulations I would love to be in. If not I will just follow it from a safe distance.

[ashersky]

I would welcome discussion on day length before the game starts.  The only day lengths I consider viable for Blitz are 24 and 48 hours.

Current plan is 24-hour days and 6-hour nights (sorry yuma).  I could be convinced to double that, but I really like the pressure and stress that comes with short deadlines.  This game has ample notice for folks to plan ahead (IRL emergencies notwithstanding), and there will be no ninja start.

Stay tuned for changes to Post #2 over the coming weeks.  Things will get added often as teasers.

[Jimmmmm]

Am I right in assuming that since this is Blitz X, Blitz IX will run between now and then?

[ashersky]

Am I right in assuming that since this is Blitz X, Blitz IX will run between now and then?

I believe SFS will be running that, yes.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Am I right in assuming that since this is Blitz X, Blitz IX will run between now and then?

I believe SFS will be running that, yes.

Ok, I see the issue now, with the announced-well-in-advance start date.

I'll start signups for ZMIX in the next few days, and will aim for a 12/31 (Monday) start.
Will crosspost this (or similar) in that other thread where I said I was taking a few days off.

[jotheonah]

I agreed to blitz on the condition that it would happen while I was still on holiday break. When will this start?

[Insomniac]

Confirmed, thanks for the slot held, Blitz has easily become my favourite form of forum mafia.

[shraeye]

I'm thinking about it.  Too many more blitz games and I'm sure I'll get an ulcer.

[Grujah]

uh-oh.. got an exam 15th.. hmm.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I'm thinking about it.  Too many more blitz games and I'm sure I'll get an ulcer.

Shreaye, if you play, I'll play.

[yuma]

I'm thinking about it.  Too many more blitz games and I'm sure I'll get an ulcer.

Stress doesn't cause peptic ulcers. Heliobacter pylori (a bacteria) does. This guy received a noble prize for figuring it out!

Meaning that you can still play stressful old mafia and not worry about ulcers! You might still have to worry about headaches, inability to sleep at night, involuntary twitching, spasms and swearing and cold sweats....

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I'm thinking about it.  Too many more blitz games and I'm sure I'll get an ulcer.

Stress doesn't cause peptic ulcers. Heliobacter pylori (a bacteria) does. This guy received a noble prize for figuring it out!

Meaning that you can still play stressful old mafia and not worry about ulcers! You might still have to worry about headaches, inability to sleep at night, involuntary twitching, spasms and swearing and cold sweats....

All of those maladies can be ameliorated with the proper bourbon.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Am I right in assuming that since this is Blitz X, Blitz IX will run between now and then?

I believe SFS will be running that, yes.

Signups for ZM9 are available. Monday (12/31 start) Starts Wednesday Jan 2 at 09:00 forum time.

[ashersky]

I've added folks to the 6-9 pool.  The game starts on January 14th.

Small spoilers trickling into Post #2.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

What the hell.

/IN

Off to read spoilers.

[Galzria]

What the hell.

/IN

Off to read spoilers.

He lies. There are no spoilers. You should've checked for the PINL tag. Bastard Mod is Bastard.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Now off to the wiki abbreviations page. DONT TELL ME.

[Galzria]

Now off to the wiki abbreviations page. DONT TELL ME.

Haha!

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Now off to the wiki abbreviations page. DONT TELL ME.

Haha!

Ok, can't find it in the wiki glossary, or in the f.DS FAQ, and <hangs head in shame> I've been told before what it means, and <hangs head even lower in shame> where I could have found it.

Enlighten me, oh wiser one.

[Galzria]

Now off to the wiki abbreviations page. DONT TELL ME.

Haha!

Ok, can't find it in the wiki glossary, or in the f.DS FAQ, and <hangs head in shame> I've been told before what it means, and <hangs head even lower in shame> where I could have found it.

Enlighten me, oh wiser one.

Official f.DS Mafia Lingo

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Which is not to be confused with Budweiser One, the airship.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Now off to the wiki abbreviations page. DONT TELL ME.

Haha!

Ok, can't find it in the wiki glossary, or in the f.DS FAQ, and <hangs head in shame> I've been told before what it means, and <hangs head even lower in shame> where I could have found it.

Enlighten me, oh wiser one.

Official f.DS Mafia Lingo

Damn it Jimmmm, I'm a doctor not a linguist.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

I am cunning, though.

[Voltgloss]

I am cunning, though.

+69

[ashersky]

There is too a spoiler.  I confirmed the number of PMs today.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

There is too a spoiler.  I confirmed the number of PMs today.

Well, kind of not.  There were 9 slots for players, from which we can infer that 9 PMs would go out.  I guess you confirmed that the number of players would not change, but still.

[Voltgloss]

There is too a spoiler.  I confirmed the number of PMs today.

Well, kind of not.  There were 9 slots for players, from which we can infer that 9 PMs would go out.  I guess you confirmed that the number of players would not change, but still.

I think ash means the number of different PMs that are available in the game (3).

[yuma]

you seem to have a big enough pool to fill all remaining slots without me. I will certainly /out now so that there will be no need for a 24/48 hr debate.  but if someone in the future wants to run a 48 hr semi-blitz game I would be very interested!

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

you seem to have a big enough pool to fill all remaining slots without me. I will certainly /out now so that there will be no need for a 24/48 hr debate.  but if someone in the future wants to run a 48 hr semi-blitz game I would be very interested!

Yuma, I dont know if it helps, but the opening day of ZM9 will be about 31 hours, with 24-hours days to follow.

[Jimmmmm]

Now off to the wiki abbreviations page. DONT TELL ME.

Haha!

Ok, can't find it in the wiki glossary, or in the f.DS FAQ, and <hangs head in shame> I've been told before what it means, and <hangs head even lower in shame> where I could have found it.

Enlighten me, oh wiser one.

Official f.DS Mafia Lingo

Damn it Jimmmm, I'm a doctor not a linguist.

Sorry what? I'm confused... 

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

It was a joke, from a dinosaur.  The reference is to the original Star Trek, circa 1966, which is, I suspect, before your time.  I couldn't resist the spelling of Jim.

[Jimmmmm]

It was a joke, from a dinosaur.  The reference is to the original Star Trek, circa 1966, which is, I suspect, before your time.  I couldn't resist the spelling of Jim.

Oh well in that case +1. FYI I don't really watch Star Trek but I would have understood "He's dead Jimmmmm" or "There's life Jimmmmm but not as we know it (not as we know it, not as we know it)".

[Galzria]

It was a joke, from a dinosaur.  The reference is to the original Star Trek, circa 1966, which is, I suspect, before your time.  I couldn't resist the spelling of Jim.

Nah, no dinosaur there.

[yuma]

you seem to have a big enough pool to fill all remaining slots without me. I will certainly /out now so that there will be no need for a 24/48 hr debate.  but if someone in the future wants to run a 48 hr semi-blitz game I would be very interested!

Yuma, I dont know if it helps, but the opening day of ZM9 will be about 31 hours, with 24-hours days to follow.

it does a bit, but probably not enough. Really I am ok playing in a 24 hour game, but I don't think the others playing with me would be (they might say differently, but really they would hate it). I would put whatever team I was on at a severe disadvantage, would likely not be around for deadlines and would constantly be playing catch up. It just wouldn't work. But thanks!

[Jimmmmm]

Since I'm modding Blitz IX and won't want to miss playing both of them, I'll /in if there's room.

[mcmcsalot]

/in too excited to start actually playing these
edit: whoops I was asked to join blitz 9 not this one. Oh well the /in stands, not sure if I fit the veteran qualification however.

[ashersky]

New spoiler added.

[Jimmmmm]

Votes??

[ashersky]

More teasers available.

[jotheonah]

6.  Mafia wins when they control have the town.

Yoda grammar?

[ashersky]

6.  Mafia wins when they control have the town.

Yoda grammar?

Whoops.  Fixed.  Should say half.

[ashersky]

The ship was the largest ever built.  The human experiments-turned-reality-tv had increased their funding exponentially, and they had decided to cement their legacy with the greatest competition yet.

"Captain, we've passed the halfway point in our journey.  Should we deploy another teaser, sir?"

"Absolutely, ensign."

The captain drummed his fingers on the armrest of the captain's chair.  And he grinned.

New teaser added.

[Galzria]

Well THAT is different.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Question:  Is there a potential (or actual) conflict between Item #5 under "Game Mechanics" in the OP, (where it says the town's wincon is to kill all the mafia), and the fact that you have highlighted in red the word "threats" in the last line of the VT's role PM (which to me intimates the possibility of a slightly different wincon for town)?

[ashersky]

Question:  Is there a potential (or actual) conflict between Item #5 under "Game Mechanics" in the OP, (where it says the town's wincon is to kill all the mafia), and the fact that you have highlighted in red the word "threats" in the last line of the VT's role PM (which to me intimates the possibility of a slightly different wincon for town)?

No.  Red for style only.  Plus, red = mafia.

[ashersky]

Another rule modification for your perusal.

[Jimmmmm]

Well that's interesting, but is it really necessary? Have you seen this problem before?

[ashersky]

Well that's interesting, but is it really necessary? Have you seen this problem before?

Yes.  No.

[Jimmmmm]

Oh I see.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

T minus 7 days and counting.

[mcmcsalot]

Going to /out for now if I have enough time when this is coming up I may join then. Love this game but am really stuck for time right now.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Ash, take me out of the pool for the last slots please.

I'm out.

[shraeye]

Can you make my /in tentative?  I'm really overworked right now, and am worried about freetime.

[ashersky]

Can you make my /in tentative?  I'm really overworked right now, and am worried about freetime.

Yep.

[ashersky]

All, many more spoilers to the set-up added to Post 2.

This is a reminder that the game will start on Monday, the 14th.  Sign-ups will close on Saturday or so, so I can roll to see who gets in the game, and then roll the roles.  PMs will go out Sunday, the 13th.  The entire set-up will be posted at that time, and the thread will be locked.  Everyone will have 24 hours to review the set-up and think about the game.  Mafia will have that time to talk in their QT.

I do urge signing up, as I believe this will be the most intense game of mafia we've had on f.ds to date.  It is complex and advanced, and offers (in my opinion) the largest strategic space we've ever had for both mafia and town as teams, and as individuals.  You will need to truly contemplate what you are doing in the game, so much so that I will be surprised if there is any RVS at all.

If you aren't playing, ask for the speccy QT.  There will be plenty to discuss!

[Eevee]

I'm going to guess power roles won't have the same type of votes VT's / goons have.

[Insomniac]

I'm going to guess power roles won't have the same type of votes VT's / goons have.

Everyone is IC/Goon/VT

[Cuzz]

/in

[Galzria]

I'm going to guess power roles won't have the same type of votes VT's / goons have.

No, you just only get a single vote. (maybe 2 each, with double the required # to lynch). Hence why "unvote" isn't a valid command, RVS won't exist in it's normal format, and the PM's say "your votes are potent."

[jotheonah]

I continue to wonder why I, a player who is not by any definition or metric good at this game, and not a habitual blitzer, got one of the auto-spots and a personal invitation to play.

[Insomniac]

I continue to wonder why I, a player who is not by any definition or metric good at this game, and not a habitual blitzer, got one of the auto-spots and a personal invitation to play.

Nonsense.

[Galzria]

I continue to wonder why I, a player who is not by any definition or metric good at this game, and not a habitual blitzer, got one of the auto-spots and a personal invitation to play.

To quote Insomniac:

"Nonsense"

Furthermore, this game isn't just ANY old blitz game. It's a specially designed one by Ashersky that auto-inned ALL of the very, very old-school players. True to it's title for perhaps the first time in blitz history, this game was MADE to be "The Veteran Game". Whatever mechanic or reason there is behind it, I don't know. But there's little doubt that it wasn't intentional.

[Eevee]

Nonsense indeed Joth, you are just as good or bad at this as the rest of us who got auto-inned. Going to be cool to get to play blitz with you though!

[Robz888]

I continue to wonder why I, a player who is not by any definition or metric good at this game, and not a habitual blitzer, got one of the auto-spots and a personal invitation to play.

Maybe you're a great scum player and just haven't had enough tries at it.

[Ozle]

Is this some sort of blitz bastard mafia?!

[Voltgloss]

It's blitz AWESOME mafia, is what it is

[ashersky]

Is this some sort of blitz bastard mafia?!

There are no "bastard" elements in this game.  PINL.

[ashersky]

Wish Frisk was around.  He'd love this game.

[TheMunch]

/in

I want to be in more blitz games

[Insomniac]

Blitz is my favourite format

[ashersky]

Blitz is my favourite format

Your mind will be blown with this one.  I'm more excited about this game than any other ever.

[Insomniac]

Blitz is my favourite format

Your mind will be blown with this one.  I'm more excited about this game than any other ever.

more spoilers time?

[ashersky]

Blitz is my favourite format

Your mind will be blown with this one.  I'm more excited about this game than any other ever.

more spoilers time?

Dunno.  I like the speculation.

[ashersky]

Sign ups close in the next 12 hours.  I will use random.org to determine who get the last spots and PM everyone to confirm.  Full reveal and PMs go out in 24 hours, games starts in 48.

[mcmcsalot]

Ahhhh /in let the fates decide whether I have the time to play or not.

[shraeye]

Got no time; gotta out.

[ashersky]

Updated.

Shraeye, you'll be sad to miss it.

[Ozle]

Favouritism in Mafia games now?! Haha

[jotheonah]

This is the one we're supposed to be drink for, right?

[ashersky]

This is the one we're supposed to be drink for, right?

No.  But you can.

[Eevee]

 

[ashersky]

Sign-ups closed.  4 last spots awarded by random.org.  Awaiting confirmation.  Full set-up and PMs in12 hours.

[ashersky]

Also, thread locked.

[ashersky]

Still waiting for one confirmation (mom salon).  No updates or PMs until that happens.

[ashersky]

Roles are assigned.  Mcmcsalot has been updated via SMS.  If he can confirm he's playing, I'll get PMs out and do the full set-up reveal.

If he confirms he cannot play, I'll reach out to others who had signed up before and see if they'll join.

[ashersky]

Oh, unlocked for a bit.

[ashersky]

PMs are going out now.  Set-up will be posted shortly.

[ashersky]

Role PMs have been sent.  Confirm by PM only.

I am now going to work on Post #2.  Some rules in Post #1 will be contradicted.  Post #2 overrules Post #1.

I will note now, and again in a bit, that any and all rules clarification questions should be PMed to me.  I will collected and answer them in a FAQ style post before the game starts.

[ashersky]

Full set-up available in Post #2.

Thread is LOCKED.

[ashersky]

Captain, we're approaching Earth on their moonside.  Shall we enter geosynch?

Do it, ensign.

The captain pulled out the sealed glass tube and twisted the top.  He pulled out the datachip that contained his orders.  It had only one line.

PRESS THE RED BUTTON.

Hey ensign?  Has anyone ever pressed the red button before?

No sir.

The captain shrugged, then pressed the button.

The full crew heard a quiet whirring of motors and gears.  The bay area was tranforming.  The captain called it up on screen so they could all watch.  Dirt and trees sprung up, terraforming microbes invisibly doing their work.  It was surprisingly fast, and complete.

A circular field, surrounding by trees, with a picnic table in the middle.  Camouflaged cameras floated in the air.

Sir...it's beautiful.

Yes ensign, it is.  And it'll be bloody.

[ashersky]

Thread still locked, momentarily.  A rules clarification will be posted, then opening day flavor.

[ashersky]

I received only one question over the past 24 hours.

What happens when the first person gets lynched during the day?

A 3-step process is in place for handling the first lynch of the day.  All mods are aware of this procedure and will follow it.  This procedure is in place to ensure dead players have fair warning before they are "officially dead" and don't post, causing a modkill.

Once the hammer vote has been cast, the following will happen:

1.  A final vote count will be posted highlighting the lynched player.
2.  A separate mod post will be posted stating "Mod will post the flip imminently. This is your warning that twilight is ending."
3.  The flip will be posted.  If the lynched player was mafia, the hammerer will also be killed in this post.  From that post on, any player who flipped in that post MAY NOT POST.

Vote counts are reset after the first lynch of the day.


Please remember that, with all of the rules modifications, mods will have a busy time keeping up with the votes.  Be sure to point out errors so we can fix them.

[ashersky]

The lights turned on in the arena.  It looked like a sun.  Nine humans woke up around a picnic table centered in a field.

Greetings, humans.  Ignore the deja vu.  Your names are Robz888, Eevee, Galzria, Insomniac, jotheonah, Jimmmmm, theMunch, Cuzz, and mcmcsalot.  You must find the mafia among you, and you must do it through death.

We trust in your abilities.  So much so, that you have unlimited votes, and we will wait for two deaths before putting you into stasis.  Find the two mafia hidden among you.  Listen to Insomniac, for he is an Innocent among you.

But be careful.  We have implanted the evil ones with explosives.  The good among you will need to make a sacrifice for the survival of humanity.

Oh yes, I forgot.  We're hovering over Earth.  And we will destroy it if you fail.

Day 1 has begun.  With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.0:

Robz888 (0) -
Eevee (0) -
Galzria (0) -
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (0) -
Jimmmmm (0) -
TheMunch (0) -
Cuzz (0) -
mcmcsalot (0) -

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 4:30 p.m. forum time.

[Eevee]

This is the good die young.

[Insomniac]

So yea...I'm the IC again. and I'm gonna try to not blow it like I have been recently.

[Insomniac]

For obvious reasons I will NOT be the hammer vote on any player, and any player attempting to make me the hammer/asking me to hammer is scum.

[Eevee]

So, conflicting. On the other hand I feel like trying to feel it out and being careful with my votes given it's a new setup. On the other hand, no games never get anywhere unless people actually commit to voting for the people they find scummy, so eh. But, the first half of day 1 should run pretty close to how it normally would, except no "lock" situation will ever be reached which never was an issue in blitz in the first place.

[Robz888]

New setup! Should I vote for everyone, and then unvote myself and Insomniac?

[Robz888]

That way, I vote for scum at least.

[Eevee]

Has someone given this a lot of thought?

[Insomniac]

@Ash what happens if 4 people are at l-1 and I hammer all 4 with a "Vote: All"

[Robz888]

@Ash what happens if 4 people are at l-1 and I hammer all 4 with a "Vote: All"

I think it's a tie, and they all die. Right? No that can't be. Or else we could just do this, you could kill all non-you people, and you win.

[Insomniac]

@Ash what happens if 4 people are at l-1 and I hammer all 4 with a "Vote: All"

I think it's a tie, and they all die. Right? No that can't be. Or else we could just do this, you could kill all non-you people, and you win.

Thats why I want to know because if we can do that great. If not I want to know what happens.

[Robz888]

@Ash what happens if 4 people are at l-1 and I hammer all 4 with a "Vote: All"

I think it's a tie, and they all die. Right? No that can't be. Or else we could just do this, you could kill all non-you people, and you win.

Thats why I want to know because if we can do that great. If not I want to know what happens.

The mafia would vengekill you, though. So... tie?

[Insomniac]

@Ash what happens if 4 people are at l-1 and I hammer all 4 with a "Vote: All"

I think it's a tie, and they all die. Right? No that can't be. Or else we could just do this, you could kill all non-you people, and you win.

Thats why I want to know because if we can do that great. If not I want to know what happens.

The mafia would vengekill you, though. So... tie?

TECHNICALLY No, the town wins when all threats to the town are eliminated which happens before the mafia gets a vengekill.

[ashersky]

@Ash what happens if 4 people are at l-1 and I hammer all 4 with a "Vote: All"

They would all die.  If there were mafia among the 4, you would also die.

Also, I think that breaks the point of the game, so that's lame.

[Insomniac]

@Ash what happens if 4 people are at l-1 and I hammer all 4 with a "Vote: All"

They would all die.  If there were mafia among the 4, you would also die.

Also, I think that breaks the point of the game, so that's lame.

Am I correct in my understanding that if all non me people were at l-1 and I hammered everyone town wins before I get vengekilled?

[ashersky]

TECHNICALLY No, the town wins when all threats to the town are eliminated which happens before the mafia gets a vengekill.

This is a good point, and is something I inadvertently left off the win condition that should have been there.  Generally speaking, town's win condition implicitly (or explicitly) includes the "someone left alive" clause.  That should have been explicit in the PMs, given the set up.  Apologies.

I'll confer with the mods, but I'll just suggest not doing it.

@Ash what happens if 4 people are at l-1 and I hammer all 4 with a "Vote: All"

They would all die.  If there were mafia among the 4, you would also die.

Also, I think that breaks the point of the game, so that's lame.

Am I correct in my understanding that if all non me people were at l-1 and I hammered everyone town wins before I get vengekilled?

You would die and no one wins.  And Earth is destroyed.

Again, I'll confer with the mods, as we didn't foresee this being a plausible option.

[Robz888]

@Ash what happens if 4 people are at l-1 and I hammer all 4 with a "Vote: All"

They would all die.  If there were mafia among the 4, you would also die.

Also, I think that breaks the point of the game, so that's lame.

Am I correct in my understanding that if all non me people were at l-1 and I hammered everyone town wins before I get vengekilled?

Insomniac, here's what you need to do. You need to pick someone who you don't think is mafia. That's it: just find one person who isn't mafia. We'll call him Player X. Then, order everyone else to vote everyone EXCEPT you and Player X. Then, Player X hammers everyone except you and himself. The mafia vengekill Player X, you are the only person alive, and town wins. If Player X is town.

[Insomniac]

So I suppose the EASY method then is to decide on ONE townie along with me, and hammer everyone except that person and myself

[mcmcsalot]

Insome leave yourself out of everything, mafia has to vengekill the hammer, I'll be happy to lay the hammer on everyone but insom and get vengekiled. Then insom lives and we win?

[mcmcsalot]

Ill self vote along with it if it matters

[Insomniac]

MCMC makes even more sense.

[Robz888]

MCMC makes even more sense.

Wait. Yes, if the hammering player hammers himself, too, the mafia can't vengekill anyone. And Insomniac lives, and town wins.

Ash, I think the setup needs remediation.

[Insomniac]

Guaranteed Town Win:

Robz Votes All: Unvotes Insom
Galz Votes All: Unvotes Insom
Eevee Votes All: Unvotes Insom
Joth Votes All: Unvotes Insom
MCMC Votes All Hammering everyone who isn't me. The mafia attempt to vengekill mcmc but he's already dead.

[Galzria]

@Ash what happens if 4 people are at l-1 and I hammer all 4 with a "Vote: All"

They would all die.  If there were mafia among the 4, you would also die.

Also, I think that breaks the point of the game, so that's lame.

Am I correct in my understanding that if all non me people were at l-1 and I hammered everyone town wins before I get vengekilled?

Insomniac, here's what you need to do. You need to pick someone who you don't think is mafia. That's it: just find one person who isn't mafia. We'll call him Player X. Then, order everyone else to vote everyone EXCEPT you and Player X. Then, Player X hammers everyone except you and himself. The mafia vengekill Player X, you are the only person alive, and town wins. If Player X is town.

General theory, yes. BUT, lynch point is only FIVE. So if Insomniac said "I want everybody at L-1 except player X" -that would mean 4 people have done "vote-all, unvote-Insomniac".

At that point if there is even a single scum not voting he can cherry pick who to lynch and win instantly for scum.

[Insomniac]

@Ash what happens if 4 people are at l-1 and I hammer all 4 with a "Vote: All"

They would all die.  If there were mafia among the 4, you would also die.

Also, I think that breaks the point of the game, so that's lame.

Am I correct in my understanding that if all non me people were at l-1 and I hammered everyone town wins before I get vengekilled?

Insomniac, here's what you need to do. You need to pick someone who you don't think is mafia. That's it: just find one person who isn't mafia. We'll call him Player X. Then, order everyone else to vote everyone EXCEPT you and Player X. Then, Player X hammers everyone except you and himself. The mafia vengekill Player X, you are the only person alive, and town wins. If Player X is town.

General theory, yes. BUT, lynch point is only FIVE. So if Insomniac said "I want everybody at L-1 except player X" -that would mean 4 people have done "vote-all, unvote-Insomniac".

At that point if there is even a single scum not voting he can cherry pick who to lynch and win instantly for scum.

False he can lynch 2 of those players

if his post is

"Vote X, Vote Y, Vote Z"   X and Y get hammered Z lives.

[ashersky]

Mods are talking.  Locked for a minute.

[ashersky]

A buzzer goes off in the control room.  A light flashes.

Sir, the humans...they've evolved!  What do we do?

Ensign, I don't know!  The crowds, they are restless on the screens.  Call...the Commander.

But...the commander?

Yes, damn it.  They don't call him Ozle, Destroyer of Worlds for nothing!

The captain's body freezes while the message comes in from the homeworld.

I know what to do.

Vote: all is disallowed as a command.  Multiple votes may be cast in a post, and will be counted from top to bottom or left to right.  Once a hammer vote is counted, all votes following it, even in the same post, will not count.  unvote: all is still a valid command.

[ashersky]

Thread unlocked.  Thanks for catching the game-breaking oversight in the first 5 posts.

[Insomniac]

Alright back to business as usual

[mcmcsalot]

most exciting start to a mafia game iv'e been in so far

[Insomniac]

So, conflicting. On the other hand I feel like trying to feel it out and being careful with my votes given it's a new setup. On the other hand, no games never get anywhere unless people actually commit to voting for the people they find scummy, so eh. But, the first half of day 1 should run pretty close to how it normally would, except no "lock" situation will ever be reached which never was an issue in blitz in the first place.

I would like EVERYONE to comment on this post and how it reflects on Eevee.

[mcmcsalot]

This seems like innocent eevee trying to figure out the setup, and being posotive about it, I got me some towny feels goin on over here.

[Insomniac]

Additionally I would like everyone to weigh in on how Robz/Mcmc/Galz all reacted to the theory that gave town a guaranteed win.

[Robz888]

So, conflicting. On the other hand I feel like trying to feel it out and being careful with my votes given it's a new setup. On the other hand, no games never get anywhere unless people actually commit to voting for the people they find scummy, so eh. But, the first half of day 1 should run pretty close to how it normally would, except no "lock" situation will ever be reached which never was an issue in blitz in the first place.

I would like EVERYONE to comment on this post and how it reflects on Eevee.

Pretty typical Eevee. I don't get much out of it at all though, really.

[jotheonah]

lol at ashersky's awesome game being awesomely solvable.

But nice fix, also.

So, basically I am going to be a pretty horrible blitz player. But I'm off work in 15 minutes and then home in an hour after that and then I can start participating.

[Robz888]

Additionally I would like everyone to weigh in on how Robz/Mcmc/Galz all reacted to the theory that gave town a guaranteed win.

I think all three of us reacted the only "safe" way to react... exploit the situation for maximum breaking easiness of town victory.

[Galzria]

So, conflicting. On the other hand I feel like trying to feel it out and being careful with my votes given it's a new setup. On the other hand, no games never get anywhere unless people actually commit to voting for the people they find scummy, so eh. But, the first half of day 1 should run pretty close to how it normally would, except no "lock" situation will ever be reached which never was an issue in blitz in the first place.

I would like EVERYONE to comment on this post and how it reflects on Eevee.

I remember way back in blitz whatever, Eevee wanted to play "Sheep the IC", and even though almost every single person in the game disagreed with him, he absolutely would not back down over why it was a good idea. He was, of course, town.

Town!Eevee comes into new setups looking for the optimal play. If he thinks he's found it, he'll pursue it relentlessly. He has complete conviction in his ideas, regardless of what others think.

Here I get more of a sense that he was testing the waters, trying to see where people stand on how to use their votes. This slightly hedgy "maybe this way... But then maybe this way..." Eevee doesn't read as the same Eevee that takes his convictions and runs with them.

So I get a slight - SLIGHT - scum vibe from it. Because honestly at the end of the day this could just as easily be Town!Eevee just being uncomfortable with a new setup. In the end, it's not worth a vote over, but it does make me more aware of him.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.1:

Robz888 (0) -
Eevee (0) -
Galzria (0) -
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (0) -
Jimmmmm (0) -
TheMunch (0) -
Cuzz (0) -
mcmcsalot (0) -

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 4:30 p.m. forum time.

[Jorbles]

Vote Count 1.2:

Robz888 (0) -
Eevee (0) -
Galzria (0) -
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (0) -
Jimmmmm (0) -
TheMunch (0) -
Cuzz (0) -
mcmcsalot (0) -

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 4:30 p.m. forum time.

I admit this is totally superfluous and is really just a tag. 

[Insomniac]

Vote Count 1.2:

Robz888 (0) -
Eevee (0) -
Galzria (0) -
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (0) -
Jimmmmm (0) -
TheMunch (0) -
Cuzz (0) -
mcmcsalot (0) -

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 4:30 p.m. forum time.

I admit this is totally superfluous and is really just a tag. 

Vote: Jorbles

[mcmcsalot]

The only thing I gleam from robz an galz post is robz didn't suggest he stay alive, he suggested insom pick the person he trusted most. Seems like a really dumb scum slip but still get slight scum vibes because of that.

[TheMunch]

Dang it!  So much talk and theory talk and things.  I REALLY wanted to claim "Station aligned" cause "I just saw green so I went oh ok I'm station aligned I didn't think it was called town in this game" but it seems I am too late to troll...

On a serious note, I didn't actually think of the game breaking nature that comes with the multiple votes but I have done some thinking of the interesting hammerer gets vengekilled aspect.  If I'm not mistaken this means that scum cant hammer scum or they lose.  I think this is a tool we can exploit as town, and given that we do have an IC it will make things easier.  I was thinking about some kind of game plan:

1) Dude gets to L-1.
2) Someone states intent to hammer
3) IC picks someone from wagon that he finds scummy and forces them to hammer.

Something along those lines.  I am up for refining this plan.

POINT 2:
There are 3 town deaths every day/night cycle no matter what we do so we will never make it to Day 3.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.3:

Robz888 (0) -
Eevee (0) -
Galzria (0) -
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (0) -
Jimmmmm (0) -
TheMunch (0) -
Cuzz (0) -
mcmcsalot (0) -

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

NOTE: I've added 4 hours to the deadline for my own availability.

[Insomniac]

@Munch solid idea.

Now please weigh in on the 2 questions I've asked of everyone.

[TheMunch]

Will do when I get back tonight!

[Eevee]

That's a very good idea, Munch.

[jotheonah]

POINT 2:
There are 3 town deaths every day/night cycle no matter what we do so we will never make it to Day 3.

Surely you just mean there are three deaths. If it were three town deaths than we couldn't possibly win!

[TheMunch]

For each correct lynch we still lose a town.  So no matter what each lynch a townie will die plus the nk.

[jotheonah]

So, conflicting. On the other hand I feel like trying to feel it out and being careful with my votes given it's a new setup. On the other hand, no games never get anywhere unless people actually commit to voting for the people they find scummy, so eh. But, the first half of day 1 should run pretty close to how it normally would, except no "lock" situation will ever be reached which never was an issue in blitz in the first place.

I would like EVERYONE to comment on this post and how it reflects on Eevee.

It gives me a slightly scummy vibe, outside of Eevee's meta. It has the stink of IIoA.

But it could so very easily be town Eevee, I don't place much store.

[Jimmmmm]

Well I think this is a blunder of meme-worthy proportions:

Creates a "complex and advanced" game which "offers... the largest strategic space we've ever had for both mafia and town as teams, and as individuals."

Is solved in half an hour.

[jotheonah]

Additionally I would like everyone to weigh in on how Robz/Mcmc/Galz all reacted to the theory that gave town a guaranteed win.

Slight town points all around, I guess.

But really, they reacted like Dominion players who just found a game breaking combo. Which is to say, with deviant glee. Damnit, that's a magic card, isn't it?

The only reason I give slight points there is that I imagine a certain sort of scum player might react by freaking out and trying to derail the idea/ keeping quiet for fear of helping town to a cheap win. But I don't really imagine any of the three of them would be that sort of shortsighted player as scum - I think they're all smart enough to go in for the free and easy towncred.

Well, I don't know mcmc as well and he is newer to the game. If anyone would have been spooked by that as town it ought to have been him, so I guess he does actually look pretty good.

[ashersky]

Well I think this is a blunder of meme-worthy proportions:

Creates a "complex and advanced" game which "offers... the largest strategic space we've ever had for both mafia and town as teams, and as individuals."

Is solved in half an hour.

Where's Voltgloss so he can Dsell you?

I'm just glad it was fixed so quickly.

[Jimmmmm]

I think it got to the point where it was obvious that the game needed a fix, and scum have a little more reason to want it fixed than Town do. So explicitly explaining how the game is broken and how Town can immediately win on day one could come from scum.  I mean, you could say that scum would say "Nah that wouldn't work let's not do that", but that wouldn't be very smart. So I'd say it's a pretty null read for all. Except, you know, Insom.

[Dsell]

Well I think this is a blunder of meme-worthy proportions:

Creates a "complex and advanced" game which "offers... the largest strategic space we've ever had for both mafia and town as teams, and as individuals."

Is solved in half an hour.

Where's Voltgloss so he can Dsell you?

I'm just glad it was fixed so quickly.

I am a verb now? Am I a verb that is synonymous with memeing?

If so, sweet.

[jotheonah]

Strong scumread on Insom, clearly






 

[Insomniac]

FoS the low activity and people not answering my questions.

[Eevee]

Catching up, I've spent all my phone access today in DS9.

So, conflicting. On the other hand I feel like trying to feel it out and being careful with my votes given it's a new setup. On the other hand, no games never get anywhere unless people actually commit to voting for the people they find scummy, so eh. But, the first half of day 1 should run pretty close to how it normally would, except no "lock" situation will ever be reached which never was an issue in blitz in the first place.

I would like EVERYONE to comment on this post and how it reflects on Eevee.

I don't know what you are looking for here. It's how I feel about this new setup: I'm confused as how to best tackle it. I honestly hoped someone would start posting mad theory and I'd get to think about different strategies through posts of others. I'm bad at figuring stuff out on my own. Or in the words of mom salon:

This seems like innocent eevee trying to figure out the setup, and being posotive about it, I got me some towny feels goin on over here.

Additionally I would like everyone to weigh in on how Robz/Mcmc/Galz all reacted to the theory that gave town a guaranteed win.

Meh, I mean I don't think how people react to stuff like that has got anything to do with alignments really. Didn't glean anything from it. Fwiw I would have suggested "lets not do this, at least not before ashersky gets a chance to give us a green light. Seems like a boring way to end a possibly awesome game."

I remember way back in blitz whatever, Eevee wanted to play "Sheep the IC", and even though almost every single person in the game disagreed with him, he absolutely would not back down over why it was a good idea. He was, of course, town.

Town!Eevee comes into new setups looking for the optimal play. If he thinks he's found it, he'll pursue it relentlessly. He has complete conviction in his ideas, regardless of what others think.

Here I get more of a sense that he was testing the waters, trying to see where people stand on how to use their votes. This slightly hedgy "maybe this way... But then maybe this way..." Eevee doesn't read as the same Eevee that takes his convictions and runs with them.

So I get a slight - SLIGHT - scum vibe from it. Because honestly at the end of the day this could just as easily be Town!Eevee just being uncomfortable with a new setup. In the end, it's not worth a vote over, but it does make me more aware of him.

I disagree with Galzria A LOT here. First of all, I did back down some from my stance, I went from "I'm think we should do this!" to "well, all of you can't be scum so it seems I'm wrong. I'm looking  forward to the end of the game so I can hear what people really really thought." I was surprised no one was even lying but you all actually thought the idea was THAT bad. I never quite understood why, although I did come around to thinking "meh, it's probably not good either". We are building up a sample size though, at least my idea would have guaranteed town >50% to win. .. not really, we'll never get enough games in to meaningfully analyze the winning probabilities of different factions. But, I digress!

I DO NOT think I'm the kind of guy who has complete conviction in my own ideas. On the contrary, as I explained above, I think I'm for the most part the kind of guy who does his best work through analyzing the work of others. I've pursued some town reads of mine relentlessly, but that's about the extent of relentlessness I've gone to in any of my 15 games, other than the IC thing which I think you mischaracterized. I don't know if you having a different view on my personality than I thought you would is really scummy, but everyone likes talking about themselves so I digress again. I guess it's slightly scummy, but I have the bias of always thinking "makes sense to me = town, doesn't make sense to me = scum" (which usually earns you a free town read), so I don't I'm wary. Seriously, do others think I'm the kind of guy who "takes his convictions and runs with them?" I thought I was always accused of being the exact opposite, too hedgy. And for what it's worth, I don't think being hedgy about "should we vote a lot or not in this new setup" is an alignment tell at all. I just typed out what I was mulling over in my head.

The only thing I gleam from robz an galz post is robz didn't suggest he stay alive, he suggested insom pick the person he trusted most. Seems like a really dumb scum slip but still get slight scum vibes because of that.

I think he just didn't think it through. Robz wouldn't be dumb enough to think no one would notice that, so he wouldn't have tried to force a bad plan like that through intentionally I don't think. I think it shows Robz was posting while distracted / not concentrating very hard, but I don't think that's an alignment tell in Robz's case.

I would like EVERYONE to comment on this post and how it reflects on Eevee.

It gives me a slightly scummy vibe, outside of Eevee's meta. It has the stink of IIoA.

But it could so very easily be town Eevee, I don't place much store.

I don't understand this post. Joth, can you explain how that was the scummy kind of IIoA?



Okay, that was everything. Going to sleeps now, waking up in seven hours. It's an international tournament week thing in Helsinki now, I'm not playing anything myself but all my friends are in town, so I'm don't know how much online time I'll be getting on any given day. For sure at the very minimum some posting when I wake up in 8 hours from this or so (then I'll also know more about my plans for the rest of the day, most plans should allow pretty stable mobile access at least), and this game will obviously be top priority for tomorrow. (Oh and I'll be around for like 30min-1h before falling asleep now, in case someone has follow up questions.) Side note, announcing your exact schedule like this is funny and weird. Feels like I do this in every Blitz game.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.4:

Robz888 (0) -
Eevee (0) -
Galzria (0) -
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (0) -
Jimmmmm (0) -
TheMunch (0) -
Cuzz (0) -
mcmcsalot (0) -

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

Well, I was right about no RVS...

Remember, 28 hours total for D1.  8 hours are gone.

[Insomniac]

Well, I was right about no RVS...

I'm not happy about it

[Robz888]

The only thing I gleam from robz an galz post is robz didn't suggest he stay alive, he suggested insom pick the person he trusted most. Seems like a really dumb scum slip but still get slight scum vibes because of that.

Why would I suggest that Insomniac pick me? Insomniac would never trust that. He has no reason to. If I were scum, that plan would result in a scum win. I'm not scum, but Insomniac doesn't know that. And I don't expect him to have a townread on me after 5 freaking seconds of game play.

What I was suggesting that instead of trying to find 2 scum, Insomniac only needed to find 1 townie. Finding 1 townie is infinitely easier than finding 2 scum. And after he found his townie, he could have had that townie lynch everyone, get vengekilled, and Insomniac and town win.

Of course I would hope to demonstrate to Insomniac that I am town, but it doesn't really matter if he chooses me or one of the other like 5 or so town people. And the important thing is he had no reason to pick me at the time I suggested the plan, so it would have sounded ridiculous for me to propose myself.

[Eevee]

The only thing I gleam from robz an galz post is robz didn't suggest he stay alive, he suggested insom pick the person he trusted most. Seems like a really dumb scum slip but still get slight scum vibes because of that.

Why would I suggest that Insomniac pick me? Insomniac would never trust that. He has no reason to. If I were scum, that plan would result in a scum win. I'm not scum, but Insomniac doesn't know that. And I don't expect him to have a townread on me after 5 freaking seconds of game play.

What I was suggesting that instead of trying to find 2 scum, Insomniac only needed to find 1 townie. Finding 1 townie is infinitely easier than finding 2 scum. And after he found his townie, he could have had that townie lynch everyone, get vengekilled, and Insomniac and town win.

Of course I would hope to demonstrate to Insomniac that I am town, but it doesn't really matter if he chooses me or one of the other like 5 or so town people. And the important thing is he had no reason to pick me at the time I suggested the plan, so it would have sounded ridiculous for me to propose myself.

Unless I'm mistaken, mcmc means you should have proposed Insomniac is the one to stay alive.

[Robz888]

Er, yeah, I got confused, sorry. The initial plan I proposed was for the townie Insomniac picks to not do the killing. Obviously, that's strictly inferior to the version where the possible townie does the killing; if the possible townie does the killing, it doesn't matter if he is town or not.

When I proposed my plan, i simply hadn't thought of the "Insomniac doesn't do the kill" version.

[Eevee]

I think he just didn't think it through. Robz is not dumb enough to think no one would notice that, so he wouldn't have tried to force a bad plan like that through intentionally I don't think. I think it shows Robz was posting while distracted / not concentrating very hard, but I don't think that's an alignment tell in Robz's case.

[Robz888]

But I don't like that answer. I wasn't distracted. I was concentrating. I came up with a plan that is much better than trying to find scum. It just wasn't the optimal plan. In another minute, the optimal plan would have occurred to me. It just hadn't yet.

[Eevee]

But I don't like that answer. I wasn't distracted. I was concentrating. I came up with a plan that is much better than trying to find scum. It just wasn't the optimal plan. In another minute, the optimal plan would have occurred to me. It just hadn't yet.

So, had you concentrated a little harder and not been too eager to post, you wouldn't have posted the "mistake". Maybe I'm wording it badly, but I'm trying to argue it's only a tell in showing you were willing to post things you hadn't thought through completely.

[Robz888]

But it wasn't "wrong" of me to post that.

[Eevee]

This is pointless, I'm probably just too tired to make any sense. I'm trying to say it's just this:

When I proposed my plan, i simply hadn't thought of the "Insomniac doesn't do the kill" version.

that isn't telling of your alignment at all.

[mcmcsalot]

So I was mainly looking for a response from Robz. I still believe it was slightly scummy(ever so slightly) only because he didn't think of the same plan as me and I'm town therefor I feel hes not town. The response was meh, this is why I don't support this method of scumhunting if you are scum your smart enough to talk your way out of it, if not theres a reasonable explanation. I guess you reacted a bit more antsy then I expected though I think its just the way I hear it play out in my head. I have seen many people mention your authoritarian tone on this forum, something I don't get in the least. So null read based on your response. Unless others find your reaction scummy as I have said I think my read is biased.

[Robz888]

Okay, I honestly don't understand.

[jotheonah]

@Eevee. It's not a post I would have chosen to comment on if our IC hadn't requested it. But if I had to give a read on, it would be slight scum, because it feels sort of like posting just to up your post count. But so early in the game, that's not much of a tell.

[mcmcsalot]

Okay, I honestly don't understand.

What don't you understand, as I said it was a slight scum tell because you didn't think of the same plan as me and I'm town so I assume you are not town. But honestly I was just looking at your response. Your response is clear enough but your confusion and refutal of eevee's post reads scummy to me.

[jotheonah]

12 hours to go. What shall we talk about?

[mcmcsalot]

I don't know, post count?

[mcmcsalot]

Post count and compare that to the wagon on qvist to see if anyone looks really scummy.

[jotheonah]

Maybe we need to go deeper. It's a game full of veterans with short deadlines. Scum are probably not lurking - too risky. So what are they doing?

I think scum will sound rehearsed in this set up. In such a grandiose setup, it seems like it would be tempting to overplan to try to ensure victory.

[TheMunch]

I was getting drunk is what I was doing!

[TheMunch]

Post count and compare that to the wagon on qvist to see if anyone looks really scummy.

Qvist is in this game?

[TheMunch]

So, conflicting. On the other hand I feel like trying to feel it out and being careful with my votes given it's a new setup. On the other hand, no games never get anywhere unless people actually commit to voting for the people they find scummy, so eh. But, the first half of day 1 should run pretty close to how it normally would, except no "lock" situation will ever be reached which never was an issue in blitz in the first place.

I would like EVERYONE to comment on this post and how it reflects on Eevee.

So this was your question, Insom?  I dont actually understand Eevees post.  "I feel we should be careful with our vote but also vote cause we cant lynch anyone if we dont vote for anyone" feels like a nothing statement to me.  Also I dont know what he means by "lock".

[mcmcsalot]

Post count and compare that to the wagon on qvist to see if anyone looks really scummy.

Qvist is in this game?

Nope I'm a total newb I was combining this game with mafia noir...

[mcmcsalot]

Maybe we need to go deeper. It's a game full of veterans with short deadlines. Scum are probably not lurking - too risky. So what are they doing?

I think scum will sound rehearsed in this set up. In such a grandiose setup, it seems like it would be tempting to overplan to try to ensure victory.

Or your defending your lurking scum buddies

[Jimmmmm]

Okay. I need to get into this game. So we have ~10 hours to figure out TWO people to lynch, am I right? Do we want to set a deadline for the first one, maybe 1 or 2 hours before deadline?

[Jimmmmm]

In answer to Insom's question, I got a nullread from Eevee's post. It's either Town wondering about the setup or scum trying to imitate his Town play, and I don't have a particular leaning one way or another.

[jotheonah]

Getting your games mixed up is a towntell.

I think my strongest read so far is a town read on mcmc.

[Insomniac]

I also asked how people fel about robz/Galz/mcmc regarding the instant win debacle. Ill add one more question. I have a scum read. Who is it

[Jimmmmm]

Also, I don't attribute reactions to the game-break as either Towny or scummy. I think both would have reacted the same way.

FoS joth for accusing the fourth post of the game as IIoA and posting to get the post count up.

[Jimmmmm]

I also asked how people fel about robz/Galz/mcmc regarding the instant win debacle. Ill add one more question. I have a scum read. Who is it

I'm going to guess either Munch or jo?

[Jimmmmm]

Well I'm off to bed. I should be back and available around 3 hours before deadline.

[jotheonah]

I also asked how people fel about robz/Galz/mcmc regarding the instant win debacle. Ill add one more question. I have a scum read. Who is it

I'm going to guess either Munch or jo?

I think either myself or Jimmmmmm. It's probably someone who's actually contributing, rather than one of the many lurkers.

[mcmcsalot]

Yay I agree with Jimm, I also find joth scummy for buddying me. As for your top scum read, joth or robz?

[mcmcsalot]

Well I'm off to bed. I should be back and available around 3 hours before deadline.

So your in an opposite time zone to me, this would explain why you don't answer questions when I expect you to.

[TheMunch]

I also asked how people fel about robz/Galz/mcmc regarding the instant win debacle. Ill add one more question. I have a scum read. Who is it

Oh Robz's slip with the what plan to say and his back and forth with Eevee?  The back and forth with Eevee was interesting cause it felt like Eevee was trying to make Robz slip up but all of Robz's responses seemed genuine.

Idk I'm trying to to give too much wait to discussion of game breaking scenarios, especially if they have been discussed by the mods now.  My biggest concern out of all of that was that while yes town could win given a certain series of votes whatever, it could also give scum a free mislynch.  I dont really care too much to talk about the game breaking strategy stuff.

Maybe I'm just vain but I thought my idea was better!!  I think we should talk about my idea some more!

[Insomniac]

I also asked how people fel about robz/Galz/mcmc regarding the instant win debacle. Ill add one more question. I have a scum read. Who is it

Oh Robz's slip with the what plan to say and his back and forth with Eevee?  The back and forth with Eevee was interesting cause it felt like Eevee was trying to make Robz slip up but all of Robz's responses seemed genuine.

Idk I'm trying to to give too much wait to discussion of game breaking scenarios, especially if they have been discussed by the mods now.  My biggest concern out of all of that was that while yes town could win given a certain series of votes whatever, it could also give scum a free mislynch.  I dont really care too much to talk about the game breaking strategy stuff.

Maybe I'm just vain but I thought my idea was better!!  I think we should talk about my idea some more!

No, when the 4 of us were discussing how the game is broken how they reacted to its imminent implementation. Bonus points I have two town reads, who are they

[mcmcsalot]

Munch I love your plan, I think we have to come up with our two lynch candidates for D1. Then we make our second candidate hammer the first one. This gives us the flip on one and of we're wrong the flip on two. This is the most likey chance of lynching one mafia. Then with our knowledge we find a third scum candidate and either have him lynch candidate number 2 assuming #1 was town or have candidate number 4 hammer candidate number 3.

This is the most logical plan to kill the most mafia.

[TheMunch]

I like McMc's comment.  This is an approach I hadn't thought of.  I like it.

[mcmcsalot]

Everyone needs to participate to get this plan going, it requires absolute compliance from town members as it logicall benefits us, but if people don't cooperate ie hammering people when we need you too, it goes bad quick, hopefully anyone not willing to cooperate becomes obvi scum.if you have questions or problems with the plan bring them out now so we can deal with it rather than at hammer tome

[mcmcsalot]

We need to hear more from cuzz, galz, eevee, robz on this. I've heard galz is a great scum hunter and town player I'm interested in his number 1 and 2 scum reads.

Also joth who do you find scummy, lots I people find you scummy including me but you are participating which is helpful.

[Insomniac]

MCMC if we're wrong we learn nothing about the hammer, we only learn about the hammer if they ARE scum.

[TheMunch]

I think we might actually learn a lot of we play our cards right.  The thing is it sets a tone.  It is very dangerous for scum to hammer other scum, so yes we will see them avoid hammering someone then we found both scum, great.  BUT what I'm trying to work out is how to handle scum (if we pick them to hammer a town instead) their overeagerness to do so under the guise of "well I was just listening to IC insom" so this is something I want to talk about.

[Eevee]

Plan sounds good. I'm fine with doing whatever Ins asks me to do.

As for your reads, ughhh. I just reread the whole game yesterday and got nada. I understand why you could think mcmc is town, but I haven't gotten any scummy vibes from anyone. Galzria is in so so many games these days, him not posting that much isn't that much of a tell anymore. If you have reads though ins, that's excellent. I'm ready to sheep you whatever they are, as long as it doesn't include me self-voting.

[mcmcsalot]

I think we might actually learn a lot of we play our cards right.  The thing is it sets a tone.  It is very dangerous for scum to hammer other scum, so yes we will see them avoid hammering someone then we found both scum, great.  BUT what I'm trying to work out is how to handle scum (if we pick them to hammer a town instead) their overeagerness to do so under the guise of "well I was just listening to IC insom" so this is something I want to talk about.

Exactly an if we are wrong on the first lynch we reasses and do the same with our new #1 and #2 scum reads.

Also referring to your post above, this is why we need participating and willing town members. Town hammering town is just one mislynch town hammering scum is one mislynch. Neither of these kill us and we can recover from. Scum hammering scum is something they cannot recover from.

[jotheonah]

I'm confused - I thought that we had to do two lynches before we got a flip? And if both those hammerers get vengekilled, that's five deaths before Day 2 starts? That can't be right.

I don't really have any scum reads yet. Need to do a reread now I know what to look for.

[Insomniac]

Jo we get a flip after the first one so if actually like to get going on that

[mcmcsalot]

Plan sounds good. I'm fine with doing whatever Ins asks me to do.

As for your reads, ughhh. I just reread the whole game yesterday and got nada. I understand why you could think mcmc is town, but I haven't gotten any scummy vibes from anyone. Galzria is in so so many games these days, him not posting that much isn't that much of a tell anymore. If you have reads though ins, that's excellent. I'm ready to sheep you whatever they are, as long as it doesn't include me self-voting.

Eevee this worries me, insom has no more knowledge of the game then you do. If you are town why would you want to just sheep everything he says, he's ic this means I will never have a scum read on him, this doesn't mean I can't disagree with his reads. I think a big reason we won ZMIX is because we played robz and insom very well and the town just sheeped the ic's.

So I hope you will not sheep the ic, I hope you vocalize and argue with him, support your own reads, ic means we don't vote for him not he's god.

Infact decent scum read on you because you should've none sheeping the ic is bad to we're scum with me in ZMIX

[Insomniac]

2 mega posts and 1 post incoming.

[jotheonah]

Jo we get a flip after the first one so if actually like to get going on that

But the vengekill only happens if scum is lynched. Got it.

[jotheonah]

Plan sounds good. I'm fine with doing whatever Ins asks me to do.

As for your reads, ughhh. I just reread the whole game yesterday and got nada. I understand why you could think mcmc is town, but I haven't gotten any scummy vibes from anyone. Galzria is in so so many games these days, him not posting that much isn't that much of a tell anymore. If you have reads though ins, that's excellent. I'm ready to sheep you whatever they are, as long as it doesn't include me self-voting.

Eevee this worries me, insom has no more knowledge of the game then you do. If you are town why would you want to just sheep everything he says, he's ic this means I will never have a scum read on him, this doesn't mean I can't disagree with his reads. I think a big reason we won ZMIX is because we played robz and insom very well and the town just sheeped the ic's.

So I hope you will not sheep the ic, I hope you vocalize and argue with him, support your own reads, ic means we don't vote for him not he's god.

Infact decent scum read on you because you should've none sheeping the ic is bad to we're scum with me in ZMIX

townread on mcmc retracted.

[TheMunch]

Plan sounds good. I'm fine with doing whatever Ins asks me to do.

As for your reads, ughhh. I just reread the whole game yesterday and got nada. I understand why you could think mcmc is town, but I haven't gotten any scummy vibes from anyone. Galzria is in so so many games these days, him not posting that much isn't that much of a tell anymore. If you have reads though ins, that's excellent. I'm ready to sheep you whatever they are, as long as it doesn't include me self-voting.

Eevee this worries me, insom has no more knowledge of the game then you do. If you are town why would you want to just sheep everything he says, he's ic this means I will never have a scum read on him, this doesn't mean I can't disagree with his reads. I think a big reason we won ZMIX is because we played robz and insom very well and the town just sheeped the ic's.

So I hope you will not sheep the ic, I hope you vocalize and argue with him, support your own reads, ic means we don't vote for him not he's god.

Infact decent scum read on you because you should've none sheeping the ic is bad to we're scum with me in ZMIX

I had this exact same thought.  I'm going to answer any questions Insom asks of me and for the most part follow his commands.  But I sure as hell wont sheep his reads.  Our reads help inform Insomniacs reads.  If everyone literally did nothing but sheep Insom's reads, it would be impossible for Insomniac to find scum.

PPE: Maybe I'm swayed too much in general by people that I agree with but this gives me a stronger town read on mcmc.  Hey guys, I'm gonna do an insomniac: I got 2 scum reads!

[Insomniac]

So, conflicting. On the other hand I feel like trying to feel it out and being careful with my votes given it's a new setup. On the other hand, no games never get anywhere unless people actually commit to voting for the people they find scummy, so eh. But, the first half of day 1 should run pretty close to how it normally would, except no "lock" situation will ever be reached which never was an issue in blitz in the first place.

I would like EVERYONE to comment on this post and how it reflects on Eevee.

Responses:

This seems like innocent eevee trying to figure out the setup, and being posotive about it, I got me some towny feels goin on over here.

Pretty typical Eevee. I don't get much out of it at all though, really.

I remember way back in blitz whatever, Eevee wanted to play "Sheep the IC", and even though almost every single person in the game disagreed with him, he absolutely would not back down over why it was a good idea. He was, of course, town.

Town!Eevee comes into new setups looking for the optimal play. If he thinks he's found it, he'll pursue it relentlessly. He has complete conviction in his ideas, regardless of what others think.

Here I get more of a sense that he was testing the waters, trying to see where people stand on how to use their votes. This slightly hedgy "maybe this way... But then maybe this way..." Eevee doesn't read as the same Eevee that takes his convictions and runs with them.

So I get a slight - SLIGHT - scum vibe from it. Because honestly at the end of the day this could just as easily be Town!Eevee just being uncomfortable with a new setup. In the end, it's not worth a vote over, but it does make me more aware of him.

So, conflicting. On the other hand I feel like trying to feel it out and being careful with my votes given it's a new setup. On the other hand, no games never get anywhere unless people actually commit to voting for the people they find scummy, so eh. But, the first half of day 1 should run pretty close to how it normally would, except no "lock" situation will ever be reached which never was an issue in blitz in the first place.

I would like EVERYONE to comment on this post and how it reflects on Eevee.

It gives me a slightly scummy vibe, outside of Eevee's meta. It has the stink of IIoA.

But it could so very easily be town Eevee, I don't place much store.

I don't know what you are looking for here. It's how I feel about this new setup: I'm confused as how to best tackle it. I honestly hoped someone would start posting mad theory and I'd get to think about different strategies through posts of others. I'm bad at figuring stuff out on my own.

So this was your question, Insom?  I dont actually understand Eevees post.  "I feel we should be careful with our vote but also vote cause we cant lynch anyone if we dont vote for anyone" feels like a nothing statement to me.  Also I dont know what he means by "lock".

In answer to Insom's question, I got a nullread from Eevee's post. It's either Town wondering about the setup or scum trying to imitate his Town play, and I don't have a particular leaning one way or another.

No Response: Cuzz

[Eevee]

Oh, I didnt mean to imply I'll just sheep Ins all game. better wording: Yes, the plan is good, ill be the hammerman if ins so decides. no objections, it's protown ill follow unless it requires me to selfvote.

separate note, I regret to inform despite doing a reread, I don't have very strong reads, just the knowledge of my own towniness. so, ins having reads already is excellent, because if I have to sheep someone which would be the case if the dl was now, I'd rather have it be a smart strong town player that's also an IC.

[mcmcsalot]

Joth why do you no longer find me townie

[Insomniac]

Additionally I would like everyone to weigh in on how Robz/Mcmc/Galz all reacted to the theory that gave town a guaranteed win.

Responses:

I think all three of us reacted the only "safe" way to react... exploit the situation for maximum breaking easiness of town victory.

The only thing I gleam from robz an galz post is robz didn't suggest he stay alive, he suggested insom pick the person he trusted most. Seems like a really dumb scum slip but still get slight scum vibes because of that.

Slight town points all around, I guess.

But really, they reacted like Dominion players who just found a game breaking combo. Which is to say, with deviant glee. Damnit, that's a magic card, isn't it?

The only reason I give slight points there is that I imagine a certain sort of scum player might react by freaking out and trying to derail the idea/ keeping quiet for fear of helping town to a cheap win. But I don't really imagine any of the three of them would be that sort of shortsighted player as scum - I think they're all smart enough to go in for the free and easy towncred.

Well, I don't know mcmc as well and he is newer to the game. If anyone would have been spooked by that as town it ought to have been him, so I guess he does actually look pretty good.

I think it got to the point where it was obvious that the game needed a fix, and scum have a little more reason to want it fixed than Town do. So explicitly explaining how the game is broken and how Town can immediately win on day one could come from scum.  I mean, you could say that scum would say "Nah that wouldn't work let's not do that", but that wouldn't be very smart. So I'd say it's a pretty null read for all. Except, you know, Insom.

Meh, I mean I don't think how people react to stuff like that has got anything to do with alignments really. Didn't glean anything from it. Fwiw I would have suggested "lets not do this, at least not before ashersky gets a chance to give us a green light. Seems like a boring way to end a possibly awesome game."

No Responses: Galz, Cuzz, TheMunch

[jotheonah]

Joth why do you no longer find me townie

I still do for the most part, but that virulent reaction against Eevee sheeping the IC raised a red flag.

WHAT you were saying makes sense, but it's also the case that scum wants to reduce our trust in the IC as much as possible, and seems like you jumped right on a chance to do just that.

[Insomniac]

Post Count: EXCLUDING PRE GAME. (Including this post)

Robz888 - 13
Eevee - 11
Galzria - 2
Insomniac - 25
Jotheonah - 14
Jimmmmm - 7
TheMunch - 10
Cuzz - 0
mcmcsalot - 19

[TheMunch]

Insom, I responded to the second question.

[TheMunch]

I responded in 193.

[Insomniac]

Vote: Cuzz - Zero posts is unnacceptable
Vote: Galzria - 2 posts is also unnacceptable

[Eevee]

I don't agree that I shouldn't for the most part just sheep the IC RIGHT QT THIS MOMENT. If evenrereading the thread hasnt given me any reads I feel I can trust, what else can i do? This is what i was talking about in the "if no one votes, game never gets moving" post. thats how i feel. Obviously I look forward to Ins presenting his cases so I can evaluate and comment on them.

[Insomniac]

Scum Reads:
Galzria - Galzria responded to the Eevee question in the way I was looking for, I set that question up to see who reacted by saying he was scummy, because I expected scum to think I thought that post was scummy. Galzria did this. Additionally I did NOT like his first post about the game breaking we were attempting, I thought he was reacting a bit like scum scared to pull the trigger on an auto loss


Strong Town Reads:
Mcmc - I DID like how MCMC responded to the game breaking early, he was completely supportive of it and more so than Galz/Robz contributed to finding it.

Town Read:
Joth - I have a town read on joth just based on meta reasons.

Slight Town Read:
Munch - He seems pretty genuinely helpful this game and has contributed some good ideas to the theory.

Null: Everyone else.

[Insomniac]

At this point my intent is fully revealed, these are my honest reads

[Eevee]

I I follow, I follow you deep sea baby, etc

vote: cuzz
vote: galzria

Insomniac's justification is reasonable, agreed. Although Galzria missed the end of ds9 and cuzz wasn't around much either so both probably have had scarce access.

[Insomniac]

BTW for the first lynch I want Galz to hammer Cuzz.

[Galzria]

Scum Reads:
Galzria - Galzria responded to the Eevee question in the way I was looking for, I set that question up to see who reacted by saying he was scummy, because I expected scum to think I thought that post was scummy. Galzria did this. Additionally I did NOT like his first post about the game breaking we were attempting, I thought he was reacting a bit like scum scared to pull the trigger on an auto loss


Strong Town Reads:
Mcmc - I DID like how MCMC responded to the game breaking early, he was completely supportive of it and more so than Galz/Robz contributed to finding it.

Town Read:
Joth - I have a town read on joth just based on meta reasons.

Slight Town Read:
Munch - He seems pretty genuinely helpful this game and has contributed some good ideas to the theory.

Null: Everyone else.

Your wrong as usual Insomniac. I responded as Town trying to poke wholes in the idea because if I could find a fucking way then so could scum and guess who would look like an idiot then?

And guess what? Here's the break in your "Oh so perfect town win":

Eevee votes all.
Robz votes all.
Galz votes all.
Joth votes all.

All unvote you.

But let's assume one of those 4 is scum.

Ready for this?

Scum unvotes just ONE buddy (or all. Doesn't matter) and his buddy NOT voting votes all for the massive town hammer. And don't think for a second they can't coordinate that. They've coordinated a 15 second tri-hammer in the past. But you'll remember that well, won't you, seeing as you were the IC who set up that win for then then as well.

[Insomniac]

They don't have day chat Galz. And responding by attacking my ability to read people is not a way to win me over.

[Robz888]

Hi guys, I'm here now.

My brother is playing way harder than last blitz game. He reads experienced scum to me. So I disagree with you there, Ins. I do agree with you about Galzria, though.

Joth is town as always. Not sure on anyone else.

[Insomniac]

But even ignoring that for a moment Galz. Respond to the rest of my case.

Why do you have 2 posts?
Do you deny scum would try to throw at least a little suspicion on Eevee as it looked like I was suspicious of Eevee?

[Galzria]

They don't have day chat Galz. And responding by attacking my ability to read people is not a way to win me over.

Oh. Didn't realize they didn't.

Well whatever. Apparently trying to look for wholes so scum can't laugh their assess off to an easy win is now an OMGSCUUUUM move.

Whatever. Good job Insomniac.

Vote: Galzria

I'll hammer whoever the hell you want, I don't give a damn, but if you're directing I'll give 90% odds they're town

[TheMunch]

I dont share insomniacs town read on Joth.  Joth is one of my scum reads right now.  Along with Eevee.  They aren't the strongest but they exist.

PPE: Galz self votes?  Vote: Galzria

[Eevee]

I agree with everything in Ins's read post except the idea that you could get meaningful read from how people react to breaking the game. okay maybe I understand seeing making it happen with your contributions towny, but other than that.. some people just don't want to break the game.

PPE 7

[Insomniac]

They don't have day chat Galz. And responding by attacking my ability to read people is not a way to win me over.

Oh. Didn't realize they didn't.

Well whatever. Apparently trying to look for wholes so scum can't laugh their assess off to an easy win is now an OMGSCUUUUM move.

Whatever. Good job Insomniac.

Vote: Galzria

I'll hammer whoever the hell you want, I don't give a damn, but if you're directing I'll give 90% odds they're town

Again how about the rest of my case. And seriously attacking my play skill is not gonna win me over here. Nor is a self vote.


UNVOTE: GALZRIA

[jotheonah]

Holy crazy defensive selfvote, Batman! I think we've caught a live one.

It can't be this easy.

[Insomniac]

What the hell Munch we aren't hammering Galz first. We're hammering Cuzz first and Galz is going to do it.

[Galzria]

But even ignoring that for a moment Galz. Respond to the rest of my case.

Why do you have 2 posts?
Do you deny scum would try to throw at least a little suspicion on Eevee as it looked like I was suspicious of Eevee?

No, I think you're being an idiot here. You ask a question and I give an honest response. Next time I'll just lie through my teeth since apparently in your double think world that's what townies should do.

As for the two posts? Maybe you haven't noticed but I've been busy everywhere recently and my entire forum timehas been down. Last night was entirely focused on XIX. Sorry, I'll schedule lynches in all my other games to be more convenient with YOUR time schedule.

[mcmcsalot]

Wow this is a crazy overreaction from galz, I agree galz shoul hammer cuzz and galz should be out second day kill hammered by possibly joth, possibly robz

[Robz888]

What the hell Munch we aren't hammering Galz first. We're hammering Cuzz first and Galz is going to do it.

Do you want us to vote for Cuzz now? I'm not sure this is the best idea. What are the odds he's scum and not participating at all? Would he really do that to his scumbuddy? I can see being in a funk and not wanting to play, but not if you're in a super serious scum and you're scum alongside exactly one other person who is going to hate you forever for this.

[Galzria]

They don't have day chat Galz. And responding by attacking my ability to read people is not a way to win me over.

Oh. Didn't realize they didn't.

Well whatever. Apparently trying to look for wholes so scum can't laugh their assess off to an easy win is now an OMGSCUUUUM move.

Whatever. Good job Insomniac.

Vote: Galzria

I'll hammer whoever the hell you want, I don't give a damn, but if you're directing I'll give 90% odds they're town

Again how about the rest of my case. And seriously attacking my play skill is not gonna win me over here. Nor is a self vote.


UNVOTE: GALZRIA

I really don't give a damn about winning you over. That's not going to happen anyway. Nope, once Insomniac has decided that's it. At this point I'm more interested in pointing out how terrible your case is. One of these times you'll figure out that the only people you have EVER "tricked" are town.

[mcmcsalot]

I sorta agree with robz on this, but cuzz isn't helping us any as town, any thoughts of getting cuzz on to hammer galz instead?

[TheMunch]

All I know is my plan involved us working to find a lynch and Insomniac gets to pick who to hammer.  I'm not to sheep Insoms who to kill blindly though.  I want to talk about galz more first.  Insom, why did Galz self vote make you unvote him?

[Eevee]

Galz, you sort of should so that given this game has 28 hour days.. Being unavailable for most of that is most unfortunate and reasonable grounds for suspicion,
I think.

I think Insomniac finding your response to me scummy was also reasonable. I don't know if you remember but I too heavily disagreed with it.

Also, chill out it's just a game! if you are town it's obviously unfortunate, but it's not like ins is after you because of personal reasons.

ppe 4 it's IMPOSSIBLE to keep up on phone

[TheMunch]

I agree with Mcmc.  Id rather see it the other way, Cuzz hammering Galz.  Last time I remember Galz self voting was XV where he was SK.

[Insomniac]

They don't have day chat Galz. And responding by attacking my ability to read people is not a way to win me over.

Oh. Didn't realize they didn't.

Well whatever. Apparently trying to look for wholes so scum can't laugh their assess off to an easy win is now an OMGSCUUUUM move.

Whatever. Good job Insomniac.

Vote: Galzria

I'll hammer whoever the hell you want, I don't give a damn, but if you're directing I'll give 90% odds they're town

Again how about the rest of my case. And seriously attacking my play skill is not gonna win me over here. Nor is a self vote.


UNVOTE: GALZRIA

I really don't give a damn about winning you over. That's not going to happen anyway. Nope, once Insomniac has decided that's it. At this point I'm more interested in pointing out how terrible your case is. One of these times you'll figure out that the only people you have EVER "tricked" are town.

Thats not true at all I second guessed myself in ZM whatever it was and lossed the game because of it.  I second guessed myself in MXVI (I had a vote for ehunt all ready) I second guess myself all the time and the thing is you KNOW that because you've been there. As for fitting to my schedule I mean really? This isn't about my schedule at all but it would be nice if you popped in and said a few words more than 2 posts. I haven't really been following XIX but I can't imagine you couldn't have popped in at all considering Eevee, Robz and Joth are all involved in that game and have poked in.

[Galzria]

Here's something actually useful though. I won't be a complete Dick to the rest of town:

Joth is my #1 scum read. It was (I think) post #151 that he gave his read on Eevee and parrot'ed me almost word for word.

He then made a future post about how scum would "think" that just reaked of "My buddies are lurking, but no way scum would do that. Let's all think how scum would think here!" - It was absolutely a classic scum redirect post.

[Insomniac]

All I know is my plan involved us working to find a lynch and Insomniac gets to pick who to hammer.  I'm not to sheep Insoms who to kill blindly though.  I want to talk about galz more first.  Insom, why did Galz self vote make you unvote him?

It didn't. you putting him at l-1 did.

[mcmcsalot]

Galz I already mentioned sheeping insom is not the plan were not following his orders, why would you jump to this defensive position

[jotheonah]

So this hammer thing:


Best case scenario - Cuzz-Galz scum team. Galz hammers, we win. So obviously Galz will try to talk his way out of the hammer. Presumably in that case we let someone else hammer and then we lynch Galz.

Galz is scum, Cuzz is town - Galz will happily hammer, and we'll have to lynch Galz (if we still think he's scum)

Galz is town, Cuzz is scum - Galz may or may not agree to hammer. If he does, he'll die (which is bad, although it does save us mislynching him). If he doesn't, he'll look really scummy and we'll lynch him.

Both of them are town - We'll probably still end up lynching Galz next.

So it seems to me like in almost any scenario, we end up having to do a Galz lynch anyway. The only scenario that lets us kill him is one where he's town, and therefore we don't want to. Why is this a good plan?

[Insomniac]

Here's something actually useful though. I won't be a complete Dick to the rest of town:

Joth is my #1 scum read. It was (I think) post #151 that he gave his read on Eevee and parrot'ed me almost word for word.

He then made a future post about how scum would "think" that just reaked of "My buddies are lurking, but no way scum would do that. Let's all think how scum would think here!" - It was absolutely a classic scum redirect post.

Fuck it I have to step away for a while because, I'm getting super angry at how Galz is reacting.

[mcmcsalot]

Also joth is my number two scum read, galz would you hammer joth and joth would you hammer galz,

[TheMunch]

Wait, I put him at L-1?  I thought there was 9 town.  Insom voted, Eevee voted, and I voted?  Doesn't it take 5 to lynch?  Maybe I missed something.

[jotheonah]

I would hammer anyone Insom told me to hammer, for the good of the town.

TBH I'd rather not hammer Galz because I don't want to get vengekilled. But I'd do it if Insom asked and the town agreed.

[TheMunch]

Also joth is my number two scum read, galz would you hammer joth and joth would you hammer galz,

This made me think of something interesting.  I want to wait till Galz responded.

[jotheonah]

Theory: TheMunch voted Galz right away so his vote would already be on him, so he couldn't be asked to hammer.

[jotheonah]

Also, did everyone see my post just now about how this hammer thing doesn't make that much sense to me?

[TheMunch]

Theory: TheMunch voted Galz right away so his vote would already be on him, so he couldn't be asked to hammer.

I can still be asked to hammer and if I was asked to hammer I would unvote, let someone else vote, and do it.  Also I figured out my mistake regarding putting Galz at L-1.  I forgot that Galz self vote actually matters....

[mcmcsalot]

Also, did everyone see my post just now about how this hammer thing doesn't make that much sense to me?

I did see it I'm not sure what your confused on, I can help explain in one hour when I'm at a computer I have been phone posting walking to and from/in classes all day. And yes this is impossible to keep up.

[Insomniac]

Wait, I put him at L-1?  I thought there was 9 town.  Insom voted, Eevee voted, and I voted?  Doesn't it take 5 to lynch?  Maybe I missed something.

You missed the self vote that you voted him over.

[jotheonah]

Theory: TheMunch voted Galz right away so his vote would already be on him, so he couldn't be asked to hammer.

I can still be asked to hammer and if I was asked to hammer I would unvote, let someone else vote, and do it.  Also I figured out my mistake regarding putting Galz at L-1.  I forgot that Galz self vote actually matters....

BUt you put him at L-1. Maybe you were hoping someone else would blunder into the hammer before Insomniac could direct it.

This might be a little too wild conspiracy ish

[Insomniac]

I dont remember who suggested it but no we can't make Cuzz hammer Galz. We can't even be sure cuzz will show up.

[Jorbles]

Vote Count 1.5:

Robz888 (0) -
Eevee (0) -
Galzria (0) - Eevee, Galzria, TheMunch
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (0) -
Jimmmmm (0) -
TheMunch (0) -
Cuzz (0) - Insomniac, Eevee
mcmcsalot (0) -

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

Well, I was right about no RVS...

Remember, 28 hours total for D1.  8 hours are gone.

[Robz888]

Cuzz said in his last post of the day in M-XIX that he might want a break from mafia. He very well may not show up. If he's scum, this is a huge break. But I have to believe he's probably not, if he's putting this little effort into it.

[Jorbles]

FTFM

Well, I was right about no RVS...

Remember, 28 hours total for D1.  8 hours are gone.

[Insomniac]

Cuzz said in his last post of the day in M-XIX that he might want a break from mafia. He very well may not show up. If he's scum, this is a huge break. But I have to believe he's probably not, if he's putting this little effort into it.

Whether this is true or not if he's going to 0 post it he's a detriment to town.

[TheMunch]

Theory: TheMunch voted Galz right away so his vote would already be on him, so he couldn't be asked to hammer.

I can still be asked to hammer and if I was asked to hammer I would unvote, let someone else vote, and do it.  Also I figured out my mistake regarding putting Galz at L-1.  I forgot that Galz self vote actually matters....

BUt you put him at L-1. Maybe you were hoping someone else would blunder into the hammer before Insomniac could direct it.

This might be a little too wild conspiracy ish

I think it is a little conspiracy theorish but whatever it was just a mistake.  You can read into it however much you would like.  Insom caught it right away so fortunately it didn't turn into a big deal.  If Galz was hammered by someone else, and flipped town, then I could see you guys lynching both the hammerer and myself, that would actually be pretty reasonable.  But that didn't happen.

[Jorbles]

Also I'm apparently bad at counting 3 votes on Galzria, 2 votes on Cuzz (not Zero).

[jotheonah]

Let me rephrase my question:

Knowing that scum!Galz will never lynch his scumbuddy and that town!Galz very possibly will vote for scum!Cuzz, what do we as a town gain by asking Galz to hammer Cuzz?

[Insomniac]

Let me rephrase my question:

Knowing that scum!Galz will never lynch his scumbuddy and that town!Galz very possibly will vote for scum!Cuzz, what do we as a town gain by asking Galz to hammer Cuzz?

failure to lynch is an admission of guilt

[Insomniac]

Similar to the game where galz 'hammered' sfs with unbolded text, and then disappeared he wanted it to be townie but in the end it was an admission of guilt.

[jotheonah]

Let me rephrase my question:

Knowing that scum!Galz will never lynch his scumbuddy and that town!Galz very possibly will vote for scum!Cuzz, what do we as a town gain by asking Galz to hammer Cuzz?

failure to lynch is an admission of guilt

Right, I get that, but functionally it's like the same outcome, right? A townie dies, we lynch Galz next.

Some housekeeping: I am on my lunchbreak now, that ends in 15 minutes. At 1:30 I have a bunch of calls and then I have to write a story and have a meeting with my boss, so I can't really plan to be here at all from 1:30 to 6, although I imagine I'll have opportunities to pop in. And then I have to check out an apartment at 7:30, so that will likely take an hour.

Given that my availability is about to take a sharp dip, I'd like to Vote: Cuzz just in case you need my vote there later. I'd also like to vote for Galz, but I won't do it without Insom's go-ahead, for obvious reasons.

I will Vote: TheMunch in case that happens, based on his derpL-1ing of Galz.

[Insomniac]

I'd actually like to get that Cuzz flip.

[TheMunch]

Cuzz now has 3 votes on him (before I mess something up again)?  Insom/Eevee/Joth?

[jotheonah]

that's accurate

[Robz888]

I'd actually like to get that Cuzz flip.

Insomniac, I'll vote for Cuzz if and when you tell me to. Still don't think there's any reason to presume he's scum. Although it's possible we have to kill him anyway and hope since he'll never show.

[Cuzz]

I'd actually like to get that Cuzz flip.

Insomniac, I'll vote for Cuzz if and when you tell me to. Still don't think there's any reason to presume he's scum. Although it's possible we have to kill him anyway and hope since he'll never show.

Catching up now. You think I'd never show if I were scum?

[Galzria]

How many more until I can hammer Cuzz? It's the only thing I'm waiting for before checking out of this game.

[Robz888]

I'd actually like to get that Cuzz flip.

Insomniac, I'll vote for Cuzz if and when you tell me to. Still don't think there's any reason to presume he's scum. Although it's possible we have to kill him anyway and hope since he'll never show.

Catching up now. You think I'd never show if I were scum?

If you read, you'll realize I thought the exact opposite. I said if you were scum you'd almost certainly show up.

[Robz888]

And hi.

[Insomniac]

How many more until I can hammer Cuzz? It's the only thing I'm waiting for before checking out of this game.

Like I don't know what's going on man, but you've never been this hostile/mean nor this apathetic towards a game before.

[Cuzz]

And hi.

Sup

[jotheonah]

How many more until I can hammer Cuzz? It's the only thing I'm waiting for before checking out of this game.

Like I don't know what's going on man, but you've never been this hostile/mean nor this apathetic towards a game before.

Seriously.

[jotheonah]

I'd actually like to get that Cuzz flip.

Insomniac, I'll vote for Cuzz if and when you tell me to. Still don't think there's any reason to presume he's scum. Although it's possible we have to kill him anyway and hope since he'll never show.

Catching up now. You think I'd never show if I were scum?

If you read, you'll realize I thought the exact opposite. I said if you were scum you'd almost certainly show up.

Unless lurking were working and we had all given him a free town pass.

[TheMunch]

How many more until I can hammer Cuzz? It's the only thing I'm waiting for before checking out of this game.

Like I don't know what's going on man, but you've never been this hostile/mean nor this apathetic towards a game before.

XV where he was SK.  I'm getting a very similar vibe.

[Insomniac]

How many more until I can hammer Cuzz? It's the only thing I'm waiting for before checking out of this game.

Like I don't know what's going on man, but you've never been this hostile/mean nor this apathetic towards a game before.

XV where he was SK.  I'm getting a very similar vibe.

I didn't remember him being hostile though to this degree. He was trying to mimick my play from XIV, and I wasn't hostile/mean I was just frustrated.

[Cuzz]

So, conflicting. On the other hand I feel like trying to feel it out and being careful with my votes given it's a new setup. On the other hand, no games never get anywhere unless people actually commit to voting for the people they find scummy, so eh. But, the first half of day 1 should run pretty close to how it normally would, except no "lock" situation will ever be reached which never was an issue in blitz in the first place.

I would like EVERYONE to comment on this post and how it reflects on Eevee.

Seems a little fake, but it's Eevee. Definitely got a knee-jerk scummy vibe from it at first, but I get these from Eevee's tone sometimes and he's been town in every game I've played with him.

[Cuzz]

Additionally I would like everyone to weigh in on how Robz/Mcmc/Galz all reacted to the theory that gave town a guaranteed win.

Slight townvibe from Robz and mcmc. Slight scumvibe from Galz.

[Cuzz]

Dang it!  So much talk and theory talk and things.  I REALLY wanted to claim "Station aligned" cause "I just saw green so I went oh ok I'm station aligned I didn't think it was called town in this game" but it seems I am too late to troll...

On a serious note, I didn't actually think of the game breaking nature that comes with the multiple votes but I have done some thinking of the interesting hammerer gets vengekilled aspect.  If I'm not mistaken this means that scum cant hammer scum or they lose.  I think this is a tool we can exploit as town, and given that we do have an IC it will make things easier.  I was thinking about some kind of game plan:

1) Dude gets to L-1.
2) Someone states intent to hammer
3) IC picks someone from wagon that he finds scummy and forces them to hammer.

Something along those lines.  I am up for refining this plan.

POINT 2:
There are 3 town deaths every day/night cycle no matter what we do so we will never make it to Day 3.

I like this idea.

[Insomniac]

Reviewed MXV Galz does seem a bit more attacky there then I remember him being.

[Insomniac]

The difference is there he attacked ehunt because he genuinely thought ehunt was scum. and it still seemed less personal.

[Cuzz]

I think it got to the point where it was obvious that the game needed a fix, and scum have a little more reason to want it fixed than Town do. So explicitly explaining how the game is broken and how Town can immediately win on day one could come from scum.  I mean, you could say that scum would say "Nah that wouldn't work let's not do that", but that wouldn't be very smart. So I'd say it's a pretty null read for all. Except, you know, Insom.

Slightly disagree. Scum would have had to be banking on the fact that the rules would need to change, which is not necessarily the obvious assumption. Otherwise they would keep their mouths shut and hope town never found tis idea.

[Cuzz]

Sorry for my totally out of context catchup posts here.

[Galzria]

How many more until I can hammer Cuzz? It's the only thing I'm waiting for before checking out of this game.

Like I don't know what's going on man, but you've never been this hostile/mean nor this apathetic towards a game before.

Sure, whatever.

Will you give me those blinders when your done?

You want to know why I only had two damn posts? Because I've seen you pull this shit too many times. When you started you already had a scum read I knew EXACTLY why it was on me. What the hell was I supposed to say? I was condemned for actually answering honestly to the Eevee question, and from trying to make sure you didn't get egg all over your face by getting played by scum in a break-the-game scenario.

Honestly, next time when you ask a question - whatever it is - I'm just going to lie in my answer to you. Because in the backward world you play in that's the townie thing to do.

Yes, I'm pissed that you KEEP making the same damn mistakes. You've NEVER caught scum out this way, and you won't here either.

But what was I supposed to say? "Oh look, Insomniac is going to say I'm scummy because X, Y and Z"? Fuck that. I was backed into a corner the moment I bothered to post anything - and yeah, that's a hell of a disincentive to bother to post anything else. You condemned me for the same reasons you always think you're condemning scum but never actually do.

So yeah. You'll lynch me, or I'll get Vengekilled. I really don't give a damn. Tell me who to hammer and my vote is there, or just lynch me now. At this point it's whatever.

And yes, I have gotten really pissed off once before. It was at Robz in a different Blitz game. I don't remember which one. Ashersky was the IC. Ask Robz and Eevee about it, they'll remember.

[Cuzz]

I remember way back in blitz whatever, Eevee wanted to play "Sheep the IC", and even though almost every single person in the game disagreed with him, he absolutely would not back down over why it was a good idea. He was, of course, town.

Town!Eevee comes into new setups looking for the optimal play. If he thinks he's found it, he'll pursue it relentlessly. He has complete conviction in his ideas, regardless of what others think.

Here I get more of a sense that he was testing the waters, trying to see where people stand on how to use their votes. This slightly hedgy "maybe this way... But then maybe this way..." Eevee doesn't read as the same Eevee that takes his convictions and runs with them.

So I get a slight - SLIGHT - scum vibe from it. Because honestly at the end of the day this could just as easily be Town!Eevee just being uncomfortable with a new setup. In the end, it's not worth a vote over, but it does make me more aware of him.

I disagree with Galzria A LOT here. First of all, I did back down some from my stance, I went from "I'm think we should do this!" to "well, all of you can't be scum so it seems I'm wrong. I'm looking  forward to the end of the game so I can hear what people really really thought." I was surprised no one was even lying but you all actually thought the idea was THAT bad. I never quite understood why, although I did come around to thinking "meh, it's probably not good either". We are building up a sample size though, at least my idea would have guaranteed town >50% to win. .. not really, we'll never get enough games in to meaningfully analyze the winning probabilities of different factions. But, I digress!

I DO NOT think I'm the kind of guy who has complete conviction in my own ideas. On the contrary, as I explained above, I think I'm for the most part the kind of guy who does his best work through analyzing the work of others. I've pursued some town reads of mine relentlessly, but that's about the extent of relentlessness I've gone to in any of my 15 games, other than the IC thing which I think you mischaracterized. I don't know if you having a different view on my personality than I thought you would is really scummy, but everyone likes talking about themselves so I digress again. I guess it's slightly scummy, but I have the bias of always thinking "makes sense to me = town, doesn't make sense to me = scum" (which usually earns you a free town read), so I don't I'm wary. Seriously, do others think I'm the kind of guy who "takes his convictions and runs with them?" I thought I was always accused of being the exact opposite, too hedgy. And for what it's worth, I don't think being hedgy about "should we vote a lot or not in this new setup" is an alignment tell at all. I just typed out what I was mulling over in my head.
tions.) Side note, announcing your exact schedule like this is funny and weird. Feels like I do this in every Blitz game.

Now that Eevee points this out, I also really disagree with Galz about this aspect of Eevee's meta. Not sure how much it means though.

[jotheonah]

Does this Galz/Insom fight make more sense with the context of previous blitz games? Because it seems really weird to me.

[Insomniac]

How many more until I can hammer Cuzz? It's the only thing I'm waiting for before checking out of this game.

Like I don't know what's going on man, but you've never been this hostile/mean nor this apathetic towards a game before.

Sure, whatever.

Will you give me those blinders when your done?

You want to know why I only had two damn posts? Because I've seen you pull this shit too many times. When you started you already had a scum read I knew EXACTLY why it was on me. What the hell was I supposed to say? I was condemned for actually answering honestly to the Eevee question, and from trying to make sure you didn't get egg all over your face by getting played by scum in a break-the-game scenario.

Honestly, next time when you ask a question - whatever it is - I'm just going to lie in my answer to you. Because in the backward world you play in that's the townie thing to do.

Yes, I'm pissed that you KEEP making the same damn mistakes. You've NEVER caught scum out this way, and you won't here either.

But what was I supposed to say? "Oh look, Insomniac is going to say I'm scummy because X, Y and Z"? Fuck that. I was backed into a corner the moment I bothered to post anything - and yeah, that's a hell of a disincentive to bother to post anything else. You condemned me for the same reasons you always think you're condemning scum but never actually do.

So yeah. You'll lynch me, or I'll get Vengekilled. I really don't give a damn. Tell me who to hammer and my vote is there, or just lynch me now. At this point it's whatever.

And yes, I have gotten really pissed off once before. It was at Robz in a different Blitz game. I don't remember which one. Ashersky was the IC. Ask Robz and Eevee about it, they'll remember.

First of all "or I'll get Vengekilled." Only if Im right.

Second of all, don't lie, everything I accused you of a townie Galz could have done. I believe Townie Galz would do X, Y or Z or some combination there of, but here on day 1 doing X Y and Z is all I've got and in a game where there isn't much posting I have to think scum was perfectly happy letting town lurk itself to death, which you were definitely contributing to. Now add to the pile reason Q that Galzria does have a history of being mean when he's scum and it's like I have these 4 glaring reasons to lynch you.

You want the blinders? You're the one that gave them to me by personally attacking me. You want to say I'm wrong say that, don't attack me for making a perfectly good case.

Lastly? Fuck you for making this personal. I accused you for in game reasons, you attacked me for my meta.

[Insomniac]

Unvote: All
Vote: Galzria

Request Replacement - I will continue to play until one is found. But it's not fair to the rest of the players that I remain in.

[Robz888]

Guys, let's please not do this.

[TheMunch]

Guys, let's please not do this.

Agreed.  I thought the game was great until mommy and daddy started fighting .

[Robz888]

Guys, let's please not do this.

Agreed.  I thought the game was great until mommy and daddy started fighting .

It's because the Blitz games just turn up the pressure to some breaking point, I think. Wish they weren't turning out like this. People need to not take things personally. Though I certainly understand it, I have taken things personally before.

[Cuzz]

I sorta agree with robz on this, but cuzz isn't helping us any as town, any thoughts of getting cuzz on to hammer galz instead?

I'll hammer anyone we like, but based on recent experience, blind rage is more of a towntell.

[Insomniac]

Guys, let's please not do this.

Agreed.  I thought the game was great until mommy and daddy started fighting .

It's because the Blitz games just turn up the pressure to some breaking point, I think. Wish they weren't turning out like this. People need to not take things personally. Though I certainly understand it, I have taken things personally before.

It's not just blitz games, the normal mafia games have been much more heated recently as well. MXIV, MXV and MXIX are all fairly recent real examples of that, and its why I'm taking a break from forum mafia when my games finish up.

[Jorbles]

Unvote: All
Vote: Galzria

Request Replacement - I will continue to play until one is found. But it's not fair to the rest of the players that I remain in.

I'm going to leave this for a bit until ashersky checks in, but for now if people could just take a break and keep things civil. Remember the golden rule.

[Robz888]

Maybe I have a higher tolerance for indignant rage, but I haven't found M-XIV, M-XV, or M-XIX to be particularly wrathful.

[Galzria]

Yeah, I did, because I've been town EVERY time you've been an IC, and I'vw watched you do there exact same damn thing game, after game, after game. If I was scum ANY of those times I really wouldn't care. But I've never been and I'm not now and you've NEVER BEEN RIGHT. And it's frustrating as hell.

And yes, I'll be Vengekilled or lynched. Because if I hammer X and they flip town you'll lynch me next anyway. My statement is true.

And you still haven't told me how the hell I was supposed to respond. Did your case have merit? Yeah, of course it did. I saw that the moment you said "I've got a scum read". It's what pissed me off to begin with. Because it's exactly how you've tried and failed to catch scum in the past.

I was online when the game-break debate was happening. I could've said nothing. But I decided to post to make sure YOU didn't end up screwing things up. I looked for FLAWS. But hey, I must be scum who was panicking. Because as scum I would COMPLETELY expect the mods to let a game breaking design flaw continue.

Honestly, THINK. You're not freaking stupid!

Then you asked a question about Eevee. How should I have responded? Obviously not answering is condemning. But answering honestly is as well. What your actual case boils down to is this:

"I think Galzria is an idiot who panicked as scum when he thought the game was broken in the first 5 posts. Additionally, I scum Galz would jump at the opportunity to pander to me by calling Eevee's post scummy."

You set me up to fail no matter WHAT I said after that. You made it completely clear I was scum already in your eyes BEFORE YOU EVER EVEN POSTED YOUR CASE.

So honestly I just want to be killed at this point so that you can see my flip. Good 'ol Vanilla Town.

[mcmcsalot]

I'm trying to leave emotions out of this, sorry if thats the stupid way to do it but I'm not counting any of this argument that involves personal attacks. If I did I would say galz is obvi town I can't ever imagine him getting this upset and mean if he was mafia. But this is a game and as a game it is the goal of mafia to survive and trick and lie, so as a game and not a personal attack I still think galz over defensiveness is a scummy sign.

Moving on to other thought, early inthe game joth deflected my first post about lynching lurkers saying this is a veteran game and mafia is probably posting. I think this could be scum joth protecting cuzz.

I believe the scum is somewhere in galz, joth, cuzz. I would support cuzz to hammer galz and joth to hammer cuzz.

[Galzria]

Look, Insomniac, I'm sorry I've been personal with you here. I was already upset from just the TWO questions you asked yesterday because I ALREADY saw this coming. I feel like it's history repeating itself again and again and again and the damn result never changes.

I'm not scum. Not here, not this time.

I understand completely WHY you made the case on me you did, and it's why I only had two posts - because I honestly don't feel like I can refute it. It's wrong. It's well intentioned, and it's meant to catch scum, but it's wrong.

I made two posts this game before today trying to be as honest and open as I could. I tried to find flaws in your plan because I didn't WANT to see you fail. I honestly thought scum could daytalk to coordinate the mass town hammer. But you saw that as scum panicking. Sure, I see where you're coming from. It makes ME mad because I didn't have to post anything at all, but you've been a good friend here and I've been town every time you've been an IC. I didn't honestly didn't want you to fail again.

The second post was your "trap". I HATE town-gambits like that. I was called am idiot way back in M-VI for trying the same sort of thing on Robz (didn't work for me either). They work SO rarely, and you're basically asking for town to give you an honest opinion, but you're not interested in reading the response itself - you've already decided "X response = scum". I'm town. I answered you honestly. I'm sorry you don't believe that but it's true. You'll see that when I flip.

It's not just you with these Gambits though. It's the nature of them in general. They don't work. For me, this has focused in on you BECAUSE I've been town each time you've been an IC. It still doesn't excuse me being mean to you, so I'm sorry.

I don't want you to take a break from these games. I don't want anybody to. I'm INCREDIBLY frustrated over feeling like I never even had a chance to SHOW you that I was town this game - and that frustration began last night. But you still don't deserve to be attacked over it.

You're wrong if you think scum Galz would get THIS frustrated. But I won't convince you of it until I flip. I've probably done myself no favors here anyway. I was just really looking forward to this setup, but felt cornered and unable to participate freely from the moment it began.

[Insomniac]

Robz - you've never been the rager nor the target of it, but many people have commented that games are getting more personal than they were.

Galz - Lets assume that you have been completely honest and town. I appreciate your honesty. Like I said I don't think looking for flaws is bad, nor is thinking eevee was scum bad. As I've said I think the combination of them was bad.

Now lets look at why I thought those things were scummy.
Flaws - There are 2 ways I suspect scum would have reacted to the game breaking strategy. They would have a) Tried to stop town from doing it by pointing out flaws or b) Completely stayed out of the conversation. B is not useful online because I have no record of who was online and not participating that could have. So I'm going to look for A in the people that were participating.

Eevee - I asked this question and phrased it in a way that I was trying to appear biased in that I thought Eevee was scummy for it. I did not. I suspect scum would have answered this question by saying he looked scummy BECAUSE of how I phrased it. That doesn't stop you as a townie from also expressing a scum read on him.

Post Count - Man this is blitz mafia, low counts are common the first bit of the day but ever since the blitz where I was a mason with sfs and CF robz were scummy but the scum was actually ALL THREE lurkers (Jimm, Grujah, Sparky) and since then yuma has pointed out that EVERY BLITZ GAME SINCE a policy of LaLL would result in a town win. So if you have TWO posts when the median post count is 13 man thats criminal.

I think if you take out the personal attacks from your responses they have been about what I was looking for but like man when your throwing in personal attacks it's just gonna piss me off.



PPE: Galz 2.

Thanks for the appology. I am also sorry for the things I've said that may have been hurtful. And yes you are one of my favourite people to play mafia with which is why I took it probably a bit more personal that I should have.

I didn't feel like it was a strong scum read on you until this morning when I compiled things. I'm willing to reconsider that obviously just like in the blitz game where I was masons with SFS and I was dead set on CF as scum, until I wasn't and I was deadset on CF as town.

[Cuzz]

I don't want to fan any flames here, but these posts are taking place in the game thread and as part of the game we use them to interpret alignment. And I just don't see any way Galz is scum here. Insomniac is IC so this is not possibly a planned confrontation between scumpartners. And most importantly, I think it would be in pretty poor taste for Galz or anyone to fake the level of anger he's expressed here as scum.

I really do think we should all remember the golden rule though and try to get back to having fun. And I really hope my argument above doesn't inspire anyone to try to fake posts like this as a scum tactic in the future, as that's a bad road to go down.

[mcmcsalot]

Look, Insomniac, I'm sorry I've been personal with you here. I was already upset from just the TWO questions you asked yesterday because I ALREADY saw this coming. I feel like it's history repeating itself again and again and again and the damn result never changes.

I'm not scum. Not here, not this time.

I understand completely WHY you made the case on me you did, and it's why I only had two posts - because I honestly don't feel like I can refute it. It's wrong. It's well intentioned, and it's meant to catch scum, but it's wrong.

I made two posts this game before today trying to be as honest and open as I could. I tried to find flaws in your plan because I didn't WANT to see you fail. I honestly thought scum could daytalk to coordinate the mass town hammer. But you saw that as scum panicking. Sure, I see where you're coming from. It makes ME mad because I didn't have to post anything at all, but you've been a good friend here and I've been town every time you've been an IC. I didn't honestly didn't want you to fail again.

The second post was your "trap". I HATE town-gambits like that. I was called am idiot way back in M-VI for trying the same sort of thing on Robz (didn't work for me either). They work SO rarely, and you're basically asking for town to give you an honest opinion, but you're not interested in reading the response itself - you've already decided "X response = scum". I'm town. I answered you honestly. I'm sorry you don't believe that but it's true. You'll see that when I flip.

It's not just you with these Gambits though. It's the nature of them in general. They don't work. For me, this has focused in on you BECAUSE I've been town each time you've been an IC. It still doesn't excuse me being mean to you, so I'm sorry.

I don't want you to take a break from these games. I don't want anybody to. I'm INCREDIBLY frustrated over feeling like I never even had a chance to SHOW you that I was town this game - and that frustration began last night. But you still don't deserve to be attacked over it.

You're wrong if you think scum Galz would get THIS frustrated. But I won't convince you of it until I flip. I've probably done myself no favors here anyway. I was just really looking forward to this setup, but felt cornered and unable to participate freely from the moment it began.

The issue with the amount of emotion and the reason I'm throwing it out as a way to clear you of being scum is because I sort of find it cheating. I agree I barely know you but I don't see you being mean and upset because your about to be killed as scum, I am almost certain due to that response that your town. I am throwing that whole argument out however because I could do the same thing and I believe it breaks the game. You are essential saying trust me guys i'm town, you've sworn your town and have explained everything you have done is because you were frustrated you were going to be mislynched. This as an argument alone is a poor argument that you are town, this is a pretty typical scum defense. The amount of emotion you put into makes us bring the character of you as a person outside the game into it and puts us in a terrible position. I could swear to robby on our parents lives I am town, if I'm town and robby trusts me I basically cheated if I'm scum and I trick robby with it I am a terrible person for resorting to that low of a trick.

Whether you are scum or not I don't think you realized the situation your argument was going to create and this is why I am throwing it out.

[Galzria]

For what it's worth as well:

While I disagree with the first two pieces of your case - because I know they're wrong - I would still lynch me over only having two posts. You're absolutely correct that it was an inexcusable number, regardless of anything else.

Moving forward, I will hammer whoever you ask me to. If you want to lynch me first then I completely understand. I don't feel that I have much credibility at this point to "help" you find scum - but my hammering and being Vengekilled is honestly (from my perspective) the best possible outcome. It removes me from the conversation and the game while also lynching scum.

Completely untainted and input free: Give me a name and I'll hammer.

---

Also, I feel I should point out something else broken so that you can prevent scum from taking advantage:

Insist the lynch target self-vote. That way if the lynch is on scum and he thinks you'll have a partner hammer him, he can't self-hammer to remove the Vengekill.

[Jorbles]

Vote Count 1.6:

Robz888 (0) -
Eevee (0) -
Galzria (4) - Eevee, Galzria, TheMunch, Insomniac (L-1)
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (0) -
Jimmmmm (0) -
TheMunch (1) - jotheonah
Cuzz (2) - Eevee, jotheonah
mcmcsalot (0) -

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

[Insomniac]

Unvote: Galzria

[mcmcsalot]

I really do think we should all remember the golden rule though and try to get back to having fun. And I really hope my argument above doesn't inspire anyone to try to fake posts like this as a scum tactic in the future, as that's a bad road to go down.

This is my big issue, if we clear galz using this method its a bit game breaking, I suggest noone, town or scum uses arguments like this to make there alignment clear in the future.

[Insomniac]

Galz isn't the lynch nor the hammerer. so if everyone on him could please unvote.

[Eevee]

unvote: Galzria

I'm keeping up from phone, or at least trying to. I agree it doesn't look terribly likely galz is scum.

[Insomniac]

I really do think we should all remember the golden rule though and try to get back to having fun. And I really hope my argument above doesn't inspire anyone to try to fake posts like this as a scum tactic in the future, as that's a bad road to go down.

This is my big issue, if we clear galz using this method its a bit game breaking, I suggest noone, town or scum uses arguments like this to make there alignment clear in the future.

The problem is emotion is real. Anyone who fakes it to the extent Galz and I did well thats not cool. I don't like it to be an emotion game but sometimes it happens, and a side effect is I'm fairly confident that Galz is town.

[mcmcsalot]

Insist the lynch target self-vote. That way if the lynch is on scum and he thinks you'll have a partner hammer him, he can't self-hammer to remove the Vengekill.

If lynch is on scum and he self votes it does remove the vengekill on his partner, but he could only do this after he knows who will hammer him, this would out his partner in the process, merely delaying the game.

[Insomniac]

Maybe I have a higher tolerance for indignant rage, but I haven't found M-XIV, M-XV, or M-XIX to be particularly wrathful.

I realized this isn't true, I offended you in the game where I was a mason where you were town because I said your play was awful if you are town.

[Insomniac]

How much time do we have here?

Oh also Retract: Replace out

[mcmcsalot]

well then back to my argument that joth is scummy from the things he was posting in the beggining, he said he no longer had a town read on me for a reason I don't understand, he seems confused about the hammer/vengekill thing which is an easy way for scum to look towny and mostly he deflected when I said we should look at the low posters to lynch. Joth could be scum partner with cuzz trying to delays/ease suspicion until cuzz got here.

[Eevee]

How much time do we have here?

Oh also Retract: Replace out

Like 6 hours iirc.

Glad you are staying with us, Ins. Cool, cool cool cool.

[Eevee]

Yeah, let's talk about joth. Now that galz looks townier, I rather agree with his case on joth.

[Galzria]

Unvote: All

Mcmc - scum could self hammer before any names came out if he even THOUGHT it was likely Insomniac would name a teammate.

It's unlikely, but there's no reason not to avoid it by forcing a self vote.

[mcmcsalot]

I think joth is a good lynch target, though I want to here insom and robz thoughts on it, robz hasn't posted much about joth so far.

My next question is do we find cuzz scummy for his lateness, his post since ariving strike me as town though it would be easy to fake coming in this late. And do we use galzria's master plan to have joth self vote hammer and not risk losing someone or do we have cuzz hammer thinking there scum team.

Eevee you said you would hammer if asked by insom, you also said you would not self vote, I agreed with this at the time self voting is never pro town, how do you feel in this situation.

[Galzria]

Oh, and RL related:

FUCK! I killed the battery to my car, which I was using to charge my phone as I'm not at home or the office. I forgot to turn headlights off.

[mcmcsalot]

Unvote: All

Mcmc - scum could self hammer before any names came out if he even THOUGHT it was likely Insomniac would name a teammate.

It's unlikely, but there's no reason not to avoid it by forcing a self vote.

this is a possibility, bt scum self hammering isn't the worst thing in the world for us. We don't get the insta win but we also save a teammate. Pretending this is a normal D1 and both people we guess are mafia, chances of us actually finding the two mafia are slim, so finding a loophole around the scum vengekill is actually a plus in my book.

[jotheonah]

So is this the part where I fly into a blind irrational rage and then suddenly you all have a magical townread on me? Because that should be fun.

[mcmcsalot]

Oh, and RL related:

FUCK! I killed the battery to my car, which I was using to charge my phone as I'm not at home or the office. I forgot to turn headlights off.

we really need a soft deadline due to stuff like this, we need everyone here at deadline or we could get screwed

[Insomniac]

Like I guess Joth answered the eevee question the same way galz did with more hedge. So I did actually have a scum read from that, but his other posts struck me as more townie.

[mcmcsalot]

So is this the part where I fly into a blind irrational rage and then suddenly you all have a magical townread on me? Because that should be fun.

ugh and this is what I was worried about, this is why I wanted to throw out galz's emotional defense. Other people did not want to do this, which I understand, but there's no point in me pretending I didn't read it if no one else is going to.

In summary all I can say is please don't?

[Eevee]

I'd rather just play the setup as it was intended and not force our mod to alter the rules again ("last non-self voter gets vengekilled").

Wait, scum can just refuse to vote for themselves, that would be a weird situation. Hmm.

[jotheonah]

I really do think we should all remember the golden rule though and try to get back to having fun. And I really hope my argument above doesn't inspire anyone to try to fake posts like this as a scum tactic in the future, as that's a bad road to go down.

This is my big issue, if we clear galz using this method its a bit game breaking, I suggest noone, town or scum uses arguments like this to make there alignment clear in the future.

The problem is emotion is real. Anyone who fakes it to the extent Galz and I did well thats not cool. I don't like it to be an emotion game but sometimes it happens, and a side effect is I'm fairly confident that Galz is town.

this is, quite frankly, bullshit.

Galzria has not convinced me he's town, and I don't think we should reward what I can only call bad sportsmanship. Vote: Galzria

[Eevee]

So is this the part where I fly into a blind irrational rage and then suddenly you all have a magical townread on me? Because that should be fun.

ugh and this is what I was worried about, this is why I wanted to throw out galz's emotional defense. Other people did not want to do this, which I understand, but there's no point in me pretending I didn't read it if no one else is going to.

In summary all I can say is please don't?

Pretty sure joth was kidding.

[Insomniac]

So is this the part where I fly into a blind irrational rage and then suddenly you all have a magical townread on me? Because that should be fun.

ugh and this is what I was worried about, this is why I wanted to throw out galz's emotional defense. Other people did not want to do this, which I understand, but there's no point in me pretending I didn't read it if no one else is going to.

In summary all I can say is please don't?

He was kidding I think

[mcmcsalot]

Well, like I said I'm willing to throw out the emotional case, I'm willing to believe galz is still mafia, if he is I still don't want him lynched immediatly, I would support galz lynch cuzz, joth lynch galz. If eevee and insom want to believe galz I would say cuzz lynch joth, galz lynch cuzz.

[jotheonah]

Actually, I was kidding, but also, I'm really not kidding.

Because basically what we're doing now is we're rewarding Galz for playing in a really unfun way, and for basically breaking the Golden Rule and that's a terrible precedent.

And if it worked to get the lynch off Galz, despite all the evidence against him, why wouldn't it work to get the lynch off me? So let's all take turns throwing hissy fits until we hit the deadline!

[TheMunch]

My vote stays on Galzria.  I actually agree with joth (although I still think he is also probably scum) that the Galz vs Insom thing did nothing to change my opinion of Galz alignment.  I dont actually support Cuzz lynching anymore and dont know why thats still a thing.  He was called out cause he had 0 posts... then he posted.  Reading what Cuzz actually said I dont find him particularly scummy, a null read.  I think we should deal with Joth and Galzria.

[jotheonah]

Agreed on that point at least. Unvote: Cuzz

[Insomniac]

Because basically what we're doing now is we're rewarding Galz for playing in a really unfun way, and for basically breaking the Golden Rule and that's a terrible precedent.

Agreed, but its not like I didn't break it in response (eventually), and we aren't gonna lynch an IC

And if it worked to get the lynch off Galz, despite all the evidence against him, why wouldn't it work to get the lynch off me? So let's all take turns throwing hissy fits until we hit the deadline!

I don't know about you but I can't fake that kind of emotion as scum because when people call me scum theres that thing in the back of my head going yup.

[mcmcsalot]

Okay, with joth's recent posts I find him scummy, i'm now fine with with anything involving cuzz hammering joth. If we want joth to hammer galz first thats fine by me.

[jotheonah]

And you don't think maybe Galzria channeled the very real anger of being called out early as scum into anger about being wrongly accused?

[mcmcsalot]

Vote: Joth
Vote: Galzria

[Insomniac]

And you don't think maybe Galzria channeled the very real anger of being called out early as scum into anger about being wrongly accused?

Dude man theorel caught me in the first post of MXII. I wasn't mad.

[ashersky]

Fully available in about an hour.

[Jorbles]

Vote Count 1.7:

Robz888 (0) -
Eevee (0) -
Galzria (3) - TheMunch, jotheonah, mcmcsalot
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (1) - mcmcsalot
Jimmmmm (0) -
TheMunch (1) - jotheonah
Cuzz (1) - Eevee
mcmcsalot (0) -

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

[Cuzz]

So is this the part where I fly into a blind irrational rage and then suddenly you all have a magical townread on me? Because that should be fun.

No, see this is what no one wants to see happen in the future. mcmc called it "gamebreaking." I think it would be more "communitybreaking."

[Robz888]

Sorry, fell behind, just caught up, very busy day at work today.

[Robz888]

I mean, I completely agree with Joth in principal. And blind emotional rage DOES work for scum trying not to look scummy. Ehunt did it to me in M-XVI (though not to this insane extent). Still, Galzria is probably town here.

Joth is certainly town, though.

I think Cuzz's sudden appearance was more scummy than townish. Like "Oh crap, I have to play this game, I'm scum!" Sort of thing.

I also have a big scumread on my brother, mainly for pushing that scumtell case against me that made no sense to me.

Who do you want me to vote for, Insomniac?

[TheMunch]

My vote isn't on Joth.  Vote: Jotheonah.  Now it is.

[jotheonah]

And you don't think maybe Galzria channeled the very real anger of being called out early as scum into anger about being wrongly accused?

Dude man theorel caught me in the first post of MXII. I wasn't mad.

Well, when I get caught as scum I do tend to get mad. So I guess the relevant question is "does Galz." And the answer is "He did that one time when he was SK."

[jotheonah]

I'm sorry, why does everyone suddenly think I'm scum?

[Robz888]

And you don't think maybe Galzria channeled the very real anger of being called out early as scum into anger about being wrongly accused?

Dude man theorel caught me in the first post of MXII. I wasn't mad.

Well, when I get caught as scum I do tend to get mad. So I guess the relevant question is "does Galz." And the answer is "He did that one time when he was SK."

That's true.

Galz has also resorted to not bolding his vote because he didn't actually want it to count (but wanted people to think it did). Nothing illegal about that, but it goes to show that Galz will go to extreme lengths to win.

[mcmcsalot]

Robz i'm honestly shocked about your scumread on me ive explained my observation of you "scumslip" was merely to gauge your reaction. Also we agree that cuzz is still scummy, I only didn't vote for him because I fully expect him to die when he hammers joth.

[Insomniac]

I'm sorry, why does everyone suddenly think I'm scum?

I don't . I thought that you were scummy when you answered the Eevee question but your posts after that looked townie

[Robz888]

I'm sorry, why does everyone suddenly think I'm scum?

Because you didn't swear and threaten to quit. I'll help you out. Jotheonah, your mother is a whore.

[Robz888]

/kidding obviously.

[mcmcsalot]

I find you scummy for your deflection of the post about lurkers and the way you acted when we were all talking about hammer possibilities

[Insomniac]

Can I go back to rolling VT in these games I hate being IC 

[mcmcsalot]

I find you scummy for your deflection of the post about lurkers and the way you acted when we were all talking about hammer possibilities

This refers to joth sorry for not specifying. Also I still don't see how joth hammer galz, cuzz hammer joth doesn't really work out for us.

[Robz888]

Can I go back to rolling VT in these games I hate being IC 

Being an IC is a horrible obligation, I do agree about that.

[Galzria]

Joth, you're right of course, but I don't know what you want me to do about it here.

Insomniac, I think I should hammer whoever we lynch. Yes, trying to force scum to lynch scum is ideal, but if we hit scum it fairly removes me from the game.

[Eevee]

Woah Robz, what have I missed! Why is joth certainly town?

[jotheonah]

Yeah, Robz, why is me certainly town?

[Robz888]

Woah Robz, what have I missed! Why is joth certainly town?

I'll go back and pull up his posts.

[Robz888]

He tried to restart the conversation today. Scum don't do that.

12 hours to go. What shall we talk about?

[Robz888]

Jokey Jo is town Jo:

Strong scumread on Insom, clearly






 

[Robz888]

More Joth's usual self:

Holy crazy defensive selfvote, Batman! I think we've caught a live one.

It can't be this easy.

[Robz888]

Finally, some sound analysis:

So this hammer thing:


Best case scenario - Cuzz-Galz scum team. Galz hammers, we win. So obviously Galz will try to talk his way out of the hammer. Presumably in that case we let someone else hammer and then we lynch Galz.

Galz is scum, Cuzz is town - Galz will happily hammer, and we'll have to lynch Galz (if we still think he's scum)

Galz is town, Cuzz is scum - Galz may or may not agree to hammer. If he does, he'll die (which is bad, although it does save us mislynching him). If he doesn't, he'll look really scummy and we'll lynch him.

Both of them are town - We'll probably still end up lynching Galz next.

So it seems to me like in almost any scenario, we end up having to do a Galz lynch anyway. The only scenario that lets us kill him is one where he's town, and therefore we don't want to. Why is this a good plan?

[Robz888]

Also, the "well I have to be angry now that being angry got Galz off the hook" is clearly not a scum reaction. Scum would think they have to do the opposite; nobody is getting off twice in a row for angry behavior.

[Insomniac]

Cuzz are you scum?

[Cuzz]

Cuzz are you scum?

Nope.

[Cuzz]

Cuzz are you scum?

Nope.

I realize I have been kinda useless here though. In the future I think blitz is not for me. I'll volunteer to be the hammer on anyone you like.

[Insomniac]

ok my reads

Robz888 - Mid Town, Robz lurks as scum
Eevee - Null
Galzria - Strong town
Insomniac (Insom) - lol obv town
jotheonah - probs town
Jimmmmm - Null
TheMunch slight town had some good ides
Cuzz - slight scum, showed up late
mcmcsalot  - still townie but not as strong.

[Insomniac]

So what I think I actually want is a Jimmm lynch.

[Insomniac]

And I think I want Eevee or Cuzz to hammer. Thoughts?

[Robz888]

And I think I want Eevee or Cuzz to hammer. Thoughts?

I am hugely in favor of lynching Jimm, actually. I didn't exactly even remember he was playing. He has had zero impact on the game so far, despite being around.

[Robz888]

Vote: Jimm, there you go.

[Cuzz]

Fine with this. Vote: Jimmmmm

[Cuzz]

Unvote

I'm an idiot

[Insomniac]

Vote: Jimmm

should we get Cuzz or Eevee to hammer.

[Robz888]

And I think I want Eevee or Cuzz to hammer. Thoughts?

Uh... Cuzz to hammer, of those two. Although I would nominate my brother too.

Are we almost out of time?

[mcmcsalot]

Robz you sound scummier with every post, you just brought up ll of joths posts which are devoid of any information/analysis, his confusion about hammering galz is not analysis as hes wrong, scum galz dies for hammering scum cuzz, scum galz dies when we lynch him second after hammering town cuzz.(note this is just pointing out what would have happened at the time, not that I still want glaz to hammer cuzz) And then you defend him with this is town jo?

[Insomniac]

And I think I want Eevee or Cuzz to hammer. Thoughts?

Uh... Cuzz to hammer, of those two. Although I would nominate my brother too.

Are we almost out of time?

no but the first lynch gives us information for the second we have a little under 5 hours.

[TheMunch]

I have a similar feeling to Robz.  Jimm has had no effect on this game, its bad in a worse way than Cuzz I feel.  Do you need my vote on Jimm?

[mcmcsalot]

i would agree I want cuzz to lynch jimm of the two, and I don't hate the jimm lynch, he has had little impact.

[Insomniac]

I have a similar feeling to Robz.  Jimm has had no effect on this game, its bad in a worse way than Cuzz I feel.  Do you need my vote on Jimm?

Since I don't want you to hammer this is ok with me.

[Insomniac]

Alright lets get Cuzz to hammer Jimmm. (since jimm isn't around he won't self hammer)

But before anyone besides munch adds their vote I'd like Galz and Joths opinions if they are around.

[Cuzz]

Unvote

I'm an idiot

Messed this up. Unvote: Jimmmmm

[jotheonah]

I can get behind this lynch. I would hammer if asked. I think Eevee is an excellent choice to hammer also.

[Insomniac]

I can get behind this lynch. I would hammer if asked. I think Eevee is an excellent choice to hammer also.

Do you prefer Eevee or Cuzz to hammer

[Galzria]

I'm at lunch now (jumped the car, yay!). I still think I should hammer anyone we lynch out of fairness, but I'll defer to Ins.

[Jorbles]

Vote Count 1.8:

Robz888 (0) -
Eevee (0) -
Galzria (3) - TheMunch, jotheonah, mcmcsalot
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (2) - mcmcsalot, TheMunch
Jimmmmm (2) - Robz888, Insomniac
TheMunch (1) - jotheonah
Cuzz (1) - Eevee
mcmcsalot (0) -

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

I think this is correct, make sure your votes are in the right place.

[Insomniac]

I'm at lunch now (jumped the car, yay!). I still think I should hammer anyone we lynch out of fairness, but I'll defer to Ins.

what is your opinion on the jimm lynch. And I want Eevee/Cuzz to hammer as my other scum/null reads.

[mcmcsalot]

vote: jimm

i think im needed for that

[TheMunch]

I was going to vote but so did mcmc.  DO we waqnt me to put him at L1?

[Insomniac]

I was going to vote but so did mcmc.  DO we waqnt me to put him at L1?

not until we decide between cuzz/eevee

[jotheonah]

Robz you sound scummier with every post, you just brought up ll of joths posts which are devoid of any information/analysis, his confusion about hammering galz is not analysis as hes wrong, scum galz dies for hammering scum cuzz, scum galz dies when we lynch him second after hammering town cuzz.(note this is just pointing out what would have happened at the time, not that I still want glaz to hammer cuzz) And then you defend him with this is town jo?

Did you read my post man? All this hammer talk is stuff and nonsense. Scum WON'T hammer their partner, just won't, no matter what. So if you ask someone to hammer and they do it, the only way they'll die is if they're town.

The only good it does is if someone is asked to hammer and refuses and then the person flips scum it proves they're scum too. But in that particular case, we were going to lynch Galz next likely anyway, so it didn't seem like it was actually any different.

[mcmcsalot]

Robz you sound scummier with every post, you just brought up ll of joths posts which are devoid of any information/analysis, his confusion about hammering galz is not analysis as hes wrong, scum galz dies for hammering scum cuzz, scum galz dies when we lynch him second after hammering town cuzz.(note this is just pointing out what would have happened at the time, not that I still want glaz to hammer cuzz) And then you defend him with this is town jo?

Did you read my post man? All this hammer talk is stuff and nonsense. Scum WON'T hammer their partner, just won't, no matter what. So if you ask someone to hammer and they do it, the only way they'll die is if they're town.

The only good it does is if someone is asked to hammer and refuses and then the person flips scum it proves they're scum too. But in that particular case, we were going to lynch Galz next likely anyway, so it didn't seem like it was actually any different.

If we asked galz to hammer cuzz, and cuzz was his partner, and he refused, galz is clear mafia, we then ask cuzz to hammer glaz. If cuzz wont do it wow we found both mafia and we win.

[mcmcsalot]

The way mafia can escape this fate is to say ill hammer anyone and then dodge the hammer issue when it looks like they might have to hammer there partner.

[Insomniac]

Joth: do you prefer Eevee or Cuzz to do the hammer.
Galz same q

[Galzria]

I'm at lunch now (jumped the car, yay!). I still think I should hammer anyone we lynch out of fairness, but I'll defer to Ins.

robz
what is your opinion on the jimm lynch. And I want Eevee/Cuzz to hammer as my other scum/null reads.

Honestly I wasn't focused on scumhunting earlier.

However - if I judge based on people that I can at least draw SOMETHING about (meaning they were willing to talk during everything that happened earlier) - I recall mcmc, cuzz, joth, robz, munch, you and myself.

Eevee and Jimmm are the only two I don't remember even glossing over. Although I honestly was glossing at that time. If we have time I can do a reread after lunch.

[Eevee]

Galzria insising on being the hammer is making him seem increasingly obvtown to me.

I'm okay with the jimm lynch, his play actually fits my scum narrative on him. I'm fine with being the hammer as I earlier said, Cuzz or joth are also fine and dandy options. Galz too if he wants to do it because he feels bad, but I think he is town.

So green light to the jimm lynch, order of preference for the lyncher cuzz-joth-galzria-me.

3g internet being horrible, sorry in advance if
this ends up getting posted multiple times.

..getting this posted has taken me like 15 frustrating minutes and multiple tries.

[Robz888]

You know, I think there's been a lot less of Eevee than I'm used to, but what I have seen wasn't jarringly un-Eevee. I don't know. I guess it doesn't make a huge difference to me which of them hammers.

If I had to go not scummy to scummy, for me it looks like: Joth, Galzria, Munch, Eevee, Mcmc, Cuzz, Jimm

[Eevee]

Except for that one megapost, I've been phone posting this entire game. Very hard to keep up. Also yesterdays efforts were sort of focused on ds9.

[Robz888]

Except for that one megapost, I've been phone posting this entire game. Very hard to keep up. Also yesterdays efforts were sort of focused on ds9.

Yeah, I understand that. Definitely true.

[mcmcsalot]

joth went ofline...

[Robz888]

joth went ofline...

He said he was going offline.

[Galzria]

Ins, between those, PROBABLY Eevee, but I would want to reread.

[mcmcsalot]

I can get behind this lynch. I would hammer if asked. I think Eevee is an excellent choice to hammer also.

oh he answered, insom confused me sorry.

[Insomniac]

alright I would like Eevee to hammer. lets get the d1 data quickly

[mcmcsalot]

i may be victim to the eevee is buddying me therefor I feel he is town but i really felt he was town.

[mcmcsalot]

so munch put him at l-1 and eevee hammer?

[Insomniac]

i may be victim to the eevee is buddying me therefor I feel he is town but i really felt he was town.

I have a null read on him you "cop" your null reads.

so munch put him at l-1 and eevee hammer?

This or cuzz can l-1 him

[Insomniac]

Also be careful folks, if someone other than Eevee hammers, they are next. Period. (Unless they're dead)

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.9:

Robz888 (0) -
Eevee (0) -
Galzria (3) - TheMunch, jotheonah, mcmcsalot
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (1) - TheMunch
Jimmmmm (3) - Robz888, Insomniac, mcmcsalot
TheMunch (1) - jotheonah
Cuzz (1) - Eevee
mcmcsalot (0) -

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

I think this is correct, make sure your votes are in the right place.

[Cuzz]

Want me to vote Jimmmmm?

[mcmcsalot]

what do you mean "cop" my null reads?

[Cuzz]

what do you mean "cop" my null reads?

try to get more info on them.

[TheMunch]

Vote: Jimmm

Go ahead Eevee

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.10:

Robz888 (0) -
Eevee (0) -
Galzria (3) - TheMunch, jotheonah, mcmcsalot
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (1) - TheMunch
Jimmmmm (4) - Robz888, Insomniac, mcmcsalot, TheMunch {L-1}
TheMunch (1) - jotheonah
Cuzz (1) - Eevee
mcmcsalot (0) -

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

I think this is correct, make sure your votes are in the right place.

[Insomniac]

Again thats l-1 folks if someone derps Im going to be very angry

[Cuzz]

Eeeeeeveeeeeeeee doooooooo it.

[mcmcsalot]

I know im spamming the refresh button, hes on mobile so

[Insomniac]

Eevee just as a heads up, failure to comply by 4:50 will be taken as an admission of guilt.

[Insomniac]

(above time is forum time [EST]) or about 30 minutes.

[Robz888]

He's offline. (!)

[Robz888]

Oh, wait he said he is on his phone, so he won't show up as online all the time. I trust he'll come back. Well, unless him and Jimm are scum. Then he won't. And that would be pretty darn lucky.

[Insomniac]

He's offline. (!)

He wasn't when I asked for him to hammer nor when I gave the time limit.

[jotheonah]

hi. I think Eevee should hammer.

Sorry I did leave for a bit, I have to write stories sometimes or they'd fire me I imagine.

[jotheonah]

I really like this job, so I don't want to test it and find out.

[Insomniac]

hi. I think Eevee should hammer.

Sorry I did leave for a bit, I have to write stories sometimes or they'd fire me I imagine.

No worries joth obviously RL takes importance and I figured thats what you meant.

[Insomniac]

Eevee the dominion card list thread doesn't need you

[jotheonah]

Anyway, I'm done with my deadline stuff now. I'm ostensibly spending the next hour working on a feature piece, but, well no one's exactly breathing down my neck on that, as they say.

[Eevee]

sorry here. I'll read all and hammer

[mcmcsalot]

yea completely rescind my comment about being gone you had even already answered the question.

[Insomniac]

oh and btw no matter what we do you guys have to do day 2 without me (I'll be the NK for sure)

[Eevee]

Yeps, nothing dramatic there. Glad to hear joth enjoys his new job. Sorry I disappeared like that (for 15 minutes lol), phone needed charging to make it to the deadline.

Vote: Jimmm, hopefully my last post in the game!

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.11:

Robz888 (0) -
Eevee (0) -
Galzria (3) - TheMunch, jotheonah, mcmcsalot
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (1) - TheMunch
Jimmmmm (5) - Robz888, Insomniac, mcmcsalot, TheMunch, Eevee
TheMunch (1) - jotheonah
Cuzz (1) - Eevee
mcmcsalot (0) -

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

[ashersky]

All, the flip is coming momentarily.  This is the last warning regarding modkills for posting after death.

[ashersky]

The crowds, spanning light years of space, collectively gasped.  A death!  They watched as five of the players dragged Jimmmmm across the area toward a blackened patch of grass.  They pushed his body onto it and recoiled as a white-hot flash of laser light seared his body into dust in front of them.

The heat was intense.  If he had any explosives implanted in his body, they would definitely have exploded.

Humans, you erred.  I guess that means you are.  Ha!  I am funny!

Shut up!

Anyway...humans, you erred.  Jimmmmm, the Vanilla Townie is dead.  Continue.

[TheMunch]

So votes are reset?   Vote: Joth

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.12:

Robz888 (0) -
Eevee (0) -
Galzria (0) -
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (1) - TheMunch
TheMunch (0) -
Cuzz (0) -
mcmcsalot (0) -

With 9 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

[Eevee]

Dangit. Am I next up then?

[mcmcsalot]

Dangit. Am I next up then?

No! can we have cuzz lynch joth now...

[mcmcsalot]

or robz, I didn't like his defense of joth, Robz could lynch joth.

[Insomniac]

Dangit. Am I next up then?

No, you were a null read but that doesn't mean I want to slam you.

Dangit. Am I next up then?

No! can we have cuzz lynch joth now...

Jo is town.

[jotheonah]

THis is the problem with IC sheeping. We didn't really learn anything from Jimmm's wagon. Insom suggested it and we all went along with it.

[mcmcsalot]

Jo is town.

okay no tunneling, why?

[TheMunch]

Insom thinks Jo is town but that doesn't mean Jo is town.

[Eevee]

I might actually like mcmc a lot too. He is just gooood as scum, certainly crafty enough to post good theory despite being scum.

I don't like the situation I'm in now. I feel I look very scummy to everyone. Don't give any town cred to anyone agreeing to hammer me.

[mcmcsalot]

Eevee I don't find you scummy

[Robz888]

I don't find you the most scummy Eevee, settle down.

[Insomniac]

THis is the problem with IC sheeping. We didn't really learn anything from Jimmm's wagon. Insom suggested it and we all went along with it.

Going along with it doesn't make you get off scot free. I intend to do some wagon analysis and see how it matches up with my reads.

[jotheonah]

I might actually like mcmc a lot too. He is just gooood as scum, certainly crafty enough to post good theory despite being scum.

I don't like the situation I'm in now. I feel I look very scummy to everyone. Don't give any town cred to anyone agreeing to hammer me.

Vote: Eevee

You didn't actually look scummy to me before, but thinking everyone thinks you're scummy when they don't is such a scumtell.

Have you guys noticed that the multivoting isn't really changing how we play at all? Do you think that's just habit or something fundamental about the game?

[mcmcsalot]

Going along with it doesn't make you get off scot free. I intend to do some wagon analysis and see how it matches up with my reads.

really... why do you think joth is town

[Insomniac]

The wagon
Robz888, Insomniac, mcmcsalot, TheMunch, Eevee


Cuzz wanted on it. but ended up not needing to be.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.13:

Robz888 (0) -
Eevee (1) - jotheonah
Galzria (0) -
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (1) - TheMunch
TheMunch (0) -
Cuzz (0) -
mcmcsalot (0) -

With 9 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

[Eevee]

Ooooh, okay. I FEEL scummy, for some reason.

I can totally be the hammerer again. Galz is totally off the table and Ins thinking joth is town (Robz agrees) so Munch, cuzz, mcmc or Robz then?

I'd like to see cuzz in a pressure situation because I think I have a good feel of him. This far he is a nullread for me, which means slightly scummy .

[Insomniac]

Going along with it doesn't make you get off scot free. I intend to do some wagon analysis and see how it matches up with my reads.

really... why do you think joth is town

Robz did a good explanation. One you didn't like but its a meta argument, the posts Robz brought up are just such classic town!Jo posts.

[mcmcsalot]

I understand multi vote was supposed to create simultaneous wagons. We put an end to it with our crazy hammer theory talk and reduced the game to a one at a time methodical process instead of the typical I find you scummy therefor I vote you.

[Robz888]

Ooooh, okay. I FEEL scummy, for some reason.

I can totally be the hammerer again. Galz is totally off the table and Ins thinking joth is town (Robz agrees) so Munch, cuzz, mcmc or Robz then?

I'd like to see cuzz in a pressure situation because I think I have a good feel of him. This far he is a nullread for me, which means slightly scummy .

What reason could that be?

[Eevee]

Have we ever even seen scumjoth? I don't claim to read him well at all, but to me those posts just looked like classic jo..

Out for a bit, I'll get back asap .

[Insomniac]

The wagon
Robz888, Insomniac, mcmcsalot, TheMunch, Eevee


Cuzz wanted on it. but ended up not needing to be.

Expanding
Robz888, Insomniac, mcmcsalot, TheMunch, Eevee

Robz was first on, and I don't think he was scummy he would have had to have been like, oh man Insom is seriously gonna drive this wagon its gonna be awesome, so I don't think he should be the first lynch.

mcmcsalot is in a bit of the scummy position so I don't oppose his lynch, Cuzz wanted on the wagon so I'm not sure if he thought Jimm was scum or just wanted to lynch town. TheMunch also wanted on the wagon. Eevee did what he was told so there is a bit less to be learned of Eevee

[Insomniac]

Have we ever even seen scumjoth? I don't claim to read him well at all, but to me those posts just looked like classic jo..

Out for a bit, I'll get back asap .

Yes, MXV and at least one on going game.

[Insomniac]

Have we ever even seen scumjoth? I don't claim to read him well at all, but to me those posts just looked like classic jo..

Out for a bit, I'll get back asap .

Yes, MXV and at least one on going game.

(He is dead there but I like to be vague about on going games)

[ashersky]

A reminder: Deadline in just under 4 hours.

[Eevee]

Ooooh, okay. I FEEL scummy, for some reason.

I can totally be the hammerer again. Galz is totally off the table and Ins thinking joth is town (Robz agrees) so Munch, cuzz, mcmc or Robz then?

I'd like to see cuzz in a pressure situation because I think I have a good feel of him. This far he is a nullread for me, which means slightly scummy .

What reason could that be?

Feeling like I haven't been pulling my weight mostly I guess. Not being sharp, being so easy to get onboard with the towny lynch. Sorry jimm, this reminded me of that one blitz game where you fooled me.

[Insomniac]

Now MCMCs position and joining of the wagon strike me as scummy while I previously had a town read on him.

but Cuzz and Munch are also there.

My feeling currently is MCMC or Munch hammer Cuzz but I'm obviously far more flexible here and want a lot of discussion

[mcmcsalot]

Vote: Joth
Vote: Cuzz
Vote: Robz888

[jotheonah]

Ooooh, okay. I FEEL scummy, for some reason.

OMG what a straight line.

FYI, Eevee, I was never scum for a long time. But I was scum in Pokemon, which is ongoing. And I think ... it seems like ... let me check my quicktopics Oh yeah! I was scum in the switch game with QV and ashersky. ANd of course, I didn't flip in LOLcats and so I'm honor bound not to say what my alignment was in that game as long as its ongoing.

[mcmcsalot]

So your saying my pushing for a lynch on unconfirmed people whos only defense is that thats his meta, makes me scummy

[jotheonah]

did Jimmmm have any reads whatsoever to sheep?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.14:

Robz888 (0) - mcmcsalot
Eevee (1) - jotheonah
Galzria (0) -
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (1) - TheMunch, mcmcsalot
TheMunch (0) -
Cuzz (0) - mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (0) -

With 9 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

[mcmcsalot]

we don't need insom, don't care that hes ic, galz if you suport the joth lynch throw the vote, cuzz and eevee as well. I would like cuzz to hammer but galz could too.

[Insomniac]

we don't need insom, don't care that hes ic, galz if you suport the joth lynch throw the vote, cuzz and eevee as well. I would like cuzz to hammer but galz could too.

Holy. Vote: mom salon

[TheMunch]

All I got is my read on Joth.  He has done nothing to change it, especially his recent reaction to Eevee.

PPE 100% agree with mcmc (which I keep doing and I'm going to be mad if mcmc is actually scum and I'm just getting strung along).  But yeah just because Insom is IC doesn't mean he gets to decide every lynch.  We have the benefit of knowing that hes town so he can ask probing questions and push discussion without the fear of him having an ulterior motive.  But if people think Joth is scum then they should vote joth.  When I came up with my original idea about discussing who gets to hammer, I gave our IC the power to make those choices for us.  I did not and will never give Insom 100% control of who we lynch at all times (that being said I did jump on Jim but it was more Robz' comment then Jimm's which in hindsight was pretty terrible on my part, but you guys also didn't need me cause Cuzz would have done it so whatever)

PPE2 I'm about to say the same thing Insom, be prepared to vote for me too

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.15:

Robz888 (0) - mcmcsalot
Eevee (1) - jotheonah
Galzria (0) -
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (1) - TheMunch, mcmcsalot
TheMunch (0) -
Cuzz (0) - mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (1) - Insomniac

With 9 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

[Robz888]

we don't need insom, don't care that hes ic, galz if you suport the joth lynch throw the vote, cuzz and eevee as well. I would like cuzz to hammer but galz could too.

Holy. Vote: mom salon

Yeah, I do think this scum-bro here.

Vote: Mcmcsalot

I'll unvote and hammer if that's what you want, Insomniac. I think Cuzz and Mcmc are the best lynches, and one should hammer the other. Or Eevee should hammer.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.16:

Robz888 (0) - mcmcsalot
Eevee (1) - jotheonah
Galzria (0) -
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (2) - TheMunch, mcmcsalot
TheMunch (0) -
Cuzz (0) - mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (2) - Insomniac, Robz888

With 9 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

[Galzria]

Ins, can I vote mcmc?

[Robz888]

If I really, really thought Insomniac was wrong, I wouldn't just obey him automatically. But I won't be like scheming about it, I would try to persuade him.

[Insomniac]

Munch. Man like I have no problem with people not agreeing with me. But mom salon is trying to just get joth lynched with no discussion when multiple people have a scum read on him. Not to mention I do think Eevee is scummy for how he reacted so I agree with Jo and robz there.

Robz - nah I think cuzz should hammer this one

PPE: Galz - absolutely

[jotheonah]

I don't think this is scum mcmc. It's just so brazen, leading a revolt against the IC like that.

Munch on the other hand, has been giving me a scummy vibe all day. Vote: TheMunch

If I had to call the team, I'd call it where my two votes are.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.17:

Robz888 (0) - mcmcsalot
Eevee (1) - jotheonah
Galzria (0) -
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (2) - TheMunch, mcmcsalot
TheMunch (1) - jotheonah
Cuzz (0) - mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (2) - Insomniac, Robz888

With 9 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

[Galzria]

Vote: mcmcsalot

[Galzria]

In and around. Phone crapping out on me, but have limited PC access. Will be checking ever few minutes. If there's a question for me, ask away.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.18:

Robz888 (1) - mcmcsalot
Eevee (1) - jotheonah
Galzria (0) -
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (2) - TheMunch, mcmcsalot
TheMunch (1) - jotheonah
Cuzz (1) - mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (3) - Insomniac, Robz888, Galzria

With 9 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

[ashersky]

Too good not to share:

I PMed Jimmmmm regarding the speccy QT.  His response:

Wait, don't tell me I've been lynched!

[Insomniac]

Gals just so that its obvious for everyone me giving you permission to vote mcmc isn't you just sheepin me. You agree with the case and would vote for him if I wasn't an ic?

[Galzria]

Gals just so that its obvious for everyone me giving you permission to vote mcmc isn't you just sheepin me. You agree with the case and would vote for him if I wasn't an ic?

Correct. His "The heck with the IC" is crazy. Too crazy? Maybe. But I can't see a town member actually doing it. I COULD see scum doing so off he honestly thought he could get the support.

[Cuzz]

Gals just so that its obvious for everyone me giving you permission to vote mcmc isn't you just sheepin me. You agree with the case and would vote for him if I wasn't an ic?

Correct. His "The heck with the IC" is crazy. Too crazy? Maybe. But I can't see a town member actually doing it. I COULD see scum doing so off he honestly thought he could get the support.

This is a good point. Lekkit harshy criticizing IC raerae in buffygame read as a big scumtell for me.

[mcmcsalot]

how does this benefit scum

[Insomniac]

how does this benefit scum

If you get support town loses a voice.

[Insomniac]

how does this benefit scum

Not to mention your not willing to talk about it or have any discussion your just like "screw who the ic wants to lynch talk about we're lynching Jo"

[ashersky]

Just under 3 hours until deadline.  Remember, per blitz rules, the one with the most votes still dies.

[mcmcsalot]

insom I'm sorry I presented a case I still have heard nothing to dissuade the fact that joth is scum. You came out of nowhere with a jimm lynch and he was town, yes I agreed I deeply regret this though it would have happened without me. I don't trust your reads, I think there simply wrong and I think that is a complete possibility.

[Insomniac]

Just under 3 hours until deadline.  Remember, per blitz rules, the one with the most votes still dies.

Whats the tie breaker?

[mcmcsalot]

I'm not saying screw who the ic wants to talk about I'm saying you bieng ic doesn't make you infallible

[ashersky]

4.  No unique votes will be counted, and no hidden democracy will be implemented in the case of a tie.  If there is a tie at the deadline, all players tied will be lynched.

From the 2nd post.

[mcmcsalot]

anyone think galz's vote on me is scummy, why does he all the sudden agree with insom

[Insomniac]

insom I'm sorry I presented a case I still have heard nothing to dissuade the fact that joth is scum. You came out of nowhere with a jimm lynch and he was town, yes I agreed I deeply regret this though it would have happened without me. I don't trust your reads, I think there simply wrong and I think that is a complete possibility.

And why not discuss it instead of just blatantly fly in my face. it's always possible my reads are wrong, guess what its possible yours are too. And go back and look at what Robz posted about Jo because it's true.

[Insomniac]

HOLD UP ASH thats busted.

[Insomniac]

Ash that has the same problem as vote all did. if everyone except me is tied at deadline and Im not on any of those wagons, town instant wins.

[ashersky]

Ash that has the same problem as vote all did. if everyone except me is tied at deadline and Im not on any of those wagons, town instant wins.

That's true.  Mods have a solution in the works, if needed, for that particular problem.

[mcmcsalot]

What do you mean fly it in my face, i dont think robz weak defense of joth is enough to disuade me. And im willing to discuss anything. I was gone for a little bit, my father came to see me at school. As well as I'm going to dinner in 20 min so I would like resolution by then unless we have time after I get back in like 20 min before deadline.

[Insomniac]

Galz how do you feel about your access, at deadline?

[ashersky]

Ash that has the same problem as vote all did. if everyone except me is tied at deadline and Im not on any of those wagons, town instant wins.

To be clear: mods took the "vote all" problem into account for day-end tiebreakers after it was caught early in the game.  Tie breakers haven't been needed, and we don't expect it this game.

[Insomniac]

Ash that has the same problem as vote all did. if everyone except me is tied at deadline and Im not on any of those wagons, town instant wins.

To be clear: mods took the "vote all" problem into account for day-end tiebreakers after it was caught early in the game.  Tie breakers haven't been needed, and we don't expect it this game.

You might if I get my way.

[Insomniac]

Ash that has the same problem as vote all did. if everyone except me is tied at deadline and Im not on any of those wagons, town instant wins.

To be clear: mods took the "vote all" problem into account for day-end tiebreakers after it was caught early in the game.  Tie breakers haven't been needed, and we don't expect it this game.

You might if I get my way.

[Galzria]

Galz how do you feel about your access, at deadline?

I'm here until deadline.

[Insomniac]

What do you mean fly it in my face, i dont think robz weak defense of joth is enough to disuade me. And im willing to discuss anything. I was gone for a little bit, my father came to see me at school. As well as I'm going to dinner in 20 min so I would like resolution by then unless we have time after I get back in like 20 min before deadline.

"Fly in the face" - your directly ignoring me. And I'm sorry you don't like meta arguments but they're good. You didn't seem to be willing to discuss anything you just told people to vote for joth. I haven't seen a particularily convincing case that he is scummy. The Eevee thing doesn't count because I 100% agree with him there.

[Robz888]

I'm here too. What's the problem? Not enough people on board to lynch Mcmc?

[Insomniac]

Galz how do you feel about your access, at deadline?

I'm here until deadline.

How do you feel about being the only person allowed to vote, and voting for everyone?

If scum tries to manipulate the tie breakers, you can unvote: all and we lynch the manipulator.

[mcmcsalot]

you can no longer vote all... Galz would lynch the first person he votes for top to bottom or left to right in the post

[jotheonah]

sorry what time is deadline?

[Galzria]

Galz how do you feel about your access, at deadline?

I'm here until deadline.

How do you feel about being the only person allowed to vote, and voting for everyone?

If scum tries to manipulate the tie breakers, you can unvote: all and we lynch the manipulator.

Do we lose on a town lynch? What's to so scum from dropping a vote at say, 1 second to the hour? Or if they drop votes on every town player with 10 seconds left or whatever.

I won't be able to sort out missed names to match at 1 in time.

[Insomniac]

you can no longer vote all... Galz would lynch the first person he votes for top to bottom or left to right in the post

he doesn't do it by "vote: all" he does it by voting for each individual because if people are tied at deadline they are all lynched.

[Robz888]

Galz how do you feel about your access, at deadline?

I'm here until deadline.

How do you feel about being the only person allowed to vote, and voting for everyone?

If scum tries to manipulate the tie breakers, you can unvote: all and we lynch the manipulator.

You mean vote everyone but you, one at a time, and then sit to deadline? And then they all go down? COuld scum just screw that up one second before deadline? I'm open to this... but I'm not totally positive it's sound.

[Galzria]

you can no longer vote all... Galz would lynch the first person he votes for top to bottom or left to right in the post

Not if I'm the only person voting. I can put one vote on everybody but Ins, placing them all at 1. When deadline hits, everybody is lynched.

[ashersky]

sorry what time is deadline?

4:30 p.m. forum time.

[mcmcsalot]

all it would take is the mafia voting one person or even insom and we all die

[mcmcsalot]

like they could vote for me at the last second and then just i die, I would have two votes one from you one from mafia.

or they vote insom and we all die

[Insomniac]

what if we do it with 3 people say Robz/Galz/Jo then the 4 of us can be around to smack any scum trying to manipulate.

One of us could game the who's posting page

[Robz888]

sorry what time is deadline?

4:30 p.m. forum time.

What? It's 5 minutes before 6:00 PM for me...

[Robz888]

what if we do it with 3 people say Robz/Galz/Jo then the 4 of us can be around to smack any scum trying to manipulate.

One of us could game the who's posting page

I mean doesn't Ash have to do something or else this is just broken? If we can walk to deadline tie-killing everyone but Ins.

[Insomniac]

the problem i guess with the 3 man setup is if one of the three i picked is scum they could unvote. which is why I have to watch the whos posting page and if you go offline or appear to be posting in thread you admit guilt.

[Insomniac]

what if we do it with 3 people say Robz/Galz/Jo then the 4 of us can be around to smack any scum trying to manipulate.

One of us could game the who's posting page

I mean doesn't Ash have to do something or else this is just broken? If we can walk to deadline tie-killing everyone but Ins.

Yes this is why I want to know what his work around is.

[ashersky]

sorry what time is deadline?

4:30 p.m. forum time.

What? It's 5 minutes before 6:00 PM for me...

Oh, right.  8:30 p.m.  I added 4 hours to the old time.

[mcmcsalot]

this is silly to be discussing, mods would fix it if there was an issue we have limited time, or at least i do, I have made what I feel is a good case on joth, cuzz his origional lurk is stiiiil scummy, Galz have more of a feeling his play was a scum plan, robz for defending joth i feel poorly, even if thats his meta he could fake it, I find him scummy for deflecting the original post I made about lurker cuzz.

[Robz888]

I mean I'm just assuming ashersky is going to do something to prevent us gaming this.

[Robz888]

Okay, well I'm definitely not going to be around then.

[Insomniac]

this is silly to be discussing, mods would fix it if there was an issue we have limited time, or at least i do, I have made what I feel is a good case on joth, cuzz his origional lurk is stiiiil scummy, Galz have more of a feeling his play was a scum plan, robz for defending joth i feel poorly, even if thats his meta he could fake it, I find him scummy for deflecting the original post I made about lurker cuzz.

Your reads are awful, because Galz planning that would be unforgivable. and I have yet to see ANY case on joth let alone a good one.

[Robz888]

I mean, I could if absolutely necessary, I guess.

[mcmcsalot]

vote: galzria

seeing as i may be gone at dealine these are the people i would support lynching

[Insomniac]

@Ash I ask once more what is the mods work around for a tie on all non me players at deadline.

[mcmcsalot]

Maybe we need to go deeper. It's a game full of veterans with short deadlines. Scum are probably not lurking - too risky. So what are they doing?

I think scum will sound rehearsed in this set up. In such a grandiose setup, it seems like it would be tempting to overplan to try to ensure victory.

Or your defending your lurking scum buddies

this is after i asked for a post count

[Robz888]

I don't see what our problem is. We can't do the cheap thing, but we can still lynch mcmc by having the majority of votes on him at deadline.

[Insomniac]

Maybe we need to go deeper. It's a game full of veterans with short deadlines. Scum are probably not lurking - too risky. So what are they doing?

I think scum will sound rehearsed in this set up. In such a grandiose setup, it seems like it would be tempting to overplan to try to ensure victory.

Or your defending your lurking scum buddies

I really don't think thats scummy.

this is after i asked for a post count

[Insomniac]

Maybe we need to go deeper. It's a game full of veterans with short deadlines. Scum are probably not lurking - too risky. So what are they doing?

I think scum will sound rehearsed in this set up. In such a grandiose setup, it seems like it would be tempting to overplan to try to ensure victory.

Or your defending your lurking scum buddies

this is after i asked for a post count

I really don't think thats scummy.

FTFM

[mcmcsalot]

You yourself said if we lynched the lowest posters in every blits game town would win. Why does joth disagree that we shouldn't even look at it. I though he was defending cuzz buddie

[mcmcsalot]

If you don't trust me on the joth lynch thats fine have galz lynch cuzz or cuzz lynch galz

[Insomniac]

You yourself said if we lynched the lowest posters in every blits game town would win. Why does joth disagree that we shouldn't even look at it. I though he was defending cuzz buddie

I said that later, and he isn't saying we shouldn't look at it he just stated his belief that scum wouldn't be lurking.

[mcmcsalot]

i find it wierd robz can't tell I'm town, this is why I find him scummy now. What have I done that supports scum robz

[Galzria]

Insomniac, what if everybody was at L-1? In order for scum to vote for anybody they would would cause an instant hammer - and we would lynch them straight off tomorrow.

How many (if any) mislynches can we afford?

Although I guess that means you need 4 people you can trust since an unvote breaks it. Hmm...

[Insomniac]

Insomniac, what if everybody was at L-1? In order for scum to vote for anybody they would would cause an instant hammer - and we would lynch them straight off tomorrow.

How many (if any) mislynches can we afford?

Although I guess that means you need 4 people you can trust since an unvote breaks it. Hmm...

true but you could have a thing where say all 4 people must be online at deadline with their status visible. And if in the last 5 minutes any of them have the status "Posing in ZMX" you know they are scum and you lynch them

[Robz888]

i find it wierd robz can't tell I'm town, this is why I find him scummy now. What have I done that supports scum robz

The case you pushed on me that it was a scumtell that I hadn't come up with the best plan. You pushing cases against people I think are certainly town, like Galz and Joth. And finally, you trying to openly scheme instead of convincing the IC you're right.

[mcmcsalot]

Insomniac, what if everybody was at L-1? In order for scum to vote for anybody they would would cause an instant hammer - and we would lynch them straight off tomorrow.

How many (if any) mislynches can we afford?

Although I guess that means you need 4 people you can trust since an unvote breaks it. Hmm...

true but you could have a thing where say all 4 people must be online at deadline with their status visible. And if in the last 5 minutes any of them have the status "Posing in ZMX" you know they are scum and you lynch them

i didnt know that you could do this, will this work the only way i see town winning is via loophole

[mcmcsalot]

i find it wierd robz can't tell I'm town, this is why I find him scummy now. What have I done that supports scum robz

The case you pushed on me that it was a scumtell that I hadn't come up with the best plan. You pushing cases against people I think are certainly town, like Galz and Joth. And finally, you trying to openly scheme instead of convincing the IC you're right.

what scheme? and I didnt ever push that case on you I WAS READING YOUR REACTION as ive said 3 times now

[Insomniac]

Insomniac, what if everybody was at L-1? In order for scum to vote for anybody they would would cause an instant hammer - and we would lynch them straight off tomorrow.

How many (if any) mislynches can we afford?

Although I guess that means you need 4 people you can trust since an unvote breaks it. Hmm...

true but you could have a thing where say all 4 people must be online at deadline with their status visible. And if in the last 5 minutes any of them have the status "Posing in ZMX" you know they are scum and you lynch them

i didnt know that you could do this, will this work the only way i see town winning is via loophole

If ash doesn't have a solution it does indeed work.

[mcmcsalot]

okay, im calm im sad i really need to go eat soon and what is best insom. I think you need me to unvote: all for whatever plan youve got to work

[Robz888]

Guys, ashersky is clearing not going to let us win by using exploitative technicalities. Nor should he. I don't understand the enthusiasm to try to break the setup anymore. It was fun for awhile but now it's just wasting time.

[Insomniac]

okay, im calm im sad i really need to go eat soon and what is best insom. I think you need me to unvote: all for whatever plan youve got to work

Why are you sad?

And I'm not sure because surely ash will come up with a solution to fix it.

[mcmcsalot]

i cannot promis i can be on at deadline, can i be offline and give the same im gone presence. do you need me to vote for everyone but you

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.19:

Robz888 (0) -
Eevee (1) - jotheonah
Galzria (0) -
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (1) - TheMunch
TheMunch (1) - jotheonah
Cuzz (0) -
mcmcsalot (3) - Insomniac, Robz888, Galzria

With 9 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

[Insomniac]

i cannot promis i can be on at deadline, can i be offline and give the same im gone presence. do you need me to vote for everyone but you

Nope don't need that.

[mcmcsalot]

oh just sad because I clearly messed up somewhere, I had a whooole lot of town cred and was super excited as I am in fact town I guess being on one mafia game from 730 am till 6 pm wears you out. During this time I supported a mislynch and lost all my town cred

[mcmcsalot]

last shred of hope, robz constantly saying this wont work because he doesn't want it too?

[Robz888]

oh just sad because I clearly messed up somewhere, I had a whooole lot of town cred and was super excited as I am in fact town I guess being on one mafia game from 730 am till 6 pm wears you out. During this time I supported a mislynch and lost all my town cred

Usually people are really upset that they lost their towncred because they are scum.

[Insomniac]

oh just sad because I clearly messed up somewhere, I had a whooole lot of town cred and was super excited as I am in fact town I guess being on one mafia game from 730 am till 6 pm wears you out. During this time I supported a mislynch and lost all my town cred

The mislynch cost you minor town cred because of how you got on the wagon, it was everything after that made me think you are scum.

[Insomniac]

last shred of hope, robz constantly saying this wont work because he doesn't want it too?

Shrug its possible but even as the IC I hope it doesn't work.

[mcmcsalot]

If i was scum I wouldn't be as bummed. If I was scum you caught me good job, I'm not I'm town I messed up big time somewhere and its disapointing

[Robz888]

last shred of hope, robz constantly saying this wont work because he doesn't want it too?

I don't want it to work, no. I don't think it should work. It wouldn't really be a legitimate result, and ash would and should certainly void it.

[ashersky]

Guys, ashersky is clearing not going to let us win by using exploitative technicalities. Nor should he. I don't understand the enthusiasm to try to break the setup anymore. It was fun for awhile but now it's just wasting time.

Mods are following closely.  Here's the thing, Robz is correct that we won't let the game end by breaking the set-up.  We do find it more interesting for everyone to leave the set-up as is, without more modifications.  You can force us to do it, though.  The "fix" isn't as interesting as just playing the game.

Besides, we're pretty sure you can't pull it off.

[mcmcsalot]

Guys, ashersky is clearing not going to let us win by using exploitative technicalities. Nor should he. I don't understand the enthusiasm to try to break the setup anymore. It was fun for awhile but now it's just wasting time.

Mods are following closely.  Here's the thing, Robz is correct that we won't let the game end by breaking the set-up.  We do find it more interesting for everyone to leave the set-up as is, without more modifications.  You can force us to do it, though.  The "fix" isn't as interesting as just playing the game.

Besides, we're pretty sure you can't pull it off.

I sorta agree mafia will take over and we will lose

[Insomniac]

Guys, ashersky is clearing not going to let us win by using exploitative technicalities. Nor should he. I don't understand the enthusiasm to try to break the setup anymore. It was fun for awhile but now it's just wasting time.

Mods are following closely.  Here's the thing, Robz is correct that we won't let the game end by breaking the set-up.  We do find it more interesting for everyone to leave the set-up as is, without more modifications.  You can force us to do it, though.  The "fix" isn't as interesting as just playing the game.

Besides, we're pretty sure you can't pull it off.

...That makes me want to do it more.

[mcmcsalot]

though that makes robz look townie, yaaay. I guess i'm back to joth cuzz or galz cuzz.

[Robz888]

Guys, ashersky is clearing not going to let us win by using exploitative technicalities. Nor should he. I don't understand the enthusiasm to try to break the setup anymore. It was fun for awhile but now it's just wasting time.

Mods are following closely.  Here's the thing, Robz is correct that we won't let the game end by breaking the set-up.  We do find it more interesting for everyone to leave the set-up as is, without more modifications.  You can force us to do it, though.  The "fix" isn't as interesting as just playing the game.

Besides, we're pretty sure you can't pull it off.

I sorta agree mafia will take over and we will lose

Right now are probably loving the fact that we are sitting around trying to needle the system instead of scumhunting. We've had 1 mislynch so far, I don't know why we're acting like we need to cheat to win.

[Robz888]

right now *scum* are

[Insomniac]

Guys, ashersky is clearing not going to let us win by using exploitative technicalities. Nor should he. I don't understand the enthusiasm to try to break the setup anymore. It was fun for awhile but now it's just wasting time.

Mods are following closely.  Here's the thing, Robz is correct that we won't let the game end by breaking the set-up.  We do find it more interesting for everyone to leave the set-up as is, without more modifications.  You can force us to do it, though.  The "fix" isn't as interesting as just playing the game.

Besides, we're pretty sure you can't pull it off.

...That makes me want to do it more.

This is like hey hey insom, see this red button, it'll make you win thats kinda boring right? Bet you 500$ you can't press it

[mcmcsalot]

Guys, ashersky is clearing not going to let us win by using exploitative technicalities. Nor should he. I don't understand the enthusiasm to try to break the setup anymore. It was fun for awhile but now it's just wasting time.

Mods are following closely.  Here's the thing, Robz is correct that we won't let the game end by breaking the set-up.  We do find it more interesting for everyone to leave the set-up as is, without more modifications.  You can force us to do it, though.  The "fix" isn't as interesting as just playing the game.

Besides, we're pretty sure you can't pull it off.

I sorta agree mafia will take over and we will lose

Right now are probably loving the fact that we are sitting around trying to needle the system instead of scumhunting. We've had 1 mislynch so far, I don't know why we're acting like we need to cheat to win.

Then why did you think I was scum for disagreeing with ic and pushing my own case on people

[Eevee]

I don't want to try any gambit like that. Really bad access probably until deadline. I'll try to get here to vote at minimum

[mcmcsalot]

eevee I miss you, you trusted me

[Insomniac]

Eevee how do you feel about my MCMC case and MCMCs Jo case?

[mcmcsalot]

okay I need to know insom, vote for who I think is mafia or vote noone I really have to go and I doubt Ill be back for deadline

[mcmcsalot]

1(XXX)XXX-XXXX heres my phone number, text me when I need to check/vote/do something, Ill have my phone and I will check it at dinner I want to win this for town still.

[mcmcsalot]

btw I posted it so eevee or insome can text me, I don't trust my brother, hes a huge scumread for me

[Robz888]

It is illegal for any player in this game to send you a text message about the game. Read the rules!

[Robz888]

2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it.  Mafia members may communicate at night and during the confirmation stage.

[ashersky]

1(XXX)XXX-XXXX heres my phone number, text me when I need to check/vote/do something, Ill have my phone and I will check it at dinner I want to win this for town still.

Sorry, but this probably breaks the "no contact outside of the game" rule.

[mcmcsalot]

oh my mistake super sorry guys forgot. Also I bought timeI don't have to eat yet, 15 maybe 20 mins I got

[mcmcsalot]

1(XXX)XXX-XXXX heres my phone number, text me when I need to check/vote/do something, Ill have my phone and I will check it at dinner I want to win this for town still.

Sorry, but this probably breaks the "no contact outside of the game" rule.

tooootaly understand

[Robz888]

Just go eat bro, it's fine.

[Eevee]

Eevee how do you feel about my MCMC case and MCMCs Jo case?

Hmm. well. Yeah, mcmc is all over the place, I gueeeess he is scummier. don't like his joth case.

[mcmcsalot]

Vote: Robz888
Vote: Jotheonah
Vote: Cuzz
Vote: Galzria

I still think this is the pool we need to look at, winning via cheating game breaking is lane

[mcmcsalot]

Just go eat bro, it's fine.

Its not fine I had such strong reads, unless eevee/munch is scum i'm pretty sure I founf the scum team suuuuper early and I want to see this through to deadline

[Robz888]

Okay, I gotta go. I will check back in at least once before deadline, but maybe not for awhile. If I need to move my vote then, I will.

FWIW, Scum--Mcmc--Cuzz--Munch--Eevee--Galz--Joth--Not scum.

[Eevee]

hahaha wow.

mc has got to be town and I admire the dedication. scum is getting screwed by people semi-breaking the rules and semi-clearing themselves

[mcmcsalot]

Eevee how do you feel about my MCMC case and MCMCs Jo case?

Hmm. well. Yeah, mcmc is all over the place, I gueeeess he is scummier. don't like his joth case.

what case do yo like pick one of my 4 or make your own, something I would like to add NO ONE has done

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.20:

Robz888 (1) - mcmcsalot
Eevee (1) - jotheonah
Galzria (1) - mcmcsalot
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (2) - TheMunch, mcmcsalot
TheMunch (1) - jotheonah
Cuzz (1) - mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (3) - Insomniac, Robz888, Galzria

With 9 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

[Eevee]

I think Robz is scummy for still having mcmc as his top scum read. anyone interested in a Robz lynch?

[Eevee]

vote: robz

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.21:

Robz888 (2) - mcmcsalot, Eevee
Eevee (1) - jotheonah
Galzria (1) - mcmcsalot
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (2) - TheMunch, mcmcsalot
TheMunch (1) - jotheonah
Cuzz (1) - mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (3) - Insomniac, Robz888, Galzria

With 9 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

That's in 2 hours.

[mcmcsalot]

also want to point out cuzz resumed lurking the second we cleared him

[Insomniac]

also want to point out cuzz resumed lurking the second we cleared him

He's not clear

[Insomniac]

I think Robz is scummy for still having mcmc as his top scum read. anyone interested in a Robz lynch?

I'm not.

[Insomniac]

I think Robz is scummy for still having mcmc as his top scum read. anyone interested in a Robz lynch?

I'm not.

(Cuz I still think MCMC is scummy)

[TheMunch]

I dont want to live in the world where mcmc is scum.

[mcmcsalot]

YES i have been wondering where my supporters were(btw best played game ever if eevee munch is the scum team)

[mcmcsalot]

insom cuzz is clear he said like 5 things and supported the jimm lynch and we were all like yea he seems townie, and hes been gone since.

[jotheonah]

Just go eat bro, it's fine.

Its not fine I had such strong reads, unless eevee/munch is scum i'm pretty sure I founf the scum team suuuuper early and I want to see this through to deadline

The scum team is... All 4 of us? Cuzz-Galzria? Me-Robz?

Ridiculous. Galzria was willing to hammer Cuzz, and Robz has defended me WAAAY too obviously.

It seems to me more like you're desperate for any lynch but yours.

[TheMunch]

I think scum is among joth/galz/cuzz/(and I really dont want)mcmc

[Galzria]

Just go eat bro, it's fine.

Its not fine I had such strong reads, unless eevee/munch is scum i'm pretty sure I founf the scum team suuuuper early and I want to see this through to deadline

The scum team is... All 4 of us? Cuzz-Galzria? Me-Robz?

Ridiculous. Galzria was willing to hammer Cuzz, and Robz has defended me WAAAY too obviously.

It seems to me more like you're desperate for any lynch but yours.

To be fair... "Anybody but me" is a town and scum trait.

[mcmcsalot]

I'm not desperate for any lynch but mine im desperate for a lynch on one of my 4 scum reads, ive had these scum reads for forever I stupidly accepted lynching not one of these four and he flipped town.

[Insomniac]

I dont want to live in the world where mcmc is scum.

I think scum is among joth/galz/cuzz/(and I really dont want)mcmc

What is this? I don't even

[mcmcsalot]

you and cuzz are still the origional scum team I believed, I can see the galz and cuzz scum team making sense. Robz fits nowhere but they way he is playing reads soooo scummy to me, I can't explain but I feel I can read robz well, I would assume robz could read me well, except he didnt in ZMIX, so him finding me scummy makes me find him scummy. I feel he is lying/making his scum read on me up that is what I find scummy in him.

[mcmcsalot]

you and cuzz are still the origional scum team I believed, I can see the galz and cuzz scum team making sense. Robz fits nowhere but they way he is playing reads soooo scummy to me, I can't explain but I feel I can read robz well, I would assume robz could read me well, except he didnt in ZMIX, so him finding me scummy makes me find him scummy. I feel he is lying/making his scum read on me up that is what I find scummy in him.

you being joth

[Eevee]

Ins, Galzria and mcmc are town.

[mcmcsalot]

Post count
I hope this helps, sorry it includes the beginning stuff.

Robzz - 66
eevee - 41
galzia - 35
joth - 51
the munch - 33
cuzz - 21
mcmcsalot - 102

[mcmcsalot]

ive got my votes out, I suggest galz hammer cuzz going to dinner, in the end its a game and I hope we all had fun.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.22:

Robz888 (2) - mcmcsalot, Eevee
Eevee (1) - jotheonah
Galzria (1) - mcmcsalot
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (2) - TheMunch, mcmcsalot
TheMunch (1) - jotheonah
Cuzz (1) - mcmcsalot
mcmcsalot (3) - Insomniac, Robz888, Galzria

With 9 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

That's in 90 minutes.

[Insomniac]

I'm also ok with a cuzz lynch.

[TheMunch]

I dont want to live in the world where mcmc is scum.

I think scum is among joth/galz/cuzz/(and I really dont want)mcmc

What is this? I don't even

It means I've been agreeing with mcmc a lot, but he has been saying my thoughts in a very different way than me.  I am starting to think he might be scum but I really dont like how much I have been agreeing with mcmc if he is actually scum...

[mcmcsalot]

I leave and everyone stops talking?

[jotheonah]

vote: Cuzz

Guys, this pitiful puppying is town mcmc. He's wrong, but I think he's town.

Also he might not be wrong about cuzz.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.23:

Robz888 (2) - mcmcsalot, Eevee
Eevee (1) - jotheonah
Galzria (1) - mcmcsalot
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (2) - TheMunch, mcmcsalot
TheMunch (1) - jotheonah
Cuzz (2) - mcmcsalot, jotheonah
mcmcsalot (3) - Insomniac, Robz888, Galzria

With 9 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

That's in 90 minutes.

[mcmcsalot]

vote: Cuzz

Guys, this pitiful puppying is town mcmc. He's wrong, but I think he's town.

Also he might not be wrong about cuzz.

Sorry you feel I'm puppying and being pitiful I was trying to not be frustrated and remember it was a game and this came out sappy. And what am I wrong about? Puppying?

[Robz888]

Back for a few minutes.

[Robz888]

you and cuzz are still the origional scum team I believed, I can see the galz and cuzz scum team making sense. Robz fits nowhere but they way he is playing reads soooo scummy to me, I can't explain but I feel I can read robz well, I would assume robz could read me well, except he didnt in ZMIX, so him finding me scummy makes me find him scummy. I feel he is lying/making his scum read on me up that is what I find scummy in him.

I read you wrong when I was town. Now you say reading you wrong makes me scum.?

[Robz888]

Munch's "world where mcmc is town" line is weird.

[Robz888]

I don't know what to make of it though.

[Eevee]

I think Robz is scum.

[ashersky]

One hour to go.

[Insomniac]

I think Robz is scum.

You said that, got anything else? Maybe a case? Last time I sheeped you you were scum, and that was after I complimented your reads 

[TheMunch]

Munch's "world where mcmc is town" line is weird.

I already explained this.  It means I've agreed with mcmc too much to be comfortable if he is scum.

[Insomniac]

Vote: Cuzz

He's been reading the thread here and there since he dissapeared but hasn't posted anything. So I feel pretty good dropping a vote here too.

[Robz888]

I think Robz is scum.

I don't think you're going to convince me.

[Insomniac]

Also for perspective on MCMCs post count;

Insom W/ Pregame: 136

[Eevee]

I think Robz is scum.

You said that, got anything else? Maybe a case? Last time I sheeped you you were scum, and that was after I complimented your reads 

Hehe.

Well, he seems to be focusing on unimportant details / trying to paint people (namely mcmc) in bad light. I'm stumped other people aren't getting as strong of a town read from mcmc's little outburst as they got from Galzrias.

cant reread to build a case before the deadline, no.

[Robz888]

Vote: Cuzz

He's been reading the thread here and there since he dissapeared but hasn't posted anything. So I feel pretty good dropping a vote here too.

Do you want me to also vote for Cuzz? do you prefer him lynched? I'm basically equal between him and mcmc.

[mcmcsalot]

back from dinner insom ask robz to hammer cuzz, see what happens

[Eevee]

vote: cuzz is fine for me as well

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.24:

Robz888 (2) - mcmcsalot, Eevee
Eevee (1) - jotheonah
Galzria (1) - mcmcsalot
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (2) - TheMunch, mcmcsalot
TheMunch (1) - jotheonah
Cuzz (4) - mcmcsalot, jotheonah, Insomniac, Eevee {L-1}
mcmcsalot (3) - Insomniac, Robz888, Galzria

With 9 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

[Robz888]

I think Robz is scum.

You said that, got anything else? Maybe a case? Last time I sheeped you you were scum, and that was after I complimented your reads 

Hehe.

Well, he seems to be focusing on unimportant details / trying to paint people (namely mcmc) in bad light. I'm stumped other people aren't getting as strong of a town read from mcmc's little outburst as they got from Galzrias.

cant reread to build a case before the deadline, no.

Oh, the dumbest thing. What is at all townie about mcmc's outburst? They aren't even remotely like galz's outbursts.

[Robz888]

back from dinner insom ask robz to hammer cuzz, see what happens

Happy to if you wants, ins.

[Insomniac]

I think Robz is scum.

You said that, got anything else? Maybe a case? Last time I sheeped you you were scum, and that was after I complimented your reads 

Hehe.

Well, he seems to be focusing on unimportant details / trying to paint people (namely mcmc) in bad light. I'm stumped other people aren't getting as strong of a town read from mcmc's little outburst as they got from Galzrias.

cant reread to build a case before the deadline, no.

Well like MCMC was a high townread for me. but that changed because
1) He joined the jimm wagon at a scummy place and without expressing prior his desire to do so.
2) He tried to flat out get Jo lynched without discussion and essentially said we don't need Insomniac his reads are awful, which I can't see town MCMC doing but I can see scum MCMC doing.
3) I have a town read on Robz because Robz isn't lurking AND Robz has a scum read on MCMC
4) I have a town read on Galz and Galz has a scum read on MCMC

3 and 4 are nowhere near as important as 1 and 2

[Galzria]

Blah. This setup is so weird. With the normal blitz setup I feel like balancing my town reads against my scum reads can solve the setup. Not so here.

We started with... What? 5 VT, 1 IC, 3 S? And now we have 4/1/3?

So it's really 4 town, 3 scum.

Knowing I'm town means 50% of:

Eevee/Robz/Cuzz/Munch/Joth/Mcmc

Are scum. Hummm...

Insomniac, if you had to pick one - just one of the above to be TOWN, who would it be?

My choice would be Robz.

[Cuzz]

Should I claim?

[Cuzz]

just kidding

[Insomniac]

back from dinner insom ask robz to hammer cuzz, see what happens

Happy to if you wants, ins.

No.

[Cuzz]

Blah. This setup is so weird. With the normal blitz setup I feel like balancing my town reads against my scum reads can solve the setup. Not so here.

We started with... What? 5 VT, 1 IC, 3 S? And now we have 4/1/3?

So it's really 4 town, 3 scum.

Knowing I'm town means 50% of:

Eevee/Robz/Cuzz/Munch/Joth/Mcmc

Are scum. Hummm...

Insomniac, if you had to pick one - just one of the above to be TOWN, who would it be?

My choice would be Robz.

Galz you scared me there for a second. There's only 2 scum.

[Insomniac]

Blah. This setup is so weird. With the normal blitz setup I feel like balancing my town reads against my scum reads can solve the setup. Not so here.

We started with... What? 5 VT, 1 IC, 3 S? And now we have 4/1/3?

So it's really 4 town, 3 scum.

Knowing I'm town means 50% of:

Eevee/Robz/Cuzz/Munch/Joth/Mcmc

Are scum. Hummm...

Insomniac, if you had to pick one - just one of the above to be TOWN, who would it be?

My choice would be Robz.

there is only 2 scum.

[Insomniac]

Should I claim?

Will you self hammer?

[Galzria]

Blah. This setup is so weird. With the normal blitz setup I feel like balancing my town reads against my scum reads can solve the setup. Not so here.

We started with... What? 5 VT, 1 IC, 3 S? And now we have 4/1/3?

So it's really 4 town, 3 scum.

Knowing I'm town means 50% of:

Eevee/Robz/Cuzz/Munch/Joth/Mcmc

Are scum. Hummm...

Insomniac, if you had to pick one - just one of the above to be TOWN, who would it be?

My choice would be Robz.

Sorry, we started 6-1-2, not 5-1-3. So we stand 5-1-2 at the moment and 4 of

Eevee/Robz/Cuzz/Munch/Joth/Mcmc

are town. Huh. Question stands Ins. Which 1 is town?

[Insomniac]

Blah. This setup is so weird. With the normal blitz setup I feel like balancing my town reads against my scum reads can solve the setup. Not so here.

We started with... What? 5 VT, 1 IC, 3 S? And now we have 4/1/3?

So it's really 4 town, 3 scum.

Knowing I'm town means 50% of:

Eevee/Robz/Cuzz/Munch/Joth/Mcmc

Are scum. Hummm...

Insomniac, if you had to pick one - just one of the above to be TOWN, who would it be?

My choice would be Robz.

Sorry, we started 6-1-2, not 5-1-3. So we stand 5-1-2 at the moment and 4 of

Eevee/Robz/Cuzz/Munch/Joth/Mcmc

are town. Huh. Question stands Ins. Which 1 is town?

Its a toss up for me between Robz and Joth. But I'd give it to Robz I suppose.

[Eevee]

god everyone is scummy here!

[Cuzz]

Should I claim?

Will you self hammer?

Why would I want to do that?

[Cuzz]

god everyone is scummy here!

agreed

[Insomniac]

god everyone is scummy here!

What how?

[Insomniac]

Should I claim?

Will you self hammer?

Why would I want to do that?

If your town, you want to because we agreed that sometimes we should force a self hammer to remove the vengekill.

[mcmcsalot]

insom if in that situation, you believe robz is town, I strongly believe eevee and munch are town which I believe you and robz agreed with, doesnt this make cuzz joth the scum team ive been saying for forever

[mcmcsalot]

Should I claim?

Will you self hammer?

Why would I want to do that?

If your town, you want to because we agreed that sometimes we should force a self hammer to remove the vengekill.

If hes town theres no vengekill...

[Galzria]

Blah. This setup is so weird. With the normal blitz setup I feel like balancing my town reads against my scum reads can solve the setup. Not so here.

We started with... What? 5 VT, 1 IC, 3 S? And now we have 4/1/3?

So it's really 4 town, 3 scum.

Knowing I'm town means 50% of:

Eevee/Robz/Cuzz/Munch/Joth/Mcmc

Are scum. Hummm...

Insomniac, if you had to pick one - just one of the above to be TOWN, who would it be?

My choice would be Robz.

Sorry, we started 6-1-2, not 5-1-3. So we stand 5-1-2 at the moment and 4 of

Eevee/Robz/Cuzz/Munch/Joth/Mcmc

are town. Huh. Question stands Ins. Which 1 is town?

Its a toss up for me between Robz and Joth. But I'd give it to Robz I suppose.

I said Robz as well. Let's remove him and Joth from the conversation right now.

Eevee/Cuzz/Munch/Mcmc

2 town (at least), and unless Robz/Joth are scum (I highly doubt), at least 1 scum, but likely 2.

[Insomniac]

insom if in that situation, you believe robz is town, I strongly believe eevee and munch are town which I believe you and robz agreed with, doesnt this make cuzz joth the scum team ive been saying for forever

? I never said I trusted you or Eevee or Munch

[Robz888]

Will be back in 20 minutes, and then hopefully around until deadline.

[Cuzz]

Should I claim?

Will you self hammer?

Why would I want to do that?

If your town, you want to because we agreed that sometimes we should force a self hammer to remove the vengekill.

I am town, so there won't be a vengekill. But I can do it to put your mind at ease if you really want. Not like we're lynching anyone else at this point.

[mcmcsalot]

okay so i guess I have no reason to trust eevee or munch, only that they have defended me aand that a dumb idea. 

[Insomniac]

@ Galz - Eevee/Cuzz/Munch/Mcmc

These are the 4 I'm having the most trouble with.

Joth has a decent point about MCMC but I also like my case on MCMC.
Cuzz - only stops lurking when under pressure
Munch - Low post count, lots of theory low analysis, recent mcmc thing was wierd.
Eevee - Eh I think he's probably the least scummy here but was also scummy with the OMG I FEEL SO SCUMMY thing.

[Galzria]

mcmc, would you hammer Cuzz?

[Galzria]

Munch, if mcmc hammered Cuzz, and Cuzz flipped town, would you hammer mcmc the following "day"?

Eevee, same question.

[mcmcsalot]

nope, I think cuzz is scum, I think he will vengekill me and I think thats bad for town.

[Cuzz]

Well, I do prefer not lynching confirmed town so Vote: mcmcsalot.

At least now we have two viable wagons.

[Galzria]

Insomniac, what do you think of the idea that mcmc and Cuzz are buddies, and mcmc is trying to buy town cred with a correct "read" on his partner? How does his refusal to be the hammer make you feel about that?

Actually, that's a question for everybody.

[Insomniac]

Insomniac, what do you think of the idea that mcmc and Cuzz are buddies, and mcmc is trying to buy town cred with a correct "read" on his partner? How does his refusal to be the hammer make you feel about that?

Actually, that's a question for everybody.

Makes me uneasy. As does Cuzz's vote for MCMC

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.25:

Robz888 (2) - mcmcsalot, Eevee
Eevee (1) - jotheonah
Galzria (1) - mcmcsalot
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (2) - TheMunch, mcmcsalot
TheMunch (1) - jotheonah
Cuzz (4) - mcmcsalot, jotheonah, Insomniac, Eevee {L-1}
mcmcsalot (4) - Insomniac, Robz888, Galzria, Cuzz {L-1}

With 9 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

[TheMunch]

Munch, if mcmc hammered Cuzz, and Cuzz flipped town, would you hammer mcmc the following "day"?

Eevee, same question.

I dont know if cuzz being town means mcmc is scum I would hammer per the "would you hammer" question but he has been my town read all game.  I'm really trying to weigh the possibility of him being scum though.

[Insomniac]

although interestingly enough they both get lynched if we deadline out.

[Eevee]

Munch, if mcmc hammered Cuzz, and Cuzz flipped town, would you hammer mcmc the following "day"?

Eevee, same question.

no, I wouldn't  want to vote for my 2nd strongest town read.


Ins you suspecting me for that is annoying. why would I say that as scum? whats the benefit? no benefit, I'm just town disappointed in my play that far. Munch is probably scum too lol.

[Insomniac]

Munch, if mcmc hammered Cuzz, and Cuzz flipped town, would you hammer mcmc the following "day"?

Eevee, same question.

no, I wouldn't  want to vote for my 2nd strongest town read.


Ins you suspecting me for that is annoying. why would I say that as scum? whats the benefit? no benefit, I'm just town disappointed in my play that far. Munch is probably scum too lol.

...I did say you were the weakest scum read of the big 4. But I had a slight town on you until you were all, man I feel soo scummy.

[Galzria]

Cuzz, will you hammer mcmc?

[mcmcsalot]

anyone but insom lynching cuzz is better than this, if we tie, you lose one town and one posible scum, if anyone but insom lynches we have the chance to lose two unconfirmed, this is how it is from my perspective.

[Insomniac]

Well mcmc no matter what happens I'm the NK so I won't be around tomorrow.

[Galzria]

anyone but insom lynching cuzz is better than this, if we tie, you lose one town and one posible scum, if anyone but insom lynches we have the chance to lose two unconfirmed, this is how it is from my perspective.

According to you if you lynch Cuzz it will be one scum one town anyway, same as a tie. So why not be willing to cast the hammer?

[TheMunch]

Munch, if mcmc hammered Cuzz, and Cuzz flipped town, would you hammer mcmc the following "day"?

Eevee, same question.

no, I wouldn't  want to vote for my 2nd strongest town read.


Ins you suspecting me for that is annoying. why would I say that as scum? whats the benefit? no benefit, I'm just town disappointed in my play that far. Munch is probably scum too lol.

Didn't you have have a town read on me 0 time ago?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.26:

Robz888 (2) - mcmcsalot, Eevee
Eevee (1) - jotheonah
Galzria (1) - mcmcsalot
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (2) - TheMunch, mcmcsalot
TheMunch (1) - jotheonah
Cuzz (4) - mcmcsalot, jotheonah, Insomniac, Eevee {L-1}
mcmcsalot (4) - Insomniac, Robz888, Galzria, Cuzz {L-1}

With 9 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.


30 minutes.

[TheMunch]

Let them both die!!

[TheMunch]

Someone can vote all to lynch both of them?  Not saying they should

[Insomniac]

Let them both die!!

You are aware that IF they are both town there is no tomorrow right?

Also vote all isn't valid now.

[Galzria]

Insomniac, fair to say anybody unvoting at this point is admitting guilt?

If the flip (s) come up 1 scum 1 town, that leaves 1 scum in Joth/Robz/Eevee/Munch - any last words on them?

[mcmcsalot]

anyone but insom lynching cuzz is better than this, if we tie, you lose one town and one posible scum, if anyone but insom lynches we have the chance to lose two unconfirmed, this is how it is from my perspective.

According to you if you lynch Cuzz it will be one scum one town anyway, same as a tie. So why not be willing to cast the hammer?

because anyone else hammering him makes a possiblity hes scum, and the hammerer is scum. If he is town we lose one town If hes scum we lose one scum and possibly another scum. If I hammer we lose either one town, or one scum one town.

[Galzria]

Insomniac, fair to say anybody unvoting at this point is admitting guilt?

If the flip (s) come up 1 scum 1 town, that leaves 1 scum in Joth/Robz/Eevee/Munch - any last words on them?

Yes, I'm discounting double town. I'll be really sad if it's that.

[Insomniac]

Insomniac, fair to say anybody unvoting at this point is admitting guilt?

If the flip (s) come up 1 scum 1 town, that leaves 1 scum in Joth/Robz/Eevee/Munch - any last words on them?

That sounds alright but if they ARE both town OR if Eevee is town and Cuzz is the scum we lose.

[Insomniac]

err nm we don't instant lose.

[Insomniac]

Yes, lets say unvoting at this point is an admission of guilt.

[Galzria]

anyone but insom lynching cuzz is better than this, if we tie, you lose one town and one posible scum, if anyone but insom lynches we have the chance to lose two unconfirmed, this is how it is from my perspective.

According to you if you lynch Cuzz it will be one scum one town anyway, same as a tie. So why not be willing to cast the hammer?

because anyone else hammering him makes a possiblity hes scum, and the hammerer is scum. If he is town we lose one town If hes scum we lose one scum and possibly another scum. If I hammer we lose either one town, or one scum one town.

There is no possibility that he's scum and his "mysterious hemmerer" is also scum.

[TheMunch]

Insomniac, fair to say anybody unvoting at this point is admitting guilt?

If the flip (s) come up 1 scum 1 town, that leaves 1 scum in Joth/Robz/Eevee/Munch - any last words on them?

I dont know how I feel about you continually ask probing questions to Insomniac leaving yourself off the list.  I think it takes the "ofc I'm town" claim to a scummy level, or at least incredibly manipulative.

[mcmcsalot]

anyone but insom lynching cuzz is better than this, if we tie, you lose one town and one posible scum, if anyone but insom lynches we have the chance to lose two unconfirmed, this is how it is from my perspective.

According to you if you lynch Cuzz it will be one scum one town anyway, same as a tie. So why not be willing to cast the hammer?

because anyone else hammering him makes a possiblity hes scum, and the hammerer is scum. If he is town we lose one town If hes scum we lose one scum and possibly another scum. If I hammer we lose either one town, or one scum one town.

There is no possibility that he's scum and his "mysterious hemmerer" is also scum.

i see why, because scum will never hammer him, well it at least takes out one person I don't know if they are town or not.

[Robz888]

I'm back.

[Galzria]

Insomniac, fair to say anybody unvoting at this point is admitting guilt?

If the flip (s) come up 1 scum 1 town, that leaves 1 scum in Joth/Robz/Eevee/Munch - any last words on them?

I dont know how I feel about you continually ask probing questions to Insomniac leaving yourself off the list.  I think it takes the "ofc I'm town" claim to a scummy level, or at least incredibly manipulative.

It's completely manipulative. You're right. I'm town, and Insomniac knows it, and putting my name on the list would serve no purpose.

[Insomniac]

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATLY, UNVOTING IS AN ADMISSION OF SCUMMYNESS


BTW Galz if by some freak chance you ARE scum I'm going to be freaking pissed.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.26:

Robz888 (2) - mcmcsalot, Eevee
Eevee (1) - jotheonah
Galzria (1) - mcmcsalot
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (2) - TheMunch, mcmcsalot
TheMunch (1) - jotheonah
Cuzz (4) - mcmcsalot, jotheonah, Insomniac, Eevee {L-1}
mcmcsalot (4) - Insomniac, Robz888, Galzria, Cuzz {L-1}

With 9 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

[Insomniac]

DO not take my last post as a reason to lynch Galz, you guys need to treat him like your IC tomorrow.

[Insomniac]

As per this q "Joth/Robz/Eevee/Munch"

I currently stand by Jo and Robz being town, so stick to lynching Eevee/Munch probably Munch first.

[Galzria]

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATLY, UNVOTING IS AN ADMISSION OF SCUMMYNESS


BTW Galz if by some freak chance you ARE scum I'm going to be freaking pissed.

If I were scum I would expect you to be - and more. Like, I don't think I could bring myself to play any more games after this. I honestly couldn't.

But I'm not scum, so no worries.

[mcmcsalot]

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATLY, UNVOTING IS AN ADMISSION OF SCUMMYNESS


BTW Galz if by some freak chance you ARE scum I'm going to be freaking pissed.

If I were scum I would expect you to be - and more. Like, I don't think I could bring myself to play any more games after this. I honestly couldn't.

But I'm not scum, so no worries.

I'm going to laugh when we lose with 2 ic's

[Insomniac]

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATLY, UNVOTING IS AN ADMISSION OF SCUMMYNESS


BTW Galz if by some freak chance you ARE scum I'm going to be freaking pissed.

If I were scum I would expect you to be - and more. Like, I don't think I could bring myself to play any more games after this. I honestly couldn't.

But I'm not scum, so no worries.

I'm going to laugh when we lose with 2 ic's

How is that possible?

[Insomniac]

^^NM read your post wrong.

[Galzria]

Munch, would you be willing to hammer either Cuzz or mcmc? If so, which? (DO NOT DO SO)

[Insomniac]

ALSO EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY: VOTING IS AN ADMISSION OF GUILT

[Galzria]

Eevee, do you stand by your belief that mcmc is town and Cuzz scum?

[Eevee]

I agree galz should be treated as an ic

[Eevee]

yes, but more sure about mcmc

[Galzria]

Munch, need your answer now:

If one of mcmc is town and the other scum, where do you stand on which is which?

[Galzria]

Munch, need your answer now:

If one of mcmc is town and the other scum, where do you stand on which is which?

mcmc/cuzz

[Galzria]

Robz and Joth, you were not given the clear to lurk until deadline! Thoughts on mcmc/Cuzz? One scum, One town, GO!

[ashersky]

14 minutes.

[TheMunch]

Munch, would you be willing to hammer either Cuzz or mcmc? If so, which? (DO NOT DO SO)

I dont like that Cuzz didn't come back after earning some town cred.  At least what he said read towny to me.  Mcmc is my only real town read.  I think my feelings are mirrored by Insoms "galz if your scum I'll be pissed".  I dont think I'm needed to hammer either though.

PPE I dont think either being town makes the other town or scum.  I dont know if I think Cuzz or Mcmc is more likely to flip scum.  Insom is pretty sure one will be scum though.

[Galzria]

14 minutes.

Yeah yeah yeah!

[Robz888]

Robz and Joth, you were not given the clear to lurk until deadline! Thoughts on mcmc/Cuzz? One scum, One town, GO!

I think both are scum, but I'm way more sold on mcmc. I'm not even voting for Cuzz!

[Galzria]

Munch, would you be willing to hammer either Cuzz or mcmc? If so, which? (DO NOT DO SO)

I dont like that Cuzz didn't come back after earning some town cred.  At least what he said read towny to me.  Mcmc is my only real town read.  I think my feelings are mirrored by Insoms "galz if your scum I'll be pissed".  I dont think I'm needed to hammer either though.

PPE I dont think either being town makes the other town or scum.  I dont know if I think Cuzz or Mcmc is more likely to flip scum.  Insom is pretty sure one will be scum though.

If they're both town we lose right here. Try again please. We must assume one is scum. Which is it?

[Robz888]

Well, Cuzz has been way less active. Hrrmph.

[TheMunch]

Right now we are lynching one or both of my two town reads.  My scum read Galz is being given IC status, which baffles me.  I dont know what to think about this game right now.

[Insomniac]

Munch, would you be willing to hammer either Cuzz or mcmc? If so, which? (DO NOT DO SO)

I dont like that Cuzz didn't come back after earning some town cred.  At least what he said read towny to me.  Mcmc is my only real town read.  I think my feelings are mirrored by Insoms "galz if your scum I'll be pissed".  I dont think I'm needed to hammer either though.

PPE I dont think either being town makes the other town or scum.  I dont know if I think Cuzz or Mcmc is more likely to flip scum.  Insom is pretty sure one will be scum though.

If they're both town we lose right here. Try again please. We must assume one is scum. Which is it?

I was incorrect about that actually

8 People if they are both town then

6 People, they NK me

5 People, 2 scum, so there is still a mislynch.

[Galzria]

Munch, would you be willing to hammer either Cuzz or mcmc? If so, which? (DO NOT DO SO)

I dont like that Cuzz didn't come back after earning some town cred.  At least what he said read towny to me.  Mcmc is my only real town read.  I think my feelings are mirrored by Insoms "galz if your scum I'll be pissed".  I dont think I'm needed to hammer either though.

PPE I dont think either being town makes the other town or scum.  I dont know if I think Cuzz or Mcmc is more likely to flip scum.  Insom is pretty sure one will be scum though.

If they're both town we lose right here. Try again please. We must assume one is scum. Which is it?

My fault. Comprehension fail. I blanked the second half of the first paragraph. I apologize.

[Insomniac]

REMINDER: VOTING OR UNVOTING IS AN ADMISSION OF GUILT

[Robz888]

Munch, would you be willing to hammer either Cuzz or mcmc? If so, which? (DO NOT DO SO)

I dont like that Cuzz didn't come back after earning some town cred.  At least what he said read towny to me.  Mcmc is my only real town read.  I think my feelings are mirrored by Insoms "galz if your scum I'll be pissed".  I dont think I'm needed to hammer either though.

PPE I dont think either being town makes the other town or scum.  I dont know if I think Cuzz or Mcmc is more likely to flip scum.  Insom is pretty sure one will be scum though.

If they're both town we lose right here. Try again please. We must assume one is scum. Which is it?

What! That's not true. If they're both town, Insomniac gets night killed, and we have me, munch, galz, joth, and eevee left. 2 scum in 5.

[mcmcsalot]

we know robz

[Galzria]

Eevee:

Town: Mcmc
Scum: Cuzz

Robz:

Town: Cuzz
Scum: Mcmc

Munch:

Town: Cuzz
Scum: Mcmc

Is this accurate? (rushing)

[ashersky]

10 minutes.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.27:

Robz888 (2) - mcmcsalot, Eevee
Eevee (1) - jotheonah
Galzria (1) - mcmcsalot
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (2) - TheMunch, mcmcsalot
TheMunch (1) - jotheonah
Cuzz (4) - mcmcsalot, jotheonah, Insomniac, Eevee {L-1}
mcmcsalot (4) - Insomniac, Robz888, Galzria, Cuzz {L-1}

With 9 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

[Robz888]

Eevee:

Town: Mcmc
Scum: Cuzz

Robz:

Town: Cuzz
Scum: Mcmc

Munch:

Town: Cuzz
Scum: Mcmc

Is this accurate? (rushing)

I guess, but that's because you forced me to say one for one and one for the other.

[Robz888]

In fact no. I am changing my mind.

[Galzria]

Insomniac - assume a 1/1 flip between these two:

Do you think the scum partner, knowing his buddy is about to get lynched, would put his scum read on the town, or on his partner?

Eevee:

Town: Mcmc
Scum: Cuzz

Robz:

Town: Cuzz
Scum: Mcmc

Munch:

Town: Cuzz
Scum: Mcmc

Is this accurate? (rushing)

[jotheonah]

Robz and Joth, you were not given the clear to lurk until deadline! Thoughts on mcmc/Cuzz? One scum, One town, GO!

Cuzz is the scum. LALL. mcmc's desperation reads true to me. I realize this is a bit hypocritical re: my response to the Galz situation.

[Robz888]

Mcmc is here. Cuzz is not. Mcmc has posted like crazy. Cuzz has not. If one is scum and the other town, Cuzz is scum over Mcmc.

[TheMunch]

@Galz - MAYBE?!  I really dont know.  Take your two top town reads, pretend I'm asking you to choose which one is scum.

PPE: What Robz said.  "How long have you been beating your wife"

[Robz888]

I think Mcmc has done and said super scummy things but I have to count high post count and presence before deadline favorably.

[mcmcsalot]

then someone needs to break this tie guys

[ashersky]

Vote Count 1.28:

Robz888 (2) - mcmcsalot, Eevee
Eevee (1) - jotheonah
Galzria (1) - mcmcsalot
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (2) - TheMunch, mcmcsalot
TheMunch (1) - jotheonah
Cuzz (4) - mcmcsalot, jotheonah, Insomniac, Eevee {L-1}
mcmcsalot (4) - Insomniac, Robz888, Galzria, Cuzz {L-1}

With 9 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

[Galzria]

In fact no. I am changing my mind.

Not saying you're scum. Not saying you can't change your mind, but straight up don't like this. Feels like "I don't want to say the wrong thing here".

However, after I bitched at Ins this morning I've no right to make this sort of call. I wasn't setting any kind of "trap", I'm just looking to gather information.

[Insomniac]

Insomniac - assume a 1/1 flip between these two:

Do you think the scum partner, knowing his buddy is about to get lynched, would put his scum read on the town, or on his partner?

Eevee:

Town: Mcmc
Scum: Cuzz

Robz:

Town: Cuzz
Scum: Mcmc

Munch:

Town: Cuzz
Scum: Mcmc

Is this accurate? (rushing)

scum for sure

[mcmcsalot]

galz if you take your vote off me eevee was the last one to vote for cuzz, he counts as the hammer and this allows eevee could be scum

[Cuzz]

I'm back. Accidentally just shattered two wine glasses all over my kitchen floor and had to take care of that.

[Insomniac]

REMINDER: VOTING OR UNVOTING IS AN ADMISSION OF GUILT

[Robz888]

In fact no. I am changing my mind.

Not saying you're scum. Not saying you can't change your mind, but straight up don't like this. Feels like "I don't want to say the wrong thing here".

However, after I bitched at Ins this morning I've no right to make this sort of call. I wasn't setting any kind of "trap", I'm just looking to gather information.

I understand. No no, I legit changed my mind. My bro showed up right after I answered your question, huge town points for him, and I remembered his post count.

[mcmcsalot]

and cuzz if your town you neeed to self vote before deadline

[ashersky]

galz if you take your vote off me eevee was the last one to vote for cuzz, he counts as the hammer and this allows eevee could be scum

I should clarify, a deadline-forced lynch has no "hammer."  Only the 5th vote on a person is the "hammer vote."

[Robz888]

Well, we're all actually here now. So bit of a null tell, ultimately.

[Cuzz]

and cuzz if your town you neeed to self vote before deadline

Still don't quite follow this.

[mcmcsalot]

REMINDER: VOTING OR UNVOTING IS AN ADMISSION OF GUILT

INSOM NO OFFENSE SHUT UP. its not galz made a good point, scum will never hammer cuzz if cuzz is scum, so this tie is band and no scum will break it. I am town and am going to die unless someone takes a vote off of me

[mcmcsalot]

OMG ASH then someone unvote me and we let cuzz time out its most favorable for town.

[Insomniac]

Mcmc. No offense but shut up. It's an admission of guilt. The fact that deadline lunches for have a hammer is a huge bonus

[Galzria]

REMINDER: VOTING OR UNVOTING IS AN ADMISSION OF GUILT

[mcmcsalot]

scum will not lynch cuzz if hes town so cuzz will go to deadline, the only thing here is if you think were BOTH scum leave your vote on me if not take the votes off me and avoid losing a town player

[ashersky]

Two minutes.

[Cuzz]

Shouldn't the second lynch of the day always be a run-out-the-clock then? Avoid the vengekill even if its scum?

[Galzria]

Mcmc. No offense but shut up. It's an admission of guilt. The fact that deadline lunches for have a hammer is a huge bonus

I do like some deadline lunch.

[jotheonah]

so we're just going to let them both die?

[Galzria]

Shouldn't the second lynch of the day always be a run-out-the-clock then? Avoid the vengekill even if its scum?

Shhh! Don't tell the mods!

[mcmcsalot]

this tie loses you a town(me) and an unconfirmed(cuzz) even to everyone else one possible mislynch is better than two

[ashersky]

Thread locked.

[Galzria]

so we're just going to let them both die?

Yes. Mcmc refused to hammer Cuzz. I think they're both scum with some responsibility.

[ashersky]

Final Vote Count:

Robz888 (2) - mcmcsalot, Eevee
Eevee (1) - jotheonah
Galzria (1) - mcmcsalot
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (2) - TheMunch, mcmcsalot
TheMunch (1) - jotheonah
Cuzz (4) - mcmcsalot, jotheonah, Insomniac, Eevee {L-1}
mcmcsalot (4) - Insomniac, Robz888, Galzria, Cuzz {L-1}

With 9 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 8:30 p.m. forum time.

[ashersky]

I see you could not make up your minds.  Fine.  I will make it for you.

Blinding lights flashed from the sky, vaporizing Cuzz and mcmcsalot.

I think you all have a lot to think about.  We will give you six hours to reflect on this: Cuzz and mcmcsalot were Vanilla Townies.

Night 1 has begun.  Night actions due in 6 hours.

[ashersky]

The lights flash on with a start.  The remaining five humans wake up quickly, strewn along the grass.

Good morning, humans.  It is time to resume.

Robz888, Eevee, Galzria, jotheonah, and TheMunch look at each other.  They each wonder, where is Insomniac?

A flicker of blue light to their left grabs their attention.  They see the flutter of Insomniac's shirt, charred around the edges, falling to the ground.

During the night, the mafia killed your Innocent Child, Insomniac.

Day 2 has begun.  Day 2 ends on Wednesday, January 16 at 11:59 p.m. forum time.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.1:

Robz888 (0) -
Eevee (0) -
Galzria (0) -
jotheonah (0) -
TheMunch (0) -

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.  Day 2 ends on Wednesday, January 16 at 11:59 p.m. forum time.

[Eevee]

Well, that was not good. The usual don't vote etc, you know the drill.

I'm not even that surprised, I did say my townread on mcmc was stronger than my scumread on cuzz. very unfortunate still, obviously.

I still feel we've got to trust galz. I know I'm town, so one of joth, Munch and Robz is town, other two scum. I actually think it's rather straightforward, I'm quite certain (and I rarely am!) that Robz is scum, and I think Munch is scummier than joth.

But I 100% advocate lynching Robz first. I will again hammer if galz so desires but I'm HIGHLY positive clearing either Munch or joth (by a vengekill) is a VERY good course of action. Like, I feel we actually still have a quite good shot at winning despite our horrible yesterday if I can just convince Galzria to go with this plan.

[Robz888]

Vote: Eevee

Vote: TheMunch

I'll bank everything I know about Mafia on this. If Galzria and Jotheonah are the scumteam, I'll write "I'm the stupidest player ever" in my signature line forever. There's just no way.

[Galzria]

Unvote please Robz. If the scumteam is Joth/Munch, or Joth/Eevee then they can now win.

[Robz888]

Oh jeez Unvote: All

[Robz888]

You're right, I'm sorry.

[Robz888]

Well, no you're not. What if I'm convinced the scumteam isn't Joth/anybody or Galzria/anybody?

[Galzria]

Well, no you're not. What if I'm convinced the scumteam isn't Joth/anybody or Galzria/anybody?

Even if YOU'RE convinced the scum team is Munch/Eevee, that doesn't make you right - and if you're wrong it's game over.

[Eevee]

EVERYTHING HE DOES.

Well, I was going to say the exact same "if you think I have any abilities in reading people at all", but I guess since this is a me or Robz situation already as we simply cant win if the scumteam is Munch and joth (disregarding galz completely) it doesn't matter.

Galzria. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

[Robz888]

Well, no you're not. What if I'm convinced the scumteam isn't Joth/anybody or Galzria/anybody?

Even if YOU'RE convinced the scum team is Munch/Eevee, that doesn't make you right - and if you're wrong it's game over.

But nothing else makes any sense.

And Munch's buddying to Mcmc, and Eevee working up to a scumread on me yesterday, absolutely fits this.

[Eevee]

I'm glad this came down to Galzria reading me and robz. Seems fitting.

Galzria, if you can think of any questions for us, fire away. I'd be happy to do a lot of work to help you get there here.

[Galzria]

To each of you:

Why is Munch-Joth impossible?

[Eevee]

Holy cahones scum/mods/spectators are loving it now if we are both wrong with robz. But we caaant be, I feel exactly like robz claims to be feeling but he just has to be really good at faking it.

[Eevee]

walking home and it's -10 celsius my hands are freezing, sign off until I'm home!

[Galzria]

Holy cahones scum/mods/spectators are loving it now if we are both wrong with robz. But we caaant be, I feel exactly like robz claims to be feeling but he just has to be really good at faking it.

Who are the "we" that you're speaking about? I've given no read on Robz.

[Eevee]

who am I kidding ill run home, too excited

[Eevee]

Holy cahones scum/mods/spectators are loving it now if we are both wrong with robz. But we caaant be, I feel exactly like robz claims to be feeling but he just has to be really good at faking it.

Who are the "we" that you're speaking about? I've given no read on Robz.

me and robz. about each other. if munch and joth are the scum.

[Robz888]

To each of you:

Why is Munch-Joth impossible?

Because Jo isn't scum. I have like absolute faith in my read on him here. I think it's just as likely your episode with Ins yesterday was a scum gambit, Galz, than Joth being scum. Granted, I think there's a 99% chance you are town, and that whole thing was real. So too my town read on Joth. There's no way he plays like this as scum.

[Galzria]

Robz, why shouldn't I lynch you? I know every person on mcmc was town except for you. Why should I believe that it was an all town wagon?

[Galzria]

To each of you:

Why is Munch-Joth impossible?

Because Jo isn't scum. I have like absolute faith in my read on him here. I think it's just as likely your episode with Ins yesterday was a scum gambit, Galz, than Joth being scum. Granted, I think there's a 99% chance you are town, and that whole thing was real. So too my town read on Joth. There's no way he plays like this as scum.

Plays like "this"

Define "This" please. Examples. You want me to see him as town, show me.

[Robz888]

Robz, why shouldn't I lynch you? I know every person on mcmc was town except for you. Why should I believe that it was an all town wagon?

If you want to lynch me to punish me for reading my brother wrong, fine, I did. He also read me wrong, beginning with that case against me for reaction to the first game-breaking thing. The case never made sense to me and after that I read everything he said as scummy.

[Robz888]

To each of you:

Why is Munch-Joth impossible?

Because Jo isn't scum. I have like absolute faith in my read on him here. I think it's just as likely your episode with Ins yesterday was a scum gambit, Galz, than Joth being scum. Granted, I think there's a 99% chance you are town, and that whole thing was real. So too my town read on Joth. There's no way he plays like this as scum.

Plays like "this"

Define "This" please. Examples. You want me to see him as town, show me.

I did this exercise yesterday--with examples!--when Insomniac asked. He concurred, mightily I may add, and we moved on. I'll be happy to dig them up again for you, however. (And by happy, I mean resigned.)

[Galzria]

Generics generics generics.

I'm tired of words. Show me. Don't tell me. I invented spinning a story. At the end of the day it's a good read, but I want something more.

[Robz888]

I realize now that scum have trapped me most excellently, and my hats off to Eevee and Munch. And I let them get away with it, certainly. Of course they'd kill Insomniac anyway, but I'm sure they knew when the chips are down who Galzria will come out against. I'm betting I know, too.

[Robz888]

And that's not a shot at you Galz, not at all. I'm going to try to convince you, but I don't expect to succeed. Certainly I look the worst.

[Robz888]

I wonder if I just get unlucky in my scum reads that never pan out. It's a pity you didn't play M-XVI, Galz. I'm duplicating my play like crazy here, and Insomniac was my Voltgloss.

[Galzria]

I wonder if I just get unlucky in my scum reads that never pan out. It's a pity you didn't play M-XVI, Galz. I'm duplicating my play like crazy here, and Insomniac was my Voltgloss.

I modded it with Yuma.

[Robz888]

I wonder if I just get unlucky in my scum reads that never pan out. It's a pity you didn't play M-XVI, Galz. I'm duplicating my play like crazy here, and Insomniac was my Voltgloss.

I modded it with Yuma.

Then you know all about it.

[Eevee]

Home and FINALLY I see a keyboard, second time in this entire game. I have A LOT of thoughts. Preferences whether I should do one big post or lots of smaller ones?

[Robz888]

I have to continue this in the morning, sorry, it's 2:00 AM for me.

[Galzria]

Just post them Eevee.

[Eevee]

So, first of all, I'm coming to this from the assumptions that I'm town because my role pm says so and that Galzria is town. If Galzria is scum, all this is moot and they win, and that's the end of it. I'll give that some 2% chance, but because in that case we are lost either way, it can just be disregarded in the analysis. I'm mostly writing this for Galzria, because I feel his towniness is so likely he should be the one controlling all our votes today. Yes, I mean that. Galzria should pick who is lynched and who drops the hammer. Everyone okay with that BEFORE he picks his targets? I think it's pretty good he haven't indicated much which way he is swaying to at the moment. We could even catch both scum in the first lynch, which would be swell.

So, Robz-Munch, Robz-Joth or Joth-Munch, to me anyways. We want to lynch the guy who we think is the most likely to be scum and have his partner drop the hammer.

Robz:
I retract my earlier certainty of Robz being scum. He could be town, but that would require him very unfortunately been wrong about THREE major reads.
-His dead-certainty on me being scum. I don't feel I can adequately analyze whether that would be a reasonable stance for town Robz or not. It's the least damning of these to me either way.
-His certainty on joth being town is mind-boggling to me. He says Joth screams of townjoth and couldn't possibly be able to play like this as scum. I disagree SO SO much. Joth is VERY hard to meta-read for me. Robz might be better than I am at reading Joth, sure. But all the posts he pulled up saying "this is town joth, guys", they were just STANDARD joth to me. I had NO clue he was scum in pokemafia, I had to check my vision when I saw his flip because at the time I didn't know there were two scum teams. NOTHING Joth has done warrants a read that strong. He has been his jokey self, but why the hell would he not be if he was scum!? Joth is NOT stupid! He couldn't make the same jokes as scum JUST as easily. None of his positions are particularly towny. Robz's reads is 100% based on him doing stuff he could do as scum JUST as well, Robz is just arguing he is SURE Joth wouldn't be able to. I say that statement is simply untrue.
-Robz not realizing mcmc was town. Like, this was when I first thought "wow, no way Robz is not scum". I encourage you to read back to the "posting my phone number to the forums so some random creeps from finland and canada can text me to come help town if need be" - incident. No-one.does.that.as.scum, no way. No way, never. Well, now that I type this out I guess Insomniac didn't realize he had to be town either, which is aggravating. But I trust Robz should have realized his own brother was being sincere there.

So, conclusion, for Robz to be town he has to have made three TERRIBLE reads. Possible, sure. Unlikely, I think so. These were his 3 biggest reads, for him to be town he would have had to be 100% wrong on each and every one of them.
Galzria pointed out mcmc's whole wagon was town, other than Robz. This is sickening to me because seriously how did you not see it!?!, but okay. That lynch COULD have been 100% town driven... but again, it's pretty unlikely. These are stacking up.

Why I think Robz could not be scum:
His posting today reminds me of how I feel SO much. Okay, it's more how I felt as I've now given Robz a bit higher chance of being town.. it's just still not very high. Yet it felt SO sincere and I could relate so well I started considering what if what if Munch and Joth are town and Robz really just was terribly wrong about everyone. Also, Munch and Joth have played plenty scummy as well, in fact disregarding all the evidence I presented above my gut would say "joth+munch". But, I got to remember Robz has fooled my gut before. It doesn't work on him. And the evidence is just so damning. Also, I got to admit I started considering Robz being town more because I remember Ash's flip in yuma's recent game. I was as sure about ashersky then, and what do you know.

Oh, one other point I've been wanting to post and now that pokemafia is over, I finally can. Lurking Robz is scum Robz. He has no shame in that regard. Here, he hasn't been straight up lurky, but not super active either. I think I have more posts than he does despite playing the entire game from my phone and town Robz usually leads these post counts. I would also argue his non-low post count is mitigated by the fact all his reads have been wrong (if he is town, he IS wrong about joth and me on top of being wrong about mcmc).

Me:
I've been bad this far, I have. While I joined the Jimmm-wagon because Ins requested me to, I did voice my support on it before. Certainly read Jimm wrong, sorry. I explicitly made clear I HATED the mcmc wagon, and tried to get other people abandon it as well. Galzria I started giving obvtown-credit before it was obvious everyone would. Cuzz, I did participate in lynching, I was wrong about him. It was a case I felt was strong enough, especially so because mcmc was the alternative wagon. So, while being wrong about him is certainly a strike against me, the fact not voting for Cuzz would have contributed to the lynch of a huge town read made me more eager to think he was scum and justifies that a bit. Munch and Joth I've found "slightly scummy for the lack of a town read" all game, and it's pretty much where I'm at still. It's not hard at all to believe one or both of them is scum.

[Eevee]

To each of you:

Why is Munch-Joth impossible?

It's not impossible. I'd even say it was probable if there wasn't so much evidence pointing to Robz being scum.

[jotheonah]

Generics generics generics.

I'm tired of words. Show me. Don't tell me. I invented spinning a story. At the end of the day it's a good read, but I want something more.

This is the guy we want to make our IC?

We can't afford it. I think everyone, even Galzria, needs to be on the table. My top-read is actually Munch-Eevee, but it worries me that Robz thinks that too, especially because I articulated that read yeaterday. This could certainly be scumRobz buddying me.

But if it is he's been SO OBVIOUS. Idk.

I overslept, so I have to leave for work now and I don't know when I can be back. Hopefully soon.

[jotheonah]

You know the last time I made Galzria obv town in my eyes nd eliminated him from consideration? M-II. Never again.

[Galzria]

You know the last time I made Galzria obv town in my eyes nd eliminated him from consideration? M-II. Never again.

This is NOTHING like M-II Joth.

[TheMunch]

Ok.  I'm awake.  I have a few thoughts:

1) I was right about both mcmc and cuzz being town
2) My failure was to not be confident in those reads
3) The lack of confidence came from the overconfidence of other players that one of cuzz/mcmc had to be scum and the conspiracy theory on mcmc

But more than that, ok we lynched Cuzz for no reason.  Mcmc got CRUCIFIED for what? pushing a joth lynch and going against Insomniac?  I agreed with him.  Now we know that his push on joth was genuine.  I for one will refuse to consider Galz as an IC and think you all should as well.  He was incredibly manipulative at the end of D1 and should be looked at much closer for this.

Joth-Galz scum team.

[jotheonah]

You know the last time I made Galzria obv town in my eyes nd eliminated him from consideration? M-II. Never again.

This is NOTHING like M-II Joth.

It could be a lot like it if you and Robz are the scum team. That's my nightmare scenario.

[jotheonah]

Ok.  I'm awake.  I have a few thoughts:

1) I was right about both mcmc and cuzz being town
2) My failure was to not be confident in those reads
3) The lack of confidence came from the overconfidence of other players that one of cuzz/mcmc had to be scum and the conspiracy theory on mcmc

But more than that, ok we lynched Cuzz for no reason.  Mcmc got CRUCIFIED for what? pushing a joth lynch and going against Insomniac?  I agreed with him.  Now we know that his push on joth was genuine.  I for one will refuse to consider Galz as an IC and think you all should as well.  He was incredibly manipulative at the end of D1 and should be looked at much closer for this.

Joth-Galz scum team.

Just because mcmc was town doesn't mean he was right. He also thought Cuzz was scum. Not sure sleeping his reads is the smart play.

[TheMunch]

More food for thought:

Alive are Robz/Eevee/Galz/Joth/Munch.  2 of us are scum (In your eyes I will acknowledge that this includes me cause some of us want to try to not be manipulative).

So we're chatting and discussing possible scum pairs.  It doesn't bother you all (talking to the townies out there which at this point I believe to be Eevee/Robz, but in case I'm wrong the townies do know who they are and should think about this) how comfortable people are to talk about scum pairs among not-galz and not-robz?  Scum just need one more mislynch? Then they control half the town and we lose (whether or not we mislynch first or second).  So as long as just one person we are not considering (Galz and Robz) is scum, then it is perfectly fine for them.  They win.  They can talk about scum pairs including their partner freely and still win.  This is incredibly dangerous.

PPE: Town doesn't mean his right, that is correct.   But that same logic would also say that Insom giving Galz IC status also doesn't mean he is right.  But what I mean to say is not that mcmc is infallible but that we need to look at who was willing to crucify him and push the case that hes going against the IC and pushing a case on the role-not-confirmed joth.  The point is we need to realize that we were all wrong to think that mcmc is scum (cause we didn't unvote and just let cuzz die, although insom shouting voting/unvoting is an admission of guilt didn't help, I bet scum was loving that).  Some people, namely the 2 scum, were faking being wrong.  They knew both cuzz and mcmc were town and were fine letting them both die.  Thats what we need to think about when town flips and arguments in favor of that player being scummy very well might be driven by scum.

[Galzria]

You know the last time I made Galzria obv town in my eyes nd eliminated him from consideration? M-II. Never again.

This is NOTHING like M-II Joth.

It could be a lot like it if you and Robz are the scum team. That's my nightmare scenario.

I understand that.

But the difference is that here you would honestly have to think I would pull that crap with Insomniac as scum - and there's no way. I feel bad enough about it as is, because I've known and played with Insomniac as long as I have with you. I would hope that you would see that I wouldn't ever intentionally do that for some gain in a game.

[jotheonah]

More food for thought:

Alive are Robz/Eevee/Galz/Joth/Munch.  2 of us are scum (In your eyes I will acknowledge that this includes me cause some of us want to try to not be manipulative).

So we're chatting and discussing possible scum pairs.  It doesn't bother you all (talking to the townies out there which at this point I believe to be Eevee/Robz, but in case I'm wrong the townies do know who they are and should think about this) how comfortable people are to talk about scum pairs among not-galz and not-robz?  Scum just need one more mislynch? Then they control half the town and we lose (whether or not we mislynch first or second).  So as long as just one person we are not considering (Galz and Robz) is scum, then it is perfectly fine for them.  They win.  They can talk about scum pairs including their partner freely and still win.  This is incredibly dangerous.

PPE: Town doesn't mean his right, that is correct.   But that same logic would also say that Insom giving Galz IC status also doesn't mean he is right.  But what I mean to say is not that mcmc is infallible but that we need to look at who was willing to crucify him and push the case that hes going against the IC and pushing a case on the role-not-confirmed joth.  The point is we need to realize that we were all wrong to think that mcmc is scum (cause we didn't unvote and just let cuzz die, although insom shouting voting/unvoting is an admission of guilt didn't help, I bet scum was loving that).  Some people, namely the 2 scum, were faking being wrong.  They knew both cuzz and mcmc were town and were fine letting them both die.  Thats what we need to think about when town flips and arguments in favor of that player being scummy very well might be driven by scum.

Is that theory talk accurate?

There are 2 scum. If we lynch one, and they get a vengeful, the town will be down to 2 town - 1 scum and we'll still get another lynch before night. So scum really can't safely bus - their best shot is to both survive this next lynch, right?

[Galzria]

More food for thought:

Alive are Robz/Eevee/Galz/Joth/Munch.  2 of us are scum (In your eyes I will acknowledge that this includes me cause some of us want to try to not be manipulative).

So we're chatting and discussing possible scum pairs.  It doesn't bother you all (talking to the townies out there which at this point I believe to be Eevee/Robz, but in case I'm wrong the townies do know who they are and should think about this) how comfortable people are to talk about scum pairs among not-galz and not-robz?  Scum just need one more mislynch? Then they control half the town and we lose (whether or not we mislynch first or second).  So as long as just one person we are not considering (Galz and Robz) is scum, then it is perfectly fine for them.  They win.  They can talk about scum pairs including their partner freely and still win.  This is incredibly dangerous.

PPE: Town doesn't mean his right, that is correct.   But that same logic would also say that Insom giving Galz IC status also doesn't mean he is right.  But what I mean to say is not that mcmc is infallible but that we need to look at who was willing to crucify him and push the case that hes going against the IC and pushing a case on the role-not-confirmed joth.  The point is we need to realize that we were all wrong to think that mcmc is scum (cause we didn't unvote and just let cuzz die, although insom shouting voting/unvoting is an admission of guilt didn't help, I bet scum was loving that).  Some people, namely the 2 scum, were faking being wrong.  They knew both cuzz and mcmc were town and were fine letting them both die.  Thats what we need to think about when town flips and arguments in favor of that player being scummy very well might be driven by scum.

Is that theory talk accurate?

There are 2 scum. If we lynch one, and they get a vengeful, the town will be down to 2 town - 1 scum and we'll still get another lynch before night. So scum really can't safely bus - their best shot is to both survive this next lynch, right?

Correct.

[TheMunch]

Is that theory talk accurate?

There are 2 scum. If we lynch one, and they get a vengeful, the town will be down to 2 town - 1 scum and we'll still get another lynch before night. So scum really can't safely bus - their best shot is to both survive this next lynch, right?

That would be 0 mislynches.  They get 1.  They can bus if we've given one of their team IC status (Galz/Robz)

[Galzria]

So here's where I stand:

Eevee vs Robz:

Based on last nights interactions, I honestly don't know. I don't think I want to see either of them lynched, however I believe one is scum. That person I'm going to name Robz, and my reason is twofold:

First, Eevee reads FAR more genuine to me. Eevee was trying to look analytically at things while Robz was spouting off AtE. I hate AtE arguments. Cuzz proved just how effective scum can use them in M-XVI to avoid a lynch. Furthermore, I find Robz' town read on Joth INCREDIBLY manufactured. Yes, I read his "evidence" to Insomniac about it - but there wasn't anything there. Town!Robz is better than that.

Second, I believe very, very strongly in the buddy rule. Which rule is that?

One of my most favorite scum hunting tools is looking to see who is buddy-buddy, and finding the ONE scum between them. It's been a solid device since as far back as M-II.

Examples:
Galzria-Joth - MII
Robz-Volt - MII
O-Galz - MIV
Theorel-All - MV
Theorel-eHunt - MVI (this is the first instance that I used the tool, to successfully nail Theorel as scum D2 - although he wasn't killed until later)
CF-Theorel - MVIII (CF was tricky, but this was the case I brought against him before the infamous "0% chance of flipping town" slip)

Why would this work here for Scum!Robz? Because if he can use his unyielding town read on an actual townie to create reciprocal feelings, then he can't be lynched. In this case, Joth is the town between the two, and Robz needs Joth to be unwilling to consider him as an option.

But like I said, I wouldn't swear 100% by this read, so I don't want to lynch Robz. I DO want him to be the hammer vote however.

This brings me back to Joth/Eevee/Munch

Eevee I've already expressed above.

Joth I think is town in part based on Robz' play, and in part based on posts like:

You know the last time I made Galzria obv town in my eyes nd eliminated him from consideration? M-II. Never again.

This is NOTHING like M-II Joth.

It could be a lot like it if you" and Robz are the scum team. That's my nightmare scenario.

Scum Joth doesn't fake that level of concern. And while I might be wrong, I've got a DAMN good track record on reading Joth -when he's scum- (not so much when town )

This brings me to Munch. Who was on NEITHER wagon yesterday, and expressed no interest to JOIN either wagon. He was absent much of the time leading up to the deadline so I can't even say that he showed a strong stance on either of those lynches.

One of the things I'm really frustrated with is mcmc's refusal to hammer Cuzz. If mcmc had -honestly- thought Cuzz was scum (and I believe that he did), then he had to have seen that there were only four outcomes:

Mcmc hammers scum Cuzz - Both die, 1 town 1 scum.
Mcmc doesn't hammer scum Cuzz but deadlines - Both die, 1 scum 1 town

SAME result.

Mcmc hammers town Cuzz - Cuzz dies, 1 town
Mcmc doesn't hammer town Cuzz but deadlines - Both die, 2 town

This is why I personally was so thrown off by mcmc. His refusal to be willing to hammer Cuzz boggled me.

But the fact remains that a hammer on either one would've resulted in only 1 town dying, not two. Insomniac didn't start with the "Voting/Unvoting is admission of guilt" until 30 minutes prior to the deadline. Up until that point we were still strongly working to get an actual lynch through.

And this is where Munch reads scummy to me. Because he was unwilling to take a stand on either, instead actively choosing to let them deadline together.

I would like to see Munch lynched, and Robz hammer, but I wish to hear more from everybody first.

[TheMunch]

So mcmc was voting for Cuzz.  He couldn't have hammered....

[Galzria]

So mcmc was voting for Cuzz.  He couldn't have hammered....

It could've been set up so he could, and the question was put to him hours before the deadline.

[TheMunch]

Also, I did take a stance yesterday, albeit lacking confidence.  My stance was that they were both town and Galzria was forcing me to choose one of them as scum.

[TheMunch]

So mcmc was voting for Cuzz.  He couldn't have hammered....

It could've been set up so he could, and the question was put to him hours before the deadline.

Was it though?  Was there ever talk of elaborately allowing mcmc to hammer Cuzz to which mcmc's response was refusal?

[Galzria]

Also, I did take a stance yesterday, albeit lacking confidence.  My stance was that they were both town and Galzria was forcing me to choose one of them as scum.

And yet you showed no interest in making it one death instead of two? Were you aware that they both died in a tie?

See, I don't buy this answer in this setup with these rules. If you thought they were both town then lynching one instead of deadlining two is much better. Unless you're scum, in which case seeing both killed is superior - something that could only be achieved by not voting.

[Galzria]

So mcmc was voting for Cuzz.  He couldn't have hammered....

It could've been set up so he could, and the question was put to him hours before the deadline.

Was it though?  Was there ever talk of elaborately allowing mcmc to hammer Cuzz to which mcmc's response was refusal?

It was not as long before the deadline as I recall, but man was the thread flying fast. Felt like SO much happened. Probably because we saw 150 posts in 45 minutes... Sheesh!

However, (one moment):

[Galzria]

mcmc, would you hammer Cuzz?

nope, I think cuzz is scum, I think he will vengekill me and I think thats bad for town.

[TheMunch]

Yeah.  I was actually making a post when thread locked stating that 2 deaths instead of 1 isn't actually the worst thing to happen because they dont actually both count as mislynches.  It still counted as one mislynch and we still get our third mislynch today.  Having one more town alive frankly would add a great bit of confusion today.  I am much happier to still have one mislynch left and an extra flip.

PPE: Ok, then I disagree with that statement from mcmc.  Clearly, it would not have been bad for town if he did that.  But theres something that makes me uneasy that you were the one that asked that question and then were the one to make the comment about how weird it was that mcmc wouldn't hammer.  Maybe I missed this too, but did you also say this yesterday?  That mcmc was weird for not being willing to hammer?

That being said I went and checked your huge post again.  I really dont understand the logical step in your case from "mcmc is weird for not wanting to hammer" to "thats why I think the Munch is scum".

[jotheonah]

Oh, I missed that. Yeah that reads really scummy.

Galz, to answer your question, I tentatively am OK with Robz hammering Munch. But since we really can't afford to be wrong, I think we should take our time. I think I'll have time around lunch to do some re-reading and really try to get to where I feel good about my reads.

I mean, obviously that's game over if Robz is scum and TheMunch is town, which would also be true if you and Robz were the scum team. How do you feel about TheMunch hammering Robz?

[Galzria]

Indeed I did:

anyone but insom lynching cuzz is better than this, if we tie, you lose one town and one posible scum, if anyone but insom lynches we have the chance to lose two unconfirmed, this is how it is from my perspective.

According to you if you lynch Cuzz it will be one scum one town anyway, same as a tie. So why not be willing to cast the hammer?

because anyone else hammering him makes a possiblity hes scum, and the hammerer is scum. If he is town we lose one town If hes scum we lose one scum and possibly another scum. If I hammer we lose either one town, or one scum one town.

There is no possibility that he's scum and his "mysterious hemmerer" is also scum.

[TheMunch]

Oh, I missed that. Yeah that reads really scummy.

What is "that"

[Galzria]

Oh, I missed that. Yeah that reads really scummy.

Galz, to answer your question, I tentatively am OK with Robz hammering Munch. But since we really can't afford to be wrong, I think we should take our time. I think I'll have time around lunch to do some re-reading and really try to get to where I feel good about my reads.

I mean, obviously that's game over if Robz is scum and TheMunch is town, which would also be true if you and Robz were the scum team. How do you feel about TheMunch hammering Robz?

I would consider it an option. I understand why you personally would want that. I don't THINK the scumteam is Joth-Munch, so I don't think you're redirecting for a scum win (at least not intentionally! If it's Eevee/Munch you would be!)

[Galzria]

Yeah.  I was actually making a post when thread locked stating that 2 deaths instead of 1 isn't actually the worst thing to happen because they dont actually both count as mislynches.  It still counted as one mislynch and we still get our third mislynch today.  Having one more town alive frankly would add a great bit of confusion today.  I am much happier to still have one mislynch left and an extra flip.

PPE: Ok, then I disagree with that statement from mcmc.  Clearly, it would not have been bad for town if he did that.  But theres something that makes me uneasy that you were the one that asked that question and then were the one to make the comment about how weird it was that mcmc wouldn't hammer.  Maybe I missed this too, but did you also say this yesterday?  That mcmc was weird for not being willing to hammer?

That being said I went and checked your huge post again.  I really dont understand the logical step in your case from "mcmc is weird for not wanting to hammer" to "thats why I think the Munch is scum".

But... We aren't limited by mislynches. 2 deaths was twice as bad as one!

If only one died yesterday, then we would have 4 town here and two scum. In normal situations you're right - even parity is bad - but this isn't a normal setup. 1 mislynch wouldn't mean an instant loss since we don't go to night. We would get a flip, and if town, have the arguments and wagons to analyze to decide our second lynch.

We essentially made today a single lynch day instead of a double.

[TheMunch]

Yeah.  I was actually making a post when thread locked stating that 2 deaths instead of 1 isn't actually the worst thing to happen because they dont actually both count as mislynches.  It still counted as one mislynch and we still get our third mislynch today.  Having one more town alive frankly would add a great bit of confusion today.  I am much happier to still have one mislynch left and an extra flip.

PPE: Ok, then I disagree with that statement from mcmc.  Clearly, it would not have been bad for town if he did that.  But theres something that makes me uneasy that you were the one that asked that question and then were the one to make the comment about how weird it was that mcmc wouldn't hammer.  Maybe I missed this too, but did you also say this yesterday?  That mcmc was weird for not being willing to hammer?

That being said I went and checked your huge post again.  I really dont understand the logical step in your case from "mcmc is weird for not wanting to hammer" to "thats why I think the Munch is scum".

But... We aren't limited by mislynches. 2 deaths was twice as bad as one!

If only one died yesterday, then we would have 4 town here and two scum. In normal situations you're right - even parity is bad - but this isn't a normal setup. 1 mislynch wouldn't mean an instant loss since we don't go to night. We would get a flip, and if town, have the arguments and wagons to analyze to decide our second lynch.

We essentially made today a single lynch day instead of a double.

This is wrong.  If it was 4-2, we mislynch first its 3-2, then we lynch scum, its now 2-1 and we lose.  No matter what we would only get one mislynch.  Whether or not we "get" a second lynch, the game is still over.  Just in this case, we start 3-2 and we get the benefit of knowing mcmc is town (as opposed to his allignment being unknown and you couldn't have set up a case on him today instead

[TheMunch]

Yeah.  I was actually making a post when thread locked stating that 2 deaths instead of 1 isn't actually the worst thing to happen because they dont actually both count as mislynches.  It still counted as one mislynch and we still get our third mislynch today.  Having one more town alive frankly would add a great bit of confusion today.  I am much happier to still have one mislynch left and an extra flip.

PPE: Ok, then I disagree with that statement from mcmc.  Clearly, it would not have been bad for town if he did that.  But theres something that makes me uneasy that you were the one that asked that question and then were the one to make the comment about how weird it was that mcmc wouldn't hammer.  Maybe I missed this too, but did you also say this yesterday?  That mcmc was weird for not being willing to hammer?

That being said I went and checked your huge post again.  I really dont understand the logical step in your case from "mcmc is weird for not wanting to hammer" to "thats why I think the Munch is scum".

But... We aren't limited by mislynches. 2 deaths was twice as bad as one!

If only one died yesterday, then we would have 4 town here and two scum. In normal situations you're right - even parity is bad - but this isn't a normal setup. 1 mislynch wouldn't mean an instant loss since we don't go to night. We would get a flip, and if town, have the arguments and wagons to analyze to decide our second lynch.

We essentially made today a single lynch day instead of a double.

This is wrong.  If it was 4-2, we mislynch first its 3-2, then we lynch scum, its now 2-1 and we lose.  No matter what we would only get one mislynch.  Whether or not we "get" a second lynch, the game is still over.  Just in this case, we start 3-2 and we get the benefit of knowing mcmc is town (as opposed to his allignment being unknown and you couldn't have set up a case on him today instead

Thinking more, its more like we get three lynches today and we've already used one as a mislynch.  If we mislynch first in the 4-2 set up, we'd be in the same position we are right now, but with only one lynch to follow it up.

[Galzria]

Yeah.  I was actually making a post when thread locked stating that 2 deaths instead of 1 isn't actually the worst thing to happen because they dont actually both count as mislynches.  It still counted as one mislynch and we still get our third mislynch today.  Having one more town alive frankly would add a great bit of confusion today.  I am much happier to still have one mislynch left and an extra flip.

PPE: Ok, then I disagree with that statement from mcmc.  Clearly, it would not have been bad for town if he did that.  But theres something that makes me uneasy that you were the one that asked that question and then were the one to make the comment about how weird it was that mcmc wouldn't hammer.  Maybe I missed this too, but did you also say this yesterday?  That mcmc was weird for not being willing to hammer?

That being said I went and checked your huge post again.  I really dont understand the logical step in your case from "mcmc is weird for not wanting to hammer" to "thats why I think the Munch is scum".

The step is made because you weren't on either wagon. You were the only player not on either. Had you been on either we would've had only a single death. In any other game this is ridiculous because you had self proclaimed town reads on both of them - but in this setup that's even worse because you're then stating a belief that they're both town, yet also that letting them both die is ok. A vote on noone is strictly worse than a vote on either - even if they're both town.

The only situation hammering one is bad in is if one is scum and the other town, and you choose the town - because this is strictly removing a scum lynch. But you personally didn't express any belief that this was the case. You said you thought both were town.

I guess it feels like, as scum, you could take the best of both world - Not by on a townie lynch (either of them!), and also see two townies dead in one swoop.

As town, your actions to "do nothing" with two town reads make as little sense to me as mcmc not wanting to hammer Cuzz. I was wrong about mcmc's alignment, but I don't think my confusion over his answer was unfounded.

[TheMunch]

Thinking more through the situation: 4-2 mislynch -> 3-2.  So now its 3-2.  Wed need to find scum for starters.  Then put only 2 votes on him so there isn't a town hammer then let it go to deadline.  But there are 2 scum, who could just put their two votes down on someone else.  Then the same thing still happens.  We wouldn't have gotten through to day 3 after a mislynch if we started 4-2.  BUT right now, its 3-2 AND we can still win by lynching scum twice.

PPE: read all my theory stuff, including this one.  You can disagree with that if you like, but the 1 or 2 town dead doesn't actually make a whole lot of difference.  The 1 town dead vs 2 town dead doesn't actually effect at all the necessity to lynch correctly right now.  In this case we have to pick 2 scum out of 5 people instead of 6.

[Galzria]

Yeah.  I was actually making a post when thread locked stating that 2 deaths instead of 1 isn't actually the worst thing to happen because they dont actually both count as mislynches.  It still counted as one mislynch and we still get our third mislynch today.  Having one more town alive frankly would add a great bit of confusion today.  I am much happier to still have one mislynch left and an extra flip.

PPE: Ok, then I disagree with that statement from mcmc.  Clearly, it would not have been bad for town if he did that.  But theres something that makes me uneasy that you were the one that asked that question and then were the one to make the comment about how weird it was that mcmc wouldn't hammer.  Maybe I missed this too, but did you also say this yesterday?  That mcmc was weird for not being willing to hammer?

That being said I went and checked your huge post again.  I really dont understand the logical step in your case from "mcmc is weird for not wanting to hammer" to "thats why I think the Munch is scum".

But... We aren't limited by mislynches. 2 deaths was twice as bad as one!

If only one died yesterday, then we would have 4 town here and two scum. In normal situations you're right - even parity is bad - but this isn't a normal setup. 1 mislynch wouldn't mean an instant loss since we don't go to night. We would get a flip, and if town, have the arguments and wagons to analyze to decide our second lynch.

We essentially made today a single lynch day instead of a double.

This is wrong.  If it was 4-2, we mislynch first its 3-2, then we lynch scum, its now 2-1 and we lose.  No matter what we would only get one mislynch.  Whether or not we "get" a second lynch, the game is still over.  Just in this case, we start 3-2 and we get the benefit of knowing mcmc is town (as opposed to his allignment being unknown and you couldn't have set up a case on him today instead

Thinking more, its more like we get three lynches today and we've already used one as a mislynch.  If we mislynch first in the 4-2 set up, we'd be in the same position we are right now, but with only one lynch to follow it up.

We don't lose if we lynch scum with a town hammer. Two Town and One scum do not an endgame make.

We lose on the next mislynch. Losing two town yesterday cost us an available mislynch today (as you noted I'm your second post here)

[TheMunch]

2 town 1 scum after the second lynch if town hammers.  Then they get the night kill and town loses.

[Galzria]

Thinking more through the situation: 4-2 mislynch -> 3-2.  So now its 3-2.  Wed need to find scum for starters.  Then put only 2 votes on him so there isn't a town hammer then let it go to deadline.  But there are 2 scum, who could just put their two votes down on someone else.  Then the same thing still happens.  We wouldn't have gotten through to day 3 after a mislynch if we started 4-2.  BUT right now, its 3-2 AND we can still win by lynching scum twice.

PPE: read all my theory stuff, including this one.  You can disagree with that if you like, but the 1 or 2 town dead doesn't actually make a whole lot of difference.  The 1 town dead vs 2 town dead doesn't actually effect at all the necessity to lynch correctly right now.  In this case we have to pick 2 scum out of 5 people instead of 6.

It breaks down like this:

D2 starts - We MUST hit scum. It's 3-2 and a mislynch is game over. We don't need to lynch scum with a scum hammer, because 2-1 is still viable (scum has 1/3 the town, not 1/2). We then need to find the last scum.

However, IF we had only lynched 1 and not 2:

D2 starts - We do not NEED to hit scum. If we fail, we are put into a 3-2 situation. At this point, as per above, we must hit scum or lose. Unlike above however, it must be a scum lynch with a scum hammer.

... Which they have no reason to do since town can't lynch them on their own. Going 2-1 there isn't possible since we head to night.

So yes, you're correct that in either case we need to double up scum lynches. And yes, having one fewer townie to do so with is probably better. Even vs Odd parity and all.

:-/ That "two lynches a day" thing is weird.

[TheMunch]

Ok I gotta head into work.  I'm going to leave it at this and I want to hear from Robz/Eevee.

My understanding of Galz case on me is that my "sitting back" at the end of yesterday was an elaborate ruse to put town in worse shape today.  This argument doesn't actually work if we are actually in no worse shape today than we would be if mcmc hammered cuzz.  I'll let you all figure this out for yourself but the two situations are:

Cuzz is dead, Mcmc is alive, we dont know that hes town.  It is 4 town, 2 scum.
Cuzz and mcmc are dead, both confirmed town.  It is 3 town, 2 scum.

I encourage each of you to actually think through both of these situations and determine whether the difference of mcmc being alive changes the fact that if our first lynch hits town we lose.  In both scenarios I feel we have to lynch scum, then lynch scum again or else we lose, just in this case we get the added bonus of knowing mcmc is town.

PPE: Maybe Galzria is even coming around?

[jotheonah]

I think the tactic TheMunch is taking to arguing this is scummy. He's not saying "I didn't sit around and force a double lynch," he's owning up to that and trying to convince us that it was a pro-town decision. That just strikes me as more of a scum play than town. Like he sat around all night rehearsing an explanation for scummy behavior he knew he'd be called out on.

I'm warming to a Munch lynch. And if Eevee is his partner, that explains why he's waiting for Eevee to weigh in here.

[TheMunch]

I think the tactic TheMunch is taking to arguing this is scummy. He's not saying "I didn't sit around and force a double lynch," he's owning up to that and trying to convince us that it was a pro-town decision. That just strikes me as more of a scum play than town. Like he sat around all night rehearsing an explanation for scummy behavior he knew he'd be called out on.

I'm warming to a Munch lynch. And if Eevee is his partner, that explains why he's waiting for Eevee to weigh in here.

I'm saying I made a pro town decision.  I'm saying Galz argument is that I made an anti-town decision and I disagree with that.  I made a neutral to town decision (noted by the fact that I claim that both situations leave us in the we-have-to-lynch-scum-first scenario). Not-anti-town is not the same as pro-town.

Its funny because I actually feel like Galzria's argument is very rehearsed.

Question for Joth though:  If I had this lined up, why would I have been posting my thoughts very stream of consciousness in thread?  (In before "because I also expected someone to say that my posts looked rehearsed so I tried to build myself an excuse while posting")

[TheMunch]

I think the tactic TheMunch is taking to arguing this is scummy. He's not saying "I didn't sit around and force a double lynch," he's owning up to that and trying to convince us that it was a pro-town decision. That just strikes me as more of a scum play than town. Like he sat around all night rehearsing an explanation for scummy behavior he knew he'd be called out on.

I'm warming to a Munch lynch. And if Eevee is his partner, that explains why he's waiting for Eevee to weigh in here.

Point 2:  I think I'm right but I want you all to convince yourselves.  I've made my case why I think the two situations have neutral effect on town but I really do what people to think through it themselves.  You dont have to believe me, just think through the situation yourself and come to your own conclusion.

[TheMunch]

With 12 hrs to go, I REALLY want to hear from Robz and Eevee instead of constantly arguing with my scum reads.

[Robz888]

Okay I am here now.

I would HAPPILY hammer Munch, who is for some reason arguing numbers, and is absolutely scum alongside Eevee.

[Eevee]

Yes, Munch is right there, not Galzria. However, it doesn't make him much if any any less scummy to me! Robz hammering him I'm absolutely fine with, although joth looks plenty scummy too for not acknowledging galz is town. I still so don't understand these town reads on joth.

On emotional level, it feels like joth-munch, they both feel really scummy especially today. Munch looks like he realized he was right about that one thing so he used explaining that as his defense even though it doesn't make him town, not at all. I disagree with Galzria in that robz's mystical town read points to joth being town. I agree it's a factor, but I'd be hesitant of putting that much weight into it.

I still absolutely stand behind treating galz as obvtown. All the evidence still points at Robz being scum. Robz is the only of the three that feels sincere to me, I was hoping I'd get a townread on Munch or joth but no no. Still, the evidence against Robz is there and is more real than any scum read could be. I'd still prefer Munch or joth hammering Robz, but I understand why you cant go for that galz.

[jotheonah]

Eevee, please explain why Galz is obvtown. No one has done that satisfactorily.

[Robz888]

I think Joth's concern that me and Galz are the scumteam a la M-II is further confirmation of his towniness, that's such an understandable, albeit highly flawed, concern for him to have.

Eevee asks how I can be so certain of Joth, when to him, Joth is just doing standard posts that scum!Joth could duplicate. I say no. Joth--no offense, Joth--is not as good at this game as Eevee or Galz. This isn't surprising; he doesn't play quite as constantly. So when I see him falling into the same meta, making arguments that are a little unfounded but not totally unreasonable, mixed with his particular brand of humor, I know I've found town Joth.

[Galzria]

Driving, will post in a few.

[Eevee]

I think Robz not even considering the possibility of me being town cements him as obvscum again. Galzria, he has played with me as much as you have, even more. Do you think him being that damn certain I'm scum is reasonable at all? He hasn't even commented on my case AT ALL. I'd really prefer to go robz with munch being the hammer.

[jotheonah]

My track record as scum IS pretty abysmal. I don't just get caught, I get caught early and for stupid things. I'm just a bad liar. You can throw resistance in there too, actually.

[jotheonah]

I think Robz not even considering the possibility of me being town cements him as obvscum again. Galzria, he has played with me as much as you have, even more. Do you think him being that damn certain I'm scum is reasonable at all? He hasn't even commented on my case AT ALL. I'd really prefer to go robz with munch being the hammer.

Not answering my question FTW. WHY IS GALZ TOWN?

[Robz888]

Eevee, I have to pick apart some of this.

Robz:
I retract my earlier certainty of Robz being scum. He could be town, but that would require him very unfortunately been wrong about THREE major reads.
-His dead-certainty on me being scum. I don't feel I can adequately analyze whether that would be a reasonable stance for town Robz or not. It's the least damning of these to me either way.
-His certainty on joth being town is mind-boggling to me. He says Joth screams of townjoth and couldn't possibly be able to play like this as scum. I disagree SO SO much. Joth is VERY hard to meta-read for me. Robz might be better than I am at reading Joth, sure. But all the posts he pulled up saying "this is town joth, guys", they were just STANDARD joth to me. I had NO clue he was scum in pokemafia, I had to check my vision when I saw his flip because at the time I didn't know there were two scum teams. NOTHING Joth has done warrants a read that strong. He has been his jokey self, but why the hell would he not be if he was scum!? Joth is NOT stupid! He couldn't make the same jokes as scum JUST as easily. None of his positions are particularly towny. Robz's reads is 100% based on him doing stuff he could do as scum JUST as well, Robz is just arguing he is SURE Joth wouldn't be able to. I say that statement is simply untrue.
-Robz not realizing mcmc was town. Like, this was when I first thought "wow, no way Robz is not scum". I encourage you to read back to the "posting my phone number to the forums so some random creeps from finland and canada can text me to come help town if need be" - incident. No-one.does.that.as.scum, no way. No way, never. Well, now that I type this out I guess Insomniac didn't realize he had to be town either, which is aggravating. But I trust Robz should have realized his own brother was being sincere there.

So, conclusion, for Robz to be town he has to have made three TERRIBLE reads. Possible, sure. Unlikely, I think so. These were his 3 biggest reads, for him to be town he would have had to be 100% wrong on each and every one of them.
Galzria pointed out mcmc's whole wagon was town, other than Robz. This is sickening to me because seriously how did you not see it!?!, but okay. That lynch COULD have been 100% town driven... but again, it's pretty unlikely. These are stacking up.

Okay, I explained the Joth thing again.

The bolded part is I think what of the all-time worst arguments anyone has made in a mafia game. I'm not even kidding. Are you serious, Eevee? THAT IS NOT NECESSARILY TOWN BEHAVIOR WHATSOEVER. For one thing, my brother is a really friendly and innocent young man. He is far more social and positive than I am, IRL. This is so within the realm of his regular behavior, period.

But... I do not understand the leap that this gives him town points AT ALL. Like I just don't. I'll give you my phone number, my address, my LinkedIn profile, whatever. Town points are that easy, now? Dumb, dumb, dumb. My brother cares about the game, and he's a caring person, and that in no way shape or form did or should have acquitted him.

That said, I was wrong about his alignment. But the fact that you think him doing that should have made me think he was town is ludicrous.

[Robz888]

I think Robz not even considering the possibility of me being town cements him as obvscum again. Galzria, he has played with me as much as you have, even more. Do you think him being that damn certain I'm scum is reasonable at all? He hasn't even commented on my case AT ALL. I'd really prefer to go robz with munch being the hammer.

Eevee, you're not as scummy as Munch, but it's POE for me. I know Galzria and Joth to be town, what else can I do?

[Robz888]

Here's another part of your argument that is just wrong.

Oh, one other point I've been wanting to post and now that pokemafia is over, I finally can. Lurking Robz is scum Robz. He has no shame in that regard. Here, he hasn't been straight up lurky, but not super active either. I think I have more posts than he does despite playing the entire game from my phone and town Robz usually leads these post counts. I would also argue his non-low post count is mitigated by the fact all his reads have been wrong (if he is town, he IS wrong about joth and me on top of being wrong about mcmc).

Here's the last available post count:

Post count
I hope this helps, sorry it includes the beginning stuff.

Robzz - 66
eevee - 41
galzia - 35
joth - 51
the munch - 33
cuzz - 21
mcmcsalot - 102

So no, I do have more posts than you, or any other still-living player.

[Robz888]

Lurky!Robz is scum!Robz, as you said. So I am now obvtown in your eyes, yes?

[Robz888]

Eevee, for me to be wrong about you, Jo would have to be scum. I really, really don't see that.

[Eevee]

To me joth has always been an enigma - someone I can't get a read off. I don't ever recall being sure about joth, by any definition.

Joth, the spat with insomniac. To be frank, Galzria got so upset for very little reason he was pretty much a dick to him. Then he repeatedly says he feels terrible and wants to be the hammerman just to get a less severe modkill for breaking the golden rule. I mean he could be going for the win very ruthlessly, but he has repeatedly said "if I was scum, it would make me a terrible person." and I tend to agree. Like mcmc put it, he simply cant swear he is town on the lives of their family because robz would know he has to be town or a terrible person to do that, which just breaks te game. Galzria being scum would mean he used extreme emotional blackmail to win this. I am sure he wouldn't, making future games enjoyable matters too much for him.

 Also, his play today has been classic town leader Galzria. I don't see a reason to reconsider this read. Robz is almost definite scum because of the evidence, you or Munch could both very well be his partner. What do you think about robz's town read on you?

[Robz888]

Eevee, I want you to address that your post count argument is factually wrong, and defender your phone number argument which I think is wrong.

[Galzria]

Can we get a CURRENT post count?

Even better, can we get one broken up by day? (I say "we", I mean "I")

[Robz888]

I can do it, but I have to run out for a few minutes. (I should be here all afternoon though, no worries.)

[Eevee]

Sorry joth, I'm getting there as you can see, I just type slow from phone.

I think Robz not even considering the possibility of me being town cements him as obvscum again. Galzria, he has played with me as much as you have, even more. Do you think him being that damn certain I'm scum is reasonable at all? He hasn't even commented on my case AT ALL. I'd really prefer to go robz with munch being the hammer.

Eevee, you're not as scummy as Munch, but it's POE for me. I know Galzria and Joth to be town, what else can I do?

Good answer, I absolutely still think you are scum but in that case your unreasonably strong town read on joth IS real and you indeed think this.

Trying to convince scum is useless but food for thought for Galzria: I think reading me is easier than reading joth or conversely, I think Joth's meta is easier to fake than mine. Robz says he got SUCH a strong and definite read on joth sometime day1 none of this new evidence even matters because nothing I do can make him change his mind about that. Sound like reasonable town Robz?

[Eevee]

Lurky!Robz is scum!Robz, as you said. So I am now obvtown in your eyes, yes?

Lol that's false logic mate.

I said Robz absolutely has no shame about lurking as scum and likes saying "scum Robz wouldn't want all this negative attention I must be town". That doesn't mean all scumrobzes lurk, not at all. Youve proven you have several scum styles up your sleeve. You were JUST scum with me and Insomniac on pokemafia where you lurked like crazy, hardly surprising you decided you couldnt pull it off now. Fwiw, I think your participation level here is pretty much a nulltell.


About mcmc, maybe I'm naive, maybe I read genuine emotion well. To me it was absolutely obvious his eagerness to help town was genuine. I think my strong town reads have a pretty good track record of actually flipping town, so I feel quite good about that read still.

[TheMunch]

I would gladly hammer someone else (cause me dying is game over).  If thats me hammering Robz I'll do it.  I am more suspicious of Galz but if you guys see a Munch-Anyone scum team cause, assuming that you guys are right about me dying, then I will gladly die to the venge.  I think thats the safest plan.  Since you guys are now very confident that I am scum, find who you think is my scumbuddy and I will hammer that person.

[Robz888]

Eevee, I think you are better at mimicking your town!meta than Jo is. I think this absolutely. You are a better and more experienced player. And actually, no, I think your meta IS easier to fake than Joth's.

[Eevee]

The level of devotedness and emotion mcmc showed when he was willing to bend over backwards to not lurk through the deadline (which scum like to do, but that's not even my point) is just something you should be able to get a read of, not joth posting his standard jokes and whatnots. What joth has been doing is WAY easier to replicate as scum than what mcmc did there was.

[Galzria]

Actually Eevee, Robz has improved his gameplay tremendously and is now the hardest to read of anybody. I long for the days when I was good at reading scum!Robz. But I digress. No - reading scum!Joth has always been a specialty of mine. Like he said, he's a bad liar. One of these days (maybe today?) He'll win out over me and I'll be absolutely thrilled for him (sad I lost, but very happy for Joth) because it will mean that he's improving as well - something we all strive for.

Until then however, I think scum!Joth is one of the most easily readable characters around. He HAS done things this game that make me think he might be scum. But he's done more that make me think town. I have to temper my "omgscumJoth" blinders with the fact that as town he's often very scummy - I've learned this. I've also learned that his scum meta =/= resemble his town meta in the slightest.

While I disagree with many of the examples Robz has listed, the fear of a Robz-Galz scum team is about as genuine as he can be. It was my first game in M-II, and I brutally abused the town-scum relationship to Joth's detriment.

As such, his continued suspicion of me - while wrong - will never be unfounded. The mod could NAME me an IC and Joth would still have his doubts. That's just the way things are.

With that said, right or wrong, Joth is the one player I'm taking completely off the table.

[Jorbles]

Vote Count 2.2:

Robz888 (0) -
Eevee (0) -
Galzria (0) -
jotheonah (0) -
TheMunch (0) -

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.  Day 2 ends on Wednesday, January 16 at 11:59 p.m. forum time.



Just letting you guys know that someone is monitoring the thread.

[TheMunch]

PS. If you guys find my scumbuddy for me to hammer and he is scum and I flip town, please please please stop treating Galz like an IC.

[Galzria]

Lurky!Robz is scum!Robz, as you said. So I am now obvtown in your eyes, yes?

Lol that's false logic mate.

I said Robz absolutely has no shame about lurking as scum and likes saying "scum Robz wouldn't want all this negative attention I must be town". That doesn't mean all scumrobzes lurk, not at all. Youve proven you have several scum styles up your sleeve. You were JUST scum with me and Insomniac on pokemafia where you lurked like crazy, hardly surprising you decided you couldnt pull it off now. Fwiw, I think your participation level here is pretty much a nulltell.


About mcmc, maybe I'm naive, maybe I read genuine emotion well. To me it was absolutely obvious his eagerness to help town was genuine. I think my strong town reads have a pretty good track record of actually flipping town, so I feel quite good about that read still.

Robz has the right of the argument you made here Eevee. What happened to "LALR" (Lynch All Lurking Robz's)?

[Eevee]

Okay, fine. I do not see it and frankly now fear a Galzria-Robz scum team as well (heh, not really), but I go to trust you. Then it doesn't matter which way we go, robz-munch IS the scum team. I'd start with robz, but if you insist on munch, it doesn't matter as long as I'm right about you and you are right about joth.

[TheMunch]

You guys put the votes on someone, I'll hammer.

[Galzria]

Okay, fine. I do not see it and frankly now fear a Galzria-Robz scum team as well (heh, not really), but I go to trust you. Then it doesn't matter which way we go, robz-munch IS the scum team. I'd start with robz, but if you insist on munch, it doesn't matter as long as I'm right about you and you are right about joth.

That's from your perspective. Not from mine. I still think you could be scum.

[Eevee]

Barring irl events, lurking robz is scum robz. Doesn't mean non-lurking robz couldn't be scum too? He has shown us he is very capable of being active as scum.

[Galzria]

You guys put the votes on someone, I'll hammer.

Not gonna happen like that (maybe?).

I'm still evaluating responses. Talking is good.

[TheMunch]

I will literally hammer anyone you guys tell me to.  I know your wrong about me, but then that leaves the 4 of you to choose from.  I hope you pick correctly from the remaining 4 players.  I really think my flip will be beneficial to town so at this point I WANT to get venge killed.

PPE: I'll talk if you want to talk, but I felt like I had the right on the Galz argument and that got me no where.  I think if I actually talk it will just be confirmation bias to most of you.  What needs to happen is I need to flip.  I can flip by getting venge killed.  I want that to happen.

[Eevee]

Munch not making any arguments but just repeating "fine I'll hammer" over and over again seems like an admission of guimt though.

@galz
Yes, that's just my perspective but it tremendously helps if I can take joth from the table, now I "know" the scum team in that if you are that sure about joth, I don't have to worry about taking reads or making a decision anymore.

[Galzria]

Yes, but Eevee,

Oh, one other point I've been wanting to post and now that pokemafia is over, I finally can. Lurking Robz is scum Robz. He has no shame in that regard. Here, he hasn't been straight up lurky, but not super active either. I think I have more posts than he does despite playing the entire game from my phone and town Robz usually leads these post counts.

Is still factually incorrect.

[Galzria]

I will literally hammer anyone you guys tell me to.  I know your wrong about me, but then that leaves the 4 of you to choose from.  I hope you pick correctly from the remaining 4 players.  I really think my flip will be beneficial to town so at this point I WANT to get venge killed.

PPE: I'll talk if you want to talk, but I felt like I had the right on the Galz argument and that got me no where.  I think if I actually talk it will just be confirmation bias to most of you.  What needs to happen is I need to flip.  I can flip by getting venge killed.  I want that to happen.

Settle down. I was the first one to admit that your logic was correct. It didn't "get you nowhere".

[TheMunch]

Munch not making any arguments but just repeating "fine I'll hammer" over and over again seems like an admission of guimt though.

@galz
Yes, that's just my perspective but it tremendously helps if I can take joth from the table, now I "know" the scum team in that if you are that sure about joth, I don't have to worry about taking reads or making a decision anymore.

I'm saying "fine... I'll hammer."  I'm coming to the realization that me hammering scum is very beneficial.  I want to die, just not lynched (see: we lose the game), and fortunately I can die without getting lynched via the venge kill.

PPE: It kind of did "get me nowheree".  I came back to Robz also thinking it proved that I was scum and Eevee, despite agreeing with me, still found me to be scum.

[TheMunch]

Wait, everyone thinks I'm scum... that doesn't strike any of you as strange?

[Galzria]

Eevee, would you be the hammer on Robz or Munch if I wanted to lynch either one of those two?

[Eevee]

Munch, being right in some argument doesn't make you town. Like, I'll admit I worded the stuff about Robz's post count being a tell badly, sorry. Retracted, I concur his level of activity here is not much of a tell in either direction.

What you should do is find evidence of some duo being scum or find evidence on you being town. I don't think you'd just resign like that if you were town. I feel you are not saying anything because you feel it wouldn't help but might just implicate your partner. Reminds me of myself in my last day of RMM 3.

[Galzria]

Wait, everyone thinks I'm scum... that doesn't strike any of you as strange?

I've noted it, yes. But I fully expect scum to state openly a willingness to vote their partner here. The final question is if they will. Back in blitz-something I stated over and over that I would lynch SFS. Push come to shove I couldn't actually pull the trigger because we were both scum.

That said, yes, I have indeed noted it.

[Eevee]

Eevee, would you be the hammer on Robz or Munch if I wanted to lynch either one of those two?

Reluctantly, yeah. I'd rather have it be Robz in that case, the ultimate reason I'm "sure" about Munch is that you are sure about joth.


Well, actually. If our only hope (that I don't by any means consider slim!!) is that Robz-Munch is the team because you are so sure about joth he is off the table, it doesn't matter who hammers whom! So yes, I would. On either.

[Galzria]

Joth!

Get in here. Work is for chumps. I want your opinions.

[Robz888]

UPDATED POST COUNT, does not include pre-game

Robz888: 106
Eevee: 63
Galzria: 88
Joth: 59
Munch: 64

The thing is Eevee, it's not just that you phrased it badly what my post count means, you were actually factually wrong about my post count. You said that you thought you were posting more than me. As you can see, that is very untrue. But now that you've brought it to our attention, you are underposting in this game, compared to usual.

[Galzria]

I feel like just throwing your names all in random.org and having it decide. 50% we lynch right! Then I can pair that name up manually with most likely partner!

.....

[TheMunch]

I dont really want to say much because I feel at this point most of you will find it to be an admission of guilt or evidence against me no matter what I say.  I have stated publicly what I think the duo is.  Its Galz-Joth.  Joth I've had a read on since the start of the game (which all the evidence that I have for being scum is the same evidence that you use to think he's town with your meta arguments).  I have felt uneasy since Galz' outburst got him a ton of town cred (when both mcmc and I were trying to not let it effect our reads).  Then, Galz came out the gates with a rehearsed case that was just bad.  It just all feels so set up with the fact that he asked questions and made comments yesterday and now today is using them to build a case.  And I feel set up with Galz' "Lets force people to choose scum from this bunch even though I secretly know both are town; people will listen to me cause everyone thinks I'm town and our IC has made me IC".

I just feel defeated.  I'd love to chat after the game with you about it but I really feel like I lost this game for town.  The only way I know to rectify it is to get myself vengekilled so you can see my flip and actually catch the other scum.  That is my only hope.

[TheMunch]

I feel like just throwing your names all in random.org and having it decide. 50% we lynch right! Then I can pair that name up manually with most likely partner!

.....

This is terrible.

[Robz888]

Although, to be honest, everyone in this game has showed an above average level of dedication to it. Everybody showed up right before deadline! That was nice.

[Galzria]

I feel like just throwing your names all in random.org and having it decide. 50% we lynch right! Then I can pair that name up manually with most likely partner!

.....

This is terrible.

Derp. No kidding.

It's called sarcasm. I never had any intent to actually do so (although maybe I will for laughs and then provide the results when the game is over to see who's smarter, me or a random generator).

[Eevee]

UPDATED POST COUNT, does not include pre-game

Robz888: 106
Eevee: 63
Galzria: 88
Joth: 59
Munch: 64

The thing is Eevee, it's not just that you phrased it badly what my post count means, you were actually factually wrong about my post count. You said that you thought you were posting more than me. As you can see, that is very untrue. But now that you've brought it to our attention, you are underposting in this game, compared to usual.

Oh, that's surprising! Yes, I was definitely wrong there. Absolutely.

It wasn't a huge part about my case though. well, it wasn't even a part of the case, just additional evidence I typed out because I thought it was there but was wrong.

The thing is, the three terrible reads is 65% of the case. I still that still holds, so very unfortunately unlikely if townrobz really got all three of his major reads completely wrong. The mcmc lynch thing was 30%, that I still think absolutely holds true. I was wrong about the post count argument which I attribute 5% to, but just like Munch being right over Galzria doesn't make him town, this doesn't make you town. I got the "lurkerrobz" feeling from some point in the game and never let go off that impression, that was wrong of me. The actual case I still stand behind for sure!

[Robz888]

Okay sure. But Insomniac had three bad reads too, and Insomniac is manifestly a better town player than I am. So it can certainly happen!

[Galzria]

My thoughts to date:

Robz has an unyielding town read on Joth. This brings three scenarios to mind for me:

Town!Robz, Town!Joth
Scum!Robz, Town!Joth
Scum!Robz, Scum!Joth

I dropped Town!Robz-Scum!Joth because if Joth so completely fooled both Robz and myself then he absolutely deserves to win this.

2/3 of the above are scum!Robz, which with absolutely no other input is a better lynch percentage than randomly selecting.

But if I went with that, who hammers?

Joth:
- Pros: Clears up the possible Robz-Joth "too obvious to be" buddy relationship scum team. Both those players know that I feel 1 of 2 in a relationship is scum, not both, so I wouldn't put this past them to try.
- Cons: If Joth comes up town, I'm no closer to solving Eevee/Munch. Munch hasn't done much actual scumhunting today, but the Eevee/Robz spat feels like it might be forced. Joth doesn't help me here.

Eevee:
- Pros: Leaves me with a clear path to follow, as I think Joth is town. If Eevee flips town, lynch Munch.
- Cons: Eevee and Robz' spat today, while feeling slightly forced, still leaves me feeling this is an unlikely duo, so I would be better served pairing a Robz lynch with someone else.

Munch:
- Pros: Leaves me with a clear path to follow, as I think Joth is town. If Munch flips town, lynch Eevee.
- Cons: Munch's "let me hammer" is the same thing I did yesterday, albeit for slightly different reasons. Still, his feelings that he'll be a distraction read genuine to me, and I understand where he's coming from in wanting to remove his name from the picture.

The advantage to a Robz lynch is I don't have to be right about Joth -today-. Robz is already removing him.

Damn. On the one hand I want to think Joth/Munch are both town... But that leaves this Robz/Eevee spat to contend with.

Damn damn damn.

[Galzria]

But I think I've decided.

I want to lynch Robz, and I want Eevee to hammer.

I'm going to wait to cast my vote until I hear at least once more from each player.

[Eevee]

Not my first choice as explained, but just tell me when to vote.

[Robz888]

Yes, I thought so. Didn't expect to convince you. Let's hurry this up so I can yell at... I'm actually not even sure, because I understand why you think it's me. I guess so I can yell at myself.

[Eevee]

Yes, I thought so. Didn't expect to convince you. Let's hurry this up so I can yell at... I'm actually not even sure, because I understand why you think it's me. I guess so I can yell at myself.

If you are town, which I doubt, you WERE completely wrong in your three major reads. Now, that happens, sur. But yelling to anyone but yourself after that would be unfair I think. 

[Galzria]

Munch, if you're scum with Eevee, then you deserve MVP here. Your "let me hammer to remove myself" struck to close to home for how I felt earlier this game. I applaud you for that if so.

If you're scum with Joth, then you get a close second. But Joth fooling both Robz and I take the cake for MVP.

If you're not scum, then hopefully we'll be winning soon.

[Robz888]

Munch, if you're scum with Eevee, then you deserve MVP here. Your "let me hammer to remove myself" struck to close to home for how I felt earlier this game. I applaud you for that if so.

If you're scum with Joth, then you get a close second. But Joth fooling both Robz and I take the cake for MVP.

If you're not scum, then hopefully we'll be winning soon.

I manifestly disagree that he should be congratulated for saying obvious things that scum has to say to spare themselves. Forgive me if I don't insult your intelligence with obvious tactics like this.

ANd Munch/Eevee IS the scum team, Galz. So...

[Robz888]

Yes, I thought so. Didn't expect to convince you. Let's hurry this up so I can yell at... I'm actually not even sure, because I understand why you think it's me. I guess so I can yell at myself.

If you are town, which I doubt, you WERE completely wrong in your three major reads. Now, that happens, sur. But yelling to anyone but yourself after that would be unfair I think. 

You are correct. And me giving bad town reads = me being scum? Really? Since when??

[Galzria]

Waiting to hear from Munch and Joth.

Vote order will go:

Me, Robz, Eevee.

I'm not going to play WIFOM games if scum!Robz self hammered (to protect scum!buddy Eevee, or to frame town!Eevee? We wouldn't know!)

[Eevee]

I don't get the praise to Munch at all either.

[Robz888]

I don't get the praise to Munch at all either.

Thank you!

[Robz888]

Munch basically sat around for two days not doing much, not fighting very hard or against anyone, and low and behold, he's scum. While misguided townies got everyone else killed. Please don't act like this is impossible; this USUALLY happens in games where I live past Night 0.

[Eevee]

So Robz, you want a pass on always pushing for townies and defending scum because "it's not scummy I'm just always wrong"?

Being the only townie in the mcmc wagon was really bad luck if you are town, you can tell at that.

[Eevee]

I 100% agree with robz's sentiment on Munch.

[Galzria]

Munch, if you're scum with Eevee, then you deserve MVP here. Your "let me hammer to remove myself" struck to close to home for how I felt earlier this game. I applaud you for that if so.

If you're scum with Joth, then you get a close second. But Joth fooling both Robz and I take the cake for MVP.

If you're not scum, then hopefully we'll be winning soon.

I manifestly disagree that he should be congratulated for saying obvious things that scum has to say to spare themselves. Forgive me if I don't insult your intelligence with obvious tactics like this.

ANd Munch/Eevee IS the scum team, Galz. So...

Saying "I will hammer whoever you ask me to" is vastly different than "Let me hammer. I don't care who, but let me hammer. If I die to a Vengekill, at least I won't be a distraction anymore".

The first, scum must say. The second reads very genuine and townie to me. It's a difference in tone and perception. If he's scum and he pulled the second off, he deserves credit and I offer it to him.

[Robz888]

So Robz, you want a pass on always pushing for townies and defending scum because "it's not scummy I'm just always wrong"?

Being the only townie in the mcmc wagon was really bad luck if you are town, you can tell at that.

Well, I mean, we lose if we lynch me, so yes I am asking for a pass. I know that's not satisfying, which is why I'm not so upset that I'm about to be killed. Yes, it's my fault, I made the effort to scumhunt and per usual I was bad at it. WHat angers me is Munch being congratulated for doing nothing. And then he offers to hammer anyone and that's some town move? I'll hammer anyone, Galz, if it spares me. Sheesh.

[Robz888]

Oh I get it, it's his "woe is me" routine. Okay, yeah, I don't see that as so townie.

[Eevee]

Oh I get it, it's his "woe is me" routine. Okay, yeah, I don't see that as so townie.

I agree and I'm a big sucker for those.

[Robz888]

I mean, like this is the only frustrating thing here for me now, Munch getting praised foe his brilliant play. Not doing anything means you don't have anything to be held accountable for later.

The reason I'm such a bad townie is that I always try to control the lynch, always always always, and I'm very often wrong. So there's a lot to hold me accountable for.

[TheMunch]

I'll be back in 1 hour.

[jotheonah]

Hi! I'm back.

I'm ok with Eevee hammers Robz. But if Robz flips town well have to decide Eevee/ munch still. If Robz flips scum, we should lynch munch. If this a bus from you, galz, well damn. Well done.

[Robz888]

Hi! I'm back.

I'm ok with Eevee hammers Robz. But if Robz flips town well have to decide Eevee/ munch still. If Robz flips scum, we should lynch munch. If this a bus from you, galz, well damn. Well done.

If* I flip town, it's game over.

*I will.

[jotheonah]

Oh, right. Well then. Galz are you really really sure Robz is scum?

[Galzria]

I mean, like this is the only frustrating thing here for me now, Munch getting praised foe his brilliant play. Not doing anything means you don't have anything to be held accountable for later.

The reason I'm such a bad townie is that I always try to control the lynch, always always always, and I'm very often wrong. So there's a lot to hold me accountable for.

But I don't blame you at all. For me, if we lose, I'm as much to blame if not more to blame than anyone here. I've also had a ton of bad reads this game and ultimately like Insomniac before me I'm stuck making the call.

After the flips yesterday I was torn between wanting to even play this day and wanting to come back and win it for Insomniac.

Ultimately on you it was a combination of the way you've been stating your cases and the way POE. It's the furthest I've ever felt from a slamdunk case, but I feel it's stronger than the cases on Munch/Eevee/Joth.

My gut has been wrong too many times to follow it staunchly now. I HATE that Munch was the only player on neither wagon. I HATE that he "predicted they would both be town" like he somehow knew ahead of their flips. I haven't liked his "defense" today either. Everything in my gut says he's scum. But it said the same of mcmc and look where that got me.

If he IS scum, then you or Eevee is his partner. Therefore to me one of you gets lynched, the other hammers. If it comes to me/Joth/Munch, I'll lynch Munch. I'm hoping it won't.

But I don't see a compelling reason to think Eevee is more likely a Munch partner than you are, Robz. And I see so many worlds where you're scum. And man, you're freaking crafty as hell as scum. In M-VIII you had me hating myself for lynching you... Until the mod came and you flipped scum.

So I don't know. I'll listen to Joth and follow his advice here, but right now it's Robz lynch Eevee hammer.

[Eevee]

Goshdangit I don't get this obvtown status Joth has acquired. No offsense!

[Galzria]

Hi! I'm back.

I'm ok with Eevee hammers Robz. But if Robz flips town well have to decide Eevee/ munch still. If Robz flips scum, we should lynch munch. If this a bus from you, galz, well damn. Well done.

If Robz flips town it's game over. We don't get a second lynch and even if we did it wouldn't matter.

[Galzria]

Goshdangit I don't get this obvtown status Joth has acquired. No offsense!

There are two scenarios that have scum!Joth.

One is that Robz is town and Joth fooled us both against all odds and all previous meta we have on him - and we've caught him every game he's been scum to date.

The second is that Robz is scum. I'm including this as a possibility.

[Robz888]

It was game over when both Cuzz and Mcmc flipped town. The real scum knew exactly who was going to take the heat for that.

[Eevee]

I still have faith in Robz flipping scum, it wouldn't exactly be the first time he has done this. He has continued doing this after his team was mathematically eliminated, even after he got hammered!

[jotheonah]

I mean, like this is the only frustrating thing here for me now, Munch getting praised foe his brilliant play. Not doing anything means you don't have anything to be held accountable for later.

The reason I'm such a bad townie is that I always try to control the lynch, always always always, and I'm very often wrong. So there's a lot to hold me accountable for.

But I don't blame you at all. For me, if we lose, I'm as much to blame if not more to blame than anyone here. I've also had a ton of bad reads this game and ultimately like Insomniac before me I'm stuck making the call.

After the flips yesterday I was torn between wanting to even play this day and wanting to come back and win it for Insomniac.

Ultimately on you it was a combination of the way you've been stating your cases and the way POE. It's the furthest I've ever felt from a slamdunk case, but I feel it's stronger than the cases on Munch/Eevee/Joth.

My gut has been wrong too many times to follow it staunchly now. I HATE that Munch was the only player on neither wagon. I HATE that he "predicted they would both be town" like he somehow knew ahead of their flips. I haven't liked his "defense" today either. Everything in my gut says he's scum. But it said the same of mcmc and look where that got me.

How are those gut-reads though? They sound pretty evidence-based.

If he IS scum, then you or Eevee is his partner. Therefore to me one of you gets lynched, the other hammers. If it comes to me/Joth/Munch, I'll lynch Munch. I'm hoping it won't.

But I don't see a compelling reason to think Eevee is more likely a Munch partner than you are, Robz. And I see so many worlds where you're scum. And man, you're freaking crafty as hell as scum. In M-VIII you had me hating myself for lynching you... Until the mod came and you flipped scum.

So I don't know. I'll listen to Joth and follow his advice here, but right now it's Robz lynch Eevee hammer.

Robz is so good at fooling me. But I've also mislynched him more than once. I just cannot read that guy.

But The Munch has read low-level scummy to me all game, and has seemed scummy lately too.

Man, I hate this part of the game. AAaaaaahhhrgg.

[Galzria]

It was game over when both Cuzz and Mcmc flipped town. The real scum knew exactly who was going to take the heat for that.

Man, you're not even taking heat "for that". I haven't made a single argument against you over that. Yeah, I brought up the odds of mcmc being an entire town wagon but the same question applies for Cuzz which had two unknowns (Joth and Eevee). Joth I happen to think is town. If Munch ultimately is scum, then guess what? ONE of those wagons was all town!

It's not been a focal point of any argument though.

[Robz888]

It was game over when both Cuzz and Mcmc flipped town. The real scum knew exactly who was going to take the heat for that.

Man, you're not even taking heat "for that". I haven't made a single argument against you over that. Yeah, I brought up the odds of mcmc being an entire town wagon but the same question applies for Cuzz which had two unknowns (Joth and Eevee). Joth I happen to think is town. If Munch ultimately is scum, then guess what? ONE of those wagons was all town!

It's not been a focal point of any argument though.

I am indeed taking heat for that. Its why Eevee argues that I am scum.

[Galzria]

Joth, would you rather Eevee hammer Munch?

I agree there's scumminess there. I agree his "Let me hammer please" had an above average impact on me because it's how I felt earlier. If I discount that I feel he has to be scum.

But at the same time I feel like it's the easy answer and the easy answer is never right!

[Galzria]

It was game over when both Cuzz and Mcmc flipped town. The real scum knew exactly who was going to take the heat for that.

Man, you're not even taking heat "for that". I haven't made a single argument against you over that. Yeah, I brought up the odds of mcmc being an entire town wagon but the same question applies for Cuzz which had two unknowns (Joth and Eevee). Joth I happen to think is town. If Munch ultimately is scum, then guess what? ONE of those wagons was all town!

It's not been a focal point of any argument though.

I am indeed taking heat for that. Its why Eevee argues that I am scum.

I really don't care why Eevee thinks you're scum. If Joth is town then Eevee HAS to think you're scum. Listening to each of you go back and forth doesn't really help me, personally, decide.

What I care about are the questions I ask, and the answers I get. Eevee may be giving you heat over it, but if you get lynched it'll be because of me, and I have discounted that argument entirely.

[Robz888]

Okay.

[jotheonah]

Joth, would you rather Eevee hammer Munch?

I agree there's scumminess there. I agree his "Let me hammer please" had an above average impact on me because it's how I felt earlier. If I discount that I feel he has to be scum.

But at the same time I feel like it's the easy answer and the easy answer is never right!

I think I would like that better.

But is that just the effect of Robz buddying me?

(Also, why are you set on Eevee being the hammer? You're convinced that whichever one's scum, he's the partner? In that case, why not lynch Eevee?)

[Galzria]

Joth, would you rather Eevee hammer Munch?

I agree there's scumminess there. I agree his "Let me hammer please" had an above average impact on me because it's how I felt earlier. If I discount that I feel he has to be scum.

But at the same time I feel like it's the easy answer and the easy answer is never right!

I think I would like that better.

But is that just the effect of Robz buddying me?

(Also, why are you set on Eevee being the hammer? You're convinced that whichever one's scum, he's the partner? In that case, why not lynch Eevee?)

I'm not, Robz could hammer as well. I'm so conflicted. I know both so well and I often read both wrong. Here I feel like one (because I DO read you pretty well) is scum and possibly both.

If they're both scum then the lynch needs to fall on one or the other. If one is town and the other scum and Munch is indeed scum then whichever hammers doesn't matter.

Maybe Munch lynch Robz hammer is best?

If Robz flips town on a Vengekill I'll at least know his read on you was genuine. If Eevee dies I'll have to listen to Robz bemoan his bad read on you (no offense Robz) and figure out if it's genuine.

So Munch lynch Robz hammer? Man, I feel like I've come full circle here.

[Robz888]

So Munch lynch Robz hammer? Man, I feel like I've come full circle here.

I support this, obviously.

[Eevee]

So Munch lynch Robz hammer? Man, I feel like I've come full circle here.

I support this, obviously.

This is my preference #1.

[Galzria]

So Munch lynch Robz hammer? Man, I feel like I've come full circle here.

I support this, obviously.

You did when I proposed it in #797 as well. 100+ posts, and see where we end?

[jotheonah]

and again, the problem where everyone is ok with it.

But I wouldn't put it past Munch's partner to be bussing right now.

Although I guess it would have to be Eevee, in that case. Unless Robz's offer to hammer is insincere.

[Eevee]

I would absolutely expect scum to be ok with bussing at this point. They can't risk not to, in my opinion.

[Galzria]

and again, the problem where everyone is ok with it.

But I wouldn't put it past Munch's partner to be bussing right now.

Although I guess it would have to be Eevee, in that case. Unless Robz's offer to hammer is insincere.

Which is part of what led me to the Robz/Eevee combo I had.

It's infuriatingly difficult.

[Galzria]

I would absolutely expect scum to be ok with bussing at this point. They can't risk not to, in my opinion.

But wouldn't my unequivocal "I will not lynch Joth, so if we flip 1 scum 1 town I will lynch the odd man left" give them pause? They CAN'T bus or it's game over - because I'm serious, I won't lunch Joth.

[Robz888]

I would absolutely expect scum to be ok with bussing at this point. They can't risk not to, in my opinion.

Yes. No matter what is decided, some scum is going to have to lie until the end.

[Galzria]

Lynch* even. Sorry Joth, but you'de make a terrible lunch. I've NO interest in eating you.

...

Wow. *Ahem*. Moving on.

[Robz888]

I would absolutely expect scum to be ok with bussing at this point. They can't risk not to, in my opinion.

But wouldn't my unequivocal "I will not lynch Joth, so if we flip 1 scum 1 town I will lynch the odd man left" give them pause? They CAN'T bus or it's game over - because I'm serious, I won't lunch Joth.

I think they'll see it the way I see it: Obviously untrue. You can and do change your mind, perhaps more often than you realize.

[Eevee]

I would absolutely expect scum to be ok with bussing at this point. They can't risk not to, in my opinion.

But wouldn't my unequivocal "I will not lynch Joth, so if we flip 1 scum 1 town I will lynch the odd man left" give them pause? They CAN'T bus or it's game over - because I'm serious, I won't lunch Joth.

Both Munch and Joth started the day with "why is Galz an IC".

[Eevee]

I would absolutely expect scum to be ok with bussing at this point. They can't risk not to, in my opinion.

But wouldn't my unequivocal "I will not lynch Joth, so if we flip 1 scum 1 town I will lynch the odd man left" give them pause? They CAN'T bus or it's game over - because I'm serious, I won't lunch Joth.

I think they'll see it the way I see it: Obviously untrue. You can and do change your mind, perhaps more often than you realize.

Agreed.

[Galzria]

I would absolutely expect scum to be ok with bussing at this point. They can't risk not to, in my opinion.

But wouldn't my unequivocal "I will not lynch Joth, so if we flip 1 scum 1 town I will lynch the odd man left" give them pause? They CAN'T bus or it's game over - because I'm serious, I won't lunch Joth.

Both Munch and Joth started the day with "why is Galz an IC".

Yep. And I take no issue with the question.

[jotheonah]

Ok, let's do it. Robz hammer Munch. I think it's our best bet. And if someone raises a stink as we go along, well so much the better.

[Eevee]

I would absolutely expect scum to be ok with bussing at this point. They can't risk not to, in my opinion.

But wouldn't my unequivocal "I will not lynch Joth, so if we flip 1 scum 1 town I will lynch the odd man left" give them pause? They CAN'T bus or it's game over - because I'm serious, I won't lunch Joth.

Both Munch and Joth started the day with "why is Galz an IC".

Yep. And I take no issue with the question.

Yeah, but it's not nice like everyone has been been praising this plan all day even though it means scum has no chance.

[Jorbles]

Vote Count 2.3:

Robz888 (0) -
Eevee (0) -
Galzria (0) -
jotheonah (0) -
TheMunch (0) -

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.  Day 2 ends on Wednesday, January 16 at 11:59 p.m. forum time.



"Captain, do all humans have this much trouble making a decision? The audience is restless."

"Dammit they'll wait. 9 hours isn't too much to ask."

"Wait, somethings happening."

[Eevee]

Don't we want our scummier players to vote first, except for Robz? Or rather, the guys who Galzria thinks could break the plan. So I go first, then Galz, then Robz, or something? Or does it matter?

[Galzria]

I would absolutely expect scum to be ok with bussing at this point. They can't risk not to, in my opinion.

But wouldn't my unequivocal "I will not lynch Joth, so if we flip 1 scum 1 town I will lynch the odd man left" give them pause? They CAN'T bus or it's game over - because I'm serious, I won't lunch Joth.

I think they'll see it the way I see it: Obviously untrue. You can and do change your mind, perhaps more often than you realize.

I disagree - or at least think you interpret differently than I intend. When I state something at the beginning of the day it's my base thoughts. It's where I'm stating from and building on. I use reactions, questions, and general chatter to attempt to refine and change my initial thoughts. I'll post as my feelings evolve.

Once I've reached a decision on any particular issue though, or locked something I'm place, that's not going to change. Not without overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Yes, I'm stubborn. I try not to be but it's honestly hereditary. My mother and my sister are the only two I know that can be more stubborn more frequently.

My feelings on Joth won't change. He's not getting lynched. For better or worse I'm placing him as town. If he's scum, we lose. Blame me. If your his partner then I applaud both of you. You had both insomniac and I fooled at day end yesterday.

That's a very real scenario, by the way - which was the other reason I wanted your lynch. But I've got to put my faith somewhere and so I do in Joth.

[jotheonah]

We should push every advantage. Let's let Galz set the order.

[Eevee]

I agree. I think we can go already, I can't think of anything I haven't said already.

[Galzria]

I go, then Eevee, then Robz.

Here's to hoping. Munch, if you're town, I'm sorry.

Vote: Munch

[Galzria]

Eevee now.

[Eevee]

Vote: Munch

[Robz888]

Vote: TheMunch

[Eevee]

Please scum don't slowroll us if you won!

[Galzria]

Eevee/Robz?

Robz/Joth?

[Eevee]

Robz/Joth is a real possibility to me. :/

But nah, I think Munch is scum and the game goes on!

[Galzria]

I feel sick already. I HATE this damn game sometimes.

[Eevee]

Whatever happens, I won't feel bad. I think I played day 2 very very well, to best of my abilities really.

[jotheonah]

Please scum don't slowroll us if you won!

Ok, it was me and Robz.

Galzria, I don't think you'll ever trust me again.

[Robz888]

I was absolutely going to self-hammer if I received 2 votes.

[jotheonah]

Why?

[ehunt]

Applause

[Eevee]

 

[Robz888]

Why?

Make Eevee or Munch or whoever look bad. No matter what Galz says, he WOULD have reconsidered you after my flip, Jo. Why not lave him the maximum number of other suspects?

[Jorbles]

Game over scum wins. It was joth and Robz.

[Insomniac]

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN

[Eevee]

I should have called this pair the minute Robz started calling joth a bad player though.

[jotheonah]

Why?

Make Eevee or Munch or whoever look bad. No matter what Galz says, he WOULD have reconsidered you after my flip, Jo. Why not lave him the maximum number of other suspects?

I do agree on that point. I was all ready to drive your bus off the cliff, but I didn't love my chances. That's why I took the risk of redirecting Galz back onto The Munch at the end. Which could have ended very badly.

[mcmcsalot]

So do i win? found mafia immediatly? was wrong about cuzz but thats reasonable with his posts.

[Galzria]

Please scum don't slowroll us if you won!

Ok, it was me and Robz.

Galzria, I don't think you'll ever trust me again.

Eh, it happens. It was always a real possibility, but one I didn't feel I could control. Props to you for reading town to me. Best I think I could've gotten was a Robz lynch, and I wasn't likely to pick you to hammer, so there it is.

I'm sad, but not really surprised. I knew there was scum in Robz/Eevee, and I did honestly think it was Robz - but beyond that I didn't know and eventually somewhere I was going to have to make a guess. Putting it on you was the safest thing I thought I could do.

I was wrong.

[jotheonah]

Game over scum wins. It was joth and Robz.

that's all the flavor we get?

[Robz888]

So do i win? found mafia immediatly? was wrong about cuzz but thats reasonable with his posts.

No you still lose 

You made me work really hard, though.

[Insomniac]

I might have reconsidered Robz, but I NEVER would have reconsidered Joth.

[mcmcsalot]

how was robz joth not obvi scum to everyone when i flipped town

[jotheonah]

Please scum don't slowroll us if you won!

Ok, it was me and Robz.

Galzria, I don't think you'll ever trust me again.

Eh, it happens. It was always a real possibility, but one I didn't feel I could control. Props to you for reading town to me. Best I think I could've gotten was a Robz lynch, and I wasn't likely to pick you to hammer, so there it is.

I'm sad, but not really surprised. I knew there was scum in Robz/Eevee, and I did honestly think it was Robz - but beyond that I didn't know and eventually somewhere I was going to have to make a guess. Putting it on you was the safest thing I thought I could do.

I was wrong.

I mean, the "I'm a bad liar as scum" defense was going to work a maximum of once. Now it has.

But I don't blame you for buying it.

I have to applaud Robz for his way-too-obvious defense of me, which I would never in a million years have had the guts to try.

[Eevee]

I think your townread on Joth was unreasonable, but I can't really fault you for it. Robz played very well in the end to redirect it to Munch.

[mcmcsalot]

So do i win? found mafia immediatly? was wrong about cuzz but thats reasonable with his posts.

No you still lose 

You made me work really hard, though.

haha i know I lose silly, but I'm glad I know i can read you suuuuuuuper easy, and it makes me happy you were mafia and not a terrible brother lol

[Jorbles]

Game over scum wins. It was joth and Robz.

that's all the flavor we get?

Ash will write some. (I honestly have very little grasp on the flavour of this game. You're on a spaceship right?)

QTs:
Mod: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/sxPHERUsjnC7n
Speccy: http://www.quicktopic.com/49/H/UgCXpjRnYadqC
Scum: http://www.quicktopic.com/49/H/GuEKd7bMrnXX

[Robz888]

One tactic we leveraged is that we knew, explicitly, that when someone reads another as town, Galz looks for scum buddying town. So I chose to buddy my scumbuddy here, which did work. It made Robz/Joth the least likely pairing to Galz.

[Galzria]

I was absolutely going to self-hammer if I received 2 votes.

No you wouldn't. If you were the lynch I would've forced you to vote as number two, otherwise fully admit guilt. If you refused to do that I would've had one person place a vote on you, then waited until deadline to drop a second.

[jotheonah]

mcmc, the sad lesson of mafia is that picking the scum team is only half of winning. Getting other people to listen to you is the other half.

The happy ending is your performance here will probably make people more likely to listen to you in the future. You played VERY well and your reads had me scared often!

[Insomniac]

I still thought it was Eevee/Munch though

The predictions from the speccy QT
Insom -    Eevee Munch
Shraeye - Robz Eevee
MCMC - Robz Joth
Jimm - Munch Joth

[Galzria]

One tactic we leveraged is that we knew, explicitly, that when someone reads another as town, Galz looks for scum buddying town. So I chose to buddy my scumbuddy here, which did work. It made Robz/Joth the least likely pairing to Galz.

I knew fully this was quite possible. I even put it in a post somewhere as consideration for a Robz lynch, Joth hammer.

[Robz888]

I was absolutely going to self-hammer if I received 2 votes.

No you wouldn't. If you were the lynch I would've forced you to vote as number two, otherwise fully admit guilt. If you refused to do that I would've had one person place a vote on you, then waited until deadline to drop a second.

But if I got to deadline with 2 votes, no vengekill, which was the point.

[Robz888]

One tactic we leveraged is that we knew, explicitly, that when someone reads another as town, Galz looks for scum buddying town. So I chose to buddy my scumbuddy here, which did work. It made Robz/Joth the least likely pairing to Galz.

I knew fully this was quite possible. I even put it in a post somewhere as consideration for a Robz lynch, Joth hammer.

Absolutely. You had an impossible decision in front of you. I don't think it was hard to build a case against Munch at all, by the end.

[Eevee]

Townies always 2nd guess themselves to death in these situations. Should just let the IC decide! ( )

[Robz888]

We did consider killing Galz instead of Ins, but we worried that would freak Ins out into adopting some better reads.

[jotheonah]

I believe this is a flawless victory, and I survived the game, which makes this my best game ever on several metrics. But I would still give Robz the MVP over me, here. Or, heck, mcmc has some claim to it. Who am I kidding, I wanna be MVP.

[mcmcsalot]

mcmc, the sad lesson of mafia is that picking the scum team is only half of winning. Getting other people to listen to you is the other half.

The happy ending is your performance here will probably make people more likely to listen to you in the future. You played VERY well and your reads had me scared often!

my town cred D1 went to my head, that along with noone listening to me when robz defense of you was sooooooooooo scummy put me over the edge, i understand my screw the ic post was terrible but I shall learn and improve

[Jorbles]

I was absolutely going to self-hammer if I received 2 votes.

No you wouldn't. If you were the lynch I would've forced you to vote as number two, otherwise fully admit guilt. If you refused to do that I would've had one person place a vote on you, then waited until deadline to drop a second.

But why would a town player self vote at lylo? That's horrible play. He would have refused to vote for himself at all and then he would've hammered.

[Insomniac]

We did consider killing Galz instead of Ins, but we worried that would freak Ins out into adopting some better reads.

I would have 180'd my reads

[jotheonah]

mcmc, the sad lesson of mafia is that picking the scum team is only half of winning. Getting other people to listen to you is the other half.

The happy ending is your performance here will probably make people more likely to listen to you in the future. You played VERY well and your reads had me scared often!

my town cred D1 went to my head, that along with noone listening to me when robz defense of you was sooooooooooo scummy put me over the edge, i understand my screw the ic post was terrible but I shall learn and improve

you have the makings of a really really good player, so I have no doubt you shall.

Actually, I should have said this sooner, good game everyone. Very fun and well-played.

[mcmcsalot]

I pm'd ash a lynch order super early into D1, had people listend we would have won.

[Insomniac]

We did consider killing Galz instead of Ins, but we worried that would freak Ins out into adopting some better reads.

I would have 180'd my reads

To elaborate on this, I wouldn't expect a scum team with munch to nk galz over me. I would expect a team like Robz/Joth to try it.

[Eevee]

Yeah, thanks for all the players and the mods. The ending reminded me of several earlier blitz games!

[mcmcsalot]

agreed, amazing game guys yesterday was suuuper fun, I couldn't leave the thread. Lets be honest I've followed just as closely after I died.

[Insomniac]

Also, EVERYONE GO SIGN UP FOR ZMXI! YOU'LL REGRET MISSING IT /shameless plug

[Robz888]

I'm fine with Joth for MVP. I think we both played very strong games, but my buddying tactic wouldn't have worked unless he was able to perfectly channel his town self.

[TheMunch]

Wait.  Seriously.   You guys killed me when I was teaching?!  Sigh....

I should have been around.  So much I wanted to say.  I actually figured it out while I was rereading.  Galz, you had it right.  It wasn't a "fine I'll do what ever".  It was "Please god make me flip so you guys dont make a terrible decision.  If you guys had me hammer Robz, it would have been gg.

[Galzria]

Also, EVERYONE GO SIGN UP FOR ZMXI! YOU'LL REGRET MISSING IT /shameless plug

I'd love to, but man, I need a break. Both days were so freaking stressful.

I tried my best to avenge you though. Ahh well.

[TheMunch]

Yeah I cant play another Blitz, although I like it much more than regular.

I definitely lost this game for town.  LVP TheMunch.

[Eevee]

I guess I'd nominate Joth but it's close. Which is more impressive, the fact people "knew" Robz was scum but he still got a townie lynched or the fact that Joth fooled both our IC's like that? To make the decision even harder, Robz had to absorb some suspicion to make Galz and Ins consider Joth towny, so I don't know. Well played both!

Mcmc is an EXCELLENT addition to our mafia roster by the way. Really like playing with him. 

[Eevee]

Yeah I cant play another Blitz, although I like it much more than regular.

I definitely lost this game for town.  LVP TheMunch.

No you didn't, no no no.

[Insomniac]

Wait.  Seriously.   You guys killed me when I was teaching?!  Sigh....

I should have been around.  So much I wanted to say.  I actually figured it out while I was rereading.  Galz, you had it right.  It wasn't a "fine I'll do what ever".  It was "Please god make me flip so you guys dont make a terrible decision.  If you guys had me hammer Robz, it would have been gg.

Nah Galz would have lynched Eevee

Also, EVERYONE GO SIGN UP FOR ZMXI! YOU'LL REGRET MISSING IT /shameless plug

I'd love to, but man, I need a break. Both days were so freaking stressful.

I tried my best to avenge you though. Ahh well.

No regrets I would have done the same in your position (unless they killed you) and hey it doesn't start until it gets at least 9 and 5 days anyways.

[jotheonah]

We did consider killing Galz instead of Ins, but we worried that would freak Ins out into adopting some better reads.

I would have 180'd my reads

To elaborate on this, I wouldn't expect a scum team with munch to nk galz over me. I would expect a team like Robz/Joth to try it.

Exactly what I said in the QT. Robz said killing Galz would be "fancy play syndrome" LOL.

[Galzria]

Wait.  Seriously.   You guys killed me when I was teaching?!  Sigh....

I should have been around.  So much I wanted to say.  I actually figured it out while I was rereading.  Galz, you had it right.  It wasn't a "fine I'll do what ever".  It was "Please god make me flip so you guys dont make a terrible decision.  If you guys had me hammer Robz, it would have been gg.

I know. I read the tone, got the correct impression, pulled you off the table entirely, and then Joth made me feel like the emotional impact of your statement wasn't enough to overcome my reads themselves.

It's my fault for being convinced. I wish at the very least we had lynched Robz first because your statement, it's tone, and it's perception really did make me think "Munch has got to be town here..."

[Insomniac]

Yeah I cant play another Blitz, although I like it much more than regular.

I definitely lost this game for town.  LVP TheMunch.

Nonsense. You had Galz thinking you were town at one point (thats half the battle) and I was like NOOOOOOO in the QT

[TheMunch]

I feel like I ultimately got lynched for exactly the same reason as mcmc, I just couldn't for the life of me figure out who were actually pushing it.  Towards the end, the joth/robz scum team was so obvious!!!  MVP: Finishing the game before I got back!

PPE: You should have waited for me to get back, especially when I said I would be back at 3.  We could have had a nice chat about how I figured out you were town.

[Insomniac]

I feel like I ultimately got lynched for exactly the same reason as mcmc, I just couldn't for the life of me figure out who were actually pushing it.  Towards the end, the joth/robz scum team was so obvious!!!  MVP: Finishing the game before I got back!

PPE: You should have waited for me to get back, especially when I said I would be back at 3.  We could have had a nice chat about how I figured out you were town.

Anyways I think if you like blitz you should keep playin em you are a good player although I admit to having a scum bias on you.

[Galzria]

Yeah I cant play another Blitz, although I like it much more than regular.

I definitely lost this game for town.  LVP TheMunch.

Absolutely wasn't your fault. You were in a hell of a corner and I even made the right read to start with. Then without you saying anything at all I flipped it and lynched you. This one's on me.

[Insomniac]

Yeah I cant play another Blitz, although I like it much more than regular.

I definitely lost this game for town.  LVP TheMunch.

Absolutely wasn't your fault. You were in a hell of a corner and I even made the right read to start with. Then without you saying anything at all I flipped it and lynched you. This one's on me.

Well and me, you inherited my bad reads.

[TheMunch]

I really think that me hammering someone was the best idea.  I needed to flip in a way that we didn't lose the game.  You guys NEEDED to know I was town.  I stand by me lynching scum was 100% an avenue to success.

[TheMunch]

I feel like I ultimately got lynched for exactly the same reason as mcmc, I just couldn't for the life of me figure out who were actually pushing it.  Towards the end, the joth/robz scum team was so obvious!!!  MVP: Finishing the game before I got back!

PPE: You should have waited for me to get back, especially when I said I would be back at 3.  We could have had a nice chat about how I figured out you were town.

Anyways I think if you like blitz you should keep playin em you are a good player although I admit to having a scum bias on you.

I thought our arguments in Casino would actually lead you the other way.

[mcmcsalot]

yea blitz is definetly my favorit, partially because the less people is a whole lot easier for me to wrap my brain around.

[mcmcsalot]

I thought for a second galz would have munch hammer robz and then hopefully make the connection to joth.

[TheMunch]

yea blitz is definetly my favorit, partially because the less people is a whole lot easier for me to wrap my brain around.

I'm SOOOO glad I was right with you mcmc.  I said it end of D1 but I was really terrified by how much I was agreeing with you.  I tied my opinion too much to yours and it really just ended up look like buddying.

[Insomniac]

I feel like I ultimately got lynched for exactly the same reason as mcmc, I just couldn't for the life of me figure out who were actually pushing it.  Towards the end, the joth/robz scum team was so obvious!!!  MVP: Finishing the game before I got back!

PPE: You should have waited for me to get back, especially when I said I would be back at 3.  We could have had a nice chat about how I figured out you were town.

Anyways I think if you like blitz you should keep playin em you are a good player although I admit to having a scum bias on you.

I thought our arguments in Casino would actually lead you the other way.

No I was right in casino.

Also your argument on day 2 about number of people was wrong. If we had only lynched one person at the end of day 1 you force whoever the lynchee is to self vote, if they do not they are scum and you deadline them out.

[Robz888]

I feel like I ultimately got lynched for exactly the same reason as mcmc, I just couldn't for the life of me figure out who were actually pushing it.  Towards the end, the joth/robz scum team was so obvious!!!  MVP: Finishing the game before I got back!

PPE: You should have waited for me to get back, especially when I said I would be back at 3.  We could have had a nice chat about how I figured out you were town.

Yeah, I couldn't keep this up for much longer. I was soooo relieved when we executed on the Munch lynch quickly.

[TheMunch]

I thought for a second galz would have munch hammer robz and then hopefully make the connection to joth.

That should have happened!  Ugh, good job scum team for pushing it while I couldn't defend myself.  Dirty, but good.

[Insomniac]

BTW Robz congrats on doing an MXII. Hyper active scum.

[jotheonah]

Believe it or not, Munch, that wasn't a conscious choice. Galz gave me a big opening to turn him around away from RObz and I took it (even though I thought it might be a trap). Once I had him back on Munch and everyone had chimed in that they were OK with it, there wasn't anything for it but to nudge it along. The fact that you had gone V/LA didn't even occur to me.

[Insomniac]

(And obviously congrats jo for replicating your town meta so well)

[jotheonah]

(And obviously congrats jo for replicating your town meta so well)

Thanks! I thought invoking MII was a nice touch!

[jotheonah]

ok, I seriously have work to do. but this was great fun. Thanks for twisting my arm into playing, ash.

[Robz888]

BTW Robz congrats on doing an MXII. Hyper active scum.

Thank you. I had to give it a try. I think the timing of the wrapup of Pokemafia probably helped me, with you and Eevee being my scumbuddies, and me being revealed as lurking scum there.

[TheMunch]

Also I was thinking this morning while I was getting read to leave, it was a TERRIBLE idea to talk about the scum hammering thing early on.  Scum is ONLY scared if they are hammering other scum so it helps us catch people that way but really all it does is make town terrified NOT to hammer for fear of looking really bad.

[Insomniac]

ok, I seriously have work to do. but this was great fun. Thanks for twisting my arm into playing, ash.

Twist twist go play XI

[jotheonah]

ok, I seriously have work to do. but this was great fun. Thanks for twisting my arm into playing, ash.

Twist twist go play XI

No blitz is the worst for my work productivity. THE WORST.

[TheMunch]

ok, I seriously have work to do. but this was great fun. Thanks for twisting my arm into playing, ash.

Twist twist go play XI

Is it a normal setup?

[Insomniac]

ok, I seriously have work to do. but this was great fun. Thanks for twisting my arm into playing, ash.

Twist twist go play XI

Is it a normal setup?

What's a normal setup? I mean there is something that hasn't been in a blitz game to date, and two completely new PR's that have been seen by a forum game yet.

[TheMunch]

Hmm.  Maybe if you need another let me know.

@Galz:  Thinking back I wasn't actually trying to sway you with an emotional appeal like you did D1.  I mean, at the time I thought you were conf!scum.  I thought all of that emotion was totally contrived.  I really did think you were a manipulative bastard for most of the game!  But yeah not an emotional ploy.  I really did think that the best way for town to win was for me to die.  Obv if I got lynched we lost (but what scum WOULDN'T say that... Even Robz said it RIGHT AFTER he called you out for being swayed by that argument) so I needed to be flipped via venge kill.  Town needed to know I was town to make the right choices.

Also a lot of people, myself included, need to reevaluate their scumtells...

[jotheonah]

Galz, I did NOT actually think you were a manipulative bastard, but I was damned if I was going to let the town have a second IC if I could help it.

[jotheonah]

Also, if you read the scum QT, you;ll see Robz and I were both legitimately scared of losing D2 once we thought about who we were up against. It was by no means a slam dunk.

[Insomniac]

"Also Insom calling jo town. Jo PM'ed me about it, is convinced Insom will hate him forever."

False I do not hate you Jo I respect your solid play

[TheMunch]

I am sad that I called Joth but had literally 0 evidence for it.  I was telling the truth 100% that all the posts that made me question Joth and develop scum reads on him were the EXACT SAME that everyone used to say, "oh yeah, thats town!joth".  Meta arguments are terrible.  I for one will try to never use them again and call out anyone who does!

[Ozle]

Haha, town got played!

[jotheonah]

The thing is, TheMunch, I don't know if you've seen all the other times I tried and failed to mimic my town meta. Switch, for instance.

[TheMunch]

The thing is, TheMunch, I don't know if you've seen all the other times I tried and failed to mimic my town meta. Switch, for instance.

I only figured you out AFTER you fake claimed, FWIW.  Literally I dont think I had a scum read on you.  Then I hammered you.  Fun game.

[jotheonah]

WOrst fakeclaim. IIRC, I claimed to have investigated someone who was not even playing at that time.

[Insomniac]

WOrst fakeclaim. IIRC, I claimed to have investigated someone who was not even playing at that time.

You claimed doc

[TheMunch]

Shraeye is right about me in the QT.  I am very slow to change my reads.  But I do regret not being more vocal day 1.  I was right after all.  But I hate how being right about anything is twisted into being a scum trait nowadays.  Like yes, if I was scum, I can always guarantee that I am right about my buddy and who town is.  But I think the level of conspiracy theory elaborate scheme posts needs to get toned way down.  Shraeye can tell you, I'm pretty sure every one of my conspiracy theories I've ever had has been wrong.  I'm glad mcmc wasn't scum for that very reason; it helps me down the path of: conspiracy theories are bad, simple explanations are much much better.

[Insomniac]

(and to have docced Volt night 1 who subbed in for grujah day 2)

[TheMunch]

WOrst fakeclaim. IIRC, I claimed to have investigated someone who was not even playing at that time.

You claimed doc

Yeah and I was the doc hehehe.

[Insomniac]

An aside. At the beginning of day 1 I asked how people felt about Eevee's post with the intent of looking for a certain answer I expected to come from scum. Two people answered the way I expected scum to, Galzria and.......Joth. I persecuted Galz while leaving Joth completely alone.

[Galzria]

An aside. At the beginning of day 1 I asked how people felt about Eevee's post with the intent of looking for a certain answer I expected to come from scum. Two people answered the way I expected scum to, Galzria and.......Joth. I persecuted Galz while leaving Joth completely alone.

:Sadface:

I never should've abandoned my instant scum read on him either.

[Galzria]

See? Even through my my crazies I could see the truth.

Here's something actually useful though. I won't be a complete Dick to the rest of town:

Joth is my #1 scum read. It was (I think) post #151 that he gave his read on Eevee and parrot'ed me almost word for word.

He then made a future post about how scum would "think" that just reaked of "My buddies are lurking, but no way scum would do that. Let's all think how scum would think here!" - It was absolutely a classic scum redirect post.

[jotheonah]

to be fair, my buddy wasn't lurking at all, so I wasn't doing exactly what you said I was doing.

[ashersky]

"Commander Ozle, shall we follow through with the promise of destroying Earth if the town failed?"

"..."

"Commander Ozle?"  Ah, forget it.  I'm sure the network will want to do this again anyway.  Not like we've found humans anywhere else.

The captain of the alien ship flipped a switch and the surviving town members were transported back to Earth, memories wiped...again.

Congrats to Robz888 and Jotheonah, who played a phenomenal game.  Thanks to everyone for playing my decidedly difficult game, and for pointing out the broken bits instead of just using them.

MVP: Jo

I read over the endgame there, and saw Robz save his hide somehow, but realized it was thanks to Jo swooping in.  And the way Jo was not suspected by anyone was just fantastic.  Robz obviously helped build that up.  Great team work, totally.

Slap on the back: Insomniac.  I am going on the record now with this: rolling the IC in Blitz games is the most difficult role we have (so far) on f.ds mafia.  The pressure is intense, and the price we pay for being wrong is especially high.  I think most of us push ourselves too hard, too.  Insom has had to do this twice, as well.  It is just really hard.

I do think this set-up had a lot of potential.  4 mods didn't catch the vote all break, for some reason.  As you saw in the mod QT, we didn't actually have a fix for the tie--we really didn't think you could pull it off.  I mean, we had a fix, but didn't want to use them.  I think the thought of having it out there was part of the mental game.

I look forward to taking a break from modding Blitz games.  I may be back with one in the future, but want to watch Insom's next creation, which is awesome (I have an inside look), and see what others come up with.  I do think small numbers and set-ups that generally will end by D2 are best for Blitz, and would suggest we keep it that way.

[Jimmmmm]

Well done scum. Everyone else, next time I'm in bed and planning to come back 3 hours before deadline, please give me a chance to wake up and plead my case.

[Eevee]

I do think small numbers and set-ups that generally will end by D2 are best for Blitz, and would suggest we keep it that way.

+1

I'm still looking forward to rolling the IC in one of these games and seeing how it feels. I agree it's the hardest and most intense role we've used here.

[Insomniac]

@Ash if you count Masons/Best Friends I've been an IC more than twice

ZMX - IC
ZMIX - Best Friend
ZMVII - Mason
ZMV - IC


If you only count IC then yes twice, at least Best Friend felt a lot like it though since me and Robz had nothing else outside of the ability to confirm each other.

[shraeye]

It's awesome.  I would roll IC every day if I could.

[Insomniac]

It's awesome.  I would roll IC every day if I could.

ITS AWFUL AND YOU ARE FULL OF LIES

[Insomniac]

THE IC ICE CREAM HAMMERS: SHRAEYE

take that in your vanilla scoop!

[TheMunch]

And the way Jo was not suspected by anyone was just fantastic.

...Cough...

[Jimmmmm]

For the record, I thought this was pretty scummy:

So, conflicting. On the other hand I feel like trying to feel it out and being careful with my votes given it's a new setup. On the other hand, no games never get anywhere unless people actually commit to voting for the people they find scummy, so eh. But, the first half of day 1 should run pretty close to how it normally would, except no "lock" situation will ever be reached which never was an issue in blitz in the first place.

I would like EVERYONE to comment on this post and how it reflects on Eevee.

It gives me a slightly scummy vibe, outside of Eevee's meta. It has the stink of IIoA.

But it could so very easily be town Eevee, I don't place much store.

[Eevee]

Sigh, I agree Jimm, I agree..

[Ozle]

"Commander Ozle, shall we follow through with the promise of destroying Earth if the town failed?"

"..."

"Commander Ozle?"  Ah, forget it.  I'm sure the network will want to do this again anyway.  Not like we've found humans anywhere else.

The captain of the alien ship flipped a switch and the surviving town members were transported back to Earth, memories wiped...again.

Congrats to Robz888 and Jotheonah, who played a phenomenal game.  Thanks to everyone for playing my decidedly difficult game, and for pointing out the broken bits instead of just using them.

MVP: Jo

I read over the endgame there, and saw Robz save his hide somehow, but realized it was thanks to Jo swooping in.  And the way Jo was not suspected by anyone was just fantastic.  Robz obviously helped build that up.  Great team work, totally.

Slap on the back: Insomniac.  I am going on the record now with this: rolling the IC in Blitz games is the most difficult role we have (so far) on f.ds mafia.  The pressure is intense, and the price we pay for being wrong is especially high.  I think most of us push ourselves too hard, too.  Insom has had to do this twice, as well.  It is just really hard.

I do think this set-up had a lot of potential.  4 mods didn't catch the vote all break, for some reason.  As you saw in the mod QT, we didn't actually have a fix for the tie--we really didn't think you could pull it off.  I mean, we had a fix, but didn't want to use them.  I think the thought of having it out there was part of the mental game.

I look forward to taking a break from modding Blitz games.  I may be back with one in the future, but want to watch Insom's next creation, which is awesome (I have an inside look), and see what others come up with.  I do think small numbers and set-ups that generally will end by D2 are best for Blitz, and would suggest we keep it that way.

OZLE SAY KILL PUNY HUMANS AFTER LAUGHING AT THEIR FOOLISH WAYS!!

EAT THE ONE CALLED INSOMNIAX FIRST, HE LOOKS TASTY!

And then possibly a nice white wine and a little fish?

[mcmcsalot]

And the way Jo was not suspected by anyone was just fantastic.

...Cough...

...Cough...Cough...

[Insomniac]

"Commander Ozle, shall we follow through with the promise of destroying Earth if the town failed?"

"..."

"Commander Ozle?"  Ah, forget it.  I'm sure the network will want to do this again anyway.  Not like we've found humans anywhere else.

The captain of the alien ship flipped a switch and the surviving town members were transported back to Earth, memories wiped...again.

Congrats to Robz888 and Jotheonah, who played a phenomenal game.  Thanks to everyone for playing my decidedly difficult game, and for pointing out the broken bits instead of just using them.

MVP: Jo

I read over the endgame there, and saw Robz save his hide somehow, but realized it was thanks to Jo swooping in.  And the way Jo was not suspected by anyone was just fantastic.  Robz obviously helped build that up.  Great team work, totally.

Slap on the back: Insomniac.  I am going on the record now with this: rolling the IC in Blitz games is the most difficult role we have (so far) on f.ds mafia.  The pressure is intense, and the price we pay for being wrong is especially high.  I think most of us push ourselves too hard, too.  Insom has had to do this twice, as well.  It is just really hard.

I do think this set-up had a lot of potential.  4 mods didn't catch the vote all break, for some reason.  As you saw in the mod QT, we didn't actually have a fix for the tie--we really didn't think you could pull it off.  I mean, we had a fix, but didn't want to use them.  I think the thought of having it out there was part of the mental game.

I look forward to taking a break from modding Blitz games.  I may be back with one in the future, but want to watch Insom's next creation, which is awesome (I have an inside look), and see what others come up with.  I do think small numbers and set-ups that generally will end by D2 are best for Blitz, and would suggest we keep it that way.

OZLE SAY KILL PUNY HUMANS AFTER LAUGHING AT THEIR FOOLISH WAYS!!

EAT THE ONE CALLED INSOMNIAX FIRST, HE LOOKS TASTY!

And then possibly a nice white wine and a little fish?

Hey...Hey Ozle...GO SIGN UP FOR A BLITZ MAFIA!

[Ozle]

Haha, no chance!

[Ozle]

no way I could spend the amount of time you all spend on this in one go. I just about read a lot of this, but coming up with actual useful posts of my own to contribute wouldnt happen.

i'd just lurk and read and post the odd PoS post

[Insomniac]

no way I could spend the amount of time you all spend on this in one go. I just about read a lot of this, but coming up with actual useful posts of my own to contribute wouldnt happen.

i'd just lurk and read and post the odd PoS post

and then youd be mafia and lynched!

[Ozle]

Precisely!

I dont think I have ever been town...at least not in my heart anyway