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[soulnet]

"Would you sell out your life's work to someone that is going to do things you dislike with it? "
You seem to be one of the people suffer the misconception that Donald sold Dominion to Goko, he didnt, he sold rights to RGG, whose decision it was to use GOKO, not Donald's at all. Who knows what decision Donald will make when the rights contract comes up.


And if I am running a Company whose Job it is to make money, and someone comes along for one of my intellectual licences and offers me a big wedge of cash. Too Right I would sell.

I don't, this was clarified earlier on this thread so I sure have it in mind. I was talking about RGG. I don't think RGG is only about making money. So, I probably won't like your companies should you have one some day.

People who tell me that the company will lose sales because Iso is free and Goko is rubbish need to actually back that up with actual figures from somewhere rather than a gut feeling of people (which includes me) that have never been privy to such a situation before. Otherwise its a 'gut feeling' and my 'gut feeling' says different.

I wonder what the sales figures were of Dominion, before and after Isotropic got popular....

I also wonder about the figures. It was claimed Goko did make them money without providing any figures, and I was answering that, so I thought it was ok to answer without data also. At least is a balanced opposition.

[Ozle]

"Would you sell out your life's work to someone that is going to do things you dislike with it? "
You seem to be one of the people suffer the misconception that Donald sold Dominion to Goko, he didnt, he sold rights to RGG, whose decision it was to use GOKO, not Donald's at all. Who knows what decision Donald will make when the rights contract comes up.


And if I am running a Company whose Job it is to make money, and someone comes along for one of my intellectual licences and offers me a big wedge of cash. Too Right I would sell.

I don't, this was clarified earlier on this thread so I sure have it in mind. I was talking about RGG. I don't think RGG is only about making money. So, I probably won't like your companies should you have one some day.

Don't worry, I seriously doubt i'll ever run a company any day.

Also, if you don't partake of visiting companies whose sole purpose is making money......you must suffer a massive guilt trip every single time you go to the shops!

Also, again in defence of RGG, getting sucked in to GOKO's sales pitch, which was probably very slick and attention grabbing, isnt akin to the 'selling out' you are accusing them off

[gryph202]

I mean, time will tell if Goko is successful or not.  No skin off my nose.  Nobody's forcing me to spend money there, and chances are probably pretty good that I won't.

[soulnet]

Also, if you don't partake of visiting companies whose sole purpose is making money......you must suffer a massive guilt trip every single time you go to the shops!

Well, given that I have the need to go into some shops for food, clothing and other necessities, I don't have any guilt in doing so. I do try to avoid some companies when I have the alternatives.

Also, again in defence of RGG, getting sucked in to GOKO's sales pitch, which was probably very slick and attention grabbing, isnt akin to the 'selling out' you are accusing them off

I don't think they are "sell outs", because there is a whole story I don't know about (it is likely they did not know what Goko was going to be at the point when they sold the rights). I was just trying to show that "a wad of cash" is not the only thing to consider and since many people tend to think their life's work was not only a money-making machinery, it seemed like a good example. From Jay's interview in this forum, it seems that he does not see RGG as just a money-making machinery, so I would guess that decision making in RGG does consider other things as well.

[Watno]

Afaik a huge concern for jay was that the implementation would be cross-platform and that there were no pay-to-win possibilities in multiplayer. I'm pretty sure goko didn't tell him they would take ages to develop an implementation that is ok, and even longer to manure one that its actually good.

[Powerman]

Note: I am just freely expressing my personal opinions here. If you identify with the group I'm ranting on, please don't take it personally. It could be I'm just reading you wrong. I'd love to hear your points of view for us to discuss as a community.

I'm switching to Goko because I love playing Dominion. Of course I am annoyed by some aspects of Goko, such as the chat box and the avatars. Of course I think Isotropic Dominion is better. But the game of Dominion---the love of the game---is what will make me happily switch to Goko. I like Goko because there you can play Dominion, the game I get a lot of enjoyment out of. I do not understand why anyone would quit playing Dominion just because of Goko. Unless you're playing Dominion IRL, you're giving up playing the game I thought you enjoyed. I don't understand how people seem to love the website Isotropic more than the game Dominion. It should be about the game, not the website it's on.

Have you ever tried playing Dominion on BSW?  Do that, and tell me it still doesn't matter how it's implemented.  And that even has some cards from each expansion for free.

[Ozle]

Also, if you don't partake of visiting companies whose sole purpose is making money......you must suffer a massive guilt trip every single time you go to the shops!

Well, given that I have the need to go into some shops for food, clothing and other necessities, I don't have any guilt in doing so. I do try to avoid some companies when I have the alternatives.

Also, again in defence of RGG, getting sucked in to GOKO's sales pitch, which was probably very slick and attention grabbing, isnt akin to the 'selling out' you are accusing them off

I don't think they are "sell outs", because there is a whole story I don't know about (it is likely they did not know what Goko was going to be at the point when they sold the rights). I was just trying to show that "a wad of cash" is not the only thing to consider and since many people tend to think their life's work was not only a money-making machinery, it seemed like a good example. From Jay's interview in this forum, it seems that he does not see RGG as just a money-making machinery, so I would guess that decision making in RGG does consider other things as well.

Hang on....


RGG had a free version and a company to run.
Someone came along and said 'We can pay you money and produce a flashy online version that will generate more money'. You can then plough that money back into your company and do more of the things you love.

Now, you seem to be saying you wouldn't have taken that money based on some sort of ethical principles and imagined sales figures on your part.

Ethical principles you say Jay seems to have, which is excellent.

ERGO, if there was nothing unethical about it, then it was a monetary decision. Jay figured he could get more money from Goko than he could from Isotropic fan sales, and as he is the only one here that runs a sucessful game company, I reckon he knows what he is doing, and when the contract comes up for renewal, he will revisit and decide again.

Now, when I say I would have also taken Gokos offer if I was in his place, im apparently unethical and my imaginary company ill never own is to be avoided like some sort of Strip Mining Company destroying Native Villages!

[Ozle]

Afaik a huge concern for jay was that the implementation would be cross-platform and that there were no pay-to-win possibilities in multiplayer. I'm pretty sure goko didn't tell him they would take ages to develop an implementation that is ok, and even longer to manure one that its actually good.

Freudian slip or Autocorrect?

[gryph202]

Also, if you don't partake of visiting companies whose sole purpose is making money......you must suffer a massive guilt trip every single time you go to the shops!

Well, given that I have the need to go into some shops for food, clothing and other necessities, I don't have any guilt in doing so. I do try to avoid some companies when I have the alternatives.

Also, again in defence of RGG, getting sucked in to GOKO's sales pitch, which was probably very slick and attention grabbing, isnt akin to the 'selling out' you are accusing them off

I don't think they are "sell outs", because there is a whole story I don't know about (it is likely they did not know what Goko was going to be at the point when they sold the rights). I was just trying to show that "a wad of cash" is not the only thing to consider and since many people tend to think their life's work was not only a money-making machinery, it seemed like a good example. From Jay's interview in this forum, it seems that he does not see RGG as just a money-making machinery, so I would guess that decision making in RGG does consider other things as well.

Hang on....


RGG had a free version and a company to run.
Someone came along and said 'We can pay you money and produce a flashy online version that will generate more money'. You can then plough that money back into your company and do more of the things you love.

Now, you seem to be saying you wouldn't have taken that money based on some sort of ethical principles and imagined sales figures on your part.

Ethical principles you say Jay seems to have, which is excellent.

ERGO, if there was nothing unethical about it, then it was a monetary decision. Jay figured he could get more money from Goko than he could from Isotropic fan sales, and as he is the only one here that runs a sucessful game company, I reckon he knows what he is doing, and when the contract comes up for renewal, he will revisit and decide again.

Now, when I say I would have also taken Gokos offer if I was in his place, im apparently unethical and my imaginary company ill never own is to be avoided like some sort of Strip Mining Company destroying Native Villages!

It's all speculation.  I can't say what I'd have done in Jay's place because I don't know.  One thing I do know is that not everyone Goko tried to sell to took the bait.  Chris C. of Asmadi games, for one.

[Ozle]

Its precisely all speculation, thats exactly my point!

Nobody here knows what the deal was, so people saying that it will cost RGG money in the long have no idea what they are talking about

Money wise, the expert here is RGG.
No ones questioning RGGs ethics hopefully, so we are good on that front.

So the people saying it was a bad decision, clearly have not a leg to stand on. Just a useless 'gut feeling'


im just getting a little bit tired of people going round slating Donald or RGG for what seems to be a perfectly sound decision on thier parts!

[Watno]

Afaik a huge concern for jay was that the implementation would be cross-platform and that there were no pay-to-win possibilities in multiplayer. I'm pretty sure goko didn't tell him they would take ages to develop an implementation that is ok, and even longer to manure one that its actually good.

Freudian slip or Autocorrect?

Autocorrect, was supposed to be make.
I'd be kinda surprised if Jay was happy with how the Goko thing turned out.

[soulnet]

No ones questioning RGGs ethics hopefully, so we are good on that front.

The only one mentioning ethics here was you, I certainly did not say anthing about the ethics of hypothetical or actual decisions. I don't think is always unethical to put money above other things, and I'm sure it is not unethical for Jay to take Goko's offer. I'm just saying I don't think any amount of money is worth compromising the company and/or the game name with such a bad product. Of course, they may not have anticipated the product was going to be bad, but that does not change the outcome (notice that I am not trying to judge Jay or RGG in general, nor his habilities at decision making, just saying that this decision was bad because the outcome is bad, may have been unlucky or a mistake or a misjudgemente or any number of other things).

[Ozle]

No ones questioning RGGs ethics hopefully, so we are good on that front.

The only one mentioning ethics here was you, I certainly did not say anthing about the ethics of hypothetical or actual decisions. I don't think is always unethical to put money above other things, and I'm sure it is not unethical for Jay to take Goko's offer. I'm just saying I don't think any amount of money is worth compromising the company and/or the game name with such a bad product. Of course, they may not have anticipated the product was going to be bad, but that does not change the outcome (notice that I am not trying to judge Jay or RGG in general, nor his habilities at decision making, just saying that this decision was bad because the outcome is bad, may have been unlucky or a mistake or a misjudgemente or any number of other things).

Again, how do you know the outcome is bad?

Also

"Would you sell out your life's work to someone that is going to do things you dislike with it? "
You seem to be one of the people suffer the misconception that Donald sold Dominion to Goko, he didnt, he sold rights to RGG, whose decision it was to use GOKO, not Donald's at all. Who knows what decision Donald will make when the rights contract comes up.


And if I am running a Company whose Job it is to make money, and someone comes along for one of my intellectual licences and offers me a big wedge of cash. Too Right I would sell.

I don't, this was clarified earlier on this thread so I sure have it in mind. I was talking about RGG. I don't think RGG is only about making money. So, I probably won't like your companies should you have one some day.

If thats not questioning my ethics, you and I have a very different definition of the words ethics!

I said I would make the same decision as RGG and got told " I probably won't like your companies should you have one some day."
Im failing to see the difference....especially as when i mentioned it as ethics and you carried on the discussion,.


Anyways, I think I get the point, we both agree RGG is all fine and dandy, you think they have made a bad decisions. I am saying I dont think we know anything about the decision making process so I get fed up with people saying they have a bad decision.

no one is going to budge from that positions for some time, so lets move on?

[soulnet]

Again, how do you know the outcome is bad?

Well its bad from my point of view so its a bad decision from my point of view as well.

I said I would make the same decision as RGG and got told " I probably won't like your companies should you have one some day."

My problem with companies is basing decisions only on money, there are plenty of other things that could have happened here. Also, making one decision based solely on money is not the same as basing the entire companies politics on that, which was what I was discussing at the time of saying that.


In any case, there is big difference between not liking or not agreeing with something and considering it unethical (I guess unethical implies disliking and disagreeing, but not the other way around).

no one is going to budge from that positions for some time, so lets move on?

Yes, totally.

[Grujah]

The only reason why people believe that is because Goko is such a raw deal.

Evidence in other arenas suggests otherwise. People routinely blame Mark Rosewater for things he didn't do, because he is "the face of Magic."

Well, he was the lead designer of the set that spawned Dredge and Urza's Something, and you have to blame somebody for both