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[Dsell]

A lynch with two IC's is BETTER because I can know it's not scum driven.

Not scum driven, but very possibly scum finished. Which is why I'm telling people to be very suspicious of those who finish up my lynch.

Actually, scum is in an interesting position here. They know that both ICs are on the lynch, so that's a good excuse for getting on the lynch, EXCEPT that when I flip town, that means that the other 3 people on the lynch will be analyzed even more. So I'm not sure whether scum has incentive to get on my lynch or not, but my original point (be suspicious of those who finish my lynch) still stands.

I echo Galz when I say that I hope everything is alright for you, Insom.

Well, for me as a townie the situation is that there are two confirmed townies voting for you. Usually a wagon that large is concerning because it's likely scum driven, here I KNOW that's not the case. So stop trying to spin it around, what you say applies to every wagon ever.

No it doesn't! ICs put us in a weird situation here. In a normal game, the whole wagon is up for analysis. Here, the ICs obviously aren't up for analysis, meaning more pressure on the other people involved in a mislynch. But it also gives the perfect excuse. I don't know, point to the exact thing I said that can be applied to every wagon, rather than just bashing my argument.

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

Approximately 2.5 hours to deadline.

[Eevee]

Well, sounded to me like you were saying townies should think especially hard before joining this wagon. I say it's the opposite, this is actually a lot better for a townie than your standard wagon because you know it isn't driven by malicious intent. If you got to 3 votes without IC's participating, I'd be worried at how easy it seems to be to lynch you. Now I just know 2 IC's and Robz of unknown alignment agree with my concern about you.

[Dsell]

Well, sounded to me like you were saying townies should think especially hard before joining this wagon. I say it's the opposite, this is actually a lot better for a townie than your standard wagon because you know it isn't driven by malicious intent. If you got to 3 votes without IC's participating, I'd be worried at how easy it seems to be to lynch you. Now I just know 2 IC's and Robz of unknown alignment agree with my concern about you.

That would be true if it wasn't a mislynch, but it is. Obviously only myself and scum know that at this point, but I strongly urge the VTs to avoid my lynch because our ICs are wrong. And because no matter what, I am going to argue to my grave that whoever finishes up my lynch should come under heavy scrutiny.

That said, I advocate lynching Jimmm or Eevee over myself.

[Galzria]

Fascinating. Tell me if I'm crazy (from my perspective, of course):

Dsell (3): Ashersky, Destierro, Robz

Expressed willingness to vote Dsell: Eevee, Insomniac, Me.

No input yet: Jimmmmm

Now, I know that I'm town. So:

If Dsell is town, and Robz/Eevee/Insomniac are scum, then the entire scum team has expressed interest in lynching a single townie. This seems highly unusual to me. Scum generally spread their voices around a bit more. If Dsell were to flip town, those 3 would look much worse.

So I can't believe that scum!trio is accurate. This means that if Dsell is town, then one of those 3 is likely also town. That means Jimmmmm must be scum.

Is it fair to say that Town!Dsell = Scum!Jimmmmm (again, from my perspective), or am I missing something? Am I wrong to think that Robz/Eevee/Insomniac is unlikely based on their stated desire to lynch Dsell?

Of course, Dsell being scum is entirely different. Oddly, I find Jimmmmm more likely to be scum here as well, but wouldn't bet on it. It's just that if Dsell is scum, I don't see BOTH of his partners expressing interest in his lynch now.

[Dsell]

So Jimmmm is likely scum.

So vote Jimmmmmmm?

[Insomniac]

So I have to leave and won't be back before deadline, I prefer an Eevee lynch but it doesn't seem likely should I put my vote somewhere else?

[Dsell]

I prefer Jimmmmm but I'd vote Eevee too.

Insom, do you have a town read on Jimmm?

[Galzria]

So Jimmmm is likely scum.

So vote Jimmmmmmm?

Not yet, because I don't know if my thought process is crazy or not, and would rather hear from our IC's first.

[Destierro]

So Jimmmm is likely scum.

So vote Jimmmmmmm?

Not yet, because I don't know if my thought process is crazy or not, and would rather hear from our IC's first.

I dont think so. This seems more likely to have to conf town on a scum, and one non conf town. I think dsell is a good lynch

[Eevee]

I don't think your thought process is crazy. It's just that I obviously don't know (do suspect though!) that you are town, but I KNOW myself to be town. And it's a little hard not to be annoyed at Dsell threatening townies from voting for him.

[Dsell]

I don't think your thought process is crazy. It's just that I obviously don't know (do suspect though!) that you are town, but I KNOW myself to be town. And it's a little hard not to be annoyed at Dsell threatening townies from voting for him.

I know I'm being annoying, but I'm doing what's best for my team.

[Dsell]

So Jimmmm is likely scum.

So vote Jimmmmmmm?

Not yet, because I don't know if my thought process is crazy or not, and would rather hear from our IC's first.

I dont think so. This seems more likely to have to conf town on a scum, and one non conf town. I think dsell is a good lynch

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here? Is Galz' reasoning for thinking Jimmm is scum good reasoning or bad reasoning?

[Eevee]

I don't think your thought process is crazy. It's just that I obviously don't know (do suspect though!) that you are town, but I KNOW myself to be town. And it's a little hard not to be annoyed at Dsell threatening townies from voting for him.

I know I'm being annoying, but I'm doing what's best for my team.

So you are scum?

I mean in the grand scheme of things, town absolutely hates you using that argument because it makes you harder to lynch when you are scum. Which seems quite likely from my perspective (not super likely but you know, a good possibility).
Why is you saying that a towny thing? It is even better for your team if you are scum, you know...

[Insomniac]

I have no read on Jimmm probably slight scum

[Dsell]

I don't think your thought process is crazy. It's just that I obviously don't know (do suspect though!) that you are town, but I KNOW myself to be town. And it's a little hard not to be annoyed at Dsell threatening townies from voting for him.

I know I'm being annoying, but I'm doing what's best for my team.

So you are scum?

I mean in the grand scheme of things, town absolutely hates you using that argument because it makes you harder to lynch when you are scum. Which seems quite likely from my perspective (not super likely but you know, a good possibility).
Why is you saying that a towny thing? It is even better for your team if you are scum, you know...

Man, you just listed me in your top 3 town reads.

I'm quite certain at least one of my town read trio, Galzria Robz and Dsell, is scum. I'm leaning towards Dsell (then Robz, Galzria still he strongest town read).

Yeah you said I was most likely scum of those reads, but those reads came from somewhere.


But as for the grander scheme of things, you are probably right. But man, when I am at L-2 I don't care about the grand scheme of things, I care about not putting town at LYLO in THIS game. And if town does go to LYLO, I want to make sure town makes the best decision.

[Eevee]

Yes, but that's basically you saying "I threaten all the townies who are contemplating voting on me, because I am town!". Excuse us if we don't take your word for it. It's just such a null statement.

[Dsell]

Since I am town, I am threatening more scum than town.

But I don't even think it's such a crazy statement. It's just a reinforcement of what you would probably have done anyway. If you lynch me, I'll flip town, and then of course you'll heavily examine the non-ICs on my wagon. It's just a matter of trying to get townies not to make the mistake of joining this wagon and scaring scum away from it.

[Jimmmmm]

Re-read Dsell, and I didn't see anything that jumped out on me until his last few posts. There seems to be a sort of change in his tact, from seemingly genuine scumhunting to defensive wriggling to try to avoid being lynched. I mean, obviously that's what he's trying to do, and this could come from either a Town or scum perspective. Again, I don't particularly like anyone going on about how Towny they are.

So I think Dsell's more likely scum than Eevee, but I'm very far from convinced. I'm not sure the early wagon on him was entirely warranted, so FoS that I suppose.

[Dsell]

I realize that this is a bad argument to make, in general. Scum can do this to try to wriggle out of a lynch. I would be upset at me for making this argument. But here and now, if you lynch me the townies will soon know what I know and what scum knows too: that I'm town. And then town's at lylo. Our ICs are making a huge mistake and I hope the town will recognize that before making the mistake of lynching me.


I'm done defending myself. Everything I've said stands, I am the wrong lynch and advocate Jimmmm or Eevee instead. I'll probably reread them now to see if I can get anything more on them.

[Dsell]

So I think Dsell's more likely scum than Eevee, but I'm very far from convinced. I'm not sure the early wagon on him was entirely warranted, so FoS that I suppose.

The early wagon on me? The wagon that consisted of Eevee, Destierro, and Ashersky?

VOTE: JIMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

[Dsell]

For reference:

Vote Count 1.2

Dsell (3) - Eevee, Destierro, ashersky
Destierro (1) - Insomniac

Not voting: Dsell, Robz888, Galzria, Jimmmmm

With 8 alive, it takes 5 for a majority lynch to occur.  However, this is blitz mafia, and a plurality at the deadline WILL result in a lynch.  If a tie exists at the deadline, the Hidden Democracy mechanism will be implemented.

Deadline is tomorrow, Thursday, Dec. 19, at 8:00 pm forum time.

[Galzria]

Since I am town, I am threatening more scum than town.

But I don't even think it's such a crazy statement. It's just a reinforcement of what you would probably have done anyway. If you lynch me, I'll flip town, and then of course you'll heavily examine the non-ICs on my wagon. It's just a matter of trying to get townies not to make the mistake of joining this wagon and scaring scum away from it.

But it's a completely null argument. Eevee is correct. You can sit there and say "I'm town" until you're blue and it won't make it any more or less true. And saying "oooh, you'll be suspicious if you vote me" is ridiculous. What happens when.... I say it later when there's a wagon on me? Or Eevee does? Robz? Jimm? Insomniac?

It adds no value to the conversation. More than that though, rather than trying to give reads, analysis, etc, you're trying to win a battle through fear. This is much more a fallback option for scum, who have no real cases to make, than for town.

[Eevee]

So I think Dsell's more likely scum than Eevee, but I'm very far from convinced. I'm not sure the early wagon on him was entirely warranted, so FoS that I suppose.

The early wagon on me? The wagon that consisted of Eevee, Destierro, and Ashersky?

VOTE: JIMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Goooood catch Dsell! Jimmm, explain?

[SwitchedFromStarcraft]

90 minutes to deadline