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[Dsell]

Ashersky, Eevee doesn't have a history of buddying up to his top scum suspect.

That's my point.

Then why are you saying it's scummy that he wasn't buddying up to me?

My read on Eevee is still pretty neutral, tbh, but you have become by far my biggest scumread with this.

[ashersky]

Ash care to enlighten me why my voting for Destierro makes me scum, and why I'm different considering I was an IC in the last game

You're the lightest of my scum reads, honestly.  I think picking on the new guy for voting a scummy guy is scummy, is all.  You could be town, sure, but you aren't sounding like your Mason self from VII.  Your mason self was forceful, opinionated, and brash (which is normal town!insom).  You are quieter, more willing to go along with others, etc. this game.  That's not bad play, but it's not town!insom play as I have come to expect it.

I can afford to be more brash when I'm unlynchable

Or when you know you are town.  I think I do the same thing.

I still don't see why people say Mason = IC.  Masons are town-confirmed by one player.  ICs are town-confirmed by the mod.

[Galzria]

I'm kind of feeling the ashesky lynch now too.

Everyone, comments on ashersky in general and as a lynch target?

Don't like it. If mine eyes do not deceive me, then I see good reasons for Ash to play this way as town. Doesn't make him right, but it makes him less likely to be scum. Impossible? No, of course not. But I'll withhold that judgment until I have more information.

[Dsell]

Ash care to enlighten me why my voting for Destierro makes me scum, and why I'm different considering I was an IC in the last game

You're the lightest of my scum reads, honestly.  I think picking on the new guy for voting a scummy guy is scummy, is all.  You could be town, sure, but you aren't sounding like your Mason self from VII.  Your mason self was forceful, opinionated, and brash (which is normal town!insom).  You are quieter, more willing to go along with others, etc. this game.  That's not bad play, but it's not town!insom play as I have come to expect it.

I can afford to be more brash when I'm unlynchable

I echo this sentiment, I have played really differently when I've been IC. It's easy to be much less restricted, because you really just want to get everything off the table before you're taken out.

The start of this game has actually been a bit of an awakening to me; I can't be in IC mode (MXI) anymore.

[Insomniac]

Ash the masons can't be counterclaimed in this setup so claiming them makes you an IC. Similarly whenever you claim a role aligned to town in ANY GAME and aren't counterclaimed you are an IC to the town.

[Dsell]

Ash care to enlighten me why my voting for Destierro makes me scum, and why I'm different considering I was an IC in the last game

You're the lightest of my scum reads, honestly.  I think picking on the new guy for voting a scummy guy is scummy, is all.  You could be town, sure, but you aren't sounding like your Mason self from VII.  Your mason self was forceful, opinionated, and brash (which is normal town!insom).  You are quieter, more willing to go along with others, etc. this game.  That's not bad play, but it's not town!insom play as I have come to expect it.

I can afford to be more brash when I'm unlynchable

Or when you know you are town.  I think I do the same thing.

I still don't see why people say Mason = IC.  Masons are town-confirmed by one player.  ICs are town-confirmed by the mod.

If they are not counterclaimed, then they are the same as ICs. Of course, if scum fakeclaims mason, the real masons are obliged to counterclaim, because otherwise the rest of the town has no choice but to believe the fakeclaim.

[ashersky]

Ashersky, Eevee doesn't have a history of buddying up to his top scum suspect.

That's my point.

Then why are you saying it's scummy that he wasn't buddying up to me?

My read on Eevee is still pretty neutral, tbh, but you have become by far my biggest scumread with this.

To pull a Voltgloss: "Quote me saying that."

My point is that Eevee's interactions with you are unlike his normal interactions with players as town!Eevee.  Town!Eevee is a known buddier.  We all (except newbies) know this.  So we've come to expect it. 

Eevee + Dsell, as I've quoted, is a different type of interaction all together.  He refers to you without addressing you.  He mentions you as an aside in the middle of other paragraphs.  He's made sure that when you flip scum, he can point back to his early suspicions.  That's what I'm seeing.

I'm on the Dsell wagon because it's a wagon.  I'm good to lynch Eevee, too.

[ashersky]

Ash the masons can't be counterclaimed in this setup so claiming them makes you an IC. Similarly whenever you claim a role aligned to town in ANY GAME and aren't counterclaimed you are an IC to the town.

I've theoried out ways that scum could use a fake claim to their advantage in ZMVII.  I don't know if the scum team is bold enough to do it, though.

[Dsell]

I'm kind of feeling the ashesky lynch now too.

Everyone, comments on ashersky in general and as a lynch target?

Don't like it. If mine eyes do not deceive me, then I see good reasons for Ash to play this way as town. Doesn't make him right, but it makes him less likely to be scum. Impossible? No, of course not. But I'll withhold that judgment until I have more information.

What do you think of the fact that more than half of the players here have thought I'm scummy.

What do you think of Destierro jumping on me when that's the case?

What about Ashersky?

[Galzria]

Masons ARE IC's in this setup. There is no way for scum to claim Masonry without loosing.

[Dsell]

Masons ARE IC's in this setup. There is no way for scum to claim Masonry without loosing.

This is true only if at least one mason claims day 1.

[Galzria]

Masons ARE IC's in this setup. There is no way for scum to claim Masonry without loosing.

This is true only if at least one mason claims day 1.

Correct.

[ashersky]

Masons ARE IC's in this setup. There is no way for scum to claim Masonry without loosing.

This is true only if at least one mason claims day 1.

Correct.

Incorrect.  But hey, if the scum team hasn't figured out how to do it, good for us.

[Galzria]

Masons ARE IC's in this setup. There is no way for scum to claim Masonry without loosing.

This is true only if at least one mason claims day 1.

Correct.

Incorrect.  But hey, if the scum team hasn't figured out how to do it, good for us.

Ash, I read the Mod QT, and I've gone over this. They simply cannot break it.

If 1 scum claims first, then 1 Mason counters, with the threat of having his buddy back him up. He demands the same from the first claimant. If claimant #1 does not bring in backup, and #2 does, then you've caught your scum. If he DOES, then it's a 50/50 crap shoot D1, that ends in revealing TWO scum with the lynch flip, thus forcing a town win by D3.

If a mason claims first, scum counterclaims, and it works out exactly as above. Prove your second, or you're lying scum.

If a Mason claims, and scum waits until twilight to go "oh btw, I'm the real mason not him, but no time to prove partners", guess what? You've found scum for the next day because the real masons wouldn't wait to counterclaim.

It's a no win scenario for scum to try and game the mason claims. As long as one real mason claims today, all scum can do is out themselves.

[ashersky]

Masons ARE IC's in this setup. There is no way for scum to claim Masonry without loosing.

This is true only if at least one mason claims day 1.

Correct.

Incorrect.  But hey, if the scum team hasn't figured out how to do it, good for us.

Ash, I read the Mod QT, and I've gone over this. They simply cannot break it.

If 1 scum claims first, then 1 Mason counters, with the threat of having his buddy back him up. He demands the same from the first claimant. If claimant #1 does not bring in backup, and #2 does, then you've caught your scum. If he DOES, then it's a 50/50 crap shoot D1, that ends in revealing TWO scum with the lynch flip, thus forcing a town win by D3.

If a mason claims first, scum counterclaims, and it works out exactly as above. Prove your second, or you're lying scum.

If a Mason claims, and scum waits until twilight to go "oh btw, I'm the real mason not him, but no time to prove partners", guess what? You've found scum for the next day because the real masons wouldn't wait to counterclaim.

It's a no win scenario for scum to try and game the mason claims. As long as one real mason claims today, all scum can do is out themselves.

Galz, you are too towny for your own good.

I will not post my idea for how scum can successfully use a fake Mason claim to win, because I don't want them to do it.

[Eevee]

Ashersky, are you saying my friendly nature would stop me from pushing Dsell that "hard", so it mus be staged?

Others, do you think it's reasonable of him to assume I must be lying scum because I my suspicions of Dsell?

What I'm getting at is, obviously I still have scum reads and bad feelings too, even if I generally am better at taking town reads. Heck, this game is an example, I have a town read on Robz and mild ones on Galz and Insomniac. Also Dsell is becoming a town read now.

[Dsell]

Well. I certainly don't see any possible way for scum to do it, but Ashersky doesn't seem to want to budge on this point. And it's not super duper relevant anyway. Let's move on.

I still think Ashersky's reasons for voting me and for claiming that I'm scumbuddies with Eevee are very very thin and pretty scummy. Galzria disagrees but doesn't want to say why for some reason. I'd like to hear from others on this too, but I wish Galz could be more clear about this.

[Robz888]

Well. I certainly don't see any possible way for scum to do it, but Ashersky doesn't seem to want to budge on this point. And it's not super duper relevant anyway. Let's move on.

I still think Ashersky's reasons for voting me and for claiming that I'm scumbuddies with Eevee are very very thin and pretty scummy. Galzria disagrees but doesn't want to say why for some reason. I'd like to hear from others on this too, but I wish Galz could be more clear about this.

I also think they are thin, particularly concerning Eevee.

[ashersky]

Well. I certainly don't see any possible way for scum to do it, but Ashersky doesn't seem to want to budge on this point. And it's not super duper relevant anyway. Let's move on.

I still think Ashersky's reasons for voting me and for claiming that I'm scumbuddies with Eevee are very very thin and pretty scummy. Galzria disagrees but doesn't want to say why for some reason. I'd like to hear from others on this too, but I wish Galz could be more clear about this.

I also think they are thin, particularly concerning Eevee.

Feel free to try and lynch me, or possibly re-read Eevee with my comments in mind.

[Robz888]

Well. I certainly don't see any possible way for scum to do it, but Ashersky doesn't seem to want to budge on this point. And it's not super duper relevant anyway. Let's move on.

I still think Ashersky's reasons for voting me and for claiming that I'm scumbuddies with Eevee are very very thin and pretty scummy. Galzria disagrees but doesn't want to say why for some reason. I'd like to hear from others on this too, but I wish Galz could be more clear about this.

I also think they are thin, particularly concerning Eevee.

Feel free to try and lynch me, or possibly re-read Eevee with my comments in mind.

Ok.

[Eevee]

I'm kind of feeling the ashesky lynch now too.

Everyone, comments on ashersky in general and as a lynch target?

Still really interested in this.

(In general I myself think he is a great guy and an exceptionally superb moderator. In this game I think he seems really scummy, mostly because of his Eevee-Dsell theory, and I think getting an answer to the question above is extremely useful in the quest of hunting for scum / determining today's lynch.)

[ashersky]

I'm kind of feeling the ashesky lynch now too.

Everyone, comments on ashersky in general and as a lynch target?

Still really interested in this.

(In general I myself think he is a great guy and an exceptionally superb moderator. In this game I think he seems really scummy, mostly because of his Eevee-Dsell theory, and I think getting an answer to the question above is extremely useful in the quest of hunting for scum / determining today's lynch.)

Agree with the part in bold.

[ashersky]

Where is everyone?

[Eevee]

Where is everyone?

I'm here waiting for people to appear and answer my question. :/

[Eevee]

Robz should never leave the forums, everything just dies in here instantly.