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Author Topic: HP+X loses to Alchemists?!?  (Read 1350 times)

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zahlman

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HP+X loses to Alchemists?!?
« on: December 12, 2012, 07:14:04 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/12/game-20121212-160433-4d95e8a6.html

How does he manage to split the HPs after the Potion opening?

How does he manage to eventually put the stack together despite all the junk in his deck?

Is it just me or does he somehow magically have the Curse in hand to avoid Mountebank more consistently than I do, even though he's trying to topdeck Alchemists (which take up space in his initial handsize where the Curse can't be)?

Why aren't my later Cellar buys able to hold things together for me?
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eHalcyon

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Re: HP+X loses to Alchemists?!?
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2012, 07:33:23 pm »
+2

He manages to split HP because you didn't keep buying them, but greened early and started to choke.  On turns 8, 9 and 11 you bought Province instead of HP.

He manages to get through the junk in his deck because Hunting Party gets through it pretty easy, and the extra draw from Alchemist only helps.  HT helps too, because that junk becomes useful.

Also, Horse Traders is FANTASTIC for a Hunting Party stack.  You will almost certainly have junk to discard (Curses and VP), +$3 is nothing to scoff at, and the +Buy is great for when you have extra money but aren't ready to buy Provinces yet.  Consider turn 11 when delirious is able to buy HP AND Alchemist, or turn 22 where he buys Province + Duchy.  I would have taken HT over Moneylender.

As far as discarding Curses goes, he discarded a Curse 5 times and you did it twice.  Just bad luck.  But on the turns he did it, he usually hadn't returned Alchemists.  Just once he had returned a single Alchemist.  The other times he did not.

I don't think Cellar is so great, but I'm not sure.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 07:34:46 pm by eHalcyon »
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DG

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Re: HP+X loses to Alchemists?!?
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2012, 07:52:13 pm »
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Quote
Why aren't my later Cellar buys able to hold things together for me?

There just are not enough good cards in your deck. Your cellars have to work really hard to find your solitary gold and two silvers. When your deck is expanding like that you can no longer play the lean hunting party strategy with one of each card. A second gold is a good idea once you run into trouble.
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zahlman

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Re: HP+X loses to Alchemists?!?
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2012, 08:45:08 pm »
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He manages to split HP because you didn't keep buying them, but greened early and started to choke.  On turns 8, 9 and 11 you bought Province instead of HP.

It seems like every time I don't do that, I lose because of over-building to someone who just takes the points.
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KingsSkort

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Re: HP+X loses to Alchemists?!?
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2012, 11:59:56 am »
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Is it just me, or is the moneylender opening really bad here? You want to be playing mountebanks. After the first few turns, moneylender is worse than a curse.
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DG

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Re: HP+X loses to Alchemists?!?
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2012, 01:17:42 pm »
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Simulator suggest horse traders > moneylender > silver > smuggler as an opening.
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