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Author Topic: Interview with Donald X.  (Read 2127173 times)

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dz

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5450 on: January 06, 2023, 05:55:41 pm »
+1

Was it intentional for recent expansions/2E's to have multiple Cursing attacks in them? Or is it just a side effect of Witches being "easier" to design (compared to Militias/Knights/Spies/etc.)?

What have been your favorite card arts for the 2022 cards?

Were there concerns about First Mate chains being difficult to follow irl?

Why does Search trash itself? The ability seems hard to abuse, when supply piles only empty a few times per game (and usually at the very end).

Why did Insignia not get +Buy? I'm fine with the other no-plus-buy loots, but Insignia is the strangest one to me.

Why does Deliver not have "once a turn," if it's only useful to buy once?
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5451 on: January 07, 2023, 03:20:13 pm »
+5

Was it intentional for recent expansions/2E's to have multiple Cursing attacks in them? Or is it just a side effect of Witches being "easier" to design (compared to Militias/Knights/Spies/etc.)?
It's something I've decided to embrace, due to all the ways Witches are the best attacks. They're simpler, they work, they're the most fun. As you know, Militias are less fun and harder to vary the attack on; Knights are hated/loved; Spies are awful; and none-of-the-above Duration attacks are just hard to come by.

What have been your favorite card arts for the 2022 cards?
I'll single out Marcel-André Casasola Merkle for having lots of gorgeous art; for example Gondola.

Were there concerns about First Mate chains being difficult to follow irl?
Yes! And I mean they are. "Play a card, then do a thing" turns out to be crazy complex. But as you can see it didn't kill the card.

Why does Search trash itself? The ability seems hard to abuse, when supply piles only empty a few times per game (and usually at the very end).
It's actually for power level reasons. Specific games where it seemed like, this is too generous.

Why did Insignia not get +Buy? I'm fine with the other no-plus-buy loots, but Insignia is the strangest one to me.
If the set had never come out, possibly Insignia would have eventually gotten +Buy. Or changed. The Loots tried to be very different from each other, then gradually got closer together as part of balancing the pile. The idea was always to not make them all identical because what's the point to that, and Insignia is a casualty of that. But anyway. It started out with no +Buy because the Loots were all different cards and like only two of them had +Buy. Gradually the Loots changed; then at some point the set was published.

Why does Deliver not have "once a turn," if it's only useful to buy once?
It never came up. In general I don't see the beauty of adding text to remind you that you don't want to do something. If it had been a question - if people had been all "hey what's going on here" - then it could have gotten it to remove that confusion. There was no such confusion.
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MrHepp

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5452 on: January 09, 2023, 02:07:30 pm »
0

Was it intentional for recent expansions/2E's to have multiple Cursing attacks in them? Or is it just a side effect of Witches being "easier" to design (compared to Militias/Knights/Spies/etc.)?
It's something I've decided to embrace, due to all the ways Witches are the best attacks. They're simpler, they work, they're the most fun. As you know, Militias are less fun and harder to vary the attack on; Knights are hated/loved; Spies are awful; and none-of-the-above Duration attacks are just hard to come by.

Could copper attacks be an alternative, that is cards that deal out coppers instead of curses?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5453 on: January 09, 2023, 02:19:32 pm »
+1

Was it intentional for recent expansions/2E's to have multiple Cursing attacks in them? Or is it just a side effect of Witches being "easier" to design (compared to Militias/Knights/Spies/etc.)?
It's something I've decided to embrace, due to all the ways Witches are the best attacks. They're simpler, they work, they're the most fun. As you know, Militias are less fun and harder to vary the attack on; Knights are hated/loved; Spies are awful; and none-of-the-above Duration attacks are just hard to come by.

Could copper attacks be an alternative, that is cards that deal out coppers instead of curses?

He's talked about this before; it's bad because Coppers aren't limited in supply like Curses and Ruins are. A deck with 5-10 curses sucks, sure, but a deck with 40 coppers? You just don't get any interesting decisions the rest of the game.
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segura

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5454 on: January 09, 2023, 04:22:31 pm »
0

Well, conditional Copper junkers like Swindler, Jester and Mountebank are fine.
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5455 on: January 09, 2023, 05:49:39 pm »
0

Was it intentional for recent expansions/2E's to have multiple Cursing attacks in them? Or is it just a side effect of Witches being "easier" to design (compared to Militias/Knights/Spies/etc.)?
It's something I've decided to embrace, due to all the ways Witches are the best attacks. They're simpler, they work, they're the most fun. As you know, Militias are less fun and harder to vary the attack on; Knights are hated/loved; Spies are awful; and none-of-the-above Duration attacks are just hard to come by.

Could copper attacks be an alternative, that is cards that deal out coppers instead of curses?

He's talked about this before; it's bad because Coppers aren't limited in supply like Curses and Ruins are. A deck with 5-10 curses sucks, sure, but a deck with 40 coppers? You just don't get any interesting decisions the rest of the game.
Correct; I have tried "Each other player gains a Copper" a number of times, including in Plunder, and it has yet to survive, except on Mountebank which you may note I replaced. It's possible when it doesn't happen every time, e.g. on Jester and Noble Brigand, though I'm not thrilled with it on Jester and I also replaced Noble Brigand.

There are too many Coppers, and the pile doesn't scale with the number of players.
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Imrahil3

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5456 on: January 09, 2023, 11:02:43 pm »
+2

To be both a devil’s advocate and a glutton for punishment, the Copper pile might not scale in size for the number of players but it certainly scales with how quickly it burns out, right? In a 4-player game there are only 32 Coppers left; that’s basically the Curse pile. You’ll get a lot of Coppers quickly but it won’t last any longer than a Witch race. In a 2-player game there are 46 Coppers, but they’re coming in at 1/3rd the speed. If there’s good trashing you’ll have no trouble sweeping them out, and if there’s bad/no trashing then there’s no way either of you can Attack often enough to hand out all of them anyways.

I know such things are never that simple, but the math looks a lot better than I would’ve expected.

But baseless hypothesizing aside, thank you for not giving us the bad cards we think we want.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2023, 11:06:04 pm by Imrahil3 »
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MrHepp

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5457 on: January 10, 2023, 05:26:11 am »
0

Was it intentional for recent expansions/2E's to have multiple Cursing attacks in them? Or is it just a side effect of Witches being "easier" to design (compared to Militias/Knights/Spies/etc.)?
It's something I've decided to embrace, due to all the ways Witches are the best attacks. They're simpler, they work, they're the most fun. As you know, Militias are less fun and harder to vary the attack on; Knights are hated/loved; Spies are awful; and none-of-the-above Duration attacks are just hard to come by.

Could copper attacks be an alternative, that is cards that deal out coppers instead of curses?

He's talked about this before; it's bad because Coppers aren't limited in supply like Curses and Ruins are. A deck with 5-10 curses sucks, sure, but a deck with 40 coppers? You just don't get any interesting decisions the rest of the game.
Correct; I have tried "Each other player gains a Copper" a number of times, including in Plunder, and it has yet to survive, except on Mountebank which you may note I replaced. It's possible when it doesn't happen every time, e.g. on Jester and Noble Brigand, though I'm not thrilled with it on Jester and I also replaced Noble Brigand.

There are too many Coppers, and the pile doesn't scale with the number of players.

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks to you an the other replies for explaining that.

I suppose that there are reasons for not limiting the Copper pile to 10 per player as a setup instruction for such cards.
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5458 on: January 10, 2023, 02:09:30 pm »
+1

But baseless hypothesizing aside, thank you for not giving us the bad cards we think we want.
I'm there for you!

I have given "Copper attack" a lot of chances. It's so simple!

Charlatan tried to give out Coppers. I fixed it by giving out Curses and turning them into Coppers.
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5459 on: January 10, 2023, 02:12:57 pm »
0

I suppose that there are reasons for not limiting the Copper pile to 10 per player as a setup instruction for such cards.
You mean 10 per player after the first; 10 Curses with 2 players, not 20.

It's not completely off the table but has never sounded attractive.
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dz

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5460 on: January 11, 2023, 02:38:48 am »
0

Why does Search trash itself? The ability seems hard to abuse, when supply piles only empty a few times per game (and usually at the very end).
It's actually for power level reasons. Specific games where it seemed like, this is too generous.

Was this with the Lost City version of Search? I can see that being broken, but I don't see how the current terminal-silver version can be "too generous."

Nowadays, would you do Chameleon as a Trait? As a Way, it needs "follow this card's instructions," and I'm sure that rules thread is enough evidence about how the wording is a can of worms.

Since there were concerns about First Mate tracking, were there also concerns about Siren and the stop moving rule? I'm sure casual players will never even think about Siren tricks, but "what cards let you dodge Siren and why" has come up a lot on the internet.

I'm sure you've seen me hate on Dark Ages all the time in discord/spec chat/this thread, so uh what are your thoughts on it today?

Would you say that some cards are more designed for irl-bring-a-few-expansions-to-game-night instead of online-ladder-full-random? For example, I can see Elder being more interesting in heavy-Allies games, but I haven't really been excited by it when playing online.

You've said on discord that you "blew it" on Lackeys's cost (specifically: "No amount of having blown it on Lackeys makes it good to blow it on Sea Chart, that's how I see it"). Can you elaborate on that?
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5461 on: January 11, 2023, 03:01:54 pm »
+4

Was this with the Lost City version of Search? I can see that being broken, but I don't see how the current terminal-silver version can be "too generous."
Yes it was that version. I kept it trashing when I switched it to +$2.

We can even say, with the published version, you don't always want them back once they cash in.

Nowadays, would you do Chameleon as a Trait? As a Way, it needs "follow this card's instructions," and I'm sure that rules thread is enough evidence about how the wording is a can of worms.
If it's the current thread, that one's attacking Harbor Village and Moat, not so much "follow this card's instructions." Which is you know not a phrase I'm delighted to be using, but I think it's doing the trick?

Chameleon as a Trait seems a lot less interesting; it would often show up on something it had no effect on.

As I've mentioned, if I were making the main set today, well in addition to Reactions being like Sheepdog not Moat, I would also put "Attack" in the middle of text, so that you e.g. Moated Minion after they picked to attack with it. I mean I would try that at least and see if it worked out; I don't need to commit-without-testing in this fantasy. Anyway. That's the fix for Moat. Harbor Village, there were several things I could have done, including making some other card. I wasn't thrilled with "play an action, then see if your amount of $ went up," which would have been clear enough for rules-pokers (I think?).

Ways added a lot of fun gameplay; today I am not possibly deciding "why did I do those."

Since there were concerns about First Mate tracking, were there also concerns about Siren and the stop moving rule? I'm sure casual players will never even think about Siren tricks, but "what cards let you dodge Siren and why" has come up a lot on the internet.
There were concerns about, making it work, and making it clear how it worked.

At some point, when I've got a cool card on my hands and you can say, "but these interactions require you to know the stop moving rule," I throw my hands in the air and say, "15th expansion!" It's the 15th expansion. The cards have to keep doing new things. This is what happens.

Maybe there is a phrasing that better does the concept, with less rules knowledge invoked. When you look for it, make sure to avoid "would," and try to keep the text fitting on the card in that font size.

I'm sure you've seen me hate on Dark Ages all the time in discord/spec chat/this thread, so uh what are your thoughts on it today?
From 2007 through the break after Guilds, Dark Ages was my favorite expansion. It has lots of card interactions, that's the draw.

The sets ramped up in polish as of Adventures, and there are a bunch of those sets at this point. Then I made 2E's for the main set and four earlier expansions. So at this point Dark Ages stands out for not having gotten that treatment. It has a few problematically powerful/monolithic cards, and a bunch of duds.

We might disagree on specifics though.

Would you say that some cards are more designed for irl-bring-a-few-expansions-to-game-night instead of online-ladder-full-random? For example, I can see Elder being more interesting in heavy-Allies games, but I haven't really been excited by it when playing online.
Well zero cards are designed for online. These days I do worry a little about online, because of e.g. Changeling. Which I mean, made it out with no regard for online whatsoever; online would deal with it somehow. But you know, I might think, will this card make you click pointlessly a bunch, can I fix that without really sacrificing anything.

You've said on discord that you "blew it" on Lackeys's cost (specifically: "No amount of having blown it on Lackeys makes it good to blow it on Sea Chart, that's how I see it"). Can you elaborate on that?
In context I was just fighting a classic poor line of reasoning. Sea Chart was being complained about, and compared to Lackeys. But, as a wise man once said, "No amount of having blown it on Lackeys makes it good to blow it on Sea Chart, that's how I see it." Comparing something to an overpowered card doesn't tell you how balanced it is. I mean unless it's even more powerful. It's great to be weaker than Lackeys; that's the goal in fact.

I don't think I have any deep insights into Lackeys. Villagers were stronger than they looked. Coffers were too but we caught that. I mean maybe I blew it there somewhere but we did know that Coffers were stronger than they looked. But you know. I haven't done the post-release work on Lackeys to know what it would look like with more time spent on the set. I don't know that charging more is the fix. For casual players it seems fine; experts empty them and I mean it sure looks like I could have done better.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5462 on: January 12, 2023, 03:30:26 pm »
+1

Maybe there is a phrasing that better does the concept, with less rules knowledge invoked. When you look for it, make sure to avoid "would," and try to keep the text fitting on the card in that font size.

I often can't help but think Magic terms when reading Dominion cards. Did you ever consider "as an additional cost, trash an Action from your hand"? Or is the issue just that it's far too strong with gainers? I mean technically you can rules-write your way out of that too, just by saying that either additional costs must be paid in order to gain a card, or that additional costs are considered part of a card's cost (and thus pretty much only Lurker can gain it).

Also inspired by Magic... with the unpopularity of Possession, have you ever tried other versions of "Control an opponent during their turn" effect? Magic had just 1 for a long time, and now it's not that uncommon. And the effect is far more powerful / game-wrecking in Magic than it is in Dominion.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2023, 03:32:29 pm by GendoIkari »
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5463 on: January 12, 2023, 04:35:51 pm »
+3

Maybe there is a phrasing that better does the concept, with less rules knowledge invoked. When you look for it, make sure to avoid "would," and try to keep the text fitting on the card in that font size.

I often can't help but think Magic terms when reading Dominion cards. Did you ever consider "as an additional cost, trash an Action from your hand"? Or is the issue just that it's far too strong with gainers? I mean technically you can rules-write your way out of that too, just by saying that either additional costs must be paid in order to gain a card, or that additional costs are considered part of a card's cost (and thus pretty much only Lurker can gain it).
I don't know if I considered that; I'm sure plenty familiar with it. I wouldn't possibly have said "additional costs must be paid to gain cards" or what have you; when you gain a card directly, you aren't paying the cost, and man let's not confuse those things.

The best way to do an additional cost is to make a symbol for it and put it right in the cost, like Potion. I've considered that family of mechanics, for different costs. Then of course you couldn't Workshop it. So far I haven't felt like I was getting enough there, relative to how confusing symbols in the cost have turned out to be.

I could have just added "first" to get rid of a bunch of the combos and thus confusion associated with them. Somehow I didn't.

Also inspired by Magic... with the unpopularity of Possession, have you ever tried other versions of "Control an opponent during their turn" effect? Magic had just 1 for a long time, and now it's not that uncommon. And the effect is far more powerful / game-wrecking in Magic than it is in Dominion.
I have tried other versions of Possession. Who knows, maybe I could make a fixed version. Is what I thought. I have not made a fixed version.
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Wizard_Amul

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5464 on: January 12, 2023, 05:51:50 pm »
0


I could have just added "first" to get rid of a bunch of the combos and thus confusion associated with them. Somehow I didn't.

I feel like that would have been clearer for Siren. Oh well, it's more confusing now but probably also more fun now since trying to figure out how to get around the restriction can be fun for some people.

I have tried other versions of Possession. Who knows, maybe I could make a fixed version. Is what I thought. I have not made a fixed version.

I don't think it's really necessary at this point with all the different ways of getting extra turns, but I feel like one potential "fixed" version (depending on what you think needs to be fixed) would be to add the Outpost restrictions of first time playing it this turn and if the previous turn wasn't yours--good luck getting that to fit on the card, though.
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trivialknot

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5465 on: January 19, 2023, 04:39:32 am »
0

You’re working on non-Dominion projects now, right?

Would you rather expand upon Kingdom Builder, Winter Kingdom, neither, or both?

Have you ever been interested in developing cooperative board games?
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5466 on: January 19, 2023, 01:18:37 pm »
0

You’re working on non-Dominion projects now, right?
Yes.

Would you rather expand upon Kingdom Builder, Winter Kingdom, neither, or both?
I'd rather make another related game than add more to those.

Have you ever been interested in developing cooperative board games?
I've made a few; I've got two we play some now.
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segura

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5467 on: January 26, 2023, 08:53:30 am »
0

Did you ever consider or test Buy tokens?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5468 on: January 26, 2023, 10:45:17 am »
+3

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Águia Branca

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5469 on: January 26, 2023, 02:49:56 pm »
+1

Since the last few expansions didn't contain much in the way of alt-VP and you took out Silk Road from Hinterlands without replacing it: Is there something you came to dislike about the color green? Is the design space too limited? Do you think green cards are boring? Are you withholding them for a future expansion?
« Last Edit: January 26, 2023, 02:53:03 pm by Águia Branca »
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5470 on: January 27, 2023, 06:56:22 am »
+1

Green cards are quite hard to make interesting.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=8559.0
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5471 on: January 27, 2023, 01:29:10 pm »
+2

Since the last few expansions didn't contain much in the way of alt-VP and you took out Silk Road from Hinterlands without replacing it: Is there something you came to dislike about the color green? Is the design space too limited? Do you think green cards are boring? Are you withholding them for a future expansion?
I have nothing against VP cards, and I haven't been saving them up; in fact Allies started out pursuing a Victory cards sub-theme (and you can read about a few in the Secret History). The cards just didn't work out. As noted in the link, it's hard to make a good new one that isn't just "N VP, also does something else."

Hinterlands 2E might have replaced Silk Road with a new VP card, but the update pack was a limiting factor there, since VP cards require 2 extra cards.
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Robledo

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5472 on: February 05, 2023, 08:53:46 pm »
0

Hi Donald,

Of course I have played Dominion and it's expansions a thousand times and enjoyed it a lot. But as much as playing I love reading and re-reading the secret stories about the development of the cards and expansions and outtakes. I also find very aesthetically beautiful the way cards combine in expansions (I'll write some note on it any time soon).

These days I was staring at the Allies expansion and something got me curious...

The Empire's Landscapes they are like endgame modifiers... You have the normal game and bam... a Landscape "alters" they way scores are tallied at the end.

The Allies' Allies were they at one point intended to be something like "start game" modifiers?

I'll try to give an example... Band of Nomads... if you take out the favor part... it could be something like a new rule. "At this game, when you gain a 3 cost card you may choose: +1 card, +1 action or +1 buy"

The same can be made by other Allies: Gang of Pickpockets. "At this game you always discard a card at the start of your turn"

I know, not all Allies can serve this purpose: Eg. Island Folk, Desert Guides...

Thanks for offering all the support for your game, improving it, answering doubts and curiosities and explaining the intricacies of game design aspects (which I enjoy as much as play).
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5473 on: February 06, 2023, 01:16:46 pm »
+4

The Empire's Landscapes they are like endgame modifiers... You have the normal game and bam... a Landscape "alters" they way scores are tallied at the end.

The Allies' Allies were they at one point intended to be something like "start game" modifiers?
No; the entire idea to Allies was to have lots of different kinds of tokens, where the Ally tells you what the tokens do this game.
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dz

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5474 on: February 09, 2023, 10:27:06 am »
0

What are your thoughts on Ruins? My hot take is that it's the least successful mechanic in Dominion history. Even for other mechanics that could be considered a "failed experiment" (artifacts, hexes, overpay etc.), there's at least 1-2 cards that I like; I can't say the same thing for Ruins. Also yikes, it eats up 50 cards in an expansion.

What are your thoughts on Silver Mine? It's been mocked a lot as a bad Sculptor.

Now that some time has passed, what are your thoughts on the Loot pile in general? I think at this point, it's the least liked mechanic in Plunder?

Innovation has some tricky rules around it, and yet there have been a lot of those effects recently (especially in 2022). Is this a mix of "we're already a bunch of expansions in" and "it's fun and popular"?

What other wordings of Reckless were tried? I'd be most curious about finding a Flagship-like wording (with some parenthetical that stops infinite loops).

You've said that Rich is your least favorite thing in Plunder. When you were making the set, did you worry that the gameplay may resemble what you dislike about Lucky Coin?

In your opinion, what expansion is the closest to "perfect"? (if this question is too hard to answer, just say Prosperity 2E)
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