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Author Topic: Interview with Donald X.  (Read 2127842 times)

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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1925 on: March 07, 2015, 02:50:53 pm »
+2

From what I've been hearing from you, jsh, a lot of the cards that I liked at the meetup were taken out. I don't know, I'm not sure I'm even excited for this expansion anymore :P
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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1926 on: March 07, 2015, 03:37:51 pm »
0

Well, one thing to keep in mind (and I'm not entirely sure how strict this is, so I could be speaking out of turn) is that it's important to keep the set at 500 cards or less. If a cool card had to be replaced, sometimes the reason is that other cool ideas came up and those less cool ones had to be set aside.  There are other good reasons to cut cards, too. Many of the cards shown at the Chicago meetup were eliminated after further testing for one reason or another, and some evolved in to different versions of their original concepts.
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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1927 on: March 07, 2015, 04:14:23 pm »
+1

Are the translated versions of the expansion planned to release at the same time as the English one?
It will depend on when the foreign partner opts in. At least a few other versions will come out at the same time. I am going to guess, German and Dutch, for starters. Japan seems likely though I haven't heard about it specifically.
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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1928 on: March 07, 2015, 04:21:38 pm »
+5

NOOOOO that was one of my favorite cards from the meetup! I'm shocked it was found to be weak; I thought it was very strong. Well as long as all that other cards I liked are still in it... ;)

EDIT: I can't actually think of any cards I didn't like at the meetup, so never mind, I'm sure whatever cards he did keep are great.
I didn't think it was too weak. It may even have been strong. The issue was just that it wasn't popular. We rarely bought it.

As usual it's never "that card or nothing," it's always "that card or something else." It sounded better to have something else. I don't know what specifically replaced it but I don't see what I'd take out for it so there you go. The "discard then draw to X" thing still sounds good; I was not expecting to take it out and then it was that card we weren't playing with.

Probably the most memorable outtake that was at Chicago was the victory card that rewarded you for having a small deck (13 VP minus 1 VP per 2 cards). It seemed like I could balance it at a Counting House level of playability for either 2 player games or 4 player games, but not both at once (yes without really awkward awful caring about the number of players).
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liopoil

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1929 on: March 07, 2015, 04:31:02 pm »
0

NOOOOO that was one of my favorite cards from the meetup! I'm shocked it was found to be weak; I thought it was very strong. Well as long as all that other cards I liked are still in it... ;)

EDIT: I can't actually think of any cards I didn't like at the meetup, so never mind, I'm sure whatever cards he did keep are great.
I didn't think it was too weak. It may even have been strong. The issue was just that it wasn't popular. We rarely bought it.

As usual it's never "that card or nothing," it's always "that card or something else." It sounded better to have something else. I don't know what specifically replaced it but I don't see what I'd take out for it so there you go. The "discard then draw to X" thing still sounds good; I was not expecting to take it out and then it was that card we weren't playing with.

Probably the most memorable outtake that was at Chicago was the victory card that rewarded you for having a small deck (13 VP minus 1 VP per 2 cards). It seemed like I could balance it at a Counting House level of playability for either 2 player games or 4 player games, but not both at once (yes without really awkward awful caring about the number of players).
I totally forgot about that card. That one I actually didn't like at all. I guess I only remember cards I like...

It's true that discard then draw to X has no connection to the adventures themes, whatever they are. I wonder why it wasn't popular though. True, no new mechanic, but I sure would enjoy discarding 4 coppers with it after playing a village.
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1930 on: March 07, 2015, 04:40:12 pm »
+7

I did suggest two Reserve cards early on because I obviously wasn't going to use them for Enterprise. Donald did take the time to critique them, which I appreciate. They did not end up being tested an any form. I took the Reserve part completely out of one of them and it became Auction. I may fix up the other one someday, we'll see.

I appreciate that Donald is receptive to suggestions for card changes and sometimes for loose card concepts. I really don't see myself suggesting more specific cards just because the reception tends to be very cool. Donald really wants to be the guy that came up with these cards, and that is 100% his prerogative, and I have tried to respect that.
I would like to be that great guy, sharing his thing. At the same time I got Dominion, it's mine, I get to make it. That's pretty hard to let go of. It's a bummer when people are all "why aren't you a good enough person to publish fan cards." I guess I'm just not that good of a person, that's all I've got for that. Why not talk about my good points, they make for better conversation. If you ask me.

I have checked, the one Reserve idea never got tried because I thought it was redundant with the rest of the set. The set could have changed so that it wasn't but that didn't happen. I also didn't try a related concept that I thought of. I mean, my idea wasn't worth trying either, that is what I am saying there (not, look at my similar idea). The other thing required an extra pile so if it could have been made to work it was going to be hard to commit to.
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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1931 on: March 07, 2015, 06:24:58 pm »
+4

I have checked, the one Reserve idea never got tried because I thought it was redundant with the rest of the set. The set could have changed so that it wasn't but that didn't happen. I also didn't try a related concept that I thought of. I mean, my idea wasn't worth trying either, that is what I am saying there (not, look at my similar idea). The other thing required an extra pile so if it could have been made to work it was going to be hard to commit to.

Ah, sorry. I was not trying to say, "Man, why didn't you use these ideas, grumble grumble." I can see where it could have come across that way. I was simply giving an account. Ideas are cheap and those two were just ideas, not even tested cards. I only suggested them in case they piqued your interest and I don't regret that they didn't get tested.

Why not talk about my good points, they make for better conversation. If you ask me.

I think it's fantastic that you're so involved with the community. Also, you've made a bunch of cool games.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 06:43:07 pm by LastFootnote »
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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1932 on: March 07, 2015, 06:29:15 pm »
+1

Why not talk about my good points, they make for better conversation. If you ask me.

I think it's fantastic that you're so involved with the community. Also, you've made a bunch of cool games.

You also have a very cool grey-green shirt.
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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1933 on: March 07, 2015, 07:01:25 pm »
+4

Ah, sorry. I was not trying to say, "Man, why didn't you use these ideas, grumble grumble." I can see where it could have come across that way. I was simply giving an account. Ideas are cheap and those two were just ideas, not even tested cards. I only suggested them in case they piqued your interest and I don't regret that they didn't get tested.
I was just trying to clarify that it wasn't that I coolly received your ideas because I am so into my own ideas at the expense of all others or some such. I coolly received your ideas because I am harshly critical of all things, my own stuff especially. Your ideas at least had the benefit of knowing that one person liked them, and yet still I was harshly critical.

I think it's fantastic that you're so involved with the community. Also, you've made a bunch of cool games.
Thanks, you're there for me.

That part of that post was of course me grumbling about werothegreat bringing this up.
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1934 on: March 07, 2015, 07:07:54 pm »
+9

You also have a very cool grey-green shirt.
I'm just glad I'm not wearing it now, or I'd be scared.
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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1935 on: March 07, 2015, 11:06:43 pm »
+2

How do you personally determine whether or not to use Colonies and Shelters in a game? Do you use the recommended random selection out of the cards picked, or some other method like a decision from the players?
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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1936 on: March 08, 2015, 05:01:30 am »
+3

How do you personally determine whether or not to use Colonies and Shelters in a game? Do you use the recommended random selection out of the cards picked, or some other method like a decision from the players?
I usually just have two expansions to play with me - what I'm testing, and one other one. When one of those sets is Prosperity / Dark Ages, I use Platinum/Colony / Shelters, unless I have a specific reason to want to see certain cards without them for a game.
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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1937 on: March 08, 2015, 06:32:07 am »
+6

A couple more questions about how you playtest:

Are there certain cards every new card gets tested with? Like Throne Room, Bridge, or cards it's particularly similar to? Do you make a point of getting every published card in a game with each new card? Or is random playtesting sufficient?

How do you decide when a card is sufficiently playtested? Does it have to survive a certain amount of games/time without being tweaked? Or do you just judge when it's hit the right balance of power, interesting-ness, and originality?

These questions must not always be interesting to answer, but I find all the behind-the-stuff fascinating. Thanks!
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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1938 on: March 08, 2015, 06:43:00 am »
+2

What do you think arbout asymmetrical games? You know, where player abilities or something like that put players at different levels of what they can achieve how from the start.
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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1939 on: March 08, 2015, 01:32:19 pm »
0

I was wondering why Rats is your favorite card. It's one of my favorites to play with, but I guess I was wondering if there's any reason in particular that Rats stands out to you.

I also find it interesting that of all the published cards, Rats seems to rely the most heavily on needing another specific card type (a trasher) to be in the kingdom in order for it to be worth buying. (although, this being the dominion strategy forum, I'm sure you guys will find some edge cases!) Sure, without a source of +buy Highway is basically an overpriced Peddler, but theres still some situations where one would help you, whereas without a way to trash your Rats, buying them will usually hurt your deck.

That being said, what is your favorite Rats "enabler?" Are there any trashers that you especially like to combo with Rats?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 05:47:16 pm by Captain Stupendous »
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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1940 on: March 08, 2015, 03:34:52 pm »
0

I also find it interesting that of all the published cards, Rats seems to rely the most heavily on needing another specific card type (a trasher) to be in the kingdom in order for it to be worth buying. Sure, without a source of +buy Highway is basically an overpriced Peddler, but theres still some situations where one would help you, whereas without a way to trash your Rats, buying them will usually hurt your deck.

I one time got Rats without a trasher and won...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1941 on: March 08, 2015, 04:24:02 pm »
0

I also find it interesting that of all the published cards, Rats seems to rely the most heavily on needing another specific card type (a trasher) to be in the kingdom in order for it to be worth buying. Sure, without a source of +buy Highway is basically an overpriced Peddler, but theres still some situations where one would help you, whereas without a way to trash your Rats, buying them will usually hurt your deck.

I one time got Rats without a trasher and won...

Was it a game with cursers? Getting a single Rats early can effectively turn most of those Curses into confusions.
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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1942 on: March 08, 2015, 06:42:24 pm »
+1

I also find it interesting that of all the published cards, Rats seems to rely the most heavily on needing another specific card type (a trasher) to be in the kingdom in order for it to be worth buying. Sure, without a source of +buy Highway is basically an overpriced Peddler, but theres still some situations where one would help you, whereas without a way to trash your Rats, buying them will usually hurt your deck.

I one time got Rats without a trasher and won...

Was it a game with cursers? Getting a single Rats early can effectively turn most of those Curses into confusions.

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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1943 on: March 08, 2015, 07:06:51 pm »
+1

I would have guessed that he got the Rats to Ambassador it over to Lord Bottington.
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1944 on: March 08, 2015, 07:58:41 pm »
+4

Are there certain cards every new card gets tested with? Like Throne Room, Bridge, or cards it's particularly similar to? Do you make a point of getting every published card in a game with each new card? Or is random playtesting sufficient?

How do you decide when a card is sufficiently playtested? Does it have to survive a certain amount of games/time without being tweaked? Or do you just judge when it's hit the right balance of power, interesting-ness, and originality?
I don't focus on "every card" in any sense. A set gets played with each existing set and also in mixes. New cards get specifically played as I make them; then they're just in the mix and will come up sometimes. IRL I play through the set so everything from the new set does get in a game most nights. Cards that seem like they need extra testing get more testing. If some combo seems potentially like an issue, e.g. Throne Room plus whatever, I might specifically test that some; but I don't just test Throne Room with everything or anything like that.

A big classic specific testing thing is just, some players must buy the card, others can't. Typically, the ones that can't get a substitute, e.g. we're testing a Remodel and the ones who can't buy it get Remodel itself instead. That's just to reduce the chance that the new card seems strong because this is just a good board for its kind of thing. Those games are a lot less fun than regular playtesting though, for me anyway. I don't enjoy feeling pressure to prove that a card is beatable when obv. it may win due to factors other than how strong it is.

At some point the set feels done. The list of cards that maybe won't work out has shrunk down to some things that maybe still seem worth paying attention to but have consistently failed to produce problems. You can always keep making the set better but want to release the expansion eventually.
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1945 on: March 08, 2015, 08:03:07 pm »
+2

What do you think arbout asymmetrical games? You know, where player abilities or something like that put players at different levels of what they can achieve how from the start.
I like the premise fine. I've done cosmic power things but typically you draft them at the start. It feels less asymmetrical as a result but really we still each have different options. I mean what, drawing a hand from a random deck at the start gives us each different options and is not really so symmetrical; Temporum and Nefarious give you random starting cards, Greed and Infiltration give you a draft (if you use that variant in Infiltration and now that it's out of print that's the deal, there's always a draft okay). And our openings are different in Kingdom Builder due to our draws. Of my published games it's really just Dominion and Gauntlet of Fools that are symmetrical, and what, Dominion may give me a 5/2 while you get 4/3, and later expansions make even 3/4 vs. 4/3 meaningful sometimes.
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1946 on: March 08, 2015, 08:11:15 pm »
+6

I was wondering why Rats is your favorite card. It's one of my favorites to play with, but I guess I was wondering if there's any reason in particular that Rats stands out to you.

I also find it interesting that of all the published cards, Rats seems to rely the most heavily on needing another specific card type (a trasher) to be in the kingdom in order for it to be worth buying. (although, this being the dominion strategy forum, I'm sure you guys will find some edge cases!) Sure, without a source of +buy Highway is basically an overpriced Peddler, but theres still some situations where one would help you, whereas without a way to trash your Rats, buying them will usually hurt your deck.

That being said, what is your favorite Rats "enabler?" Are there any trashers that you especially like to combo with Rats?
I am all about combos. Rats is a combo card and I like that part. I also really like that you make things bad for yourself and yet this will turn out well.

Rats is narrow, but there are other narrow cards. Poor House also wants a trasher, but also a village to go with it that Rats doesn't need. Counting House needs, you know, something.

I especially like Fortress with Rats, I think just because it doesn't get rid of the Rats. If you have say Upgrade / Rats, that's good times, but the Rats are just so not a problem there; if anything you are trying not to run out of Rats too fast. Fortress / Rats, man, you might be in trouble. What are you even thinking there. But it comes up, there will be Vineyard or Knights or Scrying Pool or something and you will think, Fortress / Rats, maybe I can pull that off. And just live with the Rats.
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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1947 on: March 09, 2015, 01:05:00 am »
0

How do you like Market Square/Rats?
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1948 on: March 09, 2015, 01:14:03 am »
0

How do you feel about all the card types and categories players have come up with (cantrip, terminal Silver, disappearing money, etc)?  Do you use them yourself when talking about cards or coming up with them?  Or how about names for strategies (duchy dancing, PPR, etc)?
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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #1949 on: March 09, 2015, 01:28:01 am »
+3

How do you like Market Square/Rats?
I don't want to veer into the space of just giving strategy advice. Market Square and Rats, they interact, see what they can do for you.
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