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Author Topic: Definitely a Menagerie... Please Critique!  (Read 1794 times)

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kipkoan

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Definitely a Menagerie... Please Critique!
« on: December 03, 2012, 11:55:47 pm »
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Summary:  I got lucky, but need your feedback to improve and help know what I could have done better (or why what I did was good).  Game:  http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/03/game-20121203-204211-ae4d6035.html

I actually wanted to post this in the "Help" forum, but I didn't because I actually won.  I had no idea what I was doing... I just got lucky picking some cards that work well together I think.  I would appreciate any feedback, though... I'm very new to the game, and am eager to improve.

In the end, I think the Menageries & Crossroads were the key cards.  I'm not sure if I should have gotten something else besides the Jack.  Maybe a Bridge?  Was the Fortune Teller a waste?  Maybe I should have gotten it earlier if at all?  The Moneylender let me trash most of my coppers, then I Expanded it (even though I still had 1 Copper left... maybe too early)?

I'm sure a did a lot wrong, so please let me know.  Thanks!
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eHalcyon

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Re: Definitely a Menagerie... Please Critique!
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2012, 12:21:22 am »
+1

Fortune Teller isn't so strong.  I think Jack is the best opening here, and I would probably pick up Moneylender soon after that.

Other than that, I'm not too sure.  Maybe take Harem over Gold and pick up a Crossroads at some point... maybe with Expand, or with Bridge.  But straight Jack+Money Lender should be pretty good.  A deck full of Silver and Gold/Harem is pretty slick.
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dondon151

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Re: Definitely a Menagerie... Please Critique!
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2012, 10:35:14 am »
+2

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/04/game-20121204-071231-d11a4e2f.html

This is about the best that I can do with an engine. Maybe Jack prioritizing Harem at $6 and grabbing a few Crossroads is strong. Fortune Teller is really weak for fast games, so that could have been a Menagerie in your game instead.
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kipkoan

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Re: Definitely a Menagerie... Please Critique!
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2012, 03:40:04 pm »
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Thanks, eHalcyon... and extra thanks to dondon151 for playing through solitaire to pick out better strategies.

I've had mixed results with Jack... I haven't figured out when is best to use it, and when I should avoid it.  I'm thinking it's not so great if there is a good engine on the board, but it's pretty good otherwise?   :-\
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DG

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Re: Definitely a Menagerie... Please Critique!
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2012, 04:39:12 pm »
+1

As a critique, I'd say you did fairly well to get that working with few neat tricks along the way. It's a style of deck construction that will come strong eventually but can unfortunately come a couple of turns too late. You need decent draws to get a decent score by turn 14/15.

So what can go wrong here? Well you're trying to get three terminals, moneylender, expand, and jack, played as often as you can to transform your deck. This requires the crossroads for extra actions to be drawn at the right times, but if you add extra crossroads then they could eat into your actions instead. This is at the root of the potential bad draws. You've got three potentially useful actions for cycling the deck and drawing cards; crossroads, menagerie, wishing well, and these can reduce the bad draws. Their usefulness changes however as your deck changes each turn so it can be easy for the deck to drift out of balance (too much copper, no green cards, too much silver). You can't do much about the lack of a useful 5 cost card in the kingdom but it does hamper your deck as well.

For the game as played I'd take another menagerie instead of the fortune teller and a harem instead of some of the golds. The deck needs faster cycling and bigger hands.
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verikt

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Re: Definitely a Menagerie... Please Critique!
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2012, 06:48:37 pm »
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I think the jack was a mistake. Moneylender crossroads was a good opening, because it reduces copper and lets your crossroads hit estate. You DON'T  want to trash the estates, that's your draw card. With a small deck, I'd have bought wishing well instead of menage turn 3. Early on, copper is pretty likely, midgame estate is pretty likely and endgame wtf. You generally have a surplus of actions so buy 2 crossroads, two bridges and go for harems. You should have totally ignored silver in my opinion. And you got lucky with menage but I don't think it was a good turn 3 buy, when you were still fairly likely to draw either two copper or two estates.
Compare that game with this, when I had only loan for trashing copper instead of moneylender
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201212/03/game-20121203-142815-de5ec221.html
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eHalcyon

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Re: Definitely a Menagerie... Please Critique!
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2012, 06:54:11 pm »
+1

Crossroads isn't so great for primary draw.  If those Estates were trashed, you would have the cards that you would have drawn in your hand already.
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verikt

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Re: Definitely a Menagerie... Please Critique!
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2012, 07:11:18 pm »
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Nothing here is great for primary draw.But if you want crossroads for the actions and are planning on supplementing with harem estates in the deck are better than spamming yourself with silver imo.
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