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[Voltaire]

More eloquently put, courtesy of a reddit user:

I am utterly appalled that anyone would want to give up and change things now after we've already made it so far. The uncontrollable chaos is the point of this run. If we're just going to sit here and slowly tally up votes so that every step is carefully planned, we might as well be watching a goddamn Let's Play.
We haven't even been on this maze as long as we spent on the ledge. Be fucking patient, as long as there's no failure state we can eventually make it through sheer brute force. There's no time limit, so relax and quit whining.
Come on folks, do you really want to surrender now? That's what Dome wants!

[KingZog3]

More eloquently put, courtesy of a reddit user:

I am utterly appalled that anyone would want to give up and change things now after we've already made it so far. The uncontrollable chaos is the point of this run. If we're just going to sit here and slowly tally up votes so that every step is carefully planned, we might as well be watching a goddamn Let's Play.
We haven't even been on this maze as long as we spent on the ledge. Be fucking patient, as long as there's no failure state we can eventually make it through sheer brute force. There's no time limit, so relax and quit whining.
Come on folks, do you really want to surrender now? That's what Dome wants!

Well if it's so bad it'll be taken away. I think it is interesting though how it really doesn't seem to matter. Votes or not, they haven't made any progress over 9 hours.

[Voltaire]

Well if it's so bad it'll be taken away.

No guarantee there, at all. They switched back to Anarchy for I think ten minutes recently but people keep voting Democracy.

[Kirian]

So here's something interesting. I played a game earlier today. Don't remember the name. The basic idea is that there's some cards, each with 8 objects on, and for each possible pair of cards, exactly one object is on both cards, which players are trying to find.

Here are the numbers the rulebook gives: 55 cards, 8 objects on each card, 50 objects total. So naturally, as a mathematician, I decided to try and calculate an upper bound on the possible number of cards (and from there intended to see if I could narrow it down to an actual maximum. And I got 43 as an upper bound, which... well, obviously slightly worried me.

My method was this: One card has eight objects. That means, for any possible pair of two objects on that card, that pair can't appear on another card (or it'd have two objects in common with the first card). As there are eight objects, that means there are (8C2) = 28 different pairs of objects covered, none of which are shared with another card. There are 50 objects total. That means there are (50C2) = 1225 total pairs of objects. So now as every card has 28 unique pairs, we can obtain an upper bound by taking (total no. of object pairs) / (pairs on each card) = 1225/28 = 43.75, and since that's an upper bound we can take the integer part of 43.

So... where did my reasoning go wrong? Or is it solid, and the information the game gave perhaps wrong? By my calculation, with at least 55 objects this method gives an upper bound of 55, so it's possible the game's statement of '50 objects' really meant 'over 50'.

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Feliacalderan.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F11%2F12%2Fdobble-visto-da-un-matematico%2F

Google translate isn't perfect, of course.  It appears there must be 57 symbols.

[Voltaire]

Also this

The stream may be incapable of beating the game, that's part of the fun.
The point wasn't to figure out how to successfully navigate the game, It was to hook the game up to a stream and see what happens. If the end result is 15 days in the arrow maze, so fucking be it, that's the way it went.
Changing the system to be more stable, predictable and controlled defeats the entire novel idea.
Obviously single player is the best way, and pure anarchy is the worst way to progress.
But that's why it's so mind-boggling to make progress, because you made progress despite it being the worst fucking way possible to make progress.
Too many controls in place and it becomes a boring collective let's play, the game gets beat and everyone talks about how amazing it was BEFORE they rigged it for success.
A vote for democracy is a vote to end the original experiment and admit defeat.
I'd rather this stream die in the arrow maze a month from now than to progress through the rest of the game successfully with a different system in place.

[Watno]

Thye actually made it through the maze, but at least it's back to anarchy mode now.

[sudgy]

They got a good idea!  Boycott democracy mode!

[Watno]

start9

[nkirbit]

For some reason, the Twitchplayspokemon stream now  has users vote on the next step instead of executing all commands. Not nearly as cool

Yeah, this has almost certainly killed my interest in it. Worst thing to wake up to.

I don't think they would have gotten through silph co though. There's just too many dead ends in those pusher mazes. Even with the voting they haven't progressed at all since last night. Like, at all.

Right, but it would have been interesting to see how it progresses. Do they eventually get lucky and make it through with 50k watching?  Does interest die down enough that less people can make it through?  How many people until its manageable?  But now we won't ever find out.

The vote is boring, and a cop out to maintain interest. The focus is on maintaining popularity, when its not as interesting as it could be.

[theory]

rrenaud hosted "RobCon" this past weekend.  It was a huge success and if any of you in your gaming group is a natural event planner, you should look into it.  Rent a house in a nice location for a weekend, have people bring games, play games nonstop for a few days, divide up the costs.  It's a ton of fun.

[shraeye]

whoa.  That sounds awesome.

[Twistedarcher]

Was democracy mode a choice made by the viewers or by the creator of the stream?

[Voltaire]

Was democracy mode a choice made by the viewers or by the creator of the stream?

The creator changed the system to democracy this morning (from a US timezone point of view). After awhile, he then changed it again to the "vote on anarchy/democracy" system. It seems clear people now want to do everything hard on "easy" (democracy) mode immediately. It's horrible.

[Twistedarcher]

Well, from the creator's point of view, I kind of get it. Yeah it's a cop out, but I'm sure, from his point of view, maintaining the maximum amount of viewers is of utmost importance. The inability to get past silph would create a large drop in viewers after a day or two.

I'm surprised it hasn't been changed over to sub mode only chat by this point, that's how he'll really rake in the money.

[Voltaire]

I'm surprised it hasn't been changed over to sub mode only chat by this point, that's how he'll really rake in the money.

Huh?

[eHalcyon]

For some reason, the Twitchplayspokemon stream now  has users vote on the next step instead of executing all commands. Not nearly as cool

Yeah, this has almost certainly killed my interest in it. Worst thing to wake up to.

I don't think they would have gotten through silph co though. There's just too many dead ends in those pusher mazes. Even with the voting they haven't progressed at all since last night. Like, at all.

They would have made it through eventually.  The ledges of route 9 are probably more difficult than Silph Co. 

The voting system doesn't help that much because there is still the delay to contend with, and there are also people protesting democracy by spamming start9.

I think the most intervention they need is to disable Start for certain sections (which had been done previously for a few sections of the game).  Maybe try Democracy if they can't get Surf after a week.

Well, from the creator's point of view, I kind of get it. Yeah it's a cop out, but I'm sure, from his point of view, maintaining the maximum amount of viewers is of utmost importance. The inability to get past silph would create a large drop in viewers after a day or two.

I'm surprised it hasn't been changed over to sub mode only chat by this point, that's how he'll really rake in the money.

I'm not convinced by that.  They were stuck on Route 9 for much longer and viewership only increased.

Switching to sub-only would probably drop interest and push people to switch to the free clones.

[Kirian]

rrenaud hosted "RobCon" this past weekend.  It was a huge success and if any of you in your gaming group is a natural event planner, you should look into it.  Rent a house in a nice location for a weekend, have people bring games, play games nonstop for a few days, divide up the costs.  It's a ton of fun.

How many people did you end up with?

[Twistedarcher]

I'm surprised it hasn't been changed over to sub mode only chat by this point, that's how he'll really rake in the money.

Huh?

I'm assuming its not already (I don't have an account so I haven't checked) but a lot of streams will make it so only subscribers can chat, with a subscription costing like $3-$7 dollars... This is used on a lot of the big league of legends streamers to reduce chat spam.

[Twistedarcher]

Well, from the creator's point of view, I kind of get it. Yeah it's a cop out, but I'm sure, from his point of view, maintaining the maximum amount of viewers is of utmost importance. The inability to get past silph would create a large drop in viewers after a day or two.

I'm surprised it hasn't been changed over to sub mode only chat by this point, that's how he'll really rake in the money.

I'm not convinced by that.  They were stuck on Route 9 for much longer and viewership only increased.

Switching to sub-only would probably drop interest and push people to switch to the free clones.

Well I feel like a lot of that was from new people discovering the stream -- at this point, it's been all over the major social media sites, so the amount of people discovering the stream for the first time is probably declining. I am sure the high viewership is coming almost as much from recycling viewers rather than maintaining the same ones -- and the same viewers would drop off after 48 hours in the same place, I think.

Yeah sub mode only would drive people away mostly, but it also allows people a chance to have a much higher impact. I could imagine many people preferring this mode with 5000 than 50000 viewers (or however many subscribe). And getting 10% to pay money may be better than having no one pay.

Ultimately it comes down to if the creator wants to just run this as an experiment or attempt to monetize it, which no one but him really knows. But the change to democracy mode indicates that maintaining viewership is maybe more important than keeping it as a pure experiment.

[Watno]

Subscribers

Subscribers do not get to bypass the slow mode restrictions on chat. The reason for this is because unlike most Twitch streams the chat is an critical component of the content. I think it's best if everyone has the same capacity of input.

I've previously considered enabling sub-only mode for short moments to overcome difficult sections but I've cooled off on that idea and doubt I will consider it again.

Please don't subscribe with the expectation of special treatment. Please subscribe with the expectation of supporting something you like.

I don't want to add emotes because that would give favoritism to particular memes, hindering the growth of new memes and causing stagnation.

[Voltaire]

They're ripping through everything on democracy mode now. The soul of the thing is dead, gone, trampled, eaten, spit out, pointless.

[Twistedarcher]

Yeah...what I said should be ignored...I had no idea it was up to 100k viewers, I thought it was still hovering at 50-60k.

[Thisisnotasmile]

Yeah...what I said should be ignored...I had no idea it was up to 100k viewers, I thought it was still hovering at 50-60k.

Today's article on the BBC website probably has something to do with that.

[theory]

rrenaud hosted "RobCon" this past weekend.  It was a huge success and if any of you in your gaming group is a natural event planner, you should look into it.  Rent a house in a nice location for a weekend, have people bring games, play games nonstop for a few days, divide up the costs.  It's a ton of fun.

How many people did you end up with?

20 or so

We also hired a chef.  Makes each meal cost ~$20pp but it meant amazing food and ability to satisfy everyone's food desires/restrictions, as opposed to pizza for every meal which is maybe $5pp.  Plus this chef happened to play Magic and participated in cube draft.

whoa.  That sounds awesome.

It was super awesome.  Played a whole bunch of long games you otherwise don't really get a chance to play.  Logistics suck a little bit but not enough to dissuade us from doing it again.

[eHalcyon]

They're ripping through everything on democracy mode now. The soul of the thing is dead, gone, trampled, eaten, spit out, pointless.

They seem firmly set in Anarchy for now.  The Google doc says that the current goal is to get to Giovanni in Rocket HQ and they are currently wandering the streets.  What did they rip through in Democracy mode?

I think the main problem now is that too many people are busy typing democracy/anarchy instead of spamming button inputs.  But it's hard to tell...